Most of the lawyers in GB are white, middle/upper class men who have no idea how it feels to be discriminated by the justice system, police, lawyers, judges, prison officers, employers etc. So the 'society of black lawyers' was formed to represent some kind of stand to these injustices of the minorities, because ;'the society of white lawyers' sure aint.
.................
100% irrelevant to the point.
If you don't understand the point I made, you will never understand racism. Racism can not be one way.
Most of the lawyers in GB are white, middle/upper class men who have no idea how it feels to be discriminated by the justice system, police, lawyers, judges, prison officers, employers etc. So the 'society of black lawyers' was formed to represent some kind of stand to these injustices of the minorities, because ;'the society of white lawyers' sure aint.
.................
100% irrelevant to the point.
If you don't understand the point I made, you will never understand racism. Racism can not be one way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No-one has said that racism is one way.
I fully understand how racism works as having to endue it my whole life.
Having a team of black lawyers is not being racist, as your trying to imply. If those black lawyers ONLY took on black people and said no to a white person due to their colour, then that's racism.
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
About 2 weeks ago, soldiers were arrested for planning terror attacks. These were white british males.
If they had been muslim, what do you think the reaction would have been?
How much coverage did it get?
David Cameron was "ashamed" when facts and figures were put to him about how unfair society is to minorities.
People do not want to have that conversation for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much coverage do you think the story of the British soldiers should have got? It made headlines on most media sources IIRC.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
No-one has said that racism is one way.
..............
You were justifying the existence of 'The League of Black Lawyers'.
You can't justify it if you want to take racism seriously.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
No-one has said that racism is one way.
..............
You were justifying the existence of 'The League of Black Lawyers'.
You can't justify it if you want to take racism seriously.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't justify it, i offered an opinion as to maybe why they felt it needed to be formed.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 hours, 33 minutes ago
You can already see some comments here like asking why there is a Society of Black Lawyers which shows clearly people do not understand how pervasive institutionalised racism is in society.
....................
Now, here is my issue.
The people who cry 'racism' out of every corner, can't actually see what is wrong with the 'Society of Black Lawyers'.
Yet if there was such a thing as a 'Society of White Lawyers' there would be racial issues with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There was already a society of White Lawyers where the Black Lawyers were not allowed in so they created their own society.
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
About 2 weeks ago, soldiers were arrested for planning terror attacks. These were white british males.
If they had been muslim, what do you think the reaction would have been?
How much coverage did it get?
David Cameron was "ashamed" when facts and figures were put to him about how unfair society is to minorities.
People do not want to have that conversation for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much coverage do you think the story of the British soldiers should have got? It made headlines on most media sources IIRC.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is all about economics. The indians came here first so successive generations will have assets they can pass on to their progeny.
It will take a while for others to catch up.
More recent arrivals to the country who emigrate here will be better off on arrival than their ancestors who came here with nothing.
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one says just the prejudices are responsible. They do play a key factor in key life decisions.
Companies have been found time and time again to discriminate against minorities. Do you not believe this happens?
Even the judicial system and the Met have been found to be institutionally racist.
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
About 2 weeks ago, soldiers were arrested for planning terror attacks. These were white british males.
If they had been muslim, what do you think the reaction would have been?
How much coverage did it get?
David Cameron was "ashamed" when facts and figures were put to him about how unfair society is to minorities.
People do not want to have that conversation for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much coverage do you think the story of the British soldiers should have got? It made headlines on most media sources IIRC.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is all about economics. The indians came here first so successive generations will have assets they can pass on to their progeny.
It will take a while for others to catch up.
More recent arrivals to the country who emigrate here will be better off on arrival than their ancestors who came here with nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Asian community all came to UK during roughly the same time (60's and 70's), along with the Caribbean community. The Indian community has generally has had far more success then their Pakistani and Bangladeshi counterparts and on average, earn a significantly higher income despite the three all sharing the same skin colour.
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
About 2 weeks ago, soldiers were arrested for planning terror attacks. These were white british males.
If they had been muslim, what do you think the reaction would have been?
How much coverage did it get?
David Cameron was "ashamed" when facts and figures were put to him about how unfair society is to minorities.
People do not want to have that conversation for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much coverage do you think the story of the British soldiers should have got? It made headlines on most media sources IIRC.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is all about economics. The indians came here first so successive generations will have assets they can pass on to their progeny.
