comment by Carefree since '88 (U12148)
posted 33 seconds ago
Control of the ball doesn't matter. You aren't allowed to foul an attacker and get away with it just because they are no longer in control of the ball.
In this case, I don't think Adrian made enough contact to commit a foul, so the above wouldn't apply regardless.
I can understand why VAR didn't reverse the decision. I do think they should have asked the ref to go take a look though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Control of the ball does matter.
If the flow of the game is not affected (i.e. it is an “off the ball” incident), the offense is misconduct rather than a foul, and an indirect free kick is given.
I thought VAR would have reviewed the missed penalty in the shootout too. That one to me was more clear cut and no need for interpretation.
Swings and roundabouts though.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 6 minutes ago
Regardless of whether it was a dive, I'm surprised they didn't take into account that Abraham didn't even have control of the ball. If he never went down then it would have been a goal kick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This ^
comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Carefree since '88 (U12148)
posted 33 seconds ago
Control of the ball doesn't matter. You aren't allowed to foul an attacker and get away with it just because they are no longer in control of the ball.
In this case, I don't think Adrian made enough contact to commit a foul, so the above wouldn't apply regardless.
I can understand why VAR didn't reverse the decision. I do think they should have asked the ref to go take a look though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Control of the ball does matter.
If the flow of the game is not affected (i.e. it is an “off the ball” incident), the offense is misconduct rather than a foul, and an indirect free kick is given.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, I stand corrected then. What about shirt pulling from a corner, should they be indirect freekicks over penalties?
Or, an attacker takes an unimpeded shot, then gets wiped out by a defender, should that be an indirect freekick over a pen (they don't even usually get given tbf, which is another topic for debate).
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 21 minutes ago
Stop crying it wasnt a blatant dive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We won 🙄
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Congrats
Still wasn't a blatant dive
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 6 minutes ago
Regardless of whether it was a dive, I'm surprised they didn't take into account that Abraham didn't even have control of the ball. If he never went down then it would have been a goal kick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This ^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...is bolloxs
It's like some Liverpool fans can't see how similar this is to when their own players go down with minimal contact
Some argue that a light touch isn't enough for it to be a foul, some argue it is - that's a separate debate to the blatant hypocrisy being illustrated here.
I've never heard a Liverpool supporter argue it isn't a foul when it's one of their own...
comment by Carefree since '88 (U12148)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Carefree since '88 (U12148)
posted 33 seconds ago
Control of the ball doesn't matter. You aren't allowed to foul an attacker and get away with it just because they are no longer in control of the ball.
In this case, I don't think Adrian made enough contact to commit a foul, so the above wouldn't apply regardless.
I can understand why VAR didn't reverse the decision. I do think they should have asked the ref to go take a look though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Control of the ball does matter.
If the flow of the game is not affected (i.e. it is an “off the ball” incident), the offense is misconduct rather than a foul, and an indirect free kick is given.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, I stand corrected then. What about shirt pulling from a corner, should they be indirect freekicks over penalties?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It all depends on whether the referee adjudges the offence to impact the flow of the game.
Simple answer is do you really think the powers that be would want the first women ref in a major match to be proven wrong. Var was never going to reverse her decision and run the risk of the "told you so" brigade coming out and question this appointment ?
Women in football is the current theme, and we all got to get used to it.
Not sure it was an intentional dive, as although the keeper did not touch him, there was a lot of forward momentum by the attacker. But yeah, should have been overturned.
Oh and the media going crazy ( as usual ) with Liverpool.....firstly it is not a European trophy that they are now adding to Liverpool's European trophy haul. Is a glorified European charity shield, that no one in the past has counted as a major win, like their respective league, domestic cup, or the two main European trophies. Seriously it is just an end/start of of season sweeter. And secondly they did not "win" the game. It was a draw. Like every pen shootout gone in the past, just the luck of the draw who scored / misses more. Really cannot claim a "win" with as much enthusiasm as they are doing. Guess we have all come to expect this, but do the media really need to encourage it with their own usual enthusiasm for all things Liverpool ?
comment by Messi is the GOAT Super European Champions (U11882)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054
And there’s no way from the ref’s or the VAR angle that people should be claiming it was a “blatant dive”.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a thought, if you're going to spend millions of pounds on video assistance, you shouldn't be cost cutting on the angles used. The angles used to judge that pen were a disgrace. Then BT showed a clear angle that showed it was 100% a dive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not arguing about the use of VAR in this case. I’m taking umbrage with those who have said that the ref made an obvious mistake because it was a “blatant dive”.
