I hope so. I think this movie could have done with one or two flashbacks, even just brief ones to better fill us in on what happened and more importantly what went wrong in the last 30 years for the Rebellion.
It is supposed to take elements from a new hope, but take away these similarities and you have an amazing film.
---------------------------------------------------
Why does it need to take so many elements from A New Hope though? I've seen that movie a million times. I want something new and fresh which is exactly what A New Hope was in it's day.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Pretty what Guv said the new hope stuff isnt meant for you....so stop being soooo greedy
Yeah agree that I definitely need to watch it again and I fully understand the need for Disney to keep their four billion dollar investment safe but as a fan it just left me a little disappointed that they did because I'm interested in the movie not the money.
We've already seen things like the Death Star get attacked and blown up in A New Hope and in ROTJ for that matter. I just didn't need to see it happen for a third time in four movies.
Also it wasn't just the repetition that bothered me it was the plot holes as well of which there were many. What on earth was Luke's lightsaber doing unlocked and unprotected in the basement of Maz Kanata's bar where any scavenger could have simply crept in and taken it?
Also regarding unanswered questions in A New Hope at least there were always going to be three prequels to address and answer those questions.
Are we going to get a movie or maybe more to answer all the many questions we have about what actually took place between Episode 6 and 7 seeing as so few of them were actually answered in this movie?
Hopefully it doesn't appear that I'm hating on this movie as there was a lot to be entertained by when watching it and I look forward to the sequels. I just have issues with it though.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
My gripe was more to do with why an object of such importance was left in such an easy place to steal and only feet away from a collection of what appear to be the worst kind of scavengers and thieves in the galaxy.
There's many a discussion to be had regarding TFA...
I was having one yesterday, when a point was made.
Which is one I'd agree with.
JJ may have ticked all the boxes, but a true standout moment, it didn't have. I'm including Han Solo scene.
It did have a lot of great little moments, that helped us warm to these new characters, but just not that definitive moment.
As much as people want to dismiss the prequels, well, you just can't.... now, we will see the world from a fans point of view rather than the creator... Say what you will about old George Lucas, but he has a wild imagination.
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Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by The Guvnor IV -Iron sharpens Iron--- 48-0 (U12889)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
What on earth was Luke's lightsaber doing unlocked and unprotected in the basement of Maz Kanata's bar where any scavenger could have simply crept in and taken it?
____________________________
They've still got two more movies left, this is a trivial plot hole which could easily be explained in the next movie. Luke could ask rey how she got his saber, rey tells him from Maz, and Luke confirms that he left it with her for what ever reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While I agree that this 'plot hole' is a little trivial due to there being a couple more movies to get to, but it's worth noting that this is the lightsabre that was lost when Luke's hand was chopped off in Cloud City. That was Anakin's lightsabre earleir.
Lukes Lightsabe was of course, green, so for this blue one to show up is a fairly extraordinary.
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Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by The Guvnor IV -Iron sharpens Iron--- 48-0 (U12889)
posted 3 minutes ago
If we are talking plot holes the main ones for me are:
How Renn turned to the darkside?
How Rey can use her force abilities immediately?
Why didn't they mourn Solo?
How did Renn get Vaders helmet?
Is Snoke darth Plaguesis?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don;t think they can really be called plot holes yet though. We are only 1/3rd of the way through this trilogy. Plot holes for me are more issues that have not and will not be resolved. Errors in film making more often.
As for Luke tracking down his old lightsabre, I mean it could happen I suppose. Just seems far fetched that he would be able go back to cloud city and track it down.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
btw, in regards to plot holes, there were minor gripes, and as been said, will be explained in further movies.
Rey and Renns story being the major one.
for me though, the motive for the first order and the state of the galaxy wasn't fully fleshed out.
Mourning Han?... maybe they could've been a bit more reflective, but Kenobi didn't get a Funeral, but was briefly talked about.
they won't forget Han.
It's all pointing towards Snoke being Plaguesis.
I don't know why people moaning about his size in the hologram?..
What about the Emperor in Empire strikes back?....
i don't see the problem...
for me though, the motive for the first order and the state of the galaxy wasn't fully fleshed out.
---------------------------------------------
It wasn't really touched on at all. As I said before I knew as much about the First Order leaving the cinema as I did going in.
Also why the Rebellion went from what seemed like a total victory that caused mass celebrations on many different planets in the galaxy at the end of ROTJ to a beat up band of Rebels at the beginning of this movie wasn't really explained either.
How and why did everything go so spectacularly badly for the Rebellion in that 30 year gap?
What made A New Hope so popular was its ability to tell a story without giving too much of the detail.
Think back to when Obi-Wan talks to Luke about his father - Alls we were told is that he was murdered by Darth Vader.
Dialogue like this allows your brain to conjure up theories and to speculate which is exactly what the Star Wars universe is all about.
I'd hate to watch a Star Wars film that gave you every detail about the galaxy and everyones motives.
