The criticism he got was from fans who thought he should have played Pogba ahead of certain senior players and who attributed Pogba's decision to move to his lack of opportunities. But Fergie was explicit that he wanted to keep Pogba. He didn't 'let him go' at all. Pogba was offered a new contract but made his mind up not to take it or to accept the club's assurances that he was very much in our plans.
It was Pogba's decision. Or Raiola's, to be more accurate.
Fergie wanted him to stay. Hence the contract offer. Hence the disappointed tone when he decided to leave for Juve.
United offered him a £15k a week contract, in line with other players at the same stage of their career at United. Pogba and Raiola wanted £20k.
United offered £20k. Pogba and Raiola wanted £30k. Pogba moves to Juve, on around £35k a week.
If he wanted to keep him he would have matched Juventus' offer though
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
The criticism he got was from fans who thought he should have played Pogba ahead of certain senior players and who attributed Pogba's decision to move to his lack of opportunities. But Fergie was explicit that he wanted to keep Pogba. He didn't 'let him go' at all. Pogba was offered a new contract but made his mind up not to take it or to accept the club's assurances that he was very much in our plans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fergie stated that there was an option for a one year renewal, so it seems they could have kept him if they wanted to. However like you say, the real issue was not playing him ahead of full backs in centre midfield etc. He didn't even come off the bench in that game. From that moment he probably decided he wasn't given a fair chance and wanted to move. Of course having Raiola as your agent wouldn't have helped.
This seems like a debate that has been regurgitated a thousand times on here.
Fergie didn't want to lose Pogba, but at the same time he wouldn't allow the club to be held to ransom by a teenager.
IMO this was where the signs were there that SAF was starting to come to the end.
There was a comment he made in an interview just before Pogba left that pointed me this way.
He was asked what was going on with Paul Pogba. His reply was he had no idea.
A Fergie at the top of his game knew every thing about every employee at the club let alone a player.
There was talk of an attitude problem from one of the youth coaches. This was very evident with him in the Euros for France since then.
What I do think SAF erred in was playing some crap players in our midfield when we had injuries and not giving Pogba a chance.
It was one of the few things my old mate Macca and I disagreed on.
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
This seems like a debate that has been regurgitated a thousand times on here.
Fergie didn't want to lose Pogba, but at the same time he wouldn't allow the club to be held to ransom by a teenager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Though it doesn’t seem that bad a move considering...
Hi Wahl, hope you’re well.
As always excellent article! I look forward to reading the debate.
My opinion on the matter is that SAF was totally vindicated. He didn’t want the club to be held ransom by a teenager with an ego problem. All that resigning the player has done it stagnate the club for a few years. The £80m spent could have been used a lot better
Fergie didn't want to lose Pogba, but at the same time he wouldn't allow the club to be held to ransom by a teenager.
-----------------
Contradiction
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 4 seconds ago
Fergie didn't want to lose Pogba, but at the same time he wouldn't allow the club to be held to ransom by a teenager.
-----------------
Contradiction
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a contradiction at all.
It is. If he wanted to keep him he would have matched Juventus' offer to keep him.
So Ferguson wanted to keep him and showed this by offering him an inferior contract that wasn't good enough for Pogba?
Doesn't seem like he wanted to keep him based on that.
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 1 minute ago
It is. If he wanted to keep him he would have matched Juventus' offer to keep him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not true and you know it. Don't be obtuse for the art of the WUM.
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 32 seconds ago
So Ferguson wanted to keep him and showed this by offering him an inferior contract that wasn't good enough for Pogba?
Doesn't seem like he wanted to keep him based on that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think Fergie didn't want to keep Ronaldo?
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 30 seconds ago
It is. If he wanted to keep him he would have matched Juventus' offer to keep him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It sounded like he would have liked him to stay but he wasn't willing to break his principles to accommodate him.
As soon as you start bowing to the wage demands of a teenager then you set a precedent for the future.
Maybe Fergie should have given him a chance (was it a match vs Blackburn?) but it seemed to me Pogba got above his station.
