Comment deleted by Site Moderator
They'd all just start smoking weed instead, Forza.
Do you know how many under 21 caps Eden Hazard, Thibaut Courtois, Dres Mertens, Kevin de Bruyne, Romelu Lukaku and Christian Benteke have between them?
This generation by-passed the U-21s and went straight into the first team.
(think it is 17, btw)
Very effective rules.
The key is reducing the age qualification to 15. By doing this the clubs simply cannot go abroad to sign players because most countries do not allow players to leave below 16.
They will work.
comment by In Welbeck We Trust (U10012)
posted 15 minutes ago
Wenger actually highlighted something interesting in the Telegraph today.
England U-18, U-20 and U-21 are still not successful and surely they can't blame the PL teams for this.
Money could be an issue as well. Lots of the youngsters lose their head as soon as they get their first paycheck.
I'm sure the British youngster are the best paid players of their age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are over paid. But if you increase supply by forcing academies to produce youngsters you have to use, you actually reduce the pressure on high wages.
Yep I thought as much that those players didn't do much at under 21 level.
Januzaj is another, though he hasn't achieved anything, but is an example of them fast tracking players to the senior team.
England fans slaughter the national set up when we do it, but then have a massive hard on for Belgium.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Since the original quotas were introduced English clubs have fared much worse in the CL, poorly in the Europa and the national team is certainly not in a better condition.
Increase the quota and the problem will get worse rather than better.
comment by In Welbeck We Trust (U10012)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by When will Eboue get a statue outside the emirates??? (U19165)
posted 31 minutes ago
What about if they are of Asian descent but born in Britain? Will they get in or be classed as a foreign import?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Asian descent and playing football......?! How many of them are they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ask Nigel Farage
Under 31's
DJ, when were the original quotas introduced?
The original quotas had a massive get around of age qualification. Getting youngsters from around Europe and then parking them as 'home grown' is the reason for the failure of the system.
Yes, you could get the best youngsters from around Europe and still decline.
When you are restricted to local lads (as most will) then that level will drop even more. Forcing crap players into first team squads will not turn them into top quality players, it will just make teams weaker. The weaker the teams, the weaker the league. The weaker the league the weaker the players. The weaker the players the weaker the national team.
It will fail.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Yeah that's true, Forza. These players are earning silly money as it is and it's only going to increase.
What year did the quotas come in?
Ok tah, thought it was fairly recent.
With that in mind I don't think there's much correlation between the decline and the premier league and the England team due to the quotas as the issues weren't exactly down to them.
Obviously you can say it hasn't fixed anything, though I would have thought if there was any positive influence it would take a few years longer anyway, but I don't think it's caused any damage either.
Whether the new proposals will be positive or negative remains to be seen.
There are problems with the present system.
a) Foreign youngsters are not loyal. Like it or not their proclivities lie with the highest bidder. It is easier for someone like Cesc to leave than an English youngster. Simply because the EU youngsters are already used to living in a suitacase. They very rarely if ever put down roots. Yes we can all point to exceptions to the rule that English payers are also likely to leave like Sterling. But unfortunately those English players have gotten the upper hand because there so few of them. The aim should always be to keep younger players together for longer because the longer the players stay with the team to grow up together the greater their chance of improving individually and collectively.
b) The level will drop initially. However the clubs are not being forced into all homegrown teams. Managers will have to be far more careful which foreign player they buy because they will be limited in buying and so will have to target the truly exceptional talents who can also fit into the rest of the team as well. That will actually have a better impact in driving up the skill set of the team.
c) The reduction of buying/selling will also drop the player price inflation in the market. The best players will not cost as much as the ridiculous prices being paid. That will in-turn put downward pressure on wages because they are directly proportional to transfer fees.
English players are loyal? No chance. If a bigger club comes in they will go. Always happens. As for having the upper hand, that will only increase with this rule.
No, the clubs are not being forced into HG teams. They are being forced into HG subs benches.
Player price will increase, as demand will increase.
The big clubs will need the best players, so they will buy them. The clubs who sells them will know the market is small, so will push the price up. Then they will have to go and get another player, and the club they buy off will also know the market is small, so again the price goes up.
Then the players who were sold to the better teams will become 'professional subs', not improve, then get replaced by the new in-form English player from a smaller club, while going back to a smaller club themselves where their career will fade into nothing.
A vicious cycle of potential - professional sub - wasted career.
All the while nations like Spain and Germany will progress with the B team system that allows player development from youngster to seasoned professional in competitive football.
Yeah I agree with DJ, the prices are more likely to go up than down.
English players are loyal? No chance. If a bigger club comes in they will go. Always happens. As for having the upper hand, that will only increase with this rule.
----------------------------
I am not saying English players are loyal. But transfers will stay within the English system. That lowers their transfer fees because the pool of players increases. This is not affecting just 4 teams. Its across the board. There is no point in championing an industry that runs a balance of trade deficit the way football does. All the money the premiership generates leaves the country in transfer fees to other countries. These rules will force some money to start to filter down the lower league pyramid as it used to.
No, the clubs are not being forced into HG teams. They are being forced into HG subs benches.
