comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by X (U4074)
posted 21 minutes ago
I'd agree that Kane is world class; he's one of the best 'in-the-box' strikers in the world.
However I suspect that what Southgate means by world class, is not overall ability, but the type of player with the flair to score or create a goal from nothing.
And he's right England do lack that sort of individual talent x
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how many teams in the world have that kind of 'consistent' individual talent? Spain, Portugal, France, Brazil...maybe Uruguay. Current world champions certainly do not and the likes of Belgium, Italy,Wales et al are not streets ahead of England
Only Southgate of course can delineate what he means by that lazy remark but we can only speculate.
The weakest link in this set-up is the midfield (centrally, in particular). I struggle to recall a midfield this weak - even i could get in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Belgium have Hazard though. If England had produced a player as talented as him he'd be the most hyped player in the world. The closest we come to that are with Ox and Sterling who have the natural talent but don't have the brains to properly make the most of it.
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by X (U4074)
posted 21 minutes ago
I'd agree that Kane is world class; he's one of the best 'in-the-box' strikers in the world.
However I suspect that what Southgate means by world class, is not overall ability, but the type of player with the flair to score or create a goal from nothing.
And he's right England do lack that sort of individual talent x
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how many teams in the world have that kind of 'consistent' individual talent? Spain, Portugal, France, Brazil...maybe Uruguay. Current world champions certainly do not and the likes of Belgium, Italy,Wales et al are not streets ahead of England
Only Southgate of course can delineate what he means by that lazy remark but we can only speculate.
The weakest link in this set-up is the midfield (centrally, in particular). I struggle to recall a midfield this weak - even i could get in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Belgium have Hazard though. If England had produced a player as talented as him he'd be the most hyped player in the world. The closest we come to that are with Ox and Sterling who have the natural talent but don't have the brains to properly make the most of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said 'consistent individual talent'.
For Belgium, Hazard is nowhere near consistent as he has for Chelsea.
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by X (U4074)
posted 21 minutes ago
I'd agree that Kane is world class; he's one of the best 'in-the-box' strikers in the world.
However I suspect that what Southgate means by world class, is not overall ability, but the type of player with the flair to score or create a goal from nothing.
And he's right England do lack that sort of individual talent x
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how many teams in the world have that kind of 'consistent' individual talent? Spain, Portugal, France, Brazil...maybe Uruguay. Current world champions certainly do not and the likes of Belgium, Italy,Wales et al are not streets ahead of England
Only Southgate of course can delineate what he means by that lazy remark but we can only speculate.
The weakest link in this set-up is the midfield (centrally, in particular). I struggle to recall a midfield this weak - even i could get in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Belgium have Hazard though. If England had produced a player as talented as him he'd be the most hyped player in the world. The closest we come to that are with Ox and Sterling who have the natural talent but don't have the brains to properly make the most of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said 'consistent individual talent'.
For Belgium, Hazard is nowhere near consistent as he has for Chelsea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So far I guess. He still has enough time to turn that around on the international stage.
For England we should wonder why we never produce players that good in the league to begin with.
It's my humble opinion that the very best teams usually have at least one of those players a decade, I think that's certainly the case with Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, Brazil, even Germany has a tendancy to produce players who have the technique to regular score goals from unlikely angles and distances.
In comparison England doesn't play such players (Le Tissier, Scholes).
Or plays them in the wrong position (Gerrard, Scholes again).
Or puts too much focus of the play on the best of such players, to the detriment of a balanced and effective team (Beckham, Gascoigne) x
comment by No money available (U6675)
posted 5 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 4 minutes ago
Greece won the euros but not sure there's been a side in the last 30 years that's won the World Cup without having any world class players?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully agree. Dont think that we Germans have world class players in our team when we won the WC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kroos, Neuer, Boateng, Lahm and 2014 Bastian were not world class? Come on now.
comment by Who's Kissing Cameras. (U1703)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by No money available (U6675)
posted 5 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 4 minutes ago
Greece won the euros but not sure there's been a side in the last 30 years that's won the World Cup without having any world class players?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully agree. Dont think that we Germans have world class players in our team when we won the WC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kroos, Neuer, Boateng, Lahm and 2014 Bastian were not world class? Come on now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Lahm is....the others...questionable
Kroos and Neuer were unquestionably world class in 2014
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 13 seconds ago
Kroos and Neuer were unquestionably world class in 2014
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldnt ague strongly against it to be fair
Kane maybe a great striker but t what's the point of him if the manager lets him take corners and free kicks
As much as we need great players we also need gutsy and forward thinking manager👍
Someone who will shirk from dropping anyone out of firm and bring in players from wider pool than just the top six from premiership 👍
Neuer was thought of as the best keeper in the world in 2014, and had a big part to play in Germany's WC win. Not sure how he couldn't have been world class. A few others too.
