"Anyone who says otherwise is immoral."
And you wonder why people think you're an idiot?
Juan, what are you on about? I find it offensive that you're trying to take digs at other people who are frustrated that a world cup has been awarded to a country with awful human rights issues.
Unless you think there is no problem in Qatar at all.
The above suggestion by IOAG that people like me or the media are targeting the Qatar world cup because they're 'Arabs' is even more offensive. Just shows how immature some people on here are when they'd rather play the race card when they can't see why people really have got issues with a certain problem that everyone can see with migrant worker deaths.
It's interesting that the two people I know who live in Spain (IOAG and Juan kerr) seem to be the ones defending Fifa and their decisions when Spain is one of the most loyal to Blatter countries out there.
I guess they've been brainwashed by their media. Ironic how they seem to think others are guilty of the same thing
every Brazil worker death was news over here and there wasn't that many in total. no doubt some sections of the media have their own agenda with Qatar but the reality is still pretty grim. Tbh the corruption isn't the issue for me, corruption is a given wherever there's large amounts of money doesn't matter what country it is, it would be more odd if that wasn't happening.
On a football level what do they do, goal line tech was 10 years too late, they reject trials for more technology, could do more to punish diving or blatant cheating, they said for years they need to do more to punish racism but they don't. They're so far behind the times.
The problem with people like Robb is that they now have to commit regardless of any facts being availed to them. No need to waste your time really.
What facts are these?
Please enlighten me. You'll probably say 'I'm not gonna waste my time' rather than show any facts because you don't have any.
Not buying what, Robb?
You've willingly bought and swallowed hook-line-and-sinker all of the gross misrepresentation you've been spoon fed by the media. Not a smidgen of remorse over having used and regurgitated the same lies.
Do you actually have real figures of work-related deaths worldwide? Honest question, because I've searched for them and couldn't find anything clear enough. So while I'm sure those death rates are appalling, I don't feelI'm in a position to say how much worse they are than other places. You obviously have all the figures though, please share.
Your views and you stance lead me to think that if you don't feel manipulated, it must be because it falls nicely in line with your own preconceived opinions, considering how outspoken you are on other issues that concern the 'non-civilised' world.
On Brazil, the main concern in the media over hosting the World Cup was about infrastructures not being ready on time. Totally different issues, though probably linked to the same-old same-old Western/Anglo-Saxon view of 90% of the planet being the Third World.
Btw, the Spanish media on the whole is dogshít Robb. On the whole, horribly insular and insensitive to social issues, with few exceptions. I definitely wouldn't recommend anyone dedicating them too much time on global issues.
Clear?
'so while I'm sure the death rates are appalling'
So if you readily admit that what the hell are you arguing?
My problem with Qatar isn't dependent on the deaths reaching a certain number. Its not dependent on the world cup being in a certain country or anything stupid like that. As I said before I find it offensive that you would use the race card to denounce my very real issues with Qatar hosting the world cup.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0O616820150521?irpc=932
Just last week Amnesty talked about how Qatar still isn't doing what is needed to ensure worker safety.
If you had hours I could sit here and tell you of all of my problems with the world. My issues with the Conservative government in the UK. My problems with the US foreign policy. My issues with how aborigines are treated by some people in Australia. All issues that I have with western countries and not the 'Arabs' in Qatar.
. But this is a football site and there is a world cup taking place in a country with some terrible human rights issues and that's why I'm against it so much. Hand on heart if Qatar improved conditions immensely and worker deaths didn't happen anymore my issues with Qatar would lessen. But as that Amnesty report says, little is changing.
.
So please don't paint me as some racist guy who hates little old Qatar with my pro - western glasses on because you don't know anything about me.
The above suggestion by IOAG that people like me or the media are targeting the Qatar world cup because they're 'Arabs' is even more offensive.
________
To clarify, at the time you posted this, I had spoken exclusively about media agendas, not anyone's personal agenda, and much less yours. Read back.
Why you might have felt included is beyond me, unless you view yourself as media. And actually, it's not the first time you've done it. I remember a previous discussion where you did the same and eventually retracted your statement.
