And there is a general question around the small pool of managers lucky enough to inherit top players and receive mountainous budgets at sides with huge pulling power in the transfer market.
More a ? than a dig.
comment by Mr Chelsea ✪ (U3579)
posted 5 seconds ago
Yep. and its one you could aim at Ancelotti.
He's never built any teams. Not after Milan anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I also disagree with this not building team nonsense, of course hes built teams, albeit whilst spending a lot of money but that's besides the point
But to label him the best manager in the world is a fallacy. Best short term manager - absolutely
comment by HUNTING FOR GLORY (U16317)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by HUNTING FOR GLORY (U16317)
posted 6 minutes ago
And i forgot to add, i think 80% of fans would say Pep is a better manager than Jose, equally as successful and plays positive, attacking football
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has Pep won multiple titles and Champions Leagues around Europe in various competitive leagues ?
No he hasn't. The vast majority of his success came at Barca and when you consider that Luis Enrique just won the treble with Barca it puts Pep's achievement into a slighly less impressive context.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The irony
Downplaying another managers achievements
Pep is amazing--------------------------------------------------------------------
How is that ironic ? I'm not downplaying Pep's achievements I'm just putting them into context.
He's largely unproven outside of Barca. Ok he's won two titles with Bayern but that's not much more of an achievement than Celtic winning the SPL.
So far he's done little in the Champions League with Bayern and my understanding is that there are quite a few Bayern fans who actually remain slightly unconvinced by him.
Maureen didn't built the Porto side he was only there two years. Winning the CL was an amazing achievement tactically, they had a great squad which was not built by Jose though... managers don't control transfers there.
In his career he's never had to rebuld a team, never gives youth a chance or shown he can unearth talent, or achieved longevity, and there are decent theories as to why his style of management is not suited to doing any of those things.
Where he excels is tactically and motivationally in the beginning. No doubt he is wolrd class manager for the first 3 years but to manage a club long term there's no evidence he will be any good at that.
Buying Costa, Matic, Fabregas for ~100m to add to an already expensive Chelsea squad is not really building a team imo
comment by The Kaiser's Trainers (U5676)
posted 9 minutes ago
I don't see the contradiction
he inherits top class teams which should / can win then he blows a mountain of wonga on top as well (not always that effectively in terms of good buys v bad ones either)
they're not mutually exclusive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You keep repeating yourself dude, despite being proved wrong, it's getting embarrassing now !!
If you're going to wum us, please put the effort
yes we've moved on from that 8bit,
which manager out there though is actually building teams from scratch and winning trophies?
comment by Superb (U6486)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
How is that ironic ? I'm not downplaying Pep's achievements I'm just putting them into context.
He's largely unproven outside of Barca. Ok he's won two titles with Bayern but that's not much more of an achievement than Celtic winning the SPL.
So far he's done little in the Champions League with Bayern and my understanding is that there are quite a few Bayern fans who actually remain slightly unconvinced by him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Largely unproven!!! now i know ur taking p_ss
Jose has 2 champs lge, likewise Pep
Not Pep's fault that he doesn't run away from a club after 3 years
I can equally dismiss Jose's achievement in winning the title in Porto and Italy(with Juve being relegated)
You sound like people that think Ronaldo is better than Messi cos he's been successful in 2 different leagues
I can also say that Pep is better cos he's never been sacked, put that in your context and smoke it
I haven't been proven wrong though have I?
It's his M.O.
There isn't any WUM to it.
Ranieri's side was loaded with class and he went out and got jose Robben and Cech on his way out as a parting gift as well. 3 years later it was a dysfunctional side gutted of it's attacking width playing 4 CM/Dms.
Inter were the best side by a mile because the scandal crippled every side but them. He left left them in the same state of aold age that Fergie left for Moyes.
Real was a success, his biggest to date but at the end of the day, that's a top 2 side on earth and the most prestigious club ever.
Look at you now.
It's a one sided argument that looks at Jose's negatives fair enough, but that's the point of the comment. What questions does his career to date raise? this is the bulk of it.
