Further to what Gazza said, I didn't have the impression that Luiz was stuck in the front garden with a 'surplus to requirements' sign nestling in his perm. It was more a feeling that Chelsea would listen to big offers - and they probably already had intelligence of the interest of big clubs like PSG and Barcelona.
In other words, really nothing like the situation of selling unwanted squad players to smaller teams.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
In recent years players like Ozil, Luiz, Thiago Fabregas, Sanchez and Mata have all gone for big fees in spite of not being requires by their club.
------------------------------------------
As I said, there are exceptions, especially when the buying club is rich and desperate.
I don't think all of those players are good examples. For a start, none of them are quite what you'd call the deadwood, who have failed to make the grade and now need to sink down a level. They are all top international footballers who were bought by ambitious, rich clubs who saw the purchases as a stepping stone to the next level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the deadwood is the major point. He has done nothing for us to justify a big price tag.
But when much worse players are going for £10-£15m, you'd expect us to manage a decent fee, more than £8m anyway.
comment by Chronic - it's happened again. It's happened again. Last minute winner. It's happened again (U3423)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Viva_Ronaldo (U19085)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jordan Henderson's Backheel (Formally Kelly Is God) (U6983)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Viva_Ronaldo (U19085)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monster (U12889)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Viva_Ronaldo (U19085)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monster (U12889)
posted 20 seconds ago
Yes kagawa was impressive at dortmund but last time i checked he is a united player and he hasnt shown anything like his form at dortmund.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i'll repeat it again has kagawa had proper chance to show what he can do in his FAVOURITE position
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well why do you think he didnt get a chance? He wasnt good enough thats why.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i don't choose the team but on the other hand if i did i would have given kagawa a proper chance. during moyes era we were lacking creativity. i would have shifted rooney to the left, played rvp up top and played kagawa in AM role. see how that goes for few games and nothing happend then swap rooney position for kagawa. But, i would definitely given kagawa achance to see what he can do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 different managers now have decided not to utilise him in his most effective position for whatever reason. I think that says it all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
^ this is it..why do we buy players and never play them in their favoured position few examples jones/smalling being used as RB, DM, kagawa LM,CM, fellaini fack knows what his position is, then we had the likes of anderson, alan smith (anyone remember him),
-------------------------------------------------------------
I also think this is your main issue. you bought a class player like mata, and then totally misused him.
gross mismanagement be all concerned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
how have we missused him??
isnt this whole 352 bóllox being used so we can get Mata, Rooney and RVP all playing in their favoured positions???
For the people saying we shouldn't take £8m for these players (mainly Kagawa) just bear in mind the wages we will be paying even just for 1 year.
If we assume they are on approx £60k a week each, for all 3 of them that's £9.3 million pounds each year. If they are not going to feature much, get the £8m & save £3m a year on wages.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
We have to keep Klopp sweet.
Reus' contact runs out next summer, and we want him.
Hummels contract runs out the summer after, and we want him too...
----------------------------------------
And once we've signed Dortmund's best players, LVG's contract will probably run out. We'll probably want Klopp then.
how have we missused him??
isnt this whole 352 bóllox being used so we can get Mata, Rooney and RVP all playing in their favoured positions???
-----
I meant up to now.
moyes totally misused him last year.
LVG is better so he will probably use him better, but I am not convinced.
you remind me of us last year. your squad seems unbalanced and you are playing with no structure.
exactly like us under Dim Sherwood.
comment by Chronic - it's happened again. It's happened again. Last minute winner. It's happened again (U3423)
posted 3 minutes ago
how have we missused him??
isnt this whole 352 bóllox being used so we can get Mata, Rooney and RVP all playing in their favoured positions???
-----
I meant up to now.
moyes totally misused him last year.
LVG is better so he will probably use him better, but I am not convinced.
you remind me of us last year. your squad seems unbalanced and you are playing with no structure.
exactly like us under Dim Sherwood.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Moyes used a lot of player wrong last year, wouldnt read too much into that
comment by Gazza (U1266)
posted 7 minutes ago
I haven't read all of this thread but isn't it also possible after £132m of investment this summer, the Glazers have told LVG that he now has to sell to buy so you are just trying to get deals done quickly so he can sign 1-2 more players before the window closes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LVG said from the start he was going to evaluate the squad & move some on. He's always said we are unbalanced & have too many players in certain positions (mainly 10)
so far i would say lvg has made some good signing, if we make a top 4 place next year he will be making better signings than this year. most of the cr&p players will be sold and new players will be implemented into his system and watch us go next year
cannot see united making top 4 for a while though
comment by Chronic - it's happened again. It's happened again. Last minute winner. It's happened again (U3423)
posted 7 minutes ago
cannot see united making top 4 for a while though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only 2 games into the season, with 10-12 players out injured, our record signing not kicking a ball yet & maybe more players coming in..... that's a bold statement.
comment by Barf Vader (U15867)
posted 33 minutes ago
We have to keep Klopp sweet.