I also disagree with your last point. The BT angle doesn’t rule out contact. As such, you cannot argue that it was “100% a dive”.
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 6 minutes ago
Regardless of whether it was a dive, I'm surprised they didn't take into account that Abraham didn't even have control of the ball. If he never went down then it would have been a goal kick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This ^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...is bolloxs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont think he dived but I think his touch and momentum would have ran him a out of play anyway before controlling the ball.
The ref obviously thought there was enough contact from the keeper to lesson his chances
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 20 minutes ago
I thought VAR would have reviewed the missed penalty in the shootout too. That one to me was more clear cut and no need for interpretation.
Swings and roundabouts though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this
comment by SteveF (U22027)
posted 5 minutes ago
Simple answer is do you really think the powers that be would want the first women ref in a major match to be proven wrong. Var was never going to reverse her decision and run the risk of the "told you so" brigade coming out and question this appointment ?
Women in football is the current theme, and we all got to get used to it.
Not sure it was an intentional dive, as although the keeper did not touch him, there was a lot of forward momentum by the attacker. But yeah, should have been overturned.
Oh and the media going crazy ( as usual ) with Liverpool.....firstly it is not a European trophy that they are now adding to Liverpool's European trophy haul. Is a glorified European charity shield, that no one in the past has counted as a major win, like their respective league, domestic cup, or the two main European trophies. Seriously it is just an end/start of of season sweeter. And secondly they did not "win" the game. It was a draw. Like every pen shootout gone in the past, just the luck of the draw who scored / misses more. Really cannot claim a "win" with as much enthusiasm as they are doing. Guess we have all come to expect this, but do the media really need to encourage it with their own usual enthusiasm for all things Liverpool ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SteveF is FUMING
Super European Champions
Was the missed penalty the only penalty where the keeper came off his line?
Its getting so much attention just wondering if that's because it was the one that won it.
comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 14 minutes ago
It's like some Liverpool fans can't see how similar this is to when their own players go down with minimal contact
Some argue that a light touch isn't enough for it to be a foul, some argue it is - that's a separate debate to the blatant hypocrisy being illustrated here.
I've never heard a Liverpool supporter argue it isn't a foul when it's one of their own...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course we can. But why shouldn’t they do it when everyone else is doing it, when the rules allow you to do it? The hope was that VAR would help to prevent this across the field, so that no one does it. Last night proved this won’t happen.
That’s the point of the article, nothing hypocritical about it.
Penalty or not, it was a good game, Liverpool fans got the trophy their ego's demand, Chelsea fans get another decent performance to give optimism for the coming season!
Shouldn't everyone be happy!
comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
A direct free kick is given by the referee if an opposition player carelessly, recklessly or by using excessive force “impedes the progress of the opponent [in control of the ball] with contact”; likewise if an opposition player “trips or attempts to trip” the opposition player.
----------------------------------------------------
Out of interest, what laws of the game are you referencing, as I can't find any mention of "control of the ball" in the current laws when it comes to direct free kicks.
comment by SteveF (U22027)
Simple answer is do you really think the powers that be would want the first women ref in a major match to be proven wrong. Var was never going to reverse her decision and run the risk of the "told you so" brigade coming out and question this appointment ?
Women in football is the current theme, and we all got to get used to it.
Not sure it was an intentional dive, as although the keeper did not touch him, there was a lot of forward momentum by the attacker. But yeah, should have been overturned.