It will take a while for others to catch up.
More recent arrivals to the country who emigrate here will be better off on arrival than their ancestors who came here with nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Asian community all came to UK during roughly the same time (60's and 70's), along with the Caribbean community. The Indian community has generally has had far more success then their Pakistani and Bangladeshi counterparts and on average, earn a significantly higher income despite the three all sharing the same skin colour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not accurate. There have been Asians here since Queen Victoria. There have also been blacks here before the West Indians.
Have you forgotten about our history?
India was one of the richest countries in the world before we raped and pillaged it. Some of those folk came over with wealth.
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one says just the prejudices are responsible. They do play a key factor in key life decisions.
Companies have been found time and time again to discriminate against minorities. Do you not believe this happens?
Even the judicial system and the Met have been found to be institutionally racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it happens. Which society in the world doesn't have an issue with minority groups being treated differently/unfairly? Humans have been shown to display racial bias even as babies. It's hardly a surprise therefore that some industries and companies might display a level of prejudice when almost all the people working for them may hold such views to varying degrees.
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one says just the prejudices are responsible. They do play a key factor in key life decisions.
Companies have been found time and time again to discriminate against minorities. Do you not believe this happens?
Even the judicial system and the Met have been found to be institutionally racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it happens. Which society in the world doesn't have an issue with minority groups being treated differently/unfairly? Humans have been shown to display racial bias even as babies. It's hardly a surprise therefore that some industries and companies might display a level of prejudice when almost all the people working for them may hold such views to varying degrees.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So if it happens, how is it not a factor in economic empowerment?
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
About 2 weeks ago, soldiers were arrested for planning terror attacks. These were white british males.
If they had been muslim, what do you think the reaction would have been?
How much coverage did it get?
David Cameron was "ashamed" when facts and figures were put to him about how unfair society is to minorities.
People do not want to have that conversation for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much coverage do you think the story of the British soldiers should have got? It made headlines on most media sources IIRC.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is all about economics. The indians came here first so successive generations will have assets they can pass on to their progeny.
It will take a while for others to catch up.
More recent arrivals to the country who emigrate here will be better off on arrival than their ancestors who came here with nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Asian community all came to UK during roughly the same time (60's and 70's), along with the Caribbean community. The Indian community has generally has had far more success then their Pakistani and Bangladeshi counterparts and on average, earn a significantly higher income despite the three all sharing the same skin colour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not accurate. There have been Asians here since Queen Victoria. There have also been blacks here before the West Indians.
Have you forgotten about our history?
India was one of the richest countries in the world before we raped and pillaged it. Some of those folk came over with wealth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The large influx of Asians arrived by the 60's and onwards. Sure, those communities have existed in the UK before then, but in much smaller numbers.
The British empire did what empires do; conquer lands and extract the resources from it to expand it's own wealth. I'm not saying it was a good thing but it's hardly unique in human history.
India was under the control of the Mughal Empire before the Brits arrived and it's great wealth benefited mostly those who ruled that Empire.
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one says just the prejudices are responsible. They do play a key factor in key life decisions.
Companies have been found time and time again to discriminate against minorities. Do you not believe this happens?
Even the judicial system and the Met have been found to be institutionally racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it happens. Which society in the world doesn't have an issue with minority groups being treated differently/unfairly? Humans have been shown to display racial bias even as babies. It's hardly a surprise therefore that some industries and companies might display a level of prejudice when almost all the people working for them may hold such views to varying degrees.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So if it happens, how is it not a factor in economic empowerment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a factor. I just don't think it's the only factor (or even the most important one). The fact that some ethnic minority groups do significantly better then others in terms of jobs and average income should indicate that there are many factors at play outside of just racism.
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 20 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one says just the prejudices are responsible. They do play a key factor in key life decisions.
Companies have been found time and time again to discriminate against minorities. Do you not believe this happens?
Even the judicial system and the Met have been found to be institutionally racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it happens. Which society in the world doesn't have an issue with minority groups being treated differently/unfairly? Humans have been shown to display racial bias even as babies. It's hardly a surprise therefore that some industries and companies might display a level of prejudice when almost all the people working for them may hold such views to varying degrees.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So if it happens, how is it not a factor in economic empowerment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a factor. I just don't think it's the only factor (or even the most important one). The fact that some ethnic minority groups do significantly better then others in terms of jobs and average income should indicate that there are many factors at play outside of just racism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that flies against the research and discernible evidence available.