I want to see him stay somewhere 5 years or leave a aside better than he found it and win a title somewhere where it's not the expectation to win things.
comment by HUNTING FOR GLORY (U16317)
posted 28 minutes ago
And i forgot to add, i think 80% of fans would say Pep is a better manager than Jose, equally as successful and plays positive, attacking football
----------------------------------------------------------------------
equally as succesful? until pep wins a CL with a team like porto he will neverbe
comment by Nickalopodis (U9257)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by HUNTING FOR GLORY (U16317)
posted 28 minutes ago
And i forgot to add, i think 80% of fans would say Pep is a better manager than Jose, equally as successful and plays positive, attacking football
----------------------------------------------------------------------
equally as succesful? until pep wins a CL with a team like porto he will neverbe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SAF never won champs lge with a team like Porto but we all know he was a better manager
Disagree, I believe Wengie is the bestest, he has managed to maintain Arsenal's CL spot for the past 11 years on a shoestring budget
most managers are with clubs in different situations to Jose.. Porto, Chelsea, Inter, Real, Chelsea again should all have been winning titles with the squads and finances they had anyway and Jose is excellent at getting them to win it. Pel at Villarreal and Malaga had to do more to build up the squad at keep progressing. Jose is obviously a better manager than Moyes but he couldn't do what Moyes did at Everton to survive on a shoestring budget and progress year after year because Jose's style is not about that. He doesn't prepare for the future so it's no surprise when things don't work out after the initial success.
yeah but you're not answering the question i asked...
What managers out there right now are building teams from scratch and winning titles?
My point is every top manager out there is taking over teams that have built up by the previous manager already, adding quality to it and winning titles. Jose is not the only one doing this.
There's not many because it's a hard thing to do, Klopp's done it recently, LVG has done it in the past, Wenger's done it (and will do it again ) Jose is the one who said he wanted to stay for a long time when he came back to Chelsea. There's other managers who haven't done that as well but Jose is probably one of the worst managers to try and achieve longevity at a club.
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
most managers are with clubs in different situations to Jose.. Porto, Chelsea, Inter, Real, Chelsea again should all have been winning titles with the squads and finances they had anyway and Jose is excellent at getting them to win it. Pel at Villarreal and Malaga had to do more to build up the squad at keep progressing. Jose is obviously a better manager than Moyes but he couldn't do what Moyes did at Everton to survive on a shoestring budget and progress year after year because Jose's style is not about that. He doesn't prepare for the future so it's no surprise when things don't work out after the initial success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Were Chelsea, Porto, Inter and Real champions ? No. Did they look like winning titles prior to Jose taking their sides ? No !!
As Mr C pointed out, no manager has succeeded in building a winning side from the scratch, whilst managing in different places.
Who is to say that if Jose survives this season's slump goes on to win more titles with Chelsea for years to come !! We can only speculate at the moment, but even if does , people will find other excuses to downplay his achievement.
comment by Cleitus (U16190)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
most managers are with clubs in different situations to Jose.. Porto, Chelsea, Inter, Real, Chelsea again should all have been winning titles with the squads and finances they had anyway and Jose is excellent at getting them to win it. Pel at Villarreal and Malaga had to do more to build up the squad at keep progressing. Jose is obviously a better manager than Moyes but he couldn't do what Moyes did at Everton to survive on a shoestring budget and progress year after year because Jose's style is not about that. He doesn't prepare for the future so it's no surprise when things don't work out after the initial success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Were Chelsea, Porto, Inter and Real champions ? No. Did they look like winning titles prior to Jose taking their sides ? No !!
As Mr C pointed out, no manager has succeeded in building a winning side from the scratch, whilst managing in different places.
Who is to say that if Jose survives this season's slump goes on to win more titles with Chelsea for years to come !! We can only speculate at the moment, but even if does , people will find other excuses to downplay his achievement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I really hope he does survive, but if he doesnt then unfortunately the 3rd season syndrome would have been proved and whether u choose to admit it or not, lack of longevity would be a valid reason to dispel any claims of him being the best
Who is to say that if Jose survives this season's slump goes on to win more titles with Chelsea for years to come !! We can only speculate at the moment, but even if does , people will find other excuses to downplay his achievement.