Reus' contact runs out next summer, and we want him.
Hummels contract runs out the summer after, and we want him too...
----------------------------------------
And once we've signed Dortmund's best players, LVG's contract will probably run out. We'll probably want Klopp then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's like you've read my mind.
comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Chronic -it's happened again. It's happened again. Last minute winner. It's happened again(U3423)
posted 7 minutes ago
cannot see united making top 4 for a while though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only 2 games into the season, with 10-12 players out injured, our record signing not kicking a ball yet & maybe more players coming in..... that's a bold statement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
blimey have we played 35 games already
comment by Viva_Ronaldo (U19085)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Chronic -it's happened again. It's happened again. Last minute winner. It's happened again(U3423)
posted 7 minutes ago
cannot see united making top 4 for a while though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only 2 games into the season, with 10-12 players out injured, our record signing not kicking a ball yet & maybe more players coming in..... that's a bold statement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
blimey have we played 35 games already
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Only 2 games INTO the season
In the second half of last season Moyes used Kagawa better than SaF or LvG ever did.
We played some good stuff with Mata, Kagawa and Adnan behind Rooney.
The stuff we played at West Ham and Newcastle was better football than I've seen at United in years.
Kagawa could be a success at United but the RvP signing ruined things for him IMO. Plus Kagawa has been guilty of not taking a lot of the chances managers gave him.
comment by # Robb #freeGazza (U19350)
posted 9 minutes ago
In the second half of last season Moyes used Kagawa better than SaF or LvG ever did.
We played some good stuff with Mata, Kagawa and Adnan behind Rooney.
The stuff we played at West Ham and Newcastle was better football than I've seen at United in years.
Kagawa could be a success at United but the RvP signing ruined things for him IMO. Plus Kagawa has been guilty of not taking a lot of the chances managers gave him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the games I've seen him, he struggles with the lack of time/space & gets muscled off the ball to easily. It's a shame as I was really excited when we signed him, but much like Forlan, it just hasn't worked for him.
best situation is offer £20m + kagawa for hummels a offer they cant refuse
I also think this is your main issue. you bought a class player like mata, and then totally misused him.
----------------
Mata wasn't mis-used. That is a myth.
He stated himself he wasn't playing on the RW like the media kept reporting, he played as an inside right like he did for Chelsea many times
Mata just took a little time to get going at United is all
comment by Gazza (U1266)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
I haven't read all of this thread but isn't it also possible after £132m of investment this summer, the Glazers have told LVG that he now has to sell to buy so you are just trying to get deals done quickly so he can sign 1-2 more players before the window closes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Possibly
Or it could be that the 200m warchest storied were true and if we offload 40-50m worth of players too, we still have 120m burning a hole in Woodward's pocket
comment by # Robb #freeGazza (U19350)
posted 22 minutes ago
In the second half of last season Moyes used Kagawa better than SaF or LvG ever did.
We played some good stuff with Mata, Kagawa and Adnan behind Rooney.
The stuff we played at West Ham and Newcastle was better football than I've seen at United in years.
Kagawa could be a success at United but the RvP signing ruined things for him IMO. Plus Kagawa has been guilty of not taking a lot of the chances managers gave him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't argue any of that
Moyes played Kagawa narrower than Fergie did, and Mata didn't play on the wing either
Tell me how Kagawa is worth more than 10million ?.
The guy has done b*gger all since he's been here.To be honest I'm surprised we're getting that much.
The stuff we played at West Ham and Newcastle was better football than I've seen at United in years.
=========================================
They were pretty much dead rubber games.
im not saying we should sell him player of his ability should stay or be used to get us another player from another club albeit exchange plus cash
comment by Wing_Genius_John_Aston (U19099)
posted 5 minutes ago
The stuff we played at West Ham and Newcastle was better football than I've seen at United in years.
=========================================
They were pretty much dead rubber games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really Wing
beating United is always a big thing for lesser clubs tbf
United played the best football I'd seen in years in those games.
Sign in if you want to comment
Dortmund bid £8million to resign
Page 3 of 4
posted on 29/8/14
Further to what Gazza said, I didn't have the impression that Luiz was stuck in the front garden with a 'surplus to requirements' sign nestling in his perm. It was more a feeling that Chelsea would listen to big offers - and they probably already had intelligence of the interest of big clubs like PSG and Barcelona.
