J99
Not really one for outlandish conspiracy theories
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ramsey is the new right winger, get used to it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I prefer to call it the "Dirk Kuyt" position. Makes it easier to live with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you have it right though! Ramsey on the wing is precisely so that he can make up for glaring deficiencies of other players. Wenger never replaced Gilberto properly. We needed a ball playing holding player. When Wenger realised that Denilson was not going to be the man he should have gone out and bought someone who could defend in midfield and still initiate attacks. He made a half hearted attempt at Xabi Alonso who would have been perfect and then failed to get his second choice, Inler when he had the chance. Since then its always been someone who doesn't quite fit. First Song, then Arteta and in between Flamini and now Coquelin.
Wenger needs to play Santi with Coq to make up fro Coq's lack of passing. But then Santi is too small in the premier league for that position so also need Ramsey to beef up those two. And it goes on and on. I am not sure Wenger can construct a winning squad without David Dein.
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
J99
Not really one for outlandish conspiracy theories
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What conspiracy theory?
I just said Wenger was deluded!
theo is not proven upfront
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
J99
Not really one for outlandish conspiracy theories
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What conspiracy theory?
I just said Wenger was deluded!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on your own interpretation of fragments of information in the public domain. And you believe AW is deluded
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on your own interpretation of fragments of information in the public domain. And you believe AW is deluded
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on information that others have leaked. Or didn't we bid for Higuain or Suarez? Or did we not buy Welbeck?
Didn't Wenger come out publicly saying he didn't promise Welbeck the striker position when it was questioned if Giroud would walk straight back into the team as striker? Is that protecting Giroud?
You can bury your head in the sand like so many who try to justify every move Wenger makes. However I was a fan long before Wenger came to Arsenal.
J99
The length of time supporting the club is irrelevant.
AW has many faults but it seems you wish to exploit any opportunity as an excuse to further your agenda against him.
You state AW made “half hearted” and “pretended” to address the CF position, yet at the same time acknowledge bids for Higuain and Suarez. Not sure what reality you live in but a formal club-record offer for Suarez was neither “halfhearted” nor bogus.
Are you suggesting that AFC simply faked the bids to appease fans?
AW “comes out publically” time and again. History confirms however that he prefers to keep his cards close to his chest, and retain matters as in house as possible.
I do think some people have become so fixated with replacing Giroud, that they've lost a bit of perspective. I think our priority is still cover/competition for Coquelin.
I think we're doing ok for goals from forward positions tbh, even if we could marginally improve our stoking options (though only at great expense). I also think people don't realise how many chances Benzema misses, despite his quality.
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 2 minutes ago
J99
The length of time supporting the club is irrelevant.
AW has many faults but it seems you wish to exploit any opportunity as an excuse to further your agenda against him.
Are you suggesting that AFC simply faked the bids to appease fans?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The length of time supporting Arsenal is very relevant because a lot fans have never seen an Arsenal without Wenger. Its creates a mythology that surrounds him which makes it more difficult to call for change when it is becoming more and more apparent one is needed.
I do not have some agenda against Wenger and like most of those on here I have come to the conclusion that Wenger is not capable of winning us major trophies because he fails to address the most obvious deficiencies. Not ones that there is debate over but those that most who follow Arsenal can see. Henry has been vocal in spelling some of those out recently. And as Henry is doing his coaching badges with us I suspect many in the coaching staff share the beliefs he has spelled out of the last 6 months.
Now in the real world there is a difference between paying lip service attempt at signing a player and a proper move. For example bidding £50m for Suarez instead of £1 over £40m that was always going to lead to dispute and then not having the gumption to follow through with court action if required. The difference in commitment to making a change and therefore accepting the risk involved. Just look at Man Utd's half hearted attempt at Pedro which saw them being gazumped by Chelsea who really wanted the player. It shows that Wenger is not sure of his moves. I believe that is because he is over protective of signings rather than admitting something is not working and making the change. In the past David Dein was the one who pushed transfers over of the edge while Wenger dithered. He offered him clear advice that Wenger trusted on players who were not suited or not working the system. Wenger doesn't have that person on the board. Now that Wenger has full control I do not believe he has the ruthlessness to make changes because he is too close to the dressing room. I have said it before, he is too loyal and protective over his foreign players, especially the French.