Oh and the media going crazy ( as usual ) with Liverpool.....firstly it is not a European trophy that they are now adding to Liverpool's European trophy haul. Is a glorified European charity shield, that no one in the past has counted as a major win, like their respective league, domestic cup, or the two main European trophies. Seriously it is just an end/start of of season sweeter. And secondly they did not "win" the game. It was a draw. Like every pen shootout gone in the past, just the luck of the draw who scored / misses more. Really cannot claim a "win" with as much enthusiasm as they are doing. Guess we have all come to expect this, but do the media really need to encourage it with
======
So you’re quids in with Mane and Salah then
Im pretty sure the pitch at Anfield has Teflon coating to match Salah and Manes boots
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 6 minutes ago
Regardless of whether it was a dive, I'm surprised they didn't take into account that Abraham didn't even have control of the ball. If he never went down then it would have been a goal kick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This ^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...is bolloxs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont think he dived but I think his touch and momentum would have ran him a out of play anyway before controlling the ball.
The ref obviously thought there was enough contact from the keeper to lesson his chances
------------------------------------------------------------------
So are you saying that the contact on his leg was sufficient enough to trip him up or are you saying the contact on his leg was sufficient enough to award a penalty? If its the latter then that is up for debate, if its the former then you are talking utter rubbish!!!
So my take is this:
Is contact a penalty? - if so, it was a penalty (just!)
Does contact have to be enough to effect a player's run/kick/dribble etc? if so, it isn't a penalty.
I think VAR is a red herring here - this is about the rules of the game. Personally, i like the way VAR was used - ref gave a decision, reviewed by VAR, on pitch ref upheld as it wasn't a blatant 'error' (whether you think it was a pen or not, it was marginal either way).
Personally i would have hated for the ref to view a monitor - personally i hate this element of VAR!
Dont understand how some have judged what the VAR refs saw (how do you know this?!).
Sign in if you want to comment
VAR
Page 3 of 4
posted on 15/8/19
comment by Carefree since '88 (U12148)
posted 33 seconds ago
Control of the ball doesn't matter. You aren't allowed to foul an attacker and get away with it just because they are no longer in control of the ball.
In this case, I don't think Adrian made enough contact to commit a foul, so the above wouldn't apply regardless.
I can understand why VAR didn't reverse the decision. I do think they should have asked the ref to go take a look though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Control of the ball does matter.
If the flow of the game is not affected (i.e. it is an “off the ball” incident), the offense is misconduct rather than a foul, and an indirect free kick is given.
posted on 15/8/19
I thought VAR would have reviewed the missed penalty in the shootout too. That one to me was more clear cut and no need for interpretation.
Swings and roundabouts though.
posted on 15/8/19
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 6 minutes ago
Regardless of whether it was a dive, I'm surprised they didn't take into account that Abraham didn't even have control of the ball. If he never went down then it would have been a goal kick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This ^
posted on 15/8/19
comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Carefree since '88 (U12148)
posted 33 seconds ago
Control of the ball doesn't matter. You aren't allowed to foul an attacker and get away with it just because they are no longer in control of the ball.
In this case, I don't think Adrian made enough contact to commit a foul, so the above wouldn't apply regardless.
I can understand why VAR didn't reverse the decision. I do think they should have asked the ref to go take a look though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Control of the ball does matter.
If the flow of the game is not affected (i.e. it is an “off the ball” incident), the offense is misconduct rather than a foul, and an indirect free kick is given.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, I stand corrected then. What about shirt pulling from a corner, should they be indirect freekicks over penalties?
posted on 15/8/19
Or, an attacker takes an unimpeded shot, then gets wiped out by a defender, should that be an indirect freekick over a pen (they don't even usually get given tbf, which is another topic for debate).
posted on 15/8/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 15/8/19
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 21 minutes ago
Stop crying it wasnt a blatant dive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We won 🙄
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Congrats
Still wasn't a blatant dive
posted on 15/8/19
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 6 minutes ago
Regardless of whether it was a dive, I'm surprised they didn't take into account that Abraham didn't even have control of the ball. If he never went down then it would have been a goal kick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This ^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...is bolloxs
posted on 15/8/19
It's like some Liverpool fans can't see how similar this is to when their own players go down with minimal contact
Some argue that a light touch isn't enough for it to be a foul, some argue it is - that's a separate debate to the blatant hypocrisy being illustrated here.