Every human being has the capacity for greatness, all they need is an opportunity. This is where racism comes into play as it prevents everyone from having the same opportunities.
People having to "whiten" their names to get a job interview should tell you all you need to know
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
Well that flies against the research and discernible evidence available.
Every human being has the capacity for greatness, all they need is an opportunity. This is where racism comes into play as it prevents everyone from having the same opportunities.
People having to "whiten" their names to get a job interview should tell you all you need to know
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think every person has the capacity for greatness. In fact, I think very few do. The best most people can achieve is to be good and functional citizens within the society. Without getting into the nature vs nurture debate, greatness is something that will most likely be determined by genes. If it were simply a case of opportunity, then everyone who has had the opportunity would achieve it.
I think there are many factors which result in the income gap between racial groups. However, it shouldn't be assumed that only racism from white Brits is what's causing the gap. As I've said previously, why have British Indians manage to earn an average wage that is significantly higher then British Pakistanis or Bangladeshi's? Did racism affect some groups more then the others, even those who share the same history and skin colour?
It's true that people of certain cultural backgrounds might prosper faster in the UK than others for reasons other than racism. The reasons tend to be found at a far more detailed level than the blunt comparison between Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis though (which I assume to be a reference to religion). E.g. The descendants of middle-class immigrants from each of those countries have tended to gravitate towards higher education and professional jobs, while the children of agricultural workers who came to the UK unskilled and without English haven't done quite so well. There are much stronger correlations between the social class of the original migrant and the prospects of the kids than between country of origin.
That aside, there has been more than one research project where identical CVs are sent to employers and the one with the anglo-saxon sounding name on average does better than the one with the non-white sounding name. Discrimination isn't the only factor but it's a factor. That's an established fact.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 37 minutes ago
It's true that people of certain cultural backgrounds might prosper faster in the UK than others for reasons other than racism. The reasons tend to be found at a far more detailed level than the blunt comparison between Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis though (which I assume to be a reference to religion). E.g. The descendants of middle-class immigrants from each of those countries have tended to gravitate towards higher education and professional jobs, while the children of agricultural workers who came to the UK unskilled and without English haven't done quite so well. There are much stronger correlations between the social class of the original migrant and the prospects of the kids than between country of origin.
That aside, there has been more than one research project where identical CVs are sent to employers and the one with the anglo-saxon sounding name on average does better than the one with the non-white sounding name. Discrimination isn't the only factor but it's a factor. That's an established fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't necessarily just thinking on religious grounds (even though it can play a part) since even different ethnic groups who share the same religion can still have varying levels of success. As you've said though, migrants who arrive from more educated and urban areas are more likely to succeed in the UK then those who arrive from more rural and less educated areas.
Is there discrimination too? Of course there is. There always will be too. People generally tend to favour those who they share a similar identity and background with. That's nothing new. Trying to stop this would involve some major "re-programming" of society - and that would most likely fail anyway.
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 37 minutes ago
It's true that people of certain cultural backgrounds might prosper faster in the UK than others for reasons other than racism. The reasons tend to be found at a far more detailed level than the blunt comparison between Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis though (which I assume to be a reference to religion). E.g. The descendants of middle-class immigrants from each of those countries have tended to gravitate towards higher education and professional jobs, while the children of agricultural workers who came to the UK unskilled and without English haven't done quite so well. There are much stronger correlations between the social class of the original migrant and the prospects of the kids than between country of origin.
That aside, there has been more than one research project where identical CVs are sent to employers and the one with the anglo-saxon sounding name on average does better than the one with the non-white sounding name. Discrimination isn't the only factor but it's a factor. That's an established fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't necessarily just thinking on religious grounds (even though it can play a part) since even different ethnic groups who share the same religion can still have varying levels of success. As you've said though, migrants who arrive from more educated and urban areas are more likely to succeed in the UK then those who arrive from more rural and less educated areas.
