"There are many people who feel that it is useless and futile for us to continue talking peace and non-violence against a government who's only reply is savage attacks upon an unarmed and defenceless people"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aRkSi3tJDlE


Sounds like a very familiar struggle.

comment by mancWoohoo- maximus mardius cob-onius (U10676)
posted 9 hours, 46 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c390mrmxndyo

How a convicted citizen is able to be the President of the United States continues to be ludicrous to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hes up in front of the beak again this week.....give it a fortnight and he'll quash the lot...

A Brit from Chelsea was one of the victims that died in the New Orleans attack, only 31 years old

comment by Bats Uncensored (U18355)
posted 5 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted about 8 hours ago
comment by Bats Uncensored (U18355)
posted 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/30/israeli-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

The very first thing that came up on Google.

19% of Israeli’s think they have gone too far in Gaza.
39% say the response is about right and 34% say the response has not been strong enough.

That’s a pretty big overwhelming majority
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn’t equate to an overwhelming majority of Israelis “not giving a shiiiiit” about the number of civilian deaths in Gaza, does it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
?????? 19% say they have gone too far in Gaza. What does that say about the remaining 81%? You asked for evidence, I don’t thibk you will find anything more damning than what I have linked.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bear in mind that they aren’t seeing close to what we’re seeing about Gaza.

Their press and TV coverage isn’t freely showing the wholesale devastation of the territory; it isn’t showing footage from hospitals, interviews with Palestinian doctors and bereaved parents and aid workers, or limbs blown off children. Their picture of the massacre the IDF is carrying out isn’t one of a massacre.

They have a government, and supportive media, which is constantly lowballing casualty figures *and* telling them that half, or over half, of those casualties are Hamas terrorists. It also has them believing that they are locked in a live, existential battle with not only Hamas, but with Hezbollah, the Houthis, Iran, and now the Syrian government; and that the UN (as demonstrated by the second survey you provided), human rights organisations, globally trusted foreign media, aid agencies, etc. cannot be trusted.

In short, very many of those who don’t think the IDF has gone too far likely have a relatively very sanitised view of what has happened in Gaza, and many others will believe that Israel is currently fighting for its very existence.

A Palestinian standing at the door of a morgue keeps crying out for his mother, who was killed by Israel. His voice is truly heartbreaking….

https://x.com/suppressednws/status/1875339828151415070?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw

I see Farage has come out distancing himself from Tommy Robinson.

Ironically Musk has potentially caused a rift within the right and cost Reform with his support for Tommy

comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Bats Uncensored (U18355)
posted 5 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted about 8 hours ago
comment by Bats Uncensored (U18355)
posted 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/30/israeli-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

The very first thing that came up on Google.

19% of Israeli’s think they have gone too far in Gaza.
39% say the response is about right and 34% say the response has not been strong enough.

That’s a pretty big overwhelming majority
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn’t equate to an overwhelming majority of Israelis “not giving a shiiiiit” about the number of civilian deaths in Gaza, does it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
?????? 19% say they have gone too far in Gaza. What does that say about the remaining 81%? You asked for evidence, I don’t thibk you will find anything more damning than what I have linked.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bear in mind that they aren’t seeing close to what we’re seeing about Gaza.

Their press and TV coverage isn’t freely showing the wholesale devastation of the territory; it isn’t showing footage from hospitals, interviews with Palestinian doctors and bereaved parents and aid workers, or limbs blown off children. Their picture of the massacre the IDF is carrying out isn’t one of a massacre.

They have a government, and supportive media, which is constantly lowballing casualty figures *and* telling them that half, or over half, of those casualties are Hamas terrorists. It also has them believing that they are locked in a live, existential battle with not only Hamas, but with Hezbollah, the Houthis, Iran, and now the Syrian government; and that the UN (as demonstrated by the second survey you provided), human rights organisations, globally trusted foreign media, aid agencies, etc. cannot be trusted.

In short, very many of those who don’t think the IDF has gone too far likely have a relatively very sanitised view of what has happened in Gaza, and many others will believe that Israel is currently fighting for its very existence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely.

There was an Australian (?) woman on C4 news last night who had just returned from Gaza after working for the UN who said she hadn't seen any evidence that Hamas was operating from hospitals and schools, however she had seen the killing of innocent women and children on a daily basis.

I'm more likely to believe her, along with the shocking images we see than the Israeli propaganda machine.