In other words, really nothing like the situation of selling unwanted squad players to smaller teams.
posted on 29/8/14
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
In recent years players like Ozil, Luiz, Thiago Fabregas, Sanchez and Mata have all gone for big fees in spite of not being requires by their club.
------------------------------------------
As I said, there are exceptions, especially when the buying club is rich and desperate.
I don't think all of those players are good examples. For a start, none of them are quite what you'd call the deadwood, who have failed to make the grade and now need to sink down a level. They are all top international footballers who were bought by ambitious, rich clubs who saw the purchases as a stepping stone to the next level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the deadwood is the major point. He has done nothing for us to justify a big price tag.
But when much worse players are going for £10-£15m, you'd expect us to manage a decent fee, more than £8m anyway.
posted on 29/8/14
comment by Chronic - it's happened again. It's happened again. Last minute winner. It's happened again (U3423)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Viva_Ronaldo (U19085)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jordan Henderson's Backheel (Formally Kelly Is God) (U6983)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Viva_Ronaldo (U19085)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monster (U12889)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Viva_Ronaldo (U19085)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monster (U12889)
posted 20 seconds ago
Yes kagawa was impressive at dortmund but last time i checked he is a united player and he hasnt shown anything like his form at dortmund.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i'll repeat it again has kagawa had proper chance to show what he can do in his FAVOURITE position
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well why do you think he didnt get a chance? He wasnt good enough thats why.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i don't choose the team but on the other hand if i did i would have given kagawa a proper chance. during moyes era we were lacking creativity. i would have shifted rooney to the left, played rvp up top and played kagawa in AM role. see how that goes for few games and nothing happend then swap rooney position for kagawa. But, i would definitely given kagawa achance to see what he can do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 different managers now have decided not to utilise him in his most effective position for whatever reason. I think that says it all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
^ this is it..why do we buy players and never play them in their favoured position few examples jones/smalling being used as RB, DM, kagawa LM,CM, fellaini fack knows what his position is, then we had the likes of anderson, alan smith (anyone remember him),
-------------------------------------------------------------
I also think this is your main issue. you bought a class player like mata, and then totally misused him.
gross mismanagement be all concerned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
how have we missused him??
isnt this whole 352 bóllox being used so we can get Mata, Rooney and RVP all playing in their favoured positions???
posted on 29/8/14
For the people saying we shouldn't take £8m for these players (mainly Kagawa) just bear in mind the wages we will be paying even just for 1 year.
If we assume they are on approx £60k a week each, for all 3 of them that's £9.3 million pounds each year. If they are not going to feature much, get the £8m & save £3m a year on wages.
posted on 29/8/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/8/14
We have to keep Klopp sweet.
Reus' contact runs out next summer, and we want him.
Hummels contract runs out the summer after, and we want him too...
----------------------------------------
And once we've signed Dortmund's best players, LVG's contract will probably run out. We'll probably want Klopp then.
posted on 29/8/14
how have we missused him??
isnt this whole 352 bóllox being used so we can get Mata, Rooney and RVP all playing in their favoured positions???
-----
I meant up to now.
moyes totally misused him last year.
LVG is better so he will probably use him better, but I am not convinced.
you remind me of us last year. your squad seems unbalanced and you are playing with no structure.
exactly like us under Dim Sherwood.
posted on 29/8/14
comment by Chronic - it's happened again. It's happened again. Last minute winner. It's happened again (U3423)
posted 3 minutes ago
how have we missused him??
isnt this whole 352 bóllox being used so we can get Mata, Rooney and RVP all playing in their favoured positions???
-----
I meant up to now.
moyes totally misused him last year.
LVG is better so he will probably use him better, but I am not convinced.
you remind me of us last year. your squad seems unbalanced and you are playing with no structure.
exactly like us under Dim Sherwood.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Moyes used a lot of player wrong last year, wouldnt read too much into that
posted on 29/8/14
comment by Gazza (U1266)
posted 7 minutes ago
I haven't read all of this thread but isn't it also possible after £132m of investment this summer, the Glazers have told LVG that he now has to sell to buy so you are just trying to get deals done quickly so he can sign 1-2 more players before the window closes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LVG said from the start he was going to evaluate the squad & move some on. He's always said we are unbalanced & have too many players in certain positions (mainly 10)
posted on 29/8/14
so far i would say lvg has made some good signing, if we make a top 4 place next year he will be making better signings than this year. most of the cr&p players will be sold and new players will be implemented into his system and watch us go next year
posted on 29/8/14
cannot see united making top 4 for a while though
posted on 29/8/14
comment by Chronic - it's happened again. It's happened again. Last minute winner. It's happened again (U3423)
posted 7 minutes ago
cannot see united making top 4 for a while though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only 2 games into the season, with 10-12 players out injured, our record signing not kicking a ball yet & maybe more players coming in..... that's a bold statement.
posted on 29/8/14
comment by Barf Vader (U15867)
posted 33 minutes ago
We have to keep Klopp sweet.
