You said I had manipulated it I asked how
You haven't said.

I also don't know what the rules of engagement are for the UK / US military in order to compare with your rulebook

comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Paul Robbga (U20351)
posted 3 minutes ago
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-religion-chief-says-it-is-wrong-to-suggest-isis-has-nothing-to-do-with-islam-a7060871.html

Kung Fu, what are your views on this
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Robb that article doesn't include one bit of islamic evidence to say that it is Islamic. It's just a bloke saying it is Islamic and is totally inaccurate in places.

For example, he says they are all Muslims..... no they aren't. It has already been proven that the people at the top are secularists from Saddams old Baath party.

He might want to explain why these people seem to be drinking alcohol and schagging birds before and after "holy" missions.
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He's not just anyone. He's one of the most powerful Muslims in the country

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Paul Robbga (U20351)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Paul Robbga (U20351)
posted 3 minutes ago
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-religion-chief-says-it-is-wrong-to-suggest-isis-has-nothing-to-do-with-islam-a7060871.html

Kung Fu, what are your views on this
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Robb that article doesn't include one bit of islamic evidence to say that it is Islamic. It's just a bloke saying it is Islamic and is totally inaccurate in places.

For example, he says they are all Muslims..... no they aren't. It has already been proven that the people at the top are secularists from Saddams old Baath party.

He might want to explain why these people seem to be drinking alcohol and schagging birds before and after "holy" missions.
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He's not just anyone. He's one of the most powerful Muslims in the country
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No he isn't, he just has a nice job with the BBC, he certainly isn't recognised as an authority in the Muslim community in England.

Titles don't mean anything in this regard without any proof anyway.

Robb you talk about science and relying on evidence all the time. Show some empirical evidence.

What do you make of Robert P@pes research confirming that terrorism is political.

It's in my lengthy response 3/4 pages back.

comment by Reddevilsdouble - give peace a chance (U12215)
posted 25 minutes ago
You said I had manipulated it I asked how
You haven't said.

I also don't know what the rules of engagement are for the UK / US military in order to compare with your rulebook
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes you did and I said...


"The word guidance!

It clearly isn't open for interpretation, everything Islamic is just guidance and you have the free will to chose the correct path or wrong path."

All you need to know about rule book is that western rules allow for the killing of civilians with weapons like nukes and if you give up you are transferred to a shady prison like Guantanamo.

In Islam you can only kill MEN of FIGHTING AGE, indiscriminate weapons (nukes) are therefore forbidden.

Don't forget our PM just said she wouldn't hesitate to drop a nuke on civilians.

Which one sounds more merciful?

I might have to give up here and do some work. Later on maybe.

comment by Admin1 (U1)
posted 1 hour, 27 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Admin1 (U1)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Curly - Warburton isHe wears an OMNIPOTENT 🎩(U1103)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Curly - Warburton isHe wears an OMNIPOTENT 🎩(U1103)
posted 26 minutes ago
I cannot disagree with that MUDD
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Thanks for reading Curly, think RDD reported the post to the admins so it is gone.

It is a shame though it was some of the best stuff I've ever written here.
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I don't really understand why it was pulled as it was in no way offensive to anyone



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Was this bit: "It is unfortunate that people like RDD do not consider them human"

Means my hand pretty much gets forced when a complaint comes in. Definitely more indirect ways of making points without stating perceived views of poster X or Y.

Eg "It is unfortunate that some seem to... "


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Fair enough admin 1

Cam it be retrieved and I amend?
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I'll email you it later tonight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks

email address - sexayitalianstud@imsohot.com

Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* -

Thank you for your response. I believe that a Hadith is only considered authentic if it has a strong chain or narrators and that many Hadith's are considered weak or even fabricated. However, it isn’t difficult to find unpleasant material even in some stronger Hadith which many Muslims around the world take very seriously. Much of Sharia I believe comes from the Hadith and it plays an important role in Islamic study. We can't discard them since they are required to understand the life of Muhammad and Islamic history.

I've tended to notice Muslims using Hadith if it were to show Islam in a positive light, but reject authentic Hadith if the text is of a more disturbing nature.
This is where IS and groups of a similar ilk can play around with the text and justify their actions.

I'm aware though that some Muslims are Quranist's but they are in the minority.

Kung fu - I read your post with interest and I thank you for taking the time to write it. I don't have the knowledge to respond to it, the only books I have read re: Islam is one that is critical so can't be used as a appropriate reference point. I'd welcome if you can suggest anything that offers a scholarly overview of the Koran?

I will make the point that there do seem to be different interpretations around about one of the verses you quoted (only looked at the one verse out of curiosity to verify sources and because it is commonly quoted and I haven't looked at the others). These websites:

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2010/05/quran-532-nazam-and-neglecting-context.html

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/If_Anyone_Slew_a_Person

suggest that the quote you have given is out of context and doesn't exist.

"It clearly isn't open for interpretation, everything Islamic is just guidance and you have the free will to chose the correct path or wrong path."

All you need to know about rule book is that western rules allow for the killing of civilians with weapons like nukes and if you give up you are transferred to a shady prison like Guantanamo.

In Islam you can only kill MEN of FIGHTING AGE, indiscriminate weapons (nukes) are therefore forbidden.

Don't forget our PM just said she wouldn't hesitate to drop a nuke on civilians.

Which one sounds more merciful?"

Addressing the points you then make above:

1. Pakistan is a nuclear power, there is suggested evidence that Iran was looking to become one. How can Muslims within those non-secular countries (including its rulers) justify having weapons they 'cannot' use?

2. 'Western' rules of engagement (at a soldier/unit level) will not differ too much from here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_engagement#/media/File:Operation_Provide_Relief.Rules_of_Engagement.jpg . Can be summed up as appropriate force really.