I fail to see how bidding for strikers, buying welbeck, playing Theo up front who clearly isn't a striker and is already 26, and playing sanogo in our biggest game of the season shows a love in with giroud.
Giroud is consistent and has a good goal ratio. I don't get why he is so often singled out. He cost ten mil ffs what do people expect.
What a load of bull.
Benzema is world class. The naysayers would turn out looking silly if he were to join.
Don't think we'll ever see people change their stance as quickly as these clowns would.
No comment from my side.... apart that I want to congratulate Someday for his outstanding contribution
He is world class. It's clear half of you guys don't watch him.
J99
You are aware the state the club was in under Don Howe?? Maybe a bit of perspective is required.
The constant rhetoric from the naysayers was that Arsenal would never win another trophy under AW. AW has just won back to back FA Cups. He is more than capable of winning major trophies.
He is not perfect and makes mistakes, as do all but he is far from delusional as you believe.
To imply offering a club record transfer fee is no more than “lip service” is absurd. Why would any club pay millions more than a contractual release cause? And as you have suggested nearly £10m more
Nevertheless that is hardly the point, as you alleged AW’s attempts to strengthen the squad were apathetic and some sort of a charade to protect Giroud. A sentiment so farfetched it is difficult to find words to respond to.
For those saying Walcott isn't proven, do you mean proven like Giroud? Proven he's not good enough over 3 full seasons at CF?
I'm not saying Walcott is the answer but one thing we all know is that Giroud isn't. Ideally we buy a new CF, failing that we try Walcott. Giroud is just repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting a different result.
Some good reading here, i would guess the answers lay probably in the middle in terms of opinions.
For me, wenger always falls short in his management of producing another title winning Arsenal, not sure if its because now he holds all the cards where as mentioned he had DD before. Im fairly convinced he will never win the league again but id love to be proved wrong.
To imply offering a club record transfer fee is no more than “lip service” is absurd. Why would any club pay millions more than a contractual release cause? And as you have suggested nearly £10m more
-------------------------------------
And you think in hindsight that was absurd? Because it gets the deal done. As I pointed out they should have taken Liverpool to court if they were going down the route of using a contract technicality. That shows commitment. But he didn't do that instead showed the club was weak. Arsenal did not come out well at all. They became a laughing stock. So much so that JW Henry is giving speeches to MBA schools on how to conduct negotiations.
Nevertheless that is hardly the point, as you alleged AW’s attempts to strengthen the squad were apathetic and some sort of a charade to protect Giroud. A sentiment so farfetched it is difficult to find words to respond to.
----------------------------------
So what what do you think Wenger means when he says he has enough but someone special comes available then he will buy him? Is Giroud enough or not? Either you need a player or you don't. What is the double talk if not to protect the player?
Thats why I said quite clearly if you read back to my comments on this thread. Its very simple. Either you believe you need a striker or you don't. If you believe you do, go and buy one. Don't prevaricate as you have been for the last 3 years. Take the decision and move on. Don't bull sh/t fans. I hope this time he is serious about Benzema. Only he can prove 'how serious' he is.
comment by Science (U19684)
posted 10 minutes ago
For those saying Walcott isn't proven, do you mean proven like Giroud? Proven he's not good enough over 3 full seasons at CF?
I'm not saying Walcott is the answer but one thing we all know is that Giroud isn't. Ideally we buy a new CF, failing that we try Walcott. Giroud is just repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting a different result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
๐๐๐
J99
As I am sure you are aware it’s probably best not taking AW media comments as gospel.
You also seem to believe bringing in a world class CF is as simple as shopping in Tesco.
AW may well be serious on buying Benzema. If Madrid refuse to sell, there is little AFC can do. Unless they “get the job done” by offering, say £80m for him?
You also seem to believe bringing in a world class CF is as simple as shopping in Tesco.