Reus' contact runs out next summer, and we want him.
Hummels contract runs out the summer after, and we want him too...
----------------------------------------
And once we've signed Dortmund's best players, LVG's contract will probably run out. We'll probably want Klopp then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's like you've read my mind.
posted on 29/8/14
comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Chronic -it's happened again. It's happened again. Last minute winner. It's happened again(U3423)
posted 7 minutes ago
cannot see united making top 4 for a while though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only 2 games into the season, with 10-12 players out injured, our record signing not kicking a ball yet & maybe more players coming in..... that's a bold statement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
blimey have we played 35 games already
posted on 29/8/14
comment by Viva_Ronaldo (U19085)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Chronic -it's happened again. It's happened again. Last minute winner. It's happened again(U3423)
posted 7 minutes ago
cannot see united making top 4 for a while though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Only 2 games into the season, with 10-12 players out injured, our record signing not kicking a ball yet & maybe more players coming in..... that's a bold statement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
blimey have we played 35 games already
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Only 2 games INTO the season
posted on 29/8/14
In the second half of last season Moyes used Kagawa better than SaF or LvG ever did.
We played some good stuff with Mata, Kagawa and Adnan behind Rooney.
The stuff we played at West Ham and Newcastle was better football than I've seen at United in years.
Kagawa could be a success at United but the RvP signing ruined things for him IMO. Plus Kagawa has been guilty of not taking a lot of the chances managers gave him.
posted on 29/8/14
comment by # Robb #freeGazza (U19350)
posted 9 minutes ago
In the second half of last season Moyes used Kagawa better than SaF or LvG ever did.
We played some good stuff with Mata, Kagawa and Adnan behind Rooney.
The stuff we played at West Ham and Newcastle was better football than I've seen at United in years.
Kagawa could be a success at United but the RvP signing ruined things for him IMO. Plus Kagawa has been guilty of not taking a lot of the chances managers gave him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In the games I've seen him, he struggles with the lack of time/space & gets muscled off the ball to easily. It's a shame as I was really excited when we signed him, but much like Forlan, it just hasn't worked for him.
posted on 29/8/14
best situation is offer £20m + kagawa for hummels a offer they cant refuse
posted on 29/8/14
I also think this is your main issue. you bought a class player like mata, and then totally misused him.
----------------
Mata wasn't mis-used. That is a myth.
He stated himself he wasn't playing on the RW like the media kept reporting, he played as an inside right like he did for Chelsea many times
Mata just took a little time to get going at United is all
posted on 29/8/14
comment by Gazza (U1266)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
I haven't read all of this thread but isn't it also possible after £132m of investment this summer, the Glazers have told LVG that he now has to sell to buy so you are just trying to get deals done quickly so he can sign 1-2 more players before the window closes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Possibly
Or it could be that the 200m warchest storied were true and if we offload 40-50m worth of players too, we still have 120m burning a hole in Woodward's pocket
posted on 29/8/14
comment by # Robb #freeGazza (U19350)
posted 22 minutes ago
In the second half of last season Moyes used Kagawa better than SaF or LvG ever did.
We played some good stuff with Mata, Kagawa and Adnan behind Rooney.
The stuff we played at West Ham and Newcastle was better football than I've seen at United in years.
Kagawa could be a success at United but the RvP signing ruined things for him IMO. Plus Kagawa has been guilty of not taking a lot of the chances managers gave him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't argue any of that
Moyes played Kagawa narrower than Fergie did, and Mata didn't play on the wing either
posted on 29/8/14
Tell me how Kagawa is worth more than 10million ?.
The guy has done b*gger all since he's been here.To be honest I'm surprised we're getting that much.
posted on 29/8/14
The stuff we played at West Ham and Newcastle was better football than I've seen at United in years.
=========================================
They were pretty much dead rubber games.
posted on 29/8/14
im not saying we should sell him player of his ability should stay or be used to get us another player from another club albeit exchange plus cash
posted on 29/8/14
comment by Wing_Genius_John_Aston (U19099)
posted 5 minutes ago
The stuff we played at West Ham and Newcastle was better football than I've seen at United in years.
=========================================
They were pretty much dead rubber games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really Wing
beating United is always a big thing for lesser clubs tbf
United played the best football I'd seen in years in those games.
Page 3 of 4