I still wouldn't say you're racist by any stretch by the way, and I'm sure you care for a wide range of issues, I don't doubt it for one minute, I just think that on this and other occasions you are intentionally (I think) obtuse.
Didnt you say Australia would be perfect to host the WC yesterday though?
comment by internal solutions (U19964)
posted 22 minutes ago
every Brazil worker death was news over here and there wasn't that many in total.
-------------
Not 8, 10 or 12 years before the event they weren't, certainly not as far as I can recall. Amongst other things because until London had nailed down.
The outcry over Qatar is on a completely different scale.
Why is worker safety being raised now. When you all were flying to Dubai and enjoying urselfs in bbrautoful hotels, were was the cries for worker safety? Or all the clubs run by the same Qatar sheiks, you all collect the money without asking about workers. I smell bull§hit.
Rob is upset with Qatar but not the western contractors who are killing workers on their work sites.
This is the logic that baffles me. I have given multiple examples and even asked Robb to compare the deaths in the oil and gas industry to the construction industry.
Oil and Gas is far more dangerous but have an excellent safety record in the same country. So dear friends what is the problem? Qatar or the contractors? All the contractors are Western and one of the largest is one of ours based in Wolverhampton
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 53 seconds ago
Why is worker safety being raised now. When you all were flying to Dubai and enjoying urselfs in bbrautoful hotels, were was the cries for worker safety? Or all the clubs run by the same Qatar sheiks, you all collect the money without asking about workers. I smell bull§hit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Preach brother, preach. The hypocrisy and double standards irritate me immensely
Mudd, not sure why you're peddling this myth about me not condemning the construction companies. I've replied many times about this to you but you never seem to reply and keep saying this stuff.
Maybe you'll notice this. I've said and maybe even on this thread that the construction companies are very guilty. But the Qataris in charge of the country have the power to stop the deaths and the lax conditions which the construction companies work under. So the Qataris and the construction companies must both take their share of the blame.
So there it is, please accept that I don't just blame the 'evil arabs'. There is a lot of blame to be apportioned around but the people in power still have to do a lot to change things.
comment by Wumpatrol (U5046)
posted 13 minutes ago
Didnt you say Australia would be perfect to host the WC yesterday though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, and I still think that. I'd think Australia would be perfect to host the world cup even if England was hosting it. I think Australia is more deserving of a world cup than Qatar but that's all beside the point now. Qatar have the world cup and Australia don't.
What needs to be done is for huge improvements to be made to Qatars migrant worker conditions and as I posted above, Amnesty have huge doubts about whether or not these changes are coming.
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 9 minutes ago
Why is worker safety being raised now. When you all were flying to Dubai and enjoying urselfs in bbrautoful hotels, were was the cries for worker safety? Or all the clubs run by the same Qatar sheiks, you all collect the money without asking about workers. I smell bull§hit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, you've changed my mind. I don't mind migrant workers dying because I once went to the middle east and stayed in a nice hotel.
If the world was like you we'd never take up a cause because we couldn't get out of bed each day thinking about all of the bad things we'd inadvertently done.
So a country still practicing apartheid is perfect for a WC eh?
Robb like I have explained to you multiple times, their regulations are not in line with ours and there is allowance for incidents.
We allow 5 people to die in our own regulations before we can classify something as a major incident. When the empire state building was constructed they allowed for a person to die for every floor.
They had poor regulations in oil and gas. As a responsible company we told them this is not good enough and the industry worked with then to change. This showed 2 things. The qataris were willing to change and secondly they are not the evil monsters portrayed in the media.
So my question is this, these contractors know better, but do nothing.
Who in your opinion has the greater guilt? The person who does not know better or the person that does and does nothing about it?
comment by Wumpatrol (U5046)
posted 1 minute ago
So a country still practicing apartheid is perfect for a WC eh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeez, I wasn't aware Australia was 'practicing' apartheid. I think you need to research more about Australia before you make some pretty ignorant remarkable about it.
There are issues with aborigines in Australia but nowhere on the scale of the apartheid seen in South Africa.
And let's make this clear. If Australia were awarded a world cup I very much doubt anyone would die building it (bar maybe the odd one or two that die in these things). Believe me, if the world cup was awarded to Australia and hundreds or thousands were dying building the stadiums I'd be the first to be outraged.