I've never heard a Liverpool supporter argue it isn't a foul when it's one of their own...
posted on 15/8/19
comment by Carefree since '88 (U12148)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Carefree since '88 (U12148)
posted 33 seconds ago
Control of the ball doesn't matter. You aren't allowed to foul an attacker and get away with it just because they are no longer in control of the ball.
In this case, I don't think Adrian made enough contact to commit a foul, so the above wouldn't apply regardless.
I can understand why VAR didn't reverse the decision. I do think they should have asked the ref to go take a look though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Control of the ball does matter.
If the flow of the game is not affected (i.e. it is an “off the ball” incident), the offense is misconduct rather than a foul, and an indirect free kick is given.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, I stand corrected then. What about shirt pulling from a corner, should they be indirect freekicks over penalties?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It all depends on whether the referee adjudges the offence to impact the flow of the game.
posted on 15/8/19
Simple answer is do you really think the powers that be would want the first women ref in a major match to be proven wrong. Var was never going to reverse her decision and run the risk of the "told you so" brigade coming out and question this appointment ?
Women in football is the current theme, and we all got to get used to it.
Not sure it was an intentional dive, as although the keeper did not touch him, there was a lot of forward momentum by the attacker. But yeah, should have been overturned.
Oh and the media going crazy ( as usual ) with Liverpool.....firstly it is not a European trophy that they are now adding to Liverpool's European trophy haul. Is a glorified European charity shield, that no one in the past has counted as a major win, like their respective league, domestic cup, or the two main European trophies. Seriously it is just an end/start of of season sweeter. And secondly they did not "win" the game. It was a draw. Like every pen shootout gone in the past, just the luck of the draw who scored / misses more. Really cannot claim a "win" with as much enthusiasm as they are doing. Guess we have all come to expect this, but do the media really need to encourage it with their own usual enthusiasm for all things Liverpool ?
posted on 15/8/19
comment by Messi is the GOAT Super European Champions (U11882)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054
And there’s no way from the ref’s or the VAR angle that people should be claiming it was a “blatant dive”.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a thought, if you're going to spend millions of pounds on video assistance, you shouldn't be cost cutting on the angles used. The angles used to judge that pen were a disgrace. Then BT showed a clear angle that showed it was 100% a dive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not arguing about the use of VAR in this case. I’m taking umbrage with those who have said that the ref made an obvious mistake because it was a “blatant dive”.
I also disagree with your last point. The BT angle doesn’t rule out contact. As such, you cannot argue that it was “100% a dive”.
posted on 15/8/19
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 6 minutes ago
Regardless of whether it was a dive, I'm surprised they didn't take into account that Abraham didn't even have control of the ball. If he never went down then it would have been a goal kick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This ^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...is bolloxs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont think he dived but I think his touch and momentum would have ran him a out of play anyway before controlling the ball.
The ref obviously thought there was enough contact from the keeper to lesson his chances
posted on 15/8/19
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 20 minutes ago
I thought VAR would have reviewed the missed penalty in the shootout too. That one to me was more clear cut and no need for interpretation.
Swings and roundabouts though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this
posted on 15/8/19
comment by SteveF (U22027)
posted 5 minutes ago
Simple answer is do you really think the powers that be would want the first women ref in a major match to be proven wrong. Var was never going to reverse her decision and run the risk of the "told you so" brigade coming out and question this appointment ?
Women in football is the current theme, and we all got to get used to it.
Not sure it was an intentional dive, as although the keeper did not touch him, there was a lot of forward momentum by the attacker. But yeah, should have been overturned.
Oh and the media going crazy ( as usual ) with Liverpool.....firstly it is not a European trophy that they are now adding to Liverpool's European trophy haul. Is a glorified European charity shield, that no one in the past has counted as a major win, like their respective league, domestic cup, or the two main European trophies. Seriously it is just an end/start of of season sweeter. And secondly they did not "win" the game. It was a draw. Like every pen shootout gone in the past, just the luck of the draw who scored / misses more. Really cannot claim a "win" with as much enthusiasm as they are doing. Guess we have all come to expect this, but do the media really need to encourage it with their own usual enthusiasm for all things Liverpool ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SteveF is FUMING
Super European Champions
posted on 15/8/19
Was the missed penalty the only penalty where the keeper came off his line?