Fergie said in his book that as soon as he met Raoila he couldn't trust him.
It sounded like he would have liked him to stay but he wasn't willing to break his principles to accommodate him.
----------------------------
I get that but wanting him to stay isn't black and white. I'm sure He'd be happy for Pogba to stay if he didn't have to pay him anything for example. Clearly there was a limit to how much he wanted him to stay if he wasn't willing to meet Pogba's demands.
Say he has Messi there and messi asks for more than his 'principles' allow. You think Sir Alex doesn't give in to Messi's demands?
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 1 minute ago
It is. If he wanted to keep him he would have matched Juventus' offer to keep him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not true and you know it. Don't be obtuse for the art of the WUM.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not being obtuse. Clearly Sir Alex didn't want to keep him enough to meet his demands.
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 32 seconds ago
So Ferguson wanted to keep him and showed this by offering him an inferior contract that wasn't good enough for Pogba?
Doesn't seem like he wanted to keep him based on that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think Fergie didn't want to keep Ronaldo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was a way to keep Ronaldo he would have done it.
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 5 seconds ago
It sounded like he would have liked him to stay but he wasn't willing to break his principles to accommodate him.
----------------------------
I get that but wanting him to stay isn't black and white. I'm sure He'd be happy for Pogba to stay if he didn't have to pay him anything for example. Clearly there was a limit to how much he wanted him to stay if he wasn't willing to meet Pogba's demands.
Say he has Messi there and messi asks for more than his 'principles' allow. You think Sir Alex doesn't give in to Messi's demands?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He had Ronaldo there and gave into Ronaldo's demands to leave...
Ronaldo didn't leave because United weren't giving him enough money, he left because it was his dream to play for Real Madrid.
Fergie certainly wasn't going to bend over backwards for Pogba - either on pay or putting him in the team because he was threatening to walk if he didn't play ASAP. That doesn't mean Fergie was happy for him to go. It reflects an ethos that no one got to play or to get a big salary until they earned it, however talented they were. If you don't show the right attitude, you don't play. If a less talented player is running through walls while you down tools in the reserves because you think you're too good for this, the other guy gets picked. Sometimes this does lead to short-term losses in quality, but I don't think anyone can argue with how that ethos served Fergie in the bigger picture. You don't preserve that incredible competitiveness and togetherness that marked his teams by indulging talented individuals who haven't proved they will bleed for the team.
Moreover, in the light of what we've seen of Pogba's attitude since he came back, I find it easier to believe the rumours that he was behaving in a cocky, lazy manner while he perceived himself to be languishing unfairly with the reserves.
Pogba left because he wasn't patient, not because Fergie didn't want to keep him.
Fergie certainly wasn't going to bend over backwards for Pogba.... That doesn't mean Fergie was happy for him to go.
----------------------
I get that but the fact of the matter is he could have kept Pogba if he really wanted to but didn't want to that much. Which is all I've said.
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 2 minutes ago
It sounded like he would have liked him to stay but he wasn't willing to break his principles to accommodate him.
----------------------------
I get that but wanting him to stay isn't black and white. I'm sure He'd be happy for Pogba to stay if he didn't have to pay him anything for example. Clearly there was a limit to how much he wanted him to stay if he wasn't willing to meet Pogba's demands.
Say he has Messi there and messi asks for more than his 'principles' allow. You think Sir Alex doesn't give in to Messi's demands?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If that was an 18 year old Messi who hadn't played a game for the first team Fergie would have done the exact same.
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
Pogba left because he wasn't patient, not because Fergie didn't want to keep him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, he left because Sir Alex didn't do what was required to keep him. So he clearly didn't want to keep him enough.
Sign in if you want to comment
Has Sir Alex been vindicated
Page 1 of 4
posted on 14/6/19
The criticism he got was from fans who thought he should have played Pogba ahead of certain senior players and who attributed Pogba's decision to move to his lack of opportunities. But Fergie was explicit that he wanted to keep Pogba. He didn't 'let him go' at all. Pogba was offered a new contract but made his mind up not to take it or to accept the club's assurances that he was very much in our plans.
posted on 14/6/19
It was Pogba's decision. Or Raiola's, to be more accurate.