--------------------------
Although its an anonymous forum and you probably won't believe me but I advise on similar size deals all the time. Not in football but the basis is still the same. In any negotiation you need the 'will' to get the deal over the line. Unless you have total belief in the decision you are taking, it will not get off the ground. As an outside observer this is what I have seen from Wenger. And especially in case of Giroud. I genuinely don't think he is sure and has protected him for far too long. Wenger almost needed Henry to spell it out for him. And as I pointed out, Henry is doing his coaching badges with us so I don't think its an isolated opinion at Arsenal.
Now this was my point abt Benzema. If you are sure Giroud is not the answer and believed in the past that Suarez may have been or Higuain may been you don't stop if you can't get them because the basic premise is that 'Giroud is NOT the answer' hasn't changed. You don't stop and sit on you laurels for 3 years! Try other players. Buy other players. Sell Giroud. Its not good for you, or the club or in fact Giroud because you are constantly undermining him by bidding on Suarez, Higuain, Benzema etc.
J99 the point is we don't need a striker numbers wise but quality wise. Welbeck was hardly top of the list but he was necessary at times last year.
Tbf if you look over recent times, giroud is probably the best buy wenger has made for CF role, he really has bought some dross.
Although its an anonymous forum and you probably won't believe me but I advise on similar size deals all the time. Not in football but the basis is still the same. In any negotiation you need the 'will' to get the deal over the line. Unless you have total belief in the decision you are taking, it will not get off the ground.
_______________
No, you're wrong. Football business is completel different. You deal with clubs who have absolute no need to sell. So if the player havent got a buyout clause for example and the club wont sell his player, you cant put in 10M more and get the deal done. United wants Müller and pay over the odds for him...He has no buyout clause (I do believe the player doesnt like to leave his home - only a personal view), so you can pay what you want.....he is not for sale. End of story. Suarez situation was completely different. He had a buyout clause and Wenger wanted him. We all know how we end up.
Sign in if you want to comment
When will you clueless fangirls accept that
Page 2 of 3
posted on 21/8/15
J99
Not really one for outlandish conspiracy theories
posted on 21/8/15
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ramsey is the new right winger, get used to it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I prefer to call it the "Dirk Kuyt" position. Makes it easier to live with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you have it right though! Ramsey on the wing is precisely so that he can make up for glaring deficiencies of other players. Wenger never replaced Gilberto properly. We needed a ball playing holding player. When Wenger realised that Denilson was not going to be the man he should have gone out and bought someone who could defend in midfield and still initiate attacks. He made a half hearted attempt at Xabi Alonso who would have been perfect and then failed to get his second choice, Inler when he had the chance. Since then its always been someone who doesn't quite fit. First Song, then Arteta and in between Flamini and now Coquelin.
Wenger needs to play Santi with Coq to make up fro Coq's lack of passing. But then Santi is too small in the premier league for that position so also need Ramsey to beef up those two. And it goes on and on. I am not sure Wenger can construct a winning squad without David Dein.
posted on 21/8/15
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
J99
Not really one for outlandish conspiracy theories
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What conspiracy theory?
I just said Wenger was deluded!
posted on 21/8/15
theo is not proven upfront
posted on 21/8/15
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
J99
Not really one for outlandish conspiracy theories
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What conspiracy theory?
I just said Wenger was deluded!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on your own interpretation of fragments of information in the public domain. And you believe AW is deluded
posted on 21/8/15
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on your own interpretation of fragments of information in the public domain. And you believe AW is deluded
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on information that others have leaked. Or didn't we bid for Higuain or Suarez? Or did we not buy Welbeck?
Didn't Wenger come out publicly saying he didn't promise Welbeck the striker position when it was questioned if Giroud would walk straight back into the team as striker? Is that protecting Giroud?
You can bury your head in the sand like so many who try to justify every move Wenger makes. However I was a fan long before Wenger came to Arsenal.
posted on 21/8/15
J99
The length of time supporting the club is irrelevant.
AW has many faults but it seems you wish to exploit any opportunity as an excuse to further your agenda against him.
You state AW made “half hearted” and “pretended” to address the CF position, yet at the same time acknowledge bids for Higuain and Suarez. Not sure what reality you live in but a formal club-record offer for Suarez was neither “halfhearted” nor bogus.
Are you suggesting that AFC simply faked the bids to appease fans?