---------------
Good sound bite. Means nothing. You are assuming all English players poorer than their foreign counter parts. Thats what the rules are being written to improve eventually.
Player price will increase, as demand will increase.
------------------
How will demand increase if you are being limited on how many foreign players you can buy for your squad?
The big clubs will need the best players, so they will buy them. The clubs who sells them will know the market is small, so will push the price up. Then they will have to go and get another player, and the club they buy off will also know the market is small, so again the price goes up.
-----------------
Don't understand. Yes the 'big' clubs will need the best players. So what? Thats what happens now! But this time they are limited to how many players they can buy for their squad. So even if City or Chelsea WANT to buy all the best players in the world for every position they cannot do it because their squad REQUIRES 12 homegrown. And that would be true for Hull as well.
Don't understand all that stuff abt professional subs. You have automatically assumed all English players are cr@p and will remain cra@p forever. Very defeatist. Whats the point of the premiership even being based in England if its got nothing to do with English players? EPL should just change its name world league and base it out of Dubai.
But transfers will stay within the English system. That lowers their transfer fees because the pool of players increases.
===========
No it doesn't. Top clubs want top players. Their choices will be limited to top HG players for 12 players. This will be a very small pool of players whose price will be increased.
This filters down, every club will know teams above them will need these players. Prices will go up, quality will go down.
========
You are assuming all English players poorer than their foreign counter parts.
-----
If they are better they will play. No need for restrictive quotas.
======
How will demand increase if you are being limited on how many foreign players you can buy for your squad?
--------
Because teams will need 12 HG players. Top teams will want the best 12 HG players they can get. The demand will be great.
========
So even if City or Chelsea WANT to buy all the best players in the world for every position they cannot do it because their squad REQUIRES 12 homegrown
----------
They will want the best players they can get... so the best 13 foreign players AND the best 12 HG players.
You seem to be going on the thinking that the 12 HG players will come from that clubs academy when it simply won't happen. Players like Rodwell, SWP, Andy Carroll etc are proof to this. You put limits and requirements on who teams can and cannot have then this will effect market values.
You must have heard of supply and demand!!
240 PL players who are HG under the rules proposed would lead to a weakened PL and increased transfer values of average players just because they are British.
I reckon the premier league will reject it anyway.
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FA Proposals
Page 2 of 4
posted on 2/4/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/4/15
They'd all just start smoking weed instead, Forza.
posted on 2/4/15
Do you know how many under 21 caps Eden Hazard, Thibaut Courtois, Dres Mertens, Kevin de Bruyne, Romelu Lukaku and Christian Benteke have between them?
This generation by-passed the U-21s and went straight into the first team.
(think it is 17, btw)
posted on 2/4/15
Very effective rules.
The key is reducing the age qualification to 15. By doing this the clubs simply cannot go abroad to sign players because most countries do not allow players to leave below 16.
They will work.
posted on 2/4/15
comment by In Welbeck We Trust (U10012)
posted 15 minutes ago
Wenger actually highlighted something interesting in the Telegraph today.
England U-18, U-20 and U-21 are still not successful and surely they can't blame the PL teams for this.
Money could be an issue as well. Lots of the youngsters lose their head as soon as they get their first paycheck.
I'm sure the British youngster are the best paid players of their age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are over paid. But if you increase supply by forcing academies to produce youngsters you have to use, you actually reduce the pressure on high wages.
posted on 2/4/15
Yep I thought as much that those players didn't do much at under 21 level.
Januzaj is another, though he hasn't achieved anything, but is an example of them fast tracking players to the senior team.
England fans slaughter the national set up when we do it, but then have a massive hard on for Belgium.
posted on 2/4/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/4/15
Since the original quotas were introduced English clubs have fared much worse in the CL, poorly in the Europa and the national team is certainly not in a better condition.
Increase the quota and the problem will get worse rather than better.
posted on 2/4/15
comment by In Welbeck We Trust (U10012)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by When will Eboue get a statue outside the emirates??? (U19165)
posted 31 minutes ago
What about if they are of Asian descent but born in Britain? Will they get in or be classed as a foreign import?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Asian descent and playing football......?! How many of them are they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ask Nigel Farage
posted on 2/4/15
Under 31's
DJ, when were the original quotas introduced?
posted on 2/4/15
The original quotas had a massive get around of age qualification. Getting youngsters from around Europe and then parking them as 'home grown' is the reason for the failure of the system.
posted on 2/4/15
Yes, you could get the best youngsters from around Europe and still decline.
When you are restricted to local lads (as most will) then that level will drop even more. Forcing crap players into first team squads will not turn them into top quality players, it will just make teams weaker. The weaker the teams, the weaker the league. The weaker the league the weaker the players. The weaker the players the weaker the national team.
It will fail.
posted on 2/4/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/4/15
DJ?
posted on 2/4/15
Yeah that's true, Forza. These players are earning silly money as it is and it's only going to increase.
posted on 2/4/15
Yes Dazza?
posted on 2/4/15
What year did the quotas come in?
posted on 2/4/15
2010.
posted on 2/4/15
Ok tah, thought it was fairly recent.
