Well thats why there are so many rumours of unsettled dressing wrong Cleitus. I've also heard rumours that jose is good at getting players to rise to occasions for a year or so but then becomes draining. That could be a factor. Also his reluctance to drop certain players(although he seems to love ridiculing hazard, who should of been given more time then certain players) and mix it up is also affecting the team.

Yesterday we was unlucky on occasions, although I believe the keeper for fabregas stopped once he saw the flag, but we still arnt creating chances or having periods of domination. West Ham could of also had a few more, it's not like last year at Southampton where we battered them, had a stone wall denied and they still won.

Jose is great at at taking someone else's team, getting a boost of siege mentality team spirit, pumping a jillion quid into an already good side for little more than short term gain, then running away when it all looks like it's teetering on the verge of collapse as he forgot to long term plan and his media antics lose their lustre.
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Quite possibly one of the worst posts i have read about Jose on here. It doesn't even make sense. Full of contradictions.

Why would Jose need to pump money into an already built team?

Also what manager doesn't take over as team that is somewhat built already.

Klopp is taking over brendans team. If Klopp makes a few signings and wins a trophy, would Klopp have won with brendans team or would that be classed as his own team?

Even if that were true the last person you could aim that at, is Jose.

Ancelotti is someone who actually does that. Chelsea 2010 was already set up for him and Madrid when they won the 10th champions league title was Mourinho's team. Ancelotti just gave the team a little more freedom.

If what you're saying is true then Pellegrini is riding high off the back of mancinis team
Pep guardiola is using all of jupp heynckes good work for his own gain and Luis Enrique is benefiting from guardiola's good work .

Jose is the best manager to turn a top class squad squad into winners quickly but he's never built a team or had to rebuld a team, has no clue how to develop youth (or just doesn't want to) and creates so much drama and his methods don't work long term. also looks like he is unable to handle the pressue that comes when the team is underperforming.

Mr.C

Strong opinion and correct however:

"If what you're saying is true then Pellegrini is riding high off the back of mancinis team
Pep guardiola is using all of jupp heynckes good work for his own gain and Luis Enrique is benefiting from guardiola's good work .

Those are pretty much what it is, especially in pellegrinis case.
Enrique has had to change the style slightly but its still mostly high pressing and possesion footy barca play(Guardiola style) and Guardiola has only really started to stamp his authority on the munich team

Pellegrini went to City and changed their style straight away to high possession quality attacking football, Jose plays boring football which is ok at the start if he's winning but eventually fans want more, another reason why he doesn't last at clubs.

so changing the style of football means you've built a team up from scratch now?

Mourinho came in and stopped us leaking goals and we started winning more games. That's exactly what Pellegrini did but different style of football.

I think this is the most important test for Jose, he needs to bury this 3rd season hoodoo that hangs over he's head.
I really hope he sticks it out, but something tells me he's either going to get sacked or he'll walk away(i hope im wrong)

I've mentioned it before and i'll say it again, a manager as successful as Jose should never ever get sacked but as mentioned in the OP, Jose's problem is he rubs people off the wrong way.

But that is only tolerable when hes winning but if he's losing its unbearable.

In summary if Jose wasn't such a c_nt, no one would ever sack him and that's the truth

There may have been a little OTT negativity, but the message is a common criticism(s) of him Mr C.

he almost always leaves sides worse than he found them, littered with OAPs with no plan for the future, and he's always inherited sides overstocked with class already.

Again, more than to satisfy curiosity than anything, a lot of people would like to see him go to a side that looks even remotely like a challenge. He's never had to in the top leagues.

And i forgot to add, i think 80% of fans would say Pep is a better manager than Jose, equally as successful and plays positive, attacking football

TKT, there are plenty of criticisms to aim at Jose but the one about him taking over ready made teams, spending a few hundred million is just a silly myth that's being perpetuated by rival fans for years now. They dont even realise the contradiction they're making there.