Is there discrimination too? Of course there is. There always will be too. People generally tend to favour those who they share a similar identity and background with. That's nothing new. Trying to stop this would involve some major "re-programming" of society - and that would most likely fail anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Racism isn't inevitable. There are massive differences between levels of racism in different cultural conditions. Where the prevailing culture is more racist (e.g. the Deep South in the 1930s) the attitudes and behaviour of the average individual is likely to be too. In my lifetime UK culture has changed massively in this respect. We don't tend to think the way our grandparents did about skin colour. People are programmed genetically to favour the familiar but we're intellectually flexible enough to have a broad and sometimes generous sense of 'one of us' - especially if prevailing culture helps us connect rather than accentuating and aggravating differences. In this respect, the ferocious fight back against 'political correctness' (unfairly caricatured by the right) is utterly depressing.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 16 hours, 15 minutes ago-
Racism isn't inevitable. There are massive differences between levels of racism in different cultural conditions. Where the prevailing culture is more racist (e.g. the Deep South in the 1930s) the attitudes and behaviour of the average individual is likely to be too. In my lifetime UK culture has changed massively in this respect. We don't tend to think the way our grandparents did about skin colour. People are programmed genetically to favour the familiar but we're intellectually flexible enough to have a broad and sometimes generous sense of 'one of us' - especially if prevailing culture helps us connect rather than accentuating and aggravating differences. In this respect, the ferocious fight back against 'political correctness' (unfairly caricatured by the right) is utterly depressing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Racism tends to increase and decrease depending on the political and economic climate at the time.
Regarding "political correctness", it's a broad term and there are some aspects of it which are irksome and unplesant, even many on the left have acknowledged this.
Both those on the right and the left of politics are capable of being offensive and provocative. It's all subjective anyway. What one person may find offensive or abhorant, someone else may see as a joke or a fact - and vice versa.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/sep/26/david-squires-on-fans-bravely-persisting-with-their-romelu-lukaku-song
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Lukaku song - another viewpoint
Page 5 of 5
posted on 21/9/17
Most of the lawyers in GB are white, middle/upper class men who have no idea how it feels to be discriminated by the justice system, police, lawyers, judges, prison officers, employers etc. So the 'society of black lawyers' was formed to represent some kind of stand to these injustices of the minorities, because ;'the society of white lawyers' sure aint.
.................
100% irrelevant to the point.
If you don't understand the point I made, you will never understand racism. Racism can not be one way.
posted on 21/9/17
Most of the lawyers in GB are white, middle/upper class men who have no idea how it feels to be discriminated by the justice system, police, lawyers, judges, prison officers, employers etc. So the 'society of black lawyers' was formed to represent some kind of stand to these injustices of the minorities, because ;'the society of white lawyers' sure aint.
.................
100% irrelevant to the point.
If you don't understand the point I made, you will never understand racism. Racism can not be one way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No-one has said that racism is one way.
I fully understand how racism works as having to endue it my whole life.
Having a team of black lawyers is not being racist, as your trying to imply. If those black lawyers ONLY took on black people and said no to a white person due to their colour, then that's racism.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
About 2 weeks ago, soldiers were arrested for planning terror attacks. These were white british males.
If they had been muslim, what do you think the reaction would have been?
How much coverage did it get?
David Cameron was "ashamed" when facts and figures were put to him about how unfair society is to minorities.
People do not want to have that conversation for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much coverage do you think the story of the British soldiers should have got? It made headlines on most media sources IIRC.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
posted on 21/9/17
No-one has said that racism is one way.
..............
You were justifying the existence of 'The League of Black Lawyers'.
You can't justify it if you want to take racism seriously.
posted on 21/9/17
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
posted on 21/9/17
No-one has said that racism is one way.
..............
You were justifying the existence of 'The League of Black Lawyers'.
You can't justify it if you want to take racism seriously.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't justify it, i offered an opinion as to maybe why they felt it needed to be formed.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 hours, 33 minutes ago
You can already see some comments here like asking why there is a Society of Black Lawyers which shows clearly people do not understand how pervasive institutionalised racism is in society.
....................
Now, here is my issue.
The people who cry 'racism' out of every corner, can't actually see what is wrong with the 'Society of Black Lawyers'.
Yet if there was such a thing as a 'Society of White Lawyers' there would be racial issues with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There was already a society of White Lawyers where the Black Lawyers were not allowed in so they created their own society.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
About 2 weeks ago, soldiers were arrested for planning terror attacks. These were white british males.
If they had been muslim, what do you think the reaction would have been?