Its getting so much attention just wondering if that's because it was the one that won it.
posted on 15/8/19
comment by Scruttocks (U19684)
posted 14 minutes ago
It's like some Liverpool fans can't see how similar this is to when their own players go down with minimal contact
Some argue that a light touch isn't enough for it to be a foul, some argue it is - that's a separate debate to the blatant hypocrisy being illustrated here.
I've never heard a Liverpool supporter argue it isn't a foul when it's one of their own...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course we can. But why shouldn’t they do it when everyone else is doing it, when the rules allow you to do it? The hope was that VAR would help to prevent this across the field, so that no one does it. Last night proved this won’t happen.
That’s the point of the article, nothing hypocritical about it.
posted on 15/8/19
Penalty or not, it was a good game, Liverpool fans got the trophy their ego's demand, Chelsea fans get another decent performance to give optimism for the coming season!
Shouldn't everyone be happy!
posted on 15/8/19
comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
A direct free kick is given by the referee if an opposition player carelessly, recklessly or by using excessive force “impedes the progress of the opponent [in control of the ball] with contact”; likewise if an opposition player “trips or attempts to trip” the opposition player.
----------------------------------------------------
Out of interest, what laws of the game are you referencing, as I can't find any mention of "control of the ball" in the current laws when it comes to direct free kicks.
posted on 15/8/19
comment by SteveF (U22027)
Simple answer is do you really think the powers that be would want the first women ref in a major match to be proven wrong. Var was never going to reverse her decision and run the risk of the "told you so" brigade coming out and question this appointment ?
Women in football is the current theme, and we all got to get used to it.
Not sure it was an intentional dive, as although the keeper did not touch him, there was a lot of forward momentum by the attacker. But yeah, should have been overturned.
Oh and the media going crazy ( as usual ) with Liverpool.....firstly it is not a European trophy that they are now adding to Liverpool's European trophy haul. Is a glorified European charity shield, that no one in the past has counted as a major win, like their respective league, domestic cup, or the two main European trophies. Seriously it is just an end/start of of season sweeter. And secondly they did not "win" the game. It was a draw. Like every pen shootout gone in the past, just the luck of the draw who scored / misses more. Really cannot claim a "win" with as much enthusiasm as they are doing. Guess we have all come to expect this, but do the media really need to encourage it with
======
posted on 15/8/19
So you’re quids in with Mane and Salah then
posted on 15/8/19
Im pretty sure the pitch at Anfield has Teflon coating to match Salah and Manes boots
posted on 15/8/19
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by TheWhiteWall (U17633)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Roys Keane (U11635)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 6 minutes ago
Regardless of whether it was a dive, I'm surprised they didn't take into account that Abraham didn't even have control of the ball. If he never went down then it would have been a goal kick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This ^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...is bolloxs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont think he dived but I think his touch and momentum would have ran him a out of play anyway before controlling the ball.
The ref obviously thought there was enough contact from the keeper to lesson his chances
------------------------------------------------------------------
So are you saying that the contact on his leg was sufficient enough to trip him up or are you saying the contact on his leg was sufficient enough to award a penalty? If its the latter then that is up for debate, if its the former then you are talking utter rubbish!!!
posted on 15/8/19
Aye.
posted on 15/8/19
So my take is this:
Is contact a penalty? - if so, it was a penalty (just!)
Does contact have to be enough to effect a player's run/kick/dribble etc? if so, it isn't a penalty.
I think VAR is a red herring here - this is about the rules of the game. Personally, i like the way VAR was used - ref gave a decision, reviewed by VAR, on pitch ref upheld as it wasn't a blatant 'error' (whether you think it was a pen or not, it was marginal either way).
Personally i would have hated for the ref to view a monitor - personally i hate this element of VAR!
Dont understand how some have judged what the VAR refs saw (how do you know this?!).
Page 3 of 4