Like Rooney, you can fall in and out of the world class territory. Maybe some of them aren't now, when they were then.
England don't have any world class players. Very true.
England players who have been world class since 2000:
Cole, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Ferdinand, Scholes, Beckham.
More or less? Shearer still? Owen possibly?
Beckham? LMFAO Owen? No chance.
Genuine world class player England had were Scholes, Ferdinand, Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole.
comment by DubbedTheNewWenger90 (U19529)
posted 2 minutes ago
Beckham? LMFAO Owen? No chance.
Genuine world class player England had were Scholes, Ferdinand, Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Beckham when he came second to Rivaldo in the Ballon d'Or, why not? Not saying he was world class for the majority of his career.
His delivery into the box was always pretty exceptional.
It's the term "world class" which always bothers me in football, world class means amongst the best in the world, so that could mean the top 5, top 10, top 20, 30, 40 etc etc, it depends on what the person saying the phrase means by "world class" IMO.
Is Harry Kane among the top 3 strikers in world football? No, so he isn't world class.
Is Harry Kane among the top 10 strikers in world football? Yes, so he is world class.
comment by DubbedTheNewWenger90 (U19529)
posted 26 minutes ago
Beckham? LMFAO Owen? No chance.
Genuine world class player England had were Scholes, Ferdinand, Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah that golden generation....we were unbeatable back th....
Oh...Hold on......
Rooney, Owen, JT, Cole, Rio, Becks, Scholes, Lamps and Gerrard were all world class imo.
That said, with some luck, and good old fashioned team work, this team may well do better at a major tourny.
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi (U17054)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 4 minutes ago
Individuals can be argued but there are a lot of players on a similar or better level to Kane.
--------------------------
Well there are not a lot of players on a better level than him.
You could argue there are a lot of players on a similar level. But the original question was whether Kane is world class, and he is amongst the best strikers on the planet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are only basing that on PL goals.
There is no other evidence.
Given the PL is pretty weak on a European let along global level, id say that's a false barometer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, but that is utter bollocks.
Scoring goals against PL sides is a lot more difficult than scoring goals against Spanish or French sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes.
Southgate should just focus on getting his players playing well as a team rather that worrying about which of the players stand no chance of winning individual awards given it's a team game.
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 7 minutes ago
Ah that golden generation....we were unbeatable back th....
Oh...Hold on......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps that's as good as we'll have it for a while? At least we were getting to QFs consistently even if we were underachieving. Nowadays we're finishing bottom of groups or losing to Iceland.
I said at the time of the 'golden generation' when they were getting no end of stick for 'only' getting to QF's for years on end that people would look back and realise that we were actually doing well for the country when you look at our entire history.
Only 66-70 did we have a better team.
Our standard is qualification and then losing either in the group or early in the KO's.
That 02-10 era should have reached a semi final, and were unlucky IMO in 2004 not to do so, and they shouldn't have failed to qualify in 08, but overall they are the 2nd best era we have ever had.
1990 wasn't an era. It was just a freak tournament where we had a lucky draw (Belgium and Cameroon!). We were crap just before it and just after it, losing in the group stage of the Euros twice and failing to qualify in 94.
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 27 seconds ago
I said at the time of the 'golden generation' when they were getting no end of stick for 'only' getting to QF's for years on end that people would look back and realise that we were actually doing well for the country when you look at our entire history.
Only 66-70 did we have a better team.
Our standard is qualification and then losing either in the group or early in the KO's.
That 02-10 era should have reached a semi final, and were unlucky IMO in 2004 not to do so, and they shouldn't have failed to qualify in 08, but overall they are the 2nd best era we have ever had.
1990 wasn't an era. It was just a freak tournament where we had a lucky draw (Belgium and Cameroon!). We were crap just before it and just after it, losing in the group stage of the Euros twice and failing to qualify in 94.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think you're right about 02-10 being the second best period. We were actually decent in 04 and unlucky not to reach the semis. Sol's goal should have stood.
We were a decent team in 96-98 as well, even with the home advantage of 96. I mean we won the Tournoi beating both France and Italy.
1990 has always been overrated by people. We didn't win in any match until after 90 mins I believe.
Beat Egypt 1-0
We did have lady luck on our side in 1990, apart from maybe the semi final.
Sign in if you want to comment
ENGLAND HAVE NO WORLD CLASS PLAYERS
Page 4 of 6
6
posted on 3/9/17
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by X (U4074)
posted 21 minutes ago
I'd agree that Kane is world class; he's one of the best 'in-the-box' strikers in the world.
However I suspect that what Southgate means by world class, is not overall ability, but the type of player with the flair to score or create a goal from nothing.