How much coverage did it get?
David Cameron was "ashamed" when facts and figures were put to him about how unfair society is to minorities.
People do not want to have that conversation for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much coverage do you think the story of the British soldiers should have got? It made headlines on most media sources IIRC.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is all about economics. The indians came here first so successive generations will have assets they can pass on to their progeny.
It will take a while for others to catch up.
More recent arrivals to the country who emigrate here will be better off on arrival than their ancestors who came here with nothing.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one says just the prejudices are responsible. They do play a key factor in key life decisions.
Companies have been found time and time again to discriminate against minorities. Do you not believe this happens?
Even the judicial system and the Met have been found to be institutionally racist.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
About 2 weeks ago, soldiers were arrested for planning terror attacks. These were white british males.
If they had been muslim, what do you think the reaction would have been?
How much coverage did it get?
David Cameron was "ashamed" when facts and figures were put to him about how unfair society is to minorities.
People do not want to have that conversation for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much coverage do you think the story of the British soldiers should have got? It made headlines on most media sources IIRC.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is all about economics. The indians came here first so successive generations will have assets they can pass on to their progeny.
It will take a while for others to catch up.
More recent arrivals to the country who emigrate here will be better off on arrival than their ancestors who came here with nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Asian community all came to UK during roughly the same time (60's and 70's), along with the Caribbean community. The Indian community has generally has had far more success then their Pakistani and Bangladeshi counterparts and on average, earn a significantly higher income despite the three all sharing the same skin colour.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
About 2 weeks ago, soldiers were arrested for planning terror attacks. These were white british males.
If they had been muslim, what do you think the reaction would have been?
How much coverage did it get?
David Cameron was "ashamed" when facts and figures were put to him about how unfair society is to minorities.
People do not want to have that conversation for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much coverage do you think the story of the British soldiers should have got? It made headlines on most media sources IIRC.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is all about economics. The indians came here first so successive generations will have assets they can pass on to their progeny.
It will take a while for others to catch up.
More recent arrivals to the country who emigrate here will be better off on arrival than their ancestors who came here with nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Asian community all came to UK during roughly the same time (60's and 70's), along with the Caribbean community. The Indian community has generally has had far more success then their Pakistani and Bangladeshi counterparts and on average, earn a significantly higher income despite the three all sharing the same skin colour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not accurate. There have been Asians here since Queen Victoria. There have also been blacks here before the West Indians.
Have you forgotten about our history?
India was one of the richest countries in the world before we raped and pillaged it. Some of those folk came over with wealth.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one says just the prejudices are responsible. They do play a key factor in key life decisions.
Companies have been found time and time again to discriminate against minorities. Do you not believe this happens?
Even the judicial system and the Met have been found to be institutionally racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it happens. Which society in the world doesn't have an issue with minority groups being treated differently/unfairly? Humans have been shown to display racial bias even as babies. It's hardly a surprise therefore that some industries and companies might display a level of prejudice when almost all the people working for them may hold such views to varying degrees.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one says just the prejudices are responsible. They do play a key factor in key life decisions.
Companies have been found time and time again to discriminate against minorities. Do you not believe this happens?
Even the judicial system and the Met have been found to be institutionally racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it happens. Which society in the world doesn't have an issue with minority groups being treated differently/unfairly? Humans have been shown to display racial bias even as babies. It's hardly a surprise therefore that some industries and companies might display a level of prejudice when almost all the people working for them may hold such views to varying degrees.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So if it happens, how is it not a factor in economic empowerment?
posted on 21/9/17
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 8 minutes ago
About 2 weeks ago, soldiers were arrested for planning terror attacks. These were white british males.
If they had been muslim, what do you think the reaction would have been?
How much coverage did it get?
David Cameron was "ashamed" when facts and figures were put to him about how unfair society is to minorities.
People do not want to have that conversation for some reason.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much coverage do you think the story of the British soldiers should have got? It made headlines on most media sources IIRC.
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is all about economics. The indians came here first so successive generations will have assets they can pass on to their progeny.
It will take a while for others to catch up.
More recent arrivals to the country who emigrate here will be better off on arrival than their ancestors who came here with nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Asian community all came to UK during roughly the same time (60's and 70's), along with the Caribbean community. The Indian community has generally has had far more success then their Pakistani and Bangladeshi counterparts and on average, earn a significantly higher income despite the three all sharing the same skin colour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not accurate. There have been Asians here since Queen Victoria. There have also been blacks here before the West Indians.