AW “comes out publically” time and again. History confirms however that he prefers to keep his cards close to his chest, and retain matters as in house as possible.
posted on 21/8/15
I do think some people have become so fixated with replacing Giroud, that they've lost a bit of perspective. I think our priority is still cover/competition for Coquelin.
I think we're doing ok for goals from forward positions tbh, even if we could marginally improve our stoking options (though only at great expense). I also think people don't realise how many chances Benzema misses, despite his quality.
posted on 21/8/15
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 2 minutes ago
J99
The length of time supporting the club is irrelevant.
AW has many faults but it seems you wish to exploit any opportunity as an excuse to further your agenda against him.
Are you suggesting that AFC simply faked the bids to appease fans?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The length of time supporting Arsenal is very relevant because a lot fans have never seen an Arsenal without Wenger. Its creates a mythology that surrounds him which makes it more difficult to call for change when it is becoming more and more apparent one is needed.
I do not have some agenda against Wenger and like most of those on here I have come to the conclusion that Wenger is not capable of winning us major trophies because he fails to address the most obvious deficiencies. Not ones that there is debate over but those that most who follow Arsenal can see. Henry has been vocal in spelling some of those out recently. And as Henry is doing his coaching badges with us I suspect many in the coaching staff share the beliefs he has spelled out of the last 6 months.
Now in the real world there is a difference between paying lip service attempt at signing a player and a proper move. For example bidding £50m for Suarez instead of £1 over £40m that was always going to lead to dispute and then not having the gumption to follow through with court action if required. The difference in commitment to making a change and therefore accepting the risk involved. Just look at Man Utd's half hearted attempt at Pedro which saw them being gazumped by Chelsea who really wanted the player. It shows that Wenger is not sure of his moves. I believe that is because he is over protective of signings rather than admitting something is not working and making the change. In the past David Dein was the one who pushed transfers over of the edge while Wenger dithered. He offered him clear advice that Wenger trusted on players who were not suited or not working the system. Wenger doesn't have that person on the board. Now that Wenger has full control I do not believe he has the ruthlessness to make changes because he is too close to the dressing room. I have said it before, he is too loyal and protective over his foreign players, especially the French.
posted on 21/8/15
I fail to see how bidding for strikers, buying welbeck, playing Theo up front who clearly isn't a striker and is already 26, and playing sanogo in our biggest game of the season shows a love in with giroud.
Giroud is consistent and has a good goal ratio. I don't get why he is so often singled out. He cost ten mil ffs what do people expect.
posted on 21/8/15
What a load of bull.
Benzema is world class. The naysayers would turn out looking silly if he were to join.
Don't think we'll ever see people change their stance as quickly as these clowns would.
posted on 21/8/15
what an ศsshole
posted on 21/8/15
hes not world class
posted on 21/8/15
No comment from my side.... apart that I want to congratulate Someday for his outstanding contribution
posted on 21/8/15
He is world class. It's clear half of you guys don't watch him.
posted on 21/8/15
J99
You are aware the state the club was in under Don Howe?? Maybe a bit of perspective is required.
The constant rhetoric from the naysayers was that Arsenal would never win another trophy under AW. AW has just won back to back FA Cups. He is more than capable of winning major trophies.
He is not perfect and makes mistakes, as do all but he is far from delusional as you believe.
To imply offering a club record transfer fee is no more than “lip service” is absurd. Why would any club pay millions more than a contractual release cause? And as you have suggested nearly £10m more
Nevertheless that is hardly the point, as you alleged AW’s attempts to strengthen the squad were apathetic and some sort of a charade to protect Giroud. A sentiment so farfetched it is difficult to find words to respond to.
posted on 21/8/15
For those saying Walcott isn't proven, do you mean proven like Giroud? Proven he's not good enough over 3 full seasons at CF?
I'm not saying Walcott is the answer but one thing we all know is that Giroud isn't. Ideally we buy a new CF, failing that we try Walcott. Giroud is just repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting a different result.
posted on 21/8/15
Some good reading here, i would guess the answers lay probably in the middle in terms of opinions.
