I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 hours, 40 minutes ago
Out of all the countries I have lived in or been in for any long period of time I would say the UK is the most racial tolerant of all of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Among it's peers the UK is doing well.
Always room for improvement though.
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 3 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its funny, at the end of the post I clearly ask the question "am I reading too much into this"
But the mob come out with their opinions and never bother about the bias I have pointed out. Not that I expect anything.
Would have been interesting to see if a few united fans would back Pogba but looks like he deserves the abuse because he is lazy and rich.
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
I dont think black players get treated worse in terms of on field performance but their attitude is often more highly scrutinised imo
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 6 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do have a point that if you are flashy, rich and a social media hit just like Pogba and to an extent Mendy the criticism borders on racism in my opinion.
If you are meek and quiet and get about your stuff like a wijnaldum for example you dont get the same exposure to the racist mob.
I must say Im not guilty of it either. I remember whe Rio was being charged for missing the drugs test, my hatred for united and his flashy lifestyle haircuts etc probably pushed me to think he deserved that 9 month ban. Any other player with a less extravagant life I may have thought differently.
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 4 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
------
Nail
On
Head.
IMO, it ties in with football authorities failing to deal properly with racism. People running the game have a similar attitude as highlighted by Kompany and therefore its impossible for them to do anything meaningful unless there is no other choice and they are in a corner.
For many people the first port of call is denial. Fake and false allegations of racism only serve to complicate the matter as it gives denyers grounds to deny racism has occurred on future occasions.
comment by Naby one Kenaby - The flop is strong with this... (U1282)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 4 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
------
Nail
On
Head.
IMO, it ties in with football authorities failing to deal properly with racism. People running the game have a similar attitude as highlighted by Kompany and therefore its impossible for them to do anything meaningful unless there is no other choice and they are in a corner.
For many people the first port of call is denial. Fake and false allegations of racism only serve to complicate the matter as it gives denyers grounds to deny racism has occurred on future occasions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hahaha so someone doesnt agree with you and you call my opinion crap. Like I said if sterling was your man of the match scored 2 goals, hit post, ran his socks off thats your opinion but I wont agree with that nonsense so you can do one.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Naby one Kenaby - The flop is strong with this... (U1282)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 4 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
------
Nail
On
Head.
IMO, it ties in with football authorities failing to deal properly with racism. People running the game have a similar attitude as highlighted by Kompany and therefore its impossible for them to do anything meaningful unless there is no other choice and they are in a corner.
For many people the first port of call is denial. Fake and false allegations of racism only serve to complicate the matter as it gives denyers grounds to deny racism has occurred on future occasions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly what. I didnt call for racisim I just asked a question and you went on the defensive. Probably wore the suarez ti-shirt.
Bottom line is there is inherent racisim and its deep rooted and you only see it in the different treatment.
So someone cant ask the question because it makes racism worse. open your eyes this thing is actually there.Im not talking about something that doesnt exist in society.If it makes you uncomfortable stay of my article.
Dont have to listen to me call racisim if thats what you think I did. Just jog on then
comment by gunnersaurus rex (U21846)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hahaha so someone doesnt agree with you and you call my opinion crap. Like I said if sterling was your man of the match scored 2 goals, hit post, ran his socks off thats your opinion but I wont agree with that nonsense so you can do one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasnt calling your opinion crap. I was saying the phrase the guy used above in regards to the claim Mendy being singled out being racism was crap.
I would have a better claim for your racism, with you singling out Sterling as costing City the game after he scored two goals, nearly got a hat trick and in general did the job if two players after City went down to ten but then I don't claim racism just because a player who was criticised for his performance happens to be black. You brought skin colour up, nobody else, everybody else criticised Mendy's defending and stupid decision not to go down or clear the ball. His skin colour has nothing to do with it.
As I said before, this kind of claim is why some people get frustrated and deny real cases of racism. Granted everything should be judged on it's own merit but we both know that isn't the case.
Lets agree to disagree TOOR. At some point you said Im wuming and the response of other guys here suggests Im not. You lost me there, so lets just agree to disagree.
comment by gunnersaurus rex (U21846)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Naby one Kenaby - The flop is strong with this... (U1282)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 4 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
------
Nail
On
Head.
IMO, it ties in with football authorities failing to deal properly with racism. People running the game have a similar attitude as highlighted by Kompany and therefore its impossible for them to do anything meaningful unless there is no other choice and they are in a corner.
For many people the first port of call is denial. Fake and false allegations of racism only serve to complicate the matter as it gives denyers grounds to deny racism has occurred on future occasions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly what. I didnt call for racisim I just asked a question and you went on the defensive. Probably wore the suarez ti-shirt.
Bottom line is there is inherent racisim and its deep rooted and you only see it in the different treatment.
So someone cant ask the question because it makes racism worse. open your eyes this thing is actually there.Im not talking about something that doesnt exist in society.If it makes you uncomfortable stay of my article.
Dont have to listen to me call racisim if thats what you think I did. Just jog on then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree there is racism and I agree it is deep rooted what I disagree with is people making false claims of racism, diluting the issue by claiming criticism of a poor performance is racism as the player happens to be black, despite all players getting criticised when they have a poor game. This annoys me as some people feel after reading this type of thing that their denial is justified.
Wise up.
comment by gunnersaurus rex (U21846)
posted 8 seconds ago
Lets agree to disagree TOOR. At some point you said Im wuming and the response of other guys here suggests Im not. You lost me there, so lets just agree to disagree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w5WOb8jPLQ
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with all this but the example used was ridiculous, in my opinion.
We live in