Trump’s latest tantrum, this time simultaneously disrespecting a long held American tradition and the legacy and memory of Jimmy Carter:

‘In any event, because of the death of President Jimmy Carter, the Flag may, for the first time ever during an Inauguration of a future President, be at half mast. Nobody wants to see this, and no American can be happy about it. Let’s see how it plays out. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!’

Absolutely zero moral principles this guy. He’s actually more concerned about what the photos of his inauguration ceremony look like than honouring Carter’s service to his country. Mindblowing.

comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
There was an Australian (?) woman on C4 news last night who had just returned from Gaza after working for the UN who said she hadn't seen any evidence that Hamas was operating from hospitals and schools, however she had seen the killing of innocent women and children on a daily basis.

I'm more likely to believe her, along with the shocking images we see than the Israeli propaganda machine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1875292613458452965?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw

Heart breaking.

comment by Maximus Decimus Meridius (U11781)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
There was an Australian (?) woman on C4 news last night who had just returned from Gaza after working for the UN who said she hadn't seen any evidence that Hamas was operating from hospitals and schools, however she had seen the killing of innocent women and children on a daily basis.

I'm more likely to believe her, along with the shocking images we see than the Israeli propaganda machine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1875292613458452965?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the one

Palestinian Ambassador to the UN Riyad Mansour broke into tears on during a session of the UN Security Council as he quoted the final words of Dr. Mahmoud Abu Nujaila, who was killed in 2023 during an Israeli strike.

“Remember us”

https://x.com/suppressednws/status/1875458744932597887?s=46&t=bPTrpdgNggCdz9igvhmVyw

comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 7 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted about 6 hours ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by mancWoohoo- maximus mardius cob-onius (U10676)
posted 9 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c390mrmxndyo

How a convicted citizen is able to be the President of the United States continues to be ludicrous to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
South Africa had a criminal president and the whole world kissed his ass.
Not comparing Mandela to Trump, but what's to stop some government from charging people they see as their enemies with crimes just to disqualify them from running for office? Pretty sure Mandela wasn't the first and Trump won't be the last.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Could convicted felons vote in South Africa at the time ? (Or whatever the equivalent of Felon was there)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

South Africa was a pretty horrific state at the time, even attacking neighbouring countries for exiles. We took a guide to Mozambique who was a long time refugee in exile and highly sought after for years, it was kind of nuts how cantish South Africa was, I hadn't realised how brazen they were, it was mostly just a little before my time. As usual the world just pretty much ignored it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but what about the countries surrounding South Africa.

Do you ever read your own posts?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Que?

"South Africa had a criminal president and the whole world kissed his ass.
Not comparing Mandela to Trump"

Except where you are comparing the two

comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 1 minute ago
"South Africa had a criminal president and the whole world kissed his ass.
Not comparing Mandela to Trump"

Except where you are comparing the two
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know what they say. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by Bats Uncensored (U18355)
posted 5 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted about 8 hours ago
comment by Bats Uncensored (U18355)
posted 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/30/israeli-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

The very first thing that came up on Google.

19% of Israeli’s think they have gone too far in Gaza.
39% say the response is about right and 34% say the response has not been strong enough.

That’s a pretty big overwhelming majority
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn’t equate to an overwhelming majority of Israelis “not giving a shiiiiit” about the number of civilian deaths in Gaza, does it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
?????? 19% say they have gone too far in Gaza. What does that say about the remaining 81%? You asked for evidence, I don’t thibk you will find anything more damning than what I have linked.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bear in mind that they aren’t seeing close to what we’re seeing about Gaza.

Their press and TV coverage isn’t freely showing the wholesale devastation of the territory; it isn’t showing footage from hospitals, interviews with Palestinian doctors and bereaved parents and aid workers, or limbs blown off children. Their picture of the massacre the IDF is carrying out isn’t one of a massacre.

They have a government, and supportive media, which is constantly lowballing casualty figures *and* telling them that half, or over half, of those casualties are Hamas terrorists. It also has them believing that they are locked in a live, existential battle with not only Hamas, but with Hezbollah, the Houthis, Iran, and now the Syrian government; and that the UN (as demonstrated by the second survey you provided), human rights organisations, globally trusted foreign media, aid agencies, etc. cannot be trusted.