I'm just surprised you seem to be overlooking the vast number of people dying building the Qatar world cup. Do you not believe people are dying on an unacceptable scale?
Qatar employs the contractors not the other way around so they're responsible.
http://www.herald.co.zw/apartheid-alive-and-well-in-australia/
comment by internal solutions (U19964)
posted 2 minutes ago
Qatar employs the contractors not the other way around so they're responsible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do the contractors know better?
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 4 minutes ago
Robb like I have explained to you multiple times, their regulations are not in line with ours and there is allowance for incidents.
We allow 5 people to die in our own regulations before we can classify something as a major incident. When the empire state building was constructed they allowed for a person to die for every floor.
They had poor regulations in oil and gas. As a responsible company we told them this is not good enough and the industry worked with then to change. This showed 2 things. The qataris were willing to change and secondly they are not the evil monsters portrayed in the media.
So my question is this, these contractors know better, but do nothing.
Who in your opinion has the greater guilt? The person who does not know better or the person that does and does nothing about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm confused as to who you say doesn't know any better? If you're suggesting that the Qataris don't know any better than surely they're not fit to host a world cup until they know better? It's almost like you're suggesting that it's worth sacrificing all these workers to make Qatar wake-up and know just how to treat migrant workers.
I'm sure they have the power and the intelligence to instantly make sweeping changes this very second. But amnesty seem to think very little is being done to change.
Regarding the companies - I have a lot of ire for these people. I very much think they should be prosecuted. It doesn't matter what country they're based in. They are evil. But I just wish the Qataris would exercise their power and the prosecute the companies themselves. That would send a message to the world that they don't allow migrant deaths to happen on their watch
Sign in if you want to comment
FIFA World Cup - UEFA boycott
Page 4 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 30/5/15
"Anyone who says otherwise is immoral."
And you wonder why people think you're an idiot?
posted on 30/5/15
Juan, what are you on about? I find it offensive that you're trying to take digs at other people who are frustrated that a world cup has been awarded to a country with awful human rights issues.
Unless you think there is no problem in Qatar at all.
The above suggestion by IOAG that people like me or the media are targeting the Qatar world cup because they're 'Arabs' is even more offensive. Just shows how immature some people on here are when they'd rather play the race card when they can't see why people really have got issues with a certain problem that everyone can see with migrant worker deaths.
posted on 30/5/15
It's interesting that the two people I know who live in Spain (IOAG and Juan kerr) seem to be the ones defending Fifa and their decisions when Spain is one of the most loyal to Blatter countries out there.
I guess they've been brainwashed by their media. Ironic how they seem to think others are guilty of the same thing
posted on 30/5/15
every Brazil worker death was news over here and there wasn't that many in total. no doubt some sections of the media have their own agenda with Qatar but the reality is still pretty grim. Tbh the corruption isn't the issue for me, corruption is a given wherever there's large amounts of money doesn't matter what country it is, it would be more odd if that wasn't happening.
On a football level what do they do, goal line tech was 10 years too late, they reject trials for more technology, could do more to punish diving or blatant cheating, they said for years they need to do more to punish racism but they don't. They're so far behind the times.
posted on 30/5/15
The problem with people like Robb is that they now have to commit regardless of any facts being availed to them. No need to waste your time really.
posted on 30/5/15
What facts are these?
Please enlighten me. You'll probably say 'I'm not gonna waste my time' rather than show any facts because you don't have any.
posted on 30/5/15
Not buying what, Robb?
You've willingly bought and swallowed hook-line-and-sinker all of the gross misrepresentation you've been spoon fed by the media. Not a smidgen of remorse over having used and regurgitated the same lies.
Do you actually have real figures of work-related deaths worldwide? Honest question, because I've searched for them and couldn't find anything clear enough. So while I'm sure those death rates are appalling, I don't feelI'm in a position to say how much worse they are than other places. You obviously have all the figures though, please share.
Your views and you stance lead me to think that if you don't feel manipulated, it must be because it falls nicely in line with your own preconceived opinions, considering how outspoken you are on other issues that concern the 'non-civilised' world.
