Wenger puts a hell of a lot of faith into his players. He wont let Ozil go easily unless Ozil himself decides he's had enough which I suspect he might do.
s angry as i was yesterday, i cant start singling out players yet, it's only been 1 game, maybe nearer the end of the season my views on certain players might change.
-----
But I'm not singling him out based solely on yesterday's performance. This is about his indifferent form in an Arsenal shirt since he joined us in 2013. Obviously I also want to give him until the end of the season to prove me wrong, but based on previous evidence, it's not looking likely.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know, over the past 2 seasons, i would probaly rate him below-average, for what we paid and what is expected.
But i think it's one of those situations where, due to his age and former reputation, he can still "come good" for those of us (maybe naievly)who believe he will at some point.
Ozil gets rushed at by players more in England than he would do in Spain or Germany, add to that he's probably homesick and living over here is difficult to adapt, his best years are probably behind him
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The problem with Ozil is that our wide players keep coming inside, into his territory, and take away his options of playing through balls down the wings.
Ozil is excellent at spreading the play but when Ramsey, Ox, Cazorla are all standing 5 yards from him it makes our play to static and it requires way to much interplay in the middle of the park when one-twos should be kept for trying to play our way into the penalty box, NOT in the centre circle.
We spend way to much time pssing about in the middle of the field when we should be playing the ball our wide quickly and forcing the opposition to spread themselves across the width of the pitch. This allows us to create overlaps on the opposite side of the pitch which we can expose by playing through Ozil.
The problem isn't that Ozil is sht, the problem is that the team set up is sht and it doesn't matter who plays at CAM, the struggle would be the same.
Wenger needs to sort this out or we will be painful to watch for the next couple of months.
Usually we revert to this set-up because of injuries but yesterday we played like this even though we had options to play outwide. Wenger screwed the tactics and West Ham could just flood the centre and not worry about their FBs.
When we did attack down the wings we caused problems EVERY time.
Why does Wenger always have to change a winning formula just so he can play his "favourites"?
It's infuriating to say the least.
Easy. When Wenger gets sacked, maybe the new manager will be able to motivate Ozil better.
Mesut Ozil is very talented, and with Chamberlain and Sanchez either side of him, he'd be excellent.
But the premier league is too quick for him and he's too weak to excel here.
You best team has Jack Wilshere / Aaron Ramsey playing instead of Ozil in an Iniesta type role, with Cazorla and Coquelin also in midfield.
Walcott (new striker) Sanchez in front of that would be good, but you'll not win the league with Wenger.
"You best team has Jack Wilshere / Aaron Ramsey playing instead of Ozil in an Iniesta type role, with Cazorla and Coquelin also in midfield."
This is bull. Wilshere behind the striker does not work. Ramsey there is a joke.
My main issue with ozil is he has turned into no more than a passer. He used to glide past players and dribble like hazard and iniesta. We've literally seen none of that.
i know this thread is about Ozil but I think what comes out of it, is we don't have a very good box to box midfielder. Ramsey was the closes to that but on current form that aint happening.
comment by Mr Chelsea ✪ (U3579)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
Wenger puts a hell of a lot of faith into his players. He wont let Ozil go easily unless Ozil himself decides he's had enough which I suspect he might do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is his downfall
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Would any of you take Couthino ahead of Ozil?
Can't say I'm surprised to see the same old clowns mocking Ozil.
He was no worse than Ramsey or Coquelin.
"Would any of you take Couthino ahead of Ozil?"
No.
At this point in time, probably. Not because I think he's a better player, because he isn't, but he's settled into the league better and single handedly won Liverpool games.
Coutinho is even more inconsistent than Ozil.
Feel out Bayern to see if they are interested.
Seems to be afraid to shoot on goal?
We can't continue to have no pace upfront and not runners and expect ozil to perform. There is literally no point starting him unless we play pacy attacking players
"We can't continue to have no pace upfront and not runners and expect ozil to perform. There is literally no point starting him unless we play pacy attacking players"
People just can't wrap their heads around this.
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 4 hours, 35 minutes ago
Ozil isn't our biggest problem, but he is A problem. It is a problem that his inclusion in the team means we don't play as expansive, attractive or efficient football, especially when he drifts out wide (which I'm not sure if the manager instructs him to do or not).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Regardless of whether Wenger instructs him to or not, what else would you like him to do? There is simply no point in him staying in the middle when everybody else is there taking up his space.