Have you forgotten about our history?
India was one of the richest countries in the world before we raped and pillaged it. Some of those folk came over with wealth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The large influx of Asians arrived by the 60's and onwards. Sure, those communities have existed in the UK before then, but in much smaller numbers.
The British empire did what empires do; conquer lands and extract the resources from it to expand it's own wealth. I'm not saying it was a good thing but it's hardly unique in human history.
India was under the control of the Mughal Empire before the Brits arrived and it's great wealth benefited mostly those who ruled that Empire.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one says just the prejudices are responsible. They do play a key factor in key life decisions.
Companies have been found time and time again to discriminate against minorities. Do you not believe this happens?
Even the judicial system and the Met have been found to be institutionally racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it happens. Which society in the world doesn't have an issue with minority groups being treated differently/unfairly? Humans have been shown to display racial bias even as babies. It's hardly a surprise therefore that some industries and companies might display a level of prejudice when almost all the people working for them may hold such views to varying degrees.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So if it happens, how is it not a factor in economic empowerment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a factor. I just don't think it's the only factor (or even the most important one). The fact that some ethnic minority groups do significantly better then others in terms of jobs and average income should indicate that there are many factors at play outside of just racism.
posted on 22/9/17
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 20 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 20 minutes ago
Also, how do you explain why some racial minorities are significantly more successful then others? The average Indian for instance earns a considerable amount more then the average Pakistani or Bangladeshi, despite all being of the same race.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Education, hard work, saving money, invest in properties/businesses would be my guess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Seems odd though that systemic racism isn't holding them back while it holds back others who are of the same race as them.
Or perhaps there are other factors at play and not just the prejudices of indigenous Brits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one says just the prejudices are responsible. They do play a key factor in key life decisions.
Companies have been found time and time again to discriminate against minorities. Do you not believe this happens?
Even the judicial system and the Met have been found to be institutionally racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it happens. Which society in the world doesn't have an issue with minority groups being treated differently/unfairly? Humans have been shown to display racial bias even as babies. It's hardly a surprise therefore that some industries and companies might display a level of prejudice when almost all the people working for them may hold such views to varying degrees.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So if it happens, how is it not a factor in economic empowerment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a factor. I just don't think it's the only factor (or even the most important one). The fact that some ethnic minority groups do significantly better then others in terms of jobs and average income should indicate that there are many factors at play outside of just racism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that flies against the research and discernible evidence available.
Every human being has the capacity for greatness, all they need is an opportunity. This is where racism comes into play as it prevents everyone from having the same opportunities.
People having to "whiten" their names to get a job interview should tell you all you need to know
posted on 22/9/17
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
Well that flies against the research and discernible evidence available.
Every human being has the capacity for greatness, all they need is an opportunity. This is where racism comes into play as it prevents everyone from having the same opportunities.
People having to "whiten" their names to get a job interview should tell you all you need to know
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think every person has the capacity for greatness. In fact, I think very few do. The best most people can achieve is to be good and functional citizens within the society. Without getting into the nature vs nurture debate, greatness is something that will most likely be determined by genes. If it were simply a case of opportunity, then everyone who has had the opportunity would achieve it.
I think there are many factors which result in the income gap between racial groups. However, it shouldn't be assumed that only racism from white Brits is what's causing the gap. As I've said previously, why have British Indians manage to earn an average wage that is significantly higher then British Pakistanis or Bangladeshi's? Did racism affect some groups more then the others, even those who share the same history and skin colour?
posted on 22/9/17
It's true that people of certain cultural backgrounds might prosper faster in the UK than others for reasons other than racism. The reasons tend to be found at a far more detailed level than the blunt comparison between Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis though (which I assume to be a reference to religion). E.g. The descendants of middle-class immigrants from each of those countries have tended to gravitate towards higher education and professional jobs, while the children of agricultural workers who came to the UK unskilled and without English haven't done quite so well. There are much stronger correlations between the social class of the original migrant and the prospects of the kids than between country of origin.