On Brazil, the main concern in the media over hosting the World Cup was about infrastructures not being ready on time. Totally different issues, though probably linked to the same-old same-old Western/Anglo-Saxon view of 90% of the planet being the Third World.
posted on 30/5/15
Btw, the Spanish media on the whole is dogshít Robb. On the whole, horribly insular and insensitive to social issues, with few exceptions. I definitely wouldn't recommend anyone dedicating them too much time on global issues.
Clear?
posted on 30/5/15
'so while I'm sure the death rates are appalling'
So if you readily admit that what the hell are you arguing?
My problem with Qatar isn't dependent on the deaths reaching a certain number. Its not dependent on the world cup being in a certain country or anything stupid like that. As I said before I find it offensive that you would use the race card to denounce my very real issues with Qatar hosting the world cup.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0O616820150521?irpc=932
Just last week Amnesty talked about how Qatar still isn't doing what is needed to ensure worker safety.
If you had hours I could sit here and tell you of all of my problems with the world. My issues with the Conservative government in the UK. My problems with the US foreign policy. My issues with how aborigines are treated by some people in Australia. All issues that I have with western countries and not the 'Arabs' in Qatar.
. But this is a football site and there is a world cup taking place in a country with some terrible human rights issues and that's why I'm against it so much. Hand on heart if Qatar improved conditions immensely and worker deaths didn't happen anymore my issues with Qatar would lessen. But as that Amnesty report says, little is changing.
.
So please don't paint me as some racist guy who hates little old Qatar with my pro - western glasses on because you don't know anything about me.
posted on 30/5/15
The above suggestion by IOAG that people like me or the media are targeting the Qatar world cup because they're 'Arabs' is even more offensive.
________
To clarify, at the time you posted this, I had spoken exclusively about media agendas, not anyone's personal agenda, and much less yours. Read back.
Why you might have felt included is beyond me, unless you view yourself as media. And actually, it's not the first time you've done it. I remember a previous discussion where you did the same and eventually retracted your statement.
I still wouldn't say you're racist by any stretch by the way, and I'm sure you care for a wide range of issues, I don't doubt it for one minute, I just think that on this and other occasions you are intentionally (I think) obtuse.
posted on 30/5/15
Didnt you say Australia would be perfect to host the WC yesterday though?
posted on 30/5/15
comment by internal solutions (U19964)
posted 22 minutes ago
every Brazil worker death was news over here and there wasn't that many in total.
-------------
Not 8, 10 or 12 years before the event they weren't, certainly not as far as I can recall. Amongst other things because until London had nailed down.
The outcry over Qatar is on a completely different scale.
posted on 30/5/15
Why is worker safety being raised now. When you all were flying to Dubai and enjoying urselfs in bbrautoful hotels, were was the cries for worker safety? Or all the clubs run by the same Qatar sheiks, you all collect the money without asking about workers. I smell bull§hit.
posted on 30/5/15
Rob is upset with Qatar but not the western contractors who are killing workers on their work sites.
This is the logic that baffles me. I have given multiple examples and even asked Robb to compare the deaths in the oil and gas industry to the construction industry.
Oil and Gas is far more dangerous but have an excellent safety record in the same country. So dear friends what is the problem? Qatar or the contractors? All the contractors are Western and one of the largest is one of ours based in Wolverhampton
posted on 30/5/15
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 53 seconds ago
Why is worker safety being raised now. When you all were flying to Dubai and enjoying urselfs in bbrautoful hotels, were was the cries for worker safety? Or all the clubs run by the same Qatar sheiks, you all collect the money without asking about workers. I smell bull§hit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Preach brother, preach. The hypocrisy and double standards irritate me immensely
posted on 30/5/15
Mudd, not sure why you're peddling this myth about me not condemning the construction companies. I've replied many times about this to you but you never seem to reply and keep saying this stuff.
Maybe you'll notice this. I've said and maybe even on this thread that the construction companies are very guilty. But the Qataris in charge of the country have the power to stop the deaths and the lax conditions which the construction companies work under. So the Qataris and the construction companies must both take their share of the blame.