There are basic fundamentals being applied wrongly in this team, and that's the main thing we need to work on. Get that right, and hopefully Mesut will start to shine.
Again. I'm not defending Ozil, he was average yesterday. But he was the only midfielder going about the game with any common sense.
"I said it at the time that he was bought in to keep Wenger in a job,and it worked."
===
What an oaf.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 4 hours, 35 minutes ago
Ozil isn't our biggest problem, but he is A problem. It is a problem that his inclusion in the team means we don't play as expansive, attractive or efficient football, especially when he drifts out wide (which I'm not sure if the manager instructs him to do or not).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Regardless of whether Wenger instructs him to or not, what else would you like him to do? There is simply no point in him staying in the middle when everybody else is there taking up his space.
There are basic fundamentals being applied wrongly in this team, and that's the main thing we need to work on. Get that right, and hopefully Mesut will start to shine.
Again. I'm not defending Ozil, he was average yesterday. But he was the only midfielder going about the game with any common sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is not an isolated incident. It's not always the central parts of midfield that get congested, he sometimes moves out wide because he feels like he isn't getting the ball enough rather than sticking to his position.
This is more than his positioning on the pitch. This is to do with him not improving since he joined. This is to do with misplacing simple passes, getting dispossessed effortlessly and not playing with any urgency. These things aren't the manager's fault. The game itself yesterday there was certainly a collective responsibility because it wasn't all his fault for the reasons you stated above, but where you and I differ is that I think he was one of the worst players on the pitch, whereas you don't.
Yesterday was just the straw the broke the camel's back in a way because he can get basic things wrong on a regular basis.
You're totally right that there are fundamentals wrongly being applied to the team from a tactical viewpoint, but the players don't do themselves any favours either.
Sign in if you want to comment
What to do with Mesut Özil?
Page 3 of 4
posted on 10/8/15
Wenger puts a hell of a lot of faith into his players. He wont let Ozil go easily unless Ozil himself decides he's had enough which I suspect he might do.
posted on 10/8/15
s angry as i was yesterday, i cant start singling out players yet, it's only been 1 game, maybe nearer the end of the season my views on certain players might change.
-----
But I'm not singling him out based solely on yesterday's performance. This is about his indifferent form in an Arsenal shirt since he joined us in 2013. Obviously I also want to give him until the end of the season to prove me wrong, but based on previous evidence, it's not looking likely.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know, over the past 2 seasons, i would probaly rate him below-average, for what we paid and what is expected.
But i think it's one of those situations where, due to his age and former reputation, he can still "come good" for those of us (maybe naievly)who believe he will at some point.
posted on 10/8/15
Ozil gets rushed at by players more in England than he would do in Spain or Germany, add to that he's probably homesick and living over here is difficult to adapt, his best years are probably behind him
posted on 10/8/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/8/15
The problem with Ozil is that our wide players keep coming inside, into his territory, and take away his options of playing through balls down the wings.
Ozil is excellent at spreading the play but when Ramsey, Ox, Cazorla are all standing 5 yards from him it makes our play to static and it requires way to much interplay in the middle of the park when one-twos should be kept for trying to play our way into the penalty box, NOT in the centre circle.
We spend way to much time pssing about in the middle of the field when we should be playing the ball our wide quickly and forcing the opposition to spread themselves across the width of the pitch. This allows us to create overlaps on the opposite side of the pitch which we can expose by playing through Ozil.
The problem isn't that Ozil is sht, the problem is that the team set up is sht and it doesn't matter who plays at CAM, the struggle would be the same.
Wenger needs to sort this out or we will be painful to watch for the next couple of months.
Usually we revert to this set-up because of injuries but yesterday we played like this even though we had options to play outwide. Wenger screwed the tactics and West Ham could just flood the centre and not worry about their FBs.
When we did attack down the wings we caused problems EVERY time.
Why does Wenger always have to change a winning formula just so he can play his "favourites"?
It's infuriating to say the least.
posted on 10/8/15
Easy. When Wenger gets sacked, maybe the new manager will be able to motivate Ozil better.
posted on 10/8/15
Mesut Ozil is very talented, and with Chamberlain and Sanchez either side of him, he'd be excellent.
But the premier league is too quick for him and he's too weak to excel here.