------
he may well do that, but all the evidence suggest he is not capable of doing it.
really hope he does survive, but if he doesnt then unfortunately the 3rd season syndrome would have been proved
----------------------------------
In Jose's third season at Chelsea in his first stint we won the FA Cup as well as the League Cup, not to mention finished second only to Fergie's Utd in a season with a lot of injuries from what I remember.
I don't think Mourinho has done anything most other half decent managers wouldn't have managed at Madrid and Chelsea (second stint). He is certainly not indispensable and while I don't think he should be sacked right now if we end this season as badly as we've started he should be gone like any other manager would be.
Mourinho should have plenty of credit in the bank with regards to job safety.But his behaviour is such that it seems that he doesn't really want to be there.
Would be good to see him stick around and try and turn things around. Lets see what he's really made of. He's the manager that's got Chelsea into this situation, its only right he should be given a good stint to try and turn things around.
But its a new situation for him, one that he looks totally uncomfortable with and unprepared for.
Rival fans are afraid of Jose, because he is winner. I am not surprised Chelsea have accumulated lots of haters due to their success over the years.
yet we all liked Ancelotti and he won.
Rival fans are afraid of Jose, because he is winner.
---------------------------------------------
Not much evidence of that at the moment is there? I don't think hate is the right word. Dislike maybe (personally I'm fine with him), but that's down to his antics rather than people not liking him because of what he's won.
He's really chucking the toys out of the pram though during this bad run though.
People liked Wenger when he won. Same with Ancelotti. Same with Mancini. Same with Pellegrini. Pep has man love in abundance.
The reality is that it's not if you win, it's if you're a complete tw@t before, during and after you win (basically you were born a complete tw@t) like Fergie and Jose.
Jose is not alone, other managers complains and moan, just as much if not worse, but only Jose gets it on the neck.
Perhaps you can explain to me how Sir Alex has never been a controversy figure in his managerial career.
Sign in if you want to comment
Jose is the best manager
Page 3 of 4
posted on 25/10/15
And there is a general question around the small pool of managers lucky enough to inherit top players and receive mountainous budgets at sides with huge pulling power in the transfer market.
More a ? than a dig.
posted on 25/10/15
comment by Mr Chelsea ✪ (U3579)
posted 5 seconds ago
Yep. and its one you could aim at Ancelotti.
He's never built any teams. Not after Milan anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I also disagree with this not building team nonsense, of course hes built teams, albeit whilst spending a lot of money but that's besides the point
But to label him the best manager in the world is a fallacy. Best short term manager - absolutely
posted on 25/10/15
comment by HUNTING FOR GLORY (U16317)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by HUNTING FOR GLORY (U16317)
posted 6 minutes ago
And i forgot to add, i think 80% of fans would say Pep is a better manager than Jose, equally as successful and plays positive, attacking football
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has Pep won multiple titles and Champions Leagues around Europe in various competitive leagues ?
No he hasn't. The vast majority of his success came at Barca and when you consider that Luis Enrique just won the treble with Barca it puts Pep's achievement into a slighly less impressive context.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The irony
Downplaying another managers achievements
Pep is amazing--------------------------------------------------------------------
How is that ironic ? I'm not downplaying Pep's achievements I'm just putting them into context.
He's largely unproven outside of Barca. Ok he's won two titles with Bayern but that's not much more of an achievement than Celtic winning the SPL.
So far he's done little in the Champions League with Bayern and my understanding is that there are quite a few Bayern fans who actually remain slightly unconvinced by him.
posted on 25/10/15
Maureen didn't built the Porto side he was only there two years. Winning the CL was an amazing achievement tactically, they had a great squad which was not built by Jose though... managers don't control transfers there.
In his career he's never had to rebuld a team, never gives youth a chance or shown he can unearth talent, or achieved longevity, and there are decent theories as to why his style of management is not suited to doing any of those things.
Where he excels is tactically and motivationally in the beginning. No doubt he is wolrd class manager for the first 3 years but to manage a club long term there's no evidence he will be any good at that.
Buying Costa, Matic, Fabregas for ~100m to add to an already expensive Chelsea squad is not really building a team imo
posted on 25/10/15
comment by The Kaiser's Trainers (U5676)
posted 9 minutes ago
I don't see the contradiction
he inherits top class teams which should / can win then he blows a mountain of wonga on top as well (not always that effectively in terms of good buys v bad ones either)
they're not mutually exclusive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You keep repeating yourself dude, despite being proved wrong, it's getting embarrassing now !!