How Renn turned to the darkside?
How Rey can use her force abilities immediately?
Why didn't they mourn Solo?
How did Renn get Vaders helmet?
Is Snoke darth Plaguesis?
---------
You really wanted to know why Ren turned to the Darkside? I think it's far more exciting not knowing.
Reys force abilities can be explained in two ways. Firstly, she may have been born strong in the force (just as Anakin was). Secondly, the vision scene tells me that her early years were spent with Jedi so she'd probably had basic training.
They did mourn Solo. There was a scene where Leia and Chewie are sitting around looking down/lost just before the other rush in with R2s map.
I personally like the idea that we don't know how or why Ren has Vaders mask.
Is Snoke actually Plagueis? Who knows, but this surely isn't a plothole.
What mass celebrations Superb? We see a few cheers from rebel controlled planets and a vader bbq with teddy bears.
And what exactly did we know about the empire? Even after return we knew nothing, remember we have had 3 more films talking some what about the rise of the empire, as well as 3 decades of god knows how many books, games, cartoons etc.
Also what is so difficult to imagine to go from the empire to new order? You think the empire would just collapse without 2 people? You are told in the original films the empire is millìons of planets and thousands of systems were as the rebels are a handful of planets at best. Remember Sidious corrupts the council from the inside, gets the council to make his troops, and puts his people in place and does this for what 30ish years.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Like Guv says and what the film suggests is there is a bit of a status quo,the rebels were able to get control of the council back without palpatine. But the Empire were still a huge force in the galaxy. And Leia was basically the head of the gorilla forces conducting a covert war against the order.
What should be interesting is the first starkiller attack is basically an act of war, so we should see a different setting as well.
What mass celebrations Superb? We see a few cheers from rebel controlled planets and a vader bbq with teddy bears.
------------------------------------------------
Whatever way you want to spin it the celebrations at the end of ROTJ implied a huge victory and the end of an era, especially after George Lucas added even more celebration scenes.
We even get the force ghost appearances of Yoda, Anakin and Obi Wan all together and smiling etc suggesting that something monumental has just happened.
My main question is how have we gone from that euphoria at the end of ROTJ to the Rebellion now in absolute tatters and the Empire reborn as the First Order?
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posted on 28/12/15
I hope so. I think this movie could have done with one or two flashbacks, even just brief ones to better fill us in on what happened and more importantly what went wrong in the last 30 years for the Rebellion.
posted on 28/12/15
It is supposed to take elements from a new hope, but take away these similarities and you have an amazing film.
---------------------------------------------------
Why does it need to take so many elements from A New Hope though? I've seen that movie a million times. I want something new and fresh which is exactly what A New Hope was in it's day.
posted on 28/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/12/15
Pretty what Guv said the new hope stuff isnt meant for you....so stop being soooo greedy
posted on 28/12/15
Yeah agree that I definitely need to watch it again and I fully understand the need for Disney to keep their four billion dollar investment safe but as a fan it just left me a little disappointed that they did because I'm interested in the movie not the money.
We've already seen things like the Death Star get attacked and blown up in A New Hope and in ROTJ for that matter. I just didn't need to see it happen for a third time in four movies.
Also it wasn't just the repetition that bothered me it was the plot holes as well of which there were many. What on earth was Luke's lightsaber doing unlocked and unprotected in the basement of Maz Kanata's bar where any scavenger could have simply crept in and taken it?
Also regarding unanswered questions in A New Hope at least there were always going to be three prequels to address and answer those questions.
Are we going to get a movie or maybe more to answer all the many questions we have about what actually took place between Episode 6 and 7 seeing as so few of them were actually answered in this movie?
Hopefully it doesn't appear that I'm hating on this movie as there was a lot to be entertained by when watching it and I look forward to the sequels. I just have issues with it though.
posted on 28/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/12/15
My gripe was more to do with why an object of such importance was left in such an easy place to steal and only feet away from a collection of what appear to be the worst kind of scavengers and thieves in the galaxy.
posted on 28/12/15
There's many a discussion to be had regarding TFA...
I was having one yesterday, when a point was made.
Which is one I'd agree with.
JJ may have ticked all the boxes, but a true standout moment, it didn't have. I'm including Han Solo scene.
It did have a lot of great little moments, that helped us warm to these new characters, but just not that definitive moment.
As much as people want to dismiss the prequels, well, you just can't.... now, we will see the world from a fans point of view rather than the creator... Say what you will about old George Lucas, but he has a wild imagination.
posted on 28/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/12/15
comment by The Guvnor IV -Iron sharpens Iron--- 48-0 (U12889)
posted 2 hours, 44 minutes ago
What on earth was Luke's lightsaber doing unlocked and unprotected in the basement of Maz Kanata's bar where any scavenger could have simply crept in and taken it?