That aside, there has been more than one research project where identical CVs are sent to employers and the one with the anglo-saxon sounding name on average does better than the one with the non-white sounding name. Discrimination isn't the only factor but it's a factor. That's an established fact.
posted on 22/9/17
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 37 minutes ago
It's true that people of certain cultural backgrounds might prosper faster in the UK than others for reasons other than racism. The reasons tend to be found at a far more detailed level than the blunt comparison between Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis though (which I assume to be a reference to religion). E.g. The descendants of middle-class immigrants from each of those countries have tended to gravitate towards higher education and professional jobs, while the children of agricultural workers who came to the UK unskilled and without English haven't done quite so well. There are much stronger correlations between the social class of the original migrant and the prospects of the kids than between country of origin.
That aside, there has been more than one research project where identical CVs are sent to employers and the one with the anglo-saxon sounding name on average does better than the one with the non-white sounding name. Discrimination isn't the only factor but it's a factor. That's an established fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't necessarily just thinking on religious grounds (even though it can play a part) since even different ethnic groups who share the same religion can still have varying levels of success. As you've said though, migrants who arrive from more educated and urban areas are more likely to succeed in the UK then those who arrive from more rural and less educated areas.
Is there discrimination too? Of course there is. There always will be too. People generally tend to favour those who they share a similar identity and background with. That's nothing new. Trying to stop this would involve some major "re-programming" of society - and that would most likely fail anyway.
posted on 22/9/17
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 37 minutes ago
It's true that people of certain cultural backgrounds might prosper faster in the UK than others for reasons other than racism. The reasons tend to be found at a far more detailed level than the blunt comparison between Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis though (which I assume to be a reference to religion). E.g. The descendants of middle-class immigrants from each of those countries have tended to gravitate towards higher education and professional jobs, while the children of agricultural workers who came to the UK unskilled and without English haven't done quite so well. There are much stronger correlations between the social class of the original migrant and the prospects of the kids than between country of origin.
That aside, there has been more than one research project where identical CVs are sent to employers and the one with the anglo-saxon sounding name on average does better than the one with the non-white sounding name. Discrimination isn't the only factor but it's a factor. That's an established fact.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't necessarily just thinking on religious grounds (even though it can play a part) since even different ethnic groups who share the same religion can still have varying levels of success. As you've said though, migrants who arrive from more educated and urban areas are more likely to succeed in the UK then those who arrive from more rural and less educated areas.
Is there discrimination too? Of course there is. There always will be too. People generally tend to favour those who they share a similar identity and background with. That's nothing new. Trying to stop this would involve some major "re-programming" of society - and that would most likely fail anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Racism isn't inevitable. There are massive differences between levels of racism in different cultural conditions. Where the prevailing culture is more racist (e.g. the Deep South in the 1930s) the attitudes and behaviour of the average individual is likely to be too. In my lifetime UK culture has changed massively in this respect. We don't tend to think the way our grandparents did about skin colour. People are programmed genetically to favour the familiar but we're intellectually flexible enough to have a broad and sometimes generous sense of 'one of us' - especially if prevailing culture helps us connect rather than accentuating and aggravating differences. In this respect, the ferocious fight back against 'political correctness' (unfairly caricatured by the right) is utterly depressing.
posted on 23/9/17
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 16 hours, 15 minutes ago-
Racism isn't inevitable. There are massive differences between levels of racism in different cultural conditions. Where the prevailing culture is more racist (e.g. the Deep South in the 1930s) the attitudes and behaviour of the average individual is likely to be too. In my lifetime UK culture has changed massively in this respect. We don't tend to think the way our grandparents did about skin colour. People are programmed genetically to favour the familiar but we're intellectually flexible enough to have a broad and sometimes generous sense of 'one of us' - especially if prevailing culture helps us connect rather than accentuating and aggravating differences. In this respect, the ferocious fight back against 'political correctness' (unfairly caricatured by the right) is utterly depressing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Racism tends to increase and decrease depending on the political and economic climate at the time.
Regarding "political correctness", it's a broad term and there are some aspects of it which are irksome and unplesant, even many on the left have acknowledged this.
Both those on the right and the left of politics are capable of being offensive and provocative. It's all subjective anyway. What one person may find offensive or abhorant, someone else may see as a joke or a fact - and vice versa.
posted on 26/9/17
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/sep/26/david-squires-on-fans-bravely-persisting-with-their-romelu-lukaku-song
posted on 26/9/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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