At a government level, I agree with you, the engagement of the country in wars which it should not enter is if not illegal, wrong. I think previously you have advocated for not getting involved in situations for Iraq/Afghanistan and I tend to agree with you. However I think the point between national governmental rules of engagement (however loose they are) and individual RoE should be made. At the level of the individual, are they not the same in terms of 'mercy' (removing the hyperbole) - ie appropriate force?

3. From the development of nuclear weapons after the second world war (the US, not other western powers is the only country to drop a nuclear weapon) nuclear weapons have clearly been intended as deterrent (defensive) not a first strike weapon so hardly "western rules allow for the killing of civilians with weapons like nukes "

4. You are misrepresenting May's words. That may not be your fault. See here (headline)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/politics-live-theresa-may-first-appearance-commons-parliament-prime-minister-trident-latest-updates-a7142736.html

and then where it comes from:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-trident-debate-nuclear-bomb-yes-live-latest-news-a7143386.html

Terrible journalism. I am happy to be corrected if this is true and she has said this (about not hesitating) but I think her context in the remark she gave was that she would be decisive if necessary (not that she wouldn't hesitate).

I think you're a genuine poster but if you are giving disingenuous replies then I think you undermine yourself.

comment by Reddevilsdouble - give peace a chance (U12215)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
"You remind me of people that say, I am not racist, I have black friends' Says the man who constantly feels the need to tell is he has a Black, African wife lol

What were my views on the gangs in Rochdale and what was wrong with them?

Also, apart from.me considering the Syrians leaving safe countries migrants rather than refugees I'm not sure what you believe my views are re Syrian migrants or what was wrong with them.



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You there Mud?

New news, man wearing large coat with wires protruding spotted in central Brussels, Belgian police have situation "under control"

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 14 minutes ago
Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* -

Thank you for your response. I believe that a Hadith is only considered authentic if it has a strong chain or narrators and that many Hadith's are considered weak or even fabricated. However, it isn’t difficult to find unpleasant material even in some stronger Hadith which many Muslims around the world take very seriously. Much of Sharia I believe comes from the Hadith and it plays an important role in Islamic study. We can't discard them since they are required to understand the life of Muhammad and Islamic history.

I've tended to notice Muslims using Hadith if it were to show Islam in a positive light, but reject authentic Hadith if the text is of a more disturbing nature.
This is where IS and groups of a similar ilk can play around with the text and justify their actions.

I'm aware though that some Muslims are Quranist's but they are in the minority.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

That's ok, I enjoy answering questions.

"I believe that a Hadith is only considered authentic if it has a strong chain of narrators"

That's both true and false because the authenticity varies from scholar to scholar especially Shia and Sunni scholars. You will find that the ones with strong chains but are violent in nature are usually the ones that don't correspond with the Quran which has set out limits. These are the chosen Hadith's that people like Daesh chose to follow. Revelations taken from the Quran put these Hadith's to bed.

If the Hadith's contradict the Quran, then they are automatically void. The people who compiled the Hadith's, although considered noble men, were ONLY men and therefore could make mistakes.

Don't forget that the Hadith's when mentioned as strong or authentic isn't an indication that the Hadith it self is strong but that the chain of narrators were reliable.

Reliability does not equate to infallibility and please consider that the Hadith's were passed on hundreds of years after the Prophets death and so were not safe guarded by a Prophet.

The holy book is regarded as a text without mistakes and over rules the Hadith's as the Quran is regarded to contain the direct words of God which were safe guarded by the Prophet.

The majority of Muslims rely on the Hadith's to practise Islam but Muslims have to do so with sincerity and with consideration of the Quran.

Like I said any Hadith's contradicting the Quran are not authentic, otherwise the Muslim holy book would be useless.

I'm actually quite impressed you know about them to be honest, you are the only person on here that has ever asked me about them and makes a nice change from the usual "they said Allahu Akbar so they must be Muslims" angle.

"I've tended to notice Muslims using Hadith if it were to show Islam in a positive light, but reject authentic Hadith if the text is of a more disturbing nature."

Younger Muslims are becoming more educated and understand the Hadith's better because they study them.
It's not cherry picking but choosing the material which corresponds with the Quran.

In certain parts of the Middle East where education is a luxury people still take the word of so called scholars and Imams without ever researching for themselves.

It's not a coincidence that these Muslims who haven't studied the Quran, Hadith's and listen to others, approach Islamic scriptures with the exact same extremist mentality as non Muslims without knowledge.

They both think Islam condones chaos and violence outside the limits of self defence.

Question now is, will you complain to the admins then accuse others of hitting the complaint button like you did previously.

Or will you accuse the admins of being of foreign descent for deleting your moronic comments?

Rover the hill and far away

I'm happy to respond but I will have to do this once I'm home if that's ok?

I do not hide the fact my wife is of African origin. Many folk on here know this, it does not bestow me super powers. Just a conversation topic.

I do wonder however why you like discussing my wife. Why is that?

Kung fu - fella, it looks like I'm the only one slacking off then

You've put a lot of effort into this thread and others, I am not going to mind you taking some time to reply.

cheers

Got footy at 9 so hopefully I will get back to you around 8:30!

Enjoy - I'm not allowed to play any more after destroying my knee.

Mud

Firstly, I didn't try and tie anyone to these gangs. I asked why the grooming gangs were disproportionately muslims.

Second. I didn't apply different standards to muslim migrants. Kung Fu get saying I was despite my posts to the contrary.

Again,I am in no way racist. I do complain when labeled as such as it offends me. Why would being labelled racist bother me if i was?

Surely Admin would have banned me if i was racist?

Comment deleted by Site Moderator