____________________________
They've still got two more movies left, this is a trivial plot hole which could easily be explained in the next movie. Luke could ask rey how she got his saber, rey tells him from Maz, and Luke confirms that he left it with her for what ever reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While I agree that this 'plot hole' is a little trivial due to there being a couple more movies to get to, but it's worth noting that this is the lightsabre that was lost when Luke's hand was chopped off in Cloud City. That was Anakin's lightsabre earleir.
Lukes Lightsabe was of course, green, so for this blue one to show up is a fairly extraordinary.
posted on 28/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/12/15
comment by The Guvnor IV -Iron sharpens Iron--- 48-0 (U12889)
posted 3 minutes ago
If we are talking plot holes the main ones for me are:
How Renn turned to the darkside?
How Rey can use her force abilities immediately?
Why didn't they mourn Solo?
How did Renn get Vaders helmet?
Is Snoke darth Plaguesis?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don;t think they can really be called plot holes yet though. We are only 1/3rd of the way through this trilogy. Plot holes for me are more issues that have not and will not be resolved. Errors in film making more often.
As for Luke tracking down his old lightsabre, I mean it could happen I suppose. Just seems far fetched that he would be able go back to cloud city and track it down.
posted on 28/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/12/15
btw, in regards to plot holes, there were minor gripes, and as been said, will be explained in further movies.
Rey and Renns story being the major one.
for me though, the motive for the first order and the state of the galaxy wasn't fully fleshed out.
Mourning Han?... maybe they could've been a bit more reflective, but Kenobi didn't get a Funeral, but was briefly talked about.
they won't forget Han.
It's all pointing towards Snoke being Plaguesis.
I don't know why people moaning about his size in the hologram?..
What about the Emperor in Empire strikes back?....
i don't see the problem...
posted on 29/12/15
for me though, the motive for the first order and the state of the galaxy wasn't fully fleshed out.
---------------------------------------------
It wasn't really touched on at all. As I said before I knew as much about the First Order leaving the cinema as I did going in.
Also why the Rebellion went from what seemed like a total victory that caused mass celebrations on many different planets in the galaxy at the end of ROTJ to a beat up band of Rebels at the beginning of this movie wasn't really explained either.
How and why did everything go so spectacularly badly for the Rebellion in that 30 year gap?
posted on 29/12/15
What made A New Hope so popular was its ability to tell a story without giving too much of the detail.
Think back to when Obi-Wan talks to Luke about his father - Alls we were told is that he was murdered by Darth Vader.
Dialogue like this allows your brain to conjure up theories and to speculate which is exactly what the Star Wars universe is all about.
I'd hate to watch a Star Wars film that gave you every detail about the galaxy and everyones motives.
posted on 29/12/15
How Renn turned to the darkside?
How Rey can use her force abilities immediately?
Why didn't they mourn Solo?
How did Renn get Vaders helmet?
Is Snoke darth Plaguesis?
---------
You really wanted to know why Ren turned to the Darkside? I think it's far more exciting not knowing.
Reys force abilities can be explained in two ways. Firstly, she may have been born strong in the force (just as Anakin was). Secondly, the vision scene tells me that her early years were spent with Jedi so she'd probably had basic training.
They did mourn Solo. There was a scene where Leia and Chewie are sitting around looking down/lost just before the other rush in with R2s map.
I personally like the idea that we don't know how or why Ren has Vaders mask.
Is Snoke actually Plagueis? Who knows, but this surely isn't a plothole.
posted on 29/12/15
What mass celebrations Superb? We see a few cheers from rebel controlled planets and a vader bbq with teddy bears.
And what exactly did we know about the empire? Even after return we knew nothing, remember we have had 3 more films talking some what about the rise of the empire, as well as 3 decades of god knows how many books, games, cartoons etc.
Also what is so difficult to imagine to go from the empire to new order? You think the empire would just collapse without 2 people? You are told in the original films the empire is millìons of planets and thousands of systems were as the rebels are a handful of planets at best. Remember Sidious corrupts the council from the inside, gets the council to make his troops, and puts his people in place and does this for what 30ish years.
posted on 29/12/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/12/15
Like Guv says and what the film suggests is there is a bit of a status quo,the rebels were able to get control of the council back without palpatine. But the Empire were still a huge force in the galaxy. And Leia was basically the head of the gorilla forces conducting a covert war against the order.
posted on 29/12/15
What should be interesting is the first starkiller attack is basically an act of war, so we should see a different setting as well.
posted on 30/12/15
What mass celebrations Superb? We see a few cheers from rebel controlled planets and a vader bbq with teddy bears.
------------------------------------------------
Whatever way you want to spin it the celebrations at the end of ROTJ implied a huge victory and the end of an era, especially after George Lucas added even more celebration scenes.
We even get the force ghost appearances of Yoda, Anakin and Obi Wan all together and smiling etc suggesting that something monumental has just happened.
My main question is how have we gone from that euphoria at the end of ROTJ to the Rebellion now in absolute tatters and the Empire reborn as the First Order?
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