What manager out there does not use the previous managers team to build their own?

Benitez is using Carlo Ancelotti's team this season.

every manager takes over someone elses team in the beginning, I'm just saying that's all Jose has ever done. He's got his style of football that is hard to beat, can get that siege mentality into teams and can motivate players in the beginningbut he's never proved he has any of the qualities it takes to manager a club for a long time. Pellegrini has those and leaves clubs in a better state instead of the mess Maureen creates.

I don't see the contradiction

he inherits top class teams which should / can win then he blows a mountain of wonga on top as well (not always that effectively in terms of good buys v bad ones either)

they're not mutually exclusive.

Jose is the best manager to turn a top class squad squad into winners quickly but he's never built a team or had to rebuld a team

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So José didn't "build" the Champions League and UEFA Cup winning Porto side that won the treble ?

As for rebuilding that's exactly what José did on his Chelsea return when he turned the team into last season's title winners. The additions of Costa, Matic, Fabregas, Willian etc were the difference in helping us become title winners once again.

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose is the best manager to turn a top class squad squad into winners quickly but he's never built a team or had to rebuld a team, has no clue how to develop youth (or just doesn't want to) and creates so much drama and his methods don't work long term. also looks like he is unable to handle the pressue that comes when the team is underperforming.
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We could have Wenger style manager, and be happy with 4th CL spot trophy every season. I suppose it takes all sorts.

The primary objective for a top manager is to win league trophies.I have yet to come across to a complete manager, who have successfully incorporated all the qualities you mentioned above, in order to achieve the main objective (winning titles), you have to sacrifice some of the qualities.

You could make a case for Sir Alex, but he has managed Man Utd, so we don't how he would have fared managing other sides.

Pep is trying to achieve this at Bayern, in the same way Jose has achieved in other countries to prove himself.

But then we can level that at every manager right? Taking over a top class team, spending money on top and winning trophies that way

In most cases though, those managers who arent Jose, cannot deliver like Jose can.

This isnt something you can aim solely at Jose.

If you want to aim this solely at Jose then all the other managers in the world who are managing top level teams must have started their managerial jobs with a team full of youth academy players.

Jose's biggest issue is that hes an ars_hole

If he was a nicer person, people would be more sympathetic

You would think this experience would humble him, but he's brain cant comprehend humility

Yes mate we heard you the first time, there's no need to repeat it.

comment by HUNTING FOR GLORY (U16317)
posted 6 minutes ago
And i forgot to add, i think 80% of fans would say Pep is a better manager than Jose, equally as successful and plays positive, attacking football
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Has Pep won multiple titles and Champions Leagues around Europe in various competitive leagues ?

No he hasn't. The vast majority of his success came at Barca and when you consider that Luis Enrique just won the treble with Barca it puts Pep's achievement into a slighly less impressive context.

Luis Enrique used all of the good work of Tata Martino though.

comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by HUNTING FOR GLORY (U16317)
posted 6 minutes ago
And i forgot to add, i think 80% of fans would say Pep is a better manager than Jose, equally as successful and plays positive, attacking football
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Has Pep won multiple titles and Champions Leagues around Europe in various competitive leagues ?

No he hasn't. The vast majority of his success came at Barca and when you consider that Luis Enrique just won the treble with Barca it puts Pep's achievement into a slighly less impressive context.

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The irony

Downplaying another managers achievements

Pep is amazing and if Jose leaves Chelsea u would love him to manage ur club

You would at least play better football

It is a criticism you could level at Pellegrini as well.

Their core was basically identical for 4 seasons and he just took the same team and made it more attacking.

I'd say that's more fact than opinion. If he stays a couple more seasons and the new signings become the new core (and win) then he'll get a lot of credit for building a new side.

I don't see that really as a criticism, more a wait and see approach.

Yep. and its one you could aim at Ancelotti.
He's never built any teams. Not after Milan anyway.