And he's right England do lack that sort of individual talent x
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how many teams in the world have that kind of 'consistent' individual talent? Spain, Portugal, France, Brazil...maybe Uruguay. Current world champions certainly do not and the likes of Belgium, Italy,Wales et al are not streets ahead of England
Only Southgate of course can delineate what he means by that lazy remark but we can only speculate.
The weakest link in this set-up is the midfield (centrally, in particular). I struggle to recall a midfield this weak - even i could get in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Belgium have Hazard though. If England had produced a player as talented as him he'd be the most hyped player in the world. The closest we come to that are with Ox and Sterling who have the natural talent but don't have the brains to properly make the most of it.
posted on 3/9/17
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by X (U4074)
posted 21 minutes ago
I'd agree that Kane is world class; he's one of the best 'in-the-box' strikers in the world.
However I suspect that what Southgate means by world class, is not overall ability, but the type of player with the flair to score or create a goal from nothing.
And he's right England do lack that sort of individual talent x
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how many teams in the world have that kind of 'consistent' individual talent? Spain, Portugal, France, Brazil...maybe Uruguay. Current world champions certainly do not and the likes of Belgium, Italy,Wales et al are not streets ahead of England
Only Southgate of course can delineate what he means by that lazy remark but we can only speculate.
The weakest link in this set-up is the midfield (centrally, in particular). I struggle to recall a midfield this weak - even i could get in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Belgium have Hazard though. If England had produced a player as talented as him he'd be the most hyped player in the world. The closest we come to that are with Ox and Sterling who have the natural talent but don't have the brains to properly make the most of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said 'consistent individual talent'.
For Belgium, Hazard is nowhere near consistent as he has for Chelsea.
posted on 3/9/17
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by X (U4074)
posted 21 minutes ago
I'd agree that Kane is world class; he's one of the best 'in-the-box' strikers in the world.
However I suspect that what Southgate means by world class, is not overall ability, but the type of player with the flair to score or create a goal from nothing.
And he's right England do lack that sort of individual talent x
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how many teams in the world have that kind of 'consistent' individual talent? Spain, Portugal, France, Brazil...maybe Uruguay. Current world champions certainly do not and the likes of Belgium, Italy,Wales et al are not streets ahead of England
Only Southgate of course can delineate what he means by that lazy remark but we can only speculate.
The weakest link in this set-up is the midfield (centrally, in particular). I struggle to recall a midfield this weak - even i could get in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Belgium have Hazard though. If England had produced a player as talented as him he'd be the most hyped player in the world. The closest we come to that are with Ox and Sterling who have the natural talent but don't have the brains to properly make the most of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said 'consistent individual talent'.
For Belgium, Hazard is nowhere near consistent as he has for Chelsea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So far I guess. He still has enough time to turn that around on the international stage.
For England we should wonder why we never produce players that good in the league to begin with.
posted on 3/9/17
It's my humble opinion that the very best teams usually have at least one of those players a decade, I think that's certainly the case with Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, Brazil, even Germany has a tendancy to produce players who have the technique to regular score goals from unlikely angles and distances.
In comparison England doesn't play such players (Le Tissier, Scholes).
Or plays them in the wrong position (Gerrard, Scholes again).
Or puts too much focus of the play on the best of such players, to the detriment of a balanced and effective team (Beckham, Gascoigne) x
posted on 3/9/17
comment by No money available (U6675)
posted 5 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 4 minutes ago
Greece won the euros but not sure there's been a side in the last 30 years that's won the World Cup without having any world class players?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully agree. Dont think that we Germans have world class players in our team when we won the WC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kroos, Neuer, Boateng, Lahm and 2014 Bastian were not world class? Come on now.
posted on 3/9/17
comment by Who's Kissing Cameras. (U1703)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by No money available (U6675)
posted 5 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by Tiddles (U17634)
posted 4 minutes ago
Greece won the euros but not sure there's been a side in the last 30 years that's won the World Cup without having any world class players?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully agree. Dont think that we Germans have world class players in our team when we won the WC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kroos, Neuer, Boateng, Lahm and 2014 Bastian were not world class? Come on now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Lahm is....the others...questionable
posted on 3/9/17
Kroos and Neuer were unquestionably world class in 2014
posted on 3/9/17
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 13 seconds ago
Kroos and Neuer were unquestionably world class in 2014
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldnt ague strongly against it to be fair
posted on 3/9/17
Kane maybe a great striker but t what's the point of him if the manager lets him take corners and free kicks
As much as we need great players we also need gutsy and forward thinking manager👍
Someone who will shirk from dropping anyone out of firm and bring in players from wider pool than just the top six from premiership 👍
posted on 3/9/17
Neuer was thought of as the best keeper in the world in 2014, and had a big part to play in Germany's WC win. Not sure how he couldn't have been world class. A few others too.