Fergie wanted him to stay. Hence the contract offer. Hence the disappointed tone when he decided to leave for Juve.
United offered him a £15k a week contract, in line with other players at the same stage of their career at United. Pogba and Raiola wanted £20k.
United offered £20k. Pogba and Raiola wanted £30k. Pogba moves to Juve, on around £35k a week.
posted on 14/6/19
If he wanted to keep him he would have matched Juventus' offer though
posted on 14/6/19
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
The criticism he got was from fans who thought he should have played Pogba ahead of certain senior players and who attributed Pogba's decision to move to his lack of opportunities. But Fergie was explicit that he wanted to keep Pogba. He didn't 'let him go' at all. Pogba was offered a new contract but made his mind up not to take it or to accept the club's assurances that he was very much in our plans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fergie stated that there was an option for a one year renewal, so it seems they could have kept him if they wanted to. However like you say, the real issue was not playing him ahead of full backs in centre midfield etc. He didn't even come off the bench in that game. From that moment he probably decided he wasn't given a fair chance and wanted to move. Of course having Raiola as your agent wouldn't have helped.
posted on 14/6/19
This seems like a debate that has been regurgitated a thousand times on here.
Fergie didn't want to lose Pogba, but at the same time he wouldn't allow the club to be held to ransom by a teenager.
posted on 14/6/19
IMO this was where the signs were there that SAF was starting to come to the end.
There was a comment he made in an interview just before Pogba left that pointed me this way.
He was asked what was going on with Paul Pogba. His reply was he had no idea.
A Fergie at the top of his game knew every thing about every employee at the club let alone a player.
There was talk of an attitude problem from one of the youth coaches. This was very evident with him in the Euros for France since then.
What I do think SAF erred in was playing some crap players in our midfield when we had injuries and not giving Pogba a chance.
It was one of the few things my old mate Macca and I disagreed on.
posted on 14/6/19
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
This seems like a debate that has been regurgitated a thousand times on here.
Fergie didn't want to lose Pogba, but at the same time he wouldn't allow the club to be held to ransom by a teenager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Though it doesn’t seem that bad a move considering...
posted on 14/6/19
Hi Wahl, hope you’re well.
As always excellent article! I look forward to reading the debate.
My opinion on the matter is that SAF was totally vindicated. He didn’t want the club to be held ransom by a teenager with an ego problem. All that resigning the player has done it stagnate the club for a few years. The £80m spent could have been used a lot better
posted on 14/6/19
Fergie didn't want to lose Pogba, but at the same time he wouldn't allow the club to be held to ransom by a teenager.
-----------------
Contradiction
posted on 14/6/19
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 4 seconds ago
Fergie didn't want to lose Pogba, but at the same time he wouldn't allow the club to be held to ransom by a teenager.
-----------------
Contradiction
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a contradiction at all.
posted on 14/6/19
It is. If he wanted to keep him he would have matched Juventus' offer to keep him.
posted on 14/6/19
So Ferguson wanted to keep him and showed this by offering him an inferior contract that wasn't good enough for Pogba?
Doesn't seem like he wanted to keep him based on that.
posted on 14/6/19
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 1 minute ago
It is. If he wanted to keep him he would have matched Juventus' offer to keep him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not true and you know it. Don't be obtuse for the art of the WUM.
posted on 14/6/19
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 32 seconds ago
So Ferguson wanted to keep him and showed this by offering him an inferior contract that wasn't good enough for Pogba?
Doesn't seem like he wanted to keep him based on that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think Fergie didn't want to keep Ronaldo?
posted on 14/6/19
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 30 seconds ago
It is. If he wanted to keep him he would have matched Juventus' offer to keep him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It sounded like he would have liked him to stay but he wasn't willing to break his principles to accommodate him.
As soon as you start bowing to the wage demands of a teenager then you set a precedent for the future.