With that in mind I don't think there's much correlation between the decline and the premier league and the England team due to the quotas as the issues weren't exactly down to them.
Obviously you can say it hasn't fixed anything, though I would have thought if there was any positive influence it would take a few years longer anyway, but I don't think it's caused any damage either.
Whether the new proposals will be positive or negative remains to be seen.
posted on 2/4/15
There are problems with the present system.
a) Foreign youngsters are not loyal. Like it or not their proclivities lie with the highest bidder. It is easier for someone like Cesc to leave than an English youngster. Simply because the EU youngsters are already used to living in a suitacase. They very rarely if ever put down roots. Yes we can all point to exceptions to the rule that English payers are also likely to leave like Sterling. But unfortunately those English players have gotten the upper hand because there so few of them. The aim should always be to keep younger players together for longer because the longer the players stay with the team to grow up together the greater their chance of improving individually and collectively.
b) The level will drop initially. However the clubs are not being forced into all homegrown teams. Managers will have to be far more careful which foreign player they buy because they will be limited in buying and so will have to target the truly exceptional talents who can also fit into the rest of the team as well. That will actually have a better impact in driving up the skill set of the team.
c) The reduction of buying/selling will also drop the player price inflation in the market. The best players will not cost as much as the ridiculous prices being paid. That will in-turn put downward pressure on wages because they are directly proportional to transfer fees.
posted on 2/4/15
English players are loyal? No chance. If a bigger club comes in they will go. Always happens. As for having the upper hand, that will only increase with this rule.
No, the clubs are not being forced into HG teams. They are being forced into HG subs benches.
Player price will increase, as demand will increase.
The big clubs will need the best players, so they will buy them. The clubs who sells them will know the market is small, so will push the price up. Then they will have to go and get another player, and the club they buy off will also know the market is small, so again the price goes up.
Then the players who were sold to the better teams will become 'professional subs', not improve, then get replaced by the new in-form English player from a smaller club, while going back to a smaller club themselves where their career will fade into nothing.
A vicious cycle of potential - professional sub - wasted career.
All the while nations like Spain and Germany will progress with the B team system that allows player development from youngster to seasoned professional in competitive football.
posted on 2/4/15
Yeah I agree with DJ, the prices are more likely to go up than down.
posted on 2/4/15
English players are loyal? No chance. If a bigger club comes in they will go. Always happens. As for having the upper hand, that will only increase with this rule.
----------------------------
I am not saying English players are loyal. But transfers will stay within the English system. That lowers their transfer fees because the pool of players increases. This is not affecting just 4 teams. Its across the board. There is no point in championing an industry that runs a balance of trade deficit the way football does. All the money the premiership generates leaves the country in transfer fees to other countries. These rules will force some money to start to filter down the lower league pyramid as it used to.
No, the clubs are not being forced into HG teams. They are being forced into HG subs benches.
---------------
Good sound bite. Means nothing. You are assuming all English players poorer than their foreign counter parts. Thats what the rules are being written to improve eventually.
Player price will increase, as demand will increase.
------------------
How will demand increase if you are being limited on how many foreign players you can buy for your squad?
The big clubs will need the best players, so they will buy them. The clubs who sells them will know the market is small, so will push the price up. Then they will have to go and get another player, and the club they buy off will also know the market is small, so again the price goes up.
-----------------
Don't understand. Yes the 'big' clubs will need the best players. So what? Thats what happens now! But this time they are limited to how many players they can buy for their squad. So even if City or Chelsea WANT to buy all the best players in the world for every position they cannot do it because their squad REQUIRES 12 homegrown. And that would be true for Hull as well.
Don't understand all that stuff abt professional subs. You have automatically assumed all English players are cr@p and will remain cra@p forever. Very defeatist. Whats the point of the premiership even being based in England if its got nothing to do with English players? EPL should just change its name world league and base it out of Dubai.
posted on 2/4/15
But transfers will stay within the English system. That lowers their transfer fees because the pool of players increases.
===========
No it doesn't. Top clubs want top players. Their choices will be limited to top HG players for 12 players. This will be a very small pool of players whose price will be increased.
This filters down, every club will know teams above them will need these players. Prices will go up, quality will go down.
========
You are assuming all English players poorer than their foreign counter parts.
-----
If they are better they will play. No need for restrictive quotas.
======
How will demand increase if you are being limited on how many foreign players you can buy for your squad?
--------
Because teams will need 12 HG players. Top teams will want the best 12 HG players they can get. The demand will be great.
========
So even if City or Chelsea WANT to buy all the best players in the world for every position they cannot do it because their squad REQUIRES 12 homegrown
----------
They will want the best players they can get... so the best 13 foreign players AND the best 12 HG players.
You seem to be going on the thinking that the 12 HG players will come from that clubs academy when it simply won't happen. Players like Rodwell, SWP, Andy Carroll etc are proof to this. You put limits and requirements on who teams can and cannot have then this will effect market values.
You must have heard of supply and demand!!
240 PL players who are HG under the rules proposed would lead to a weakened PL and increased transfer values of average players just because they are British.
posted on 2/4/15
I reckon the premier league will reject it anyway.
Page 2 of 4