You best team has Jack Wilshere / Aaron Ramsey playing instead of Ozil in an Iniesta type role, with Cazorla and Coquelin also in midfield.
Walcott (new striker) Sanchez in front of that would be good, but you'll not win the league with Wenger.
posted on 10/8/15
"You best team has Jack Wilshere / Aaron Ramsey playing instead of Ozil in an Iniesta type role, with Cazorla and Coquelin also in midfield."
This is bull. Wilshere behind the striker does not work. Ramsey there is a joke.
posted on 10/8/15
My main issue with ozil is he has turned into no more than a passer. He used to glide past players and dribble like hazard and iniesta. We've literally seen none of that.
posted on 10/8/15
i know this thread is about Ozil but I think what comes out of it, is we don't have a very good box to box midfielder. Ramsey was the closes to that but on current form that aint happening.
posted on 10/8/15
comment by Mr Chelsea ✪ (U3579)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
Wenger puts a hell of a lot of faith into his players. He wont let Ozil go easily unless Ozil himself decides he's had enough which I suspect he might do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is his downfall
posted on 10/8/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/8/15
Would any of you take Couthino ahead of Ozil?
posted on 10/8/15
Can't say I'm surprised to see the same old clowns mocking Ozil.
He was no worse than Ramsey or Coquelin.
posted on 10/8/15
"Would any of you take Couthino ahead of Ozil?"
No.
posted on 10/8/15
At this point in time, probably. Not because I think he's a better player, because he isn't, but he's settled into the league better and single handedly won Liverpool games.
posted on 10/8/15
Coutinho is even more inconsistent than Ozil.
posted on 10/8/15
Feel out Bayern to see if they are interested.
posted on 10/8/15
Seems to be afraid to shoot on goal?
posted on 10/8/15
We can't continue to have no pace upfront and not runners and expect ozil to perform. There is literally no point starting him unless we play pacy attacking players
posted on 10/8/15
"We can't continue to have no pace upfront and not runners and expect ozil to perform. There is literally no point starting him unless we play pacy attacking players"
People just can't wrap their heads around this.
posted on 10/8/15
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 4 hours, 35 minutes ago
Ozil isn't our biggest problem, but he is A problem. It is a problem that his inclusion in the team means we don't play as expansive, attractive or efficient football, especially when he drifts out wide (which I'm not sure if the manager instructs him to do or not).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Regardless of whether Wenger instructs him to or not, what else would you like him to do? There is simply no point in him staying in the middle when everybody else is there taking up his space.
There are basic fundamentals being applied wrongly in this team, and that's the main thing we need to work on. Get that right, and hopefully Mesut will start to shine.
Again. I'm not defending Ozil, he was average yesterday. But he was the only midfielder going about the game with any common sense.
posted on 10/8/15
"I said it at the time that he was bought in to keep Wenger in a job,and it worked."
===
What an oaf.
posted on 10/8/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/8/15
comment by Tu Meke Santi (U3732)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 4 hours, 35 minutes ago
Ozil isn't our biggest problem, but he is A problem. It is a problem that his inclusion in the team means we don't play as expansive, attractive or efficient football, especially when he drifts out wide (which I'm not sure if the manager instructs him to do or not).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Regardless of whether Wenger instructs him to or not, what else would you like him to do? There is simply no point in him staying in the middle when everybody else is there taking up his space.
There are basic fundamentals being applied wrongly in this team, and that's the main thing we need to work on. Get that right, and hopefully Mesut will start to shine.
Again. I'm not defending Ozil, he was average yesterday. But he was the only midfielder going about the game with any common sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is not an isolated incident. It's not always the central parts of midfield that get congested, he sometimes moves out wide because he feels like he isn't getting the ball enough rather than sticking to his position.
This is more than his positioning on the pitch. This is to do with him not improving since he joined. This is to do with misplacing simple passes, getting dispossessed effortlessly and not playing with any urgency. These things aren't the manager's fault. The game itself yesterday there was certainly a collective responsibility because it wasn't all his fault for the reasons you stated above, but where you and I differ is that I think he was one of the worst players on the pitch, whereas you don't.
Yesterday was just the straw the broke the camel's back in a way because he can get basic things wrong on a regular basis.
You're totally right that there are fundamentals wrongly being applied to the team from a tactical viewpoint, but the players don't do themselves any favours either.
Page 3 of 4