Maybe Fergie should have given him a chance (was it a match vs Blackburn?) but it seemed to me Pogba got above his station.
Fergie said in his book that as soon as he met Raoila he couldn't trust him.
posted on 14/6/19
It sounded like he would have liked him to stay but he wasn't willing to break his principles to accommodate him.
----------------------------
I get that but wanting him to stay isn't black and white. I'm sure He'd be happy for Pogba to stay if he didn't have to pay him anything for example. Clearly there was a limit to how much he wanted him to stay if he wasn't willing to meet Pogba's demands.
Say he has Messi there and messi asks for more than his 'principles' allow. You think Sir Alex doesn't give in to Messi's demands?
posted on 14/6/19
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 1 minute ago
It is. If he wanted to keep him he would have matched Juventus' offer to keep him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not true and you know it. Don't be obtuse for the art of the WUM.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not being obtuse. Clearly Sir Alex didn't want to keep him enough to meet his demands.
posted on 14/6/19
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 32 seconds ago
So Ferguson wanted to keep him and showed this by offering him an inferior contract that wasn't good enough for Pogba?
Doesn't seem like he wanted to keep him based on that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think Fergie didn't want to keep Ronaldo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was a way to keep Ronaldo he would have done it.
posted on 14/6/19
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 5 seconds ago
It sounded like he would have liked him to stay but he wasn't willing to break his principles to accommodate him.
----------------------------
I get that but wanting him to stay isn't black and white. I'm sure He'd be happy for Pogba to stay if he didn't have to pay him anything for example. Clearly there was a limit to how much he wanted him to stay if he wasn't willing to meet Pogba's demands.
Say he has Messi there and messi asks for more than his 'principles' allow. You think Sir Alex doesn't give in to Messi's demands?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He had Ronaldo there and gave into Ronaldo's demands to leave...
posted on 14/6/19
Ronaldo didn't leave because United weren't giving him enough money, he left because it was his dream to play for Real Madrid.
posted on 14/6/19
Fergie certainly wasn't going to bend over backwards for Pogba - either on pay or putting him in the team because he was threatening to walk if he didn't play ASAP. That doesn't mean Fergie was happy for him to go. It reflects an ethos that no one got to play or to get a big salary until they earned it, however talented they were. If you don't show the right attitude, you don't play. If a less talented player is running through walls while you down tools in the reserves because you think you're too good for this, the other guy gets picked. Sometimes this does lead to short-term losses in quality, but I don't think anyone can argue with how that ethos served Fergie in the bigger picture. You don't preserve that incredible competitiveness and togetherness that marked his teams by indulging talented individuals who haven't proved they will bleed for the team.
Moreover, in the light of what we've seen of Pogba's attitude since he came back, I find it easier to believe the rumours that he was behaving in a cocky, lazy manner while he perceived himself to be languishing unfairly with the reserves.
posted on 14/6/19
Pogba left because he wasn't patient, not because Fergie didn't want to keep him.
posted on 14/6/19
Fergie certainly wasn't going to bend over backwards for Pogba.... That doesn't mean Fergie was happy for him to go.
----------------------
I get that but the fact of the matter is he could have kept Pogba if he really wanted to but didn't want to that much. Which is all I've said.
posted on 14/6/19
comment by Wahl (U22164)
posted 2 minutes ago
It sounded like he would have liked him to stay but he wasn't willing to break his principles to accommodate him.
----------------------------
I get that but wanting him to stay isn't black and white. I'm sure He'd be happy for Pogba to stay if he didn't have to pay him anything for example. Clearly there was a limit to how much he wanted him to stay if he wasn't willing to meet Pogba's demands.
Say he has Messi there and messi asks for more than his 'principles' allow. You think Sir Alex doesn't give in to Messi's demands?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If that was an 18 year old Messi who hadn't played a game for the first team Fergie would have done the exact same.
posted on 14/6/19
comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
Pogba left because he wasn't patient, not because Fergie didn't want to keep him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, he left because Sir Alex didn't do what was required to keep him. So he clearly didn't want to keep him enough.
Page 1 of 4