In short, very many of those who don’t think the IDF has gone too far likely have a relatively very sanitised view of what has happened in Gaza, and many others will believe that Israel is currently fighting for its very existence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t disagree with any of that but it doesn’t change the fact that Israeli society is broken. This just highlights some of the reasons why.

I would also be wary of using ignorance as an excuse for some of the deranged Israeli viewpoints. At the end of the day, this stuff has been going on for 75+ years, most Israeli’s have served in the IDF, they all have Internet access. The gangraping Israelis were on national television. I wouldn’t be looking to give these people much leeway.

Seems a pretty silly way of looking at it to me. Not defending what is going on out there as it is disgraceful but to me it seems fairly obvious why the Jewish population have the attitude they have. In their parents/grandparents life time 30-40% of the entire Jewish population were murdered, I suspect that probably creates a feeling of being isolated and victimised. Throw in the terrorist attacks that happen on their soil and the major one just over a year ago then it becomes fairly clear why they may have the feelings they have surely?

Just human nature, if it is happening to you, you get defensive first and foremost.

The real crime here isn't what Israel are doing or being allowed to do, it is the fact most of the world are doing next to nothing to stop it, and that doesn't just lay with the US, there are plenty of other major nations that can sway this situation with a heavier handed approach.

As an example, China back Palestine right? But yet they haven't cut ties with Israel have they?

It seems countries that have cut ties are a who's who of irrelevant nations.

comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 3 hours, 29 minutes ago
"South Africa had a criminal president and the whole world kissed his ass.
Not comparing Mandela to Trump"

Except where you are comparing the two
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The regime made him a criminal. Any regime can do that to opponents to disqualify them from office. Would you prefer that?

comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 7 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted about 6 hours ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by mancWoohoo- maximus mardius cob-onius (U10676)
posted 9 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c390mrmxndyo

How a convicted citizen is able to be the President of the United States continues to be ludicrous to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
South Africa had a criminal president and the whole world kissed his ass.
Not comparing Mandela to Trump, but what's to stop some government from charging people they see as their enemies with crimes just to disqualify them from running for office? Pretty sure Mandela wasn't the first and Trump won't be the last.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Could convicted felons vote in South Africa at the time ? (Or whatever the equivalent of Felon was there)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

South Africa was a pretty horrific state at the time, even attacking neighbouring countries for exiles. We took a guide to Mozambique who was a long time refugee in exile and highly sought after for years, it was kind of nuts how cantish South Africa was, I hadn't realised how brazen they were, it was mostly just a little before my time. As usual the world just pretty much ignored it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but what about the countries surrounding South Africa.

Do you ever read your own posts?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Que?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The countries around South Africa are/were not exactly bastions of freedom and democracy. The way you describe Israel's neighbours when you're justifying their response to the October attack.

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/01/02/will-elon-musk-dominate-president-trumps-economic-policy

A decent read

comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 3 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 7 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted about 6 hours ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by mancWoohoo- maximus mardius cob-onius (U10676)
posted 9 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c390mrmxndyo

How a convicted citizen is able to be the President of the United States continues to be ludicrous to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
South Africa had a criminal president and the whole world kissed his ass.
Not comparing Mandela to Trump, but what's to stop some government from charging people they see as their enemies with crimes just to disqualify them from running for office? Pretty sure Mandela wasn't the first and Trump won't be the last.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Could convicted felons vote in South Africa at the time ? (Or whatever the equivalent of Felon was there)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

South Africa was a pretty horrific state at the time, even attacking neighbouring countries for exiles. We took a guide to Mozambique who was a long time refugee in exile and highly sought after for years, it was kind of nuts how cantish South Africa was, I hadn't realised how brazen they were, it was mostly just a little before my time. As usual the world just pretty much ignored it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but what about the countries surrounding South Africa.

Do you ever read your own posts?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Que?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The countries around South Africa are/were not exactly bastions of freedom and democracy. The way you describe Israel's neighbours when you're justifying their response to the October attack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Who said countries around South Africa were bastions of freedom. Mozambique defied South Africa and opened its doors to freedom fighters to escape.

comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 4 hours, 13 minutes ago
"South Africa had a criminal president and the whole world kissed his ass.
Not comparing Mandela to Trump"

Except where you are comparing the two
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mandela was charged with having organized an illegal strike and with leaving the country without valid travel documents.

Wow, what a baddie.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/01/02/will-elon-musk-dominate-president-trumps-economic-policy

A decent read
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you summarise/share?