For me, wenger always falls short in his management of producing another title winning Arsenal, not sure if its because now he holds all the cards where as mentioned he had DD before. Im fairly convinced he will never win the league again but id love to be proved wrong.
posted on 21/8/15
To imply offering a club record transfer fee is no more than “lip service” is absurd. Why would any club pay millions more than a contractual release cause? And as you have suggested nearly £10m more
-------------------------------------
And you think in hindsight that was absurd? Because it gets the deal done. As I pointed out they should have taken Liverpool to court if they were going down the route of using a contract technicality. That shows commitment. But he didn't do that instead showed the club was weak. Arsenal did not come out well at all. They became a laughing stock. So much so that JW Henry is giving speeches to MBA schools on how to conduct negotiations.
Nevertheless that is hardly the point, as you alleged AW’s attempts to strengthen the squad were apathetic and some sort of a charade to protect Giroud. A sentiment so farfetched it is difficult to find words to respond to.
----------------------------------
So what what do you think Wenger means when he says he has enough but someone special comes available then he will buy him? Is Giroud enough or not? Either you need a player or you don't. What is the double talk if not to protect the player?
Thats why I said quite clearly if you read back to my comments on this thread. Its very simple. Either you believe you need a striker or you don't. If you believe you do, go and buy one. Don't prevaricate as you have been for the last 3 years. Take the decision and move on. Don't bull sh/t fans. I hope this time he is serious about Benzema. Only he can prove 'how serious' he is.
posted on 21/8/15
comment by Science (U19684)
posted 10 minutes ago
For those saying Walcott isn't proven, do you mean proven like Giroud? Proven he's not good enough over 3 full seasons at CF?
I'm not saying Walcott is the answer but one thing we all know is that Giroud isn't. Ideally we buy a new CF, failing that we try Walcott. Giroud is just repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting a different result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
๐๐๐
posted on 21/8/15
J99
As I am sure you are aware it’s probably best not taking AW media comments as gospel.
You also seem to believe bringing in a world class CF is as simple as shopping in Tesco.
AW may well be serious on buying Benzema. If Madrid refuse to sell, there is little AFC can do. Unless they “get the job done” by offering, say £80m for him?
posted on 21/8/15
You also seem to believe bringing in a world class CF is as simple as shopping in Tesco.
--------------------------
Although its an anonymous forum and you probably won't believe me but I advise on similar size deals all the time. Not in football but the basis is still the same. In any negotiation you need the 'will' to get the deal over the line. Unless you have total belief in the decision you are taking, it will not get off the ground. As an outside observer this is what I have seen from Wenger. And especially in case of Giroud. I genuinely don't think he is sure and has protected him for far too long. Wenger almost needed Henry to spell it out for him. And as I pointed out, Henry is doing his coaching badges with us so I don't think its an isolated opinion at Arsenal.
Now this was my point abt Benzema. If you are sure Giroud is not the answer and believed in the past that Suarez may have been or Higuain may been you don't stop if you can't get them because the basic premise is that 'Giroud is NOT the answer' hasn't changed. You don't stop and sit on you laurels for 3 years! Try other players. Buy other players. Sell Giroud. Its not good for you, or the club or in fact Giroud because you are constantly undermining him by bidding on Suarez, Higuain, Benzema etc.
posted on 21/8/15
J99 the point is we don't need a striker numbers wise but quality wise. Welbeck was hardly top of the list but he was necessary at times last year.
posted on 21/8/15
Tbf if you look over recent times, giroud is probably the best buy wenger has made for CF role, he really has bought some dross.
posted on 21/8/15
Although its an anonymous forum and you probably won't believe me but I advise on similar size deals all the time. Not in football but the basis is still the same. In any negotiation you need the 'will' to get the deal over the line. Unless you have total belief in the decision you are taking, it will not get off the ground.
_______________
No, you're wrong. Football business is completel different. You deal with clubs who have absolute no need to sell. So if the player havent got a buyout clause for example and the club wont sell his player, you cant put in 10M more and get the deal done. United wants Müller and pay over the odds for him...He has no buyout clause (I do believe the player doesnt like to leave his home - only a personal view), so you can pay what you want.....he is not for sale. End of story. Suarez situation was completely different. He had a buyout clause and Wenger wanted him. We all know how we end up.
Page 2 of 3