If you're going to wum us, please put the effort
posted on 25/10/15
yes we've moved on from that 8bit,
which manager out there though is actually building teams from scratch and winning trophies?
posted on 25/10/15
comment by Superb (U6486)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
How is that ironic ? I'm not downplaying Pep's achievements I'm just putting them into context.
He's largely unproven outside of Barca. Ok he's won two titles with Bayern but that's not much more of an achievement than Celtic winning the SPL.
So far he's done little in the Champions League with Bayern and my understanding is that there are quite a few Bayern fans who actually remain slightly unconvinced by him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Largely unproven!!! now i know ur taking p_ss
Jose has 2 champs lge, likewise Pep
Not Pep's fault that he doesn't run away from a club after 3 years
I can equally dismiss Jose's achievement in winning the title in Porto and Italy(with Juve being relegated)
You sound like people that think Ronaldo is better than Messi cos he's been successful in 2 different leagues
I can also say that Pep is better cos he's never been sacked, put that in your context and smoke it
posted on 25/10/15
I haven't been proven wrong though have I?
It's his M.O.
There isn't any WUM to it.
Ranieri's side was loaded with class and he went out and got jose Robben and Cech on his way out as a parting gift as well. 3 years later it was a dysfunctional side gutted of it's attacking width playing 4 CM/Dms.
Inter were the best side by a mile because the scandal crippled every side but them. He left left them in the same state of aold age that Fergie left for Moyes.
Real was a success, his biggest to date but at the end of the day, that's a top 2 side on earth and the most prestigious club ever.
Look at you now.
It's a one sided argument that looks at Jose's negatives fair enough, but that's the point of the comment. What questions does his career to date raise? this is the bulk of it.
I want to see him stay somewhere 5 years or leave a aside better than he found it and win a title somewhere where it's not the expectation to win things.
posted on 25/10/15
comment by HUNTING FOR GLORY (U16317)
posted 28 minutes ago
And i forgot to add, i think 80% of fans would say Pep is a better manager than Jose, equally as successful and plays positive, attacking football
----------------------------------------------------------------------
equally as succesful? until pep wins a CL with a team like porto he will neverbe
posted on 25/10/15
comment by Nickalopodis (U9257)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by HUNTING FOR GLORY (U16317)
posted 28 minutes ago
And i forgot to add, i think 80% of fans would say Pep is a better manager than Jose, equally as successful and plays positive, attacking football
----------------------------------------------------------------------
equally as succesful? until pep wins a CL with a team like porto he will neverbe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SAF never won champs lge with a team like Porto but we all know he was a better manager
posted on 25/10/15
Disagree, I believe Wengie is the bestest, he has managed to maintain Arsenal's CL spot for the past 11 years on a shoestring budget
posted on 25/10/15
most managers are with clubs in different situations to Jose.. Porto, Chelsea, Inter, Real, Chelsea again should all have been winning titles with the squads and finances they had anyway and Jose is excellent at getting them to win it. Pel at Villarreal and Malaga had to do more to build up the squad at keep progressing. Jose is obviously a better manager than Moyes but he couldn't do what Moyes did at Everton to survive on a shoestring budget and progress year after year because Jose's style is not about that. He doesn't prepare for the future so it's no surprise when things don't work out after the initial success.
posted on 25/10/15
yeah but you're not answering the question i asked...
What managers out there right now are building teams from scratch and winning titles?
My point is every top manager out there is taking over teams that have built up by the previous manager already, adding quality to it and winning titles. Jose is not the only one doing this.
posted on 25/10/15
There's not many because it's a hard thing to do, Klopp's done it recently, LVG has done it in the past, Wenger's done it (and will do it again ) Jose is the one who said he wanted to stay for a long time when he came back to Chelsea. There's other managers who haven't done that as well but Jose is probably one of the worst managers to try and achieve longevity at a club.
posted on 25/10/15
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
most managers are with clubs in different situations to Jose.. Porto, Chelsea, Inter, Real, Chelsea again should all have been winning titles with the squads and finances they had anyway and Jose is excellent at getting them to win it. Pel at Villarreal and Malaga had to do more to build up the squad at keep progressing. Jose is obviously a better manager than Moyes but he couldn't do what Moyes did at Everton to survive on a shoestring budget and progress year after year because Jose's style is not about that. He doesn't prepare for the future so it's no surprise when things don't work out after the initial success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Were Chelsea, Porto, Inter and Real champions ? No. Did they look like winning titles prior to Jose taking their sides ? No !!