Like Rooney, you can fall in and out of the world class territory. Maybe some of them aren't now, when they were then.
posted on 3/9/17
Not shirk 🙄
posted on 3/9/17
England don't have any world class players. Very true.
posted on 3/9/17
England players who have been world class since 2000:
Cole, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Ferdinand, Scholes, Beckham.
More or less? Shearer still? Owen possibly?
posted on 3/9/17
Beckham? LMFAO Owen? No chance.
Genuine world class player England had were Scholes, Ferdinand, Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole.
posted on 3/9/17
comment by DubbedTheNewWenger90 (U19529)
posted 2 minutes ago
Beckham? LMFAO Owen? No chance.
Genuine world class player England had were Scholes, Ferdinand, Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Beckham when he came second to Rivaldo in the Ballon d'Or, why not? Not saying he was world class for the majority of his career.
His delivery into the box was always pretty exceptional.
posted on 3/9/17
It's the term "world class" which always bothers me in football, world class means amongst the best in the world, so that could mean the top 5, top 10, top 20, 30, 40 etc etc, it depends on what the person saying the phrase means by "world class" IMO.
Is Harry Kane among the top 3 strikers in world football? No, so he isn't world class.
Is Harry Kane among the top 10 strikers in world football? Yes, so he is world class.
posted on 3/9/17
comment by DubbedTheNewWenger90 (U19529)
posted 26 minutes ago
Beckham? LMFAO Owen? No chance.
Genuine world class player England had were Scholes, Ferdinand, Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 3/9/17
Ah that golden generation....we were unbeatable back th....
Oh...Hold on......
posted on 3/9/17
Rooney, Owen, JT, Cole, Rio, Becks, Scholes, Lamps and Gerrard were all world class imo.
That said, with some luck, and good old fashioned team work, this team may well do better at a major tourny.
posted on 3/9/17
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi (U17054)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 4 minutes ago
Individuals can be argued but there are a lot of players on a similar or better level to Kane.
--------------------------
Well there are not a lot of players on a better level than him.
You could argue there are a lot of players on a similar level. But the original question was whether Kane is world class, and he is amongst the best strikers on the planet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are only basing that on PL goals.
There is no other evidence.
Given the PL is pretty weak on a European let along global level, id say that's a false barometer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, but that is utter bollocks.
Scoring goals against PL sides is a lot more difficult than scoring goals against Spanish or French sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes.
posted on 3/9/17
Southgate should just focus on getting his players playing well as a team rather that worrying about which of the players stand no chance of winning individual awards given it's a team game.
posted on 3/9/17
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 7 minutes ago
Ah that golden generation....we were unbeatable back th....
Oh...Hold on......
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps that's as good as we'll have it for a while? At least we were getting to QFs consistently even if we were underachieving. Nowadays we're finishing bottom of groups or losing to Iceland.
posted on 3/9/17
I said at the time of the 'golden generation' when they were getting no end of stick for 'only' getting to QF's for years on end that people would look back and realise that we were actually doing well for the country when you look at our entire history.
Only 66-70 did we have a better team.
Our standard is qualification and then losing either in the group or early in the KO's.
That 02-10 era should have reached a semi final, and were unlucky IMO in 2004 not to do so, and they shouldn't have failed to qualify in 08, but overall they are the 2nd best era we have ever had.
1990 wasn't an era. It was just a freak tournament where we had a lucky draw (Belgium and Cameroon!). We were crap just before it and just after it, losing in the group stage of the Euros twice and failing to qualify in 94.
posted on 3/9/17
comment by selbstgerechtein (U7048)
posted 27 seconds ago
I said at the time of the 'golden generation' when they were getting no end of stick for 'only' getting to QF's for years on end that people would look back and realise that we were actually doing well for the country when you look at our entire history.
Only 66-70 did we have a better team.
Our standard is qualification and then losing either in the group or early in the KO's.
That 02-10 era should have reached a semi final, and were unlucky IMO in 2004 not to do so, and they shouldn't have failed to qualify in 08, but overall they are the 2nd best era we have ever had.
1990 wasn't an era. It was just a freak tournament where we had a lucky draw (Belgium and Cameroon!). We were crap just before it and just after it, losing in the group stage of the Euros twice and failing to qualify in 94.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think you're right about 02-10 being the second best period. We were actually decent in 04 and unlucky not to reach the semis. Sol's goal should have stood.
We were a decent team in 96-98 as well, even with the home advantage of 96. I mean we won the Tournoi beating both France and Italy.
1990 has always been overrated by people. We didn't win in any match until after 90 mins I believe.
posted on 3/9/17
Beat Egypt 1-0
We did have lady luck on our side in 1990, apart from maybe the semi final.
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