So there it is, please accept that I don't just blame the 'evil arabs'. There is a lot of blame to be apportioned around but the people in power still have to do a lot to change things.
posted on 30/5/15
comment by Wumpatrol (U5046)
posted 13 minutes ago
Didnt you say Australia would be perfect to host the WC yesterday though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, and I still think that. I'd think Australia would be perfect to host the world cup even if England was hosting it. I think Australia is more deserving of a world cup than Qatar but that's all beside the point now. Qatar have the world cup and Australia don't.
What needs to be done is for huge improvements to be made to Qatars migrant worker conditions and as I posted above, Amnesty have huge doubts about whether or not these changes are coming.
posted on 30/5/15
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 9 minutes ago
Why is worker safety being raised now. When you all were flying to Dubai and enjoying urselfs in bbrautoful hotels, were was the cries for worker safety? Or all the clubs run by the same Qatar sheiks, you all collect the money without asking about workers. I smell bull§hit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, you've changed my mind. I don't mind migrant workers dying because I once went to the middle east and stayed in a nice hotel.
If the world was like you we'd never take up a cause because we couldn't get out of bed each day thinking about all of the bad things we'd inadvertently done.
posted on 30/5/15
So a country still practicing apartheid is perfect for a WC eh?
posted on 30/5/15
Robb like I have explained to you multiple times, their regulations are not in line with ours and there is allowance for incidents.
We allow 5 people to die in our own regulations before we can classify something as a major incident. When the empire state building was constructed they allowed for a person to die for every floor.
They had poor regulations in oil and gas. As a responsible company we told them this is not good enough and the industry worked with then to change. This showed 2 things. The qataris were willing to change and secondly they are not the evil monsters portrayed in the media.
So my question is this, these contractors know better, but do nothing.
Who in your opinion has the greater guilt? The person who does not know better or the person that does and does nothing about it?
posted on 30/5/15
comment by Wumpatrol (U5046)
posted 1 minute ago
So a country still practicing apartheid is perfect for a WC eh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeez, I wasn't aware Australia was 'practicing' apartheid. I think you need to research more about Australia before you make some pretty ignorant remarkable about it.
There are issues with aborigines in Australia but nowhere on the scale of the apartheid seen in South Africa.
And let's make this clear. If Australia were awarded a world cup I very much doubt anyone would die building it (bar maybe the odd one or two that die in these things). Believe me, if the world cup was awarded to Australia and hundreds or thousands were dying building the stadiums I'd be the first to be outraged.
I'm just surprised you seem to be overlooking the vast number of people dying building the Qatar world cup. Do you not believe people are dying on an unacceptable scale?
posted on 30/5/15
Qatar employs the contractors not the other way around so they're responsible.
posted on 30/5/15
http://www.herald.co.zw/apartheid-alive-and-well-in-australia/
posted on 30/5/15
comment by internal solutions (U19964)
posted 2 minutes ago
Qatar employs the contractors not the other way around so they're responsible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do the contractors know better?
posted on 30/5/15
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 4 minutes ago
Robb like I have explained to you multiple times, their regulations are not in line with ours and there is allowance for incidents.
We allow 5 people to die in our own regulations before we can classify something as a major incident. When the empire state building was constructed they allowed for a person to die for every floor.
They had poor regulations in oil and gas. As a responsible company we told them this is not good enough and the industry worked with then to change. This showed 2 things. The qataris were willing to change and secondly they are not the evil monsters portrayed in the media.
So my question is this, these contractors know better, but do nothing.
Who in your opinion has the greater guilt? The person who does not know better or the person that does and does nothing about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm confused as to who you say doesn't know any better? If you're suggesting that the Qataris don't know any better than surely they're not fit to host a world cup until they know better? It's almost like you're suggesting that it's worth sacrificing all these workers to make Qatar wake-up and know just how to treat migrant workers.
I'm sure they have the power and the intelligence to instantly make sweeping changes this very second. But amnesty seem to think very little is being done to change.
Regarding the companies - I have a lot of ire for these people. I very much think they should be prosecuted. It doesn't matter what country they're based in. They are evil. But I just wish the Qataris would exercise their power and the prosecute the companies themselves. That would send a message to the world that they don't allow migrant deaths to happen on their watch
Page 4 of 7
6 | 7