As Mr C pointed out, no manager has succeeded in building a winning side from the scratch, whilst managing in different places.
Who is to say that if Jose survives this season's slump goes on to win more titles with Chelsea for years to come !! We can only speculate at the moment, but even if does , people will find other excuses to downplay his achievement.
posted on 25/10/15
comment by Cleitus (U16190)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
most managers are with clubs in different situations to Jose.. Porto, Chelsea, Inter, Real, Chelsea again should all have been winning titles with the squads and finances they had anyway and Jose is excellent at getting them to win it. Pel at Villarreal and Malaga had to do more to build up the squad at keep progressing. Jose is obviously a better manager than Moyes but he couldn't do what Moyes did at Everton to survive on a shoestring budget and progress year after year because Jose's style is not about that. He doesn't prepare for the future so it's no surprise when things don't work out after the initial success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Were Chelsea, Porto, Inter and Real champions ? No. Did they look like winning titles prior to Jose taking their sides ? No !!
As Mr C pointed out, no manager has succeeded in building a winning side from the scratch, whilst managing in different places.
Who is to say that if Jose survives this season's slump goes on to win more titles with Chelsea for years to come !! We can only speculate at the moment, but even if does , people will find other excuses to downplay his achievement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I really hope he does survive, but if he doesnt then unfortunately the 3rd season syndrome would have been proved and whether u choose to admit it or not, lack of longevity would be a valid reason to dispel any claims of him being the best
posted on 25/10/15
Who is to say that if Jose survives this season's slump goes on to win more titles with Chelsea for years to come !! We can only speculate at the moment, but even if does , people will find other excuses to downplay his achievement.
------
he may well do that, but all the evidence suggest he is not capable of doing it.
posted on 25/10/15
really hope he does survive, but if he doesnt then unfortunately the 3rd season syndrome would have been proved
----------------------------------
In Jose's third season at Chelsea in his first stint we won the FA Cup as well as the League Cup, not to mention finished second only to Fergie's Utd in a season with a lot of injuries from what I remember.
posted on 25/10/15
I don't think Mourinho has done anything most other half decent managers wouldn't have managed at Madrid and Chelsea (second stint). He is certainly not indispensable and while I don't think he should be sacked right now if we end this season as badly as we've started he should be gone like any other manager would be.
posted on 25/10/15
Mourinho should have plenty of credit in the bank with regards to job safety.But his behaviour is such that it seems that he doesn't really want to be there.
Would be good to see him stick around and try and turn things around. Lets see what he's really made of. He's the manager that's got Chelsea into this situation, its only right he should be given a good stint to try and turn things around.
But its a new situation for him, one that he looks totally uncomfortable with and unprepared for.
posted on 25/10/15
Rival fans are afraid of Jose, because he is winner. I am not surprised Chelsea have accumulated lots of haters due to their success over the years.
posted on 25/10/15
yet we all liked Ancelotti and he won.
posted on 25/10/15
Rival fans are afraid of Jose, because he is winner.
---------------------------------------------
Not much evidence of that at the moment is there? I don't think hate is the right word. Dislike maybe (personally I'm fine with him), but that's down to his antics rather than people not liking him because of what he's won.
He's really chucking the toys out of the pram though during this bad run though.
posted on 25/10/15
People liked Wenger when he won. Same with Ancelotti. Same with Mancini. Same with Pellegrini. Pep has man love in abundance.
The reality is that it's not if you win, it's if you're a complete tw@t before, during and after you win (basically you were born a complete tw@t) like Fergie and Jose.
posted on 25/10/15
Jose is not alone, other managers complains and moan, just as much if not worse, but only Jose gets it on the neck.
Perhaps you can explain to me how Sir Alex has never been a controversy figure in his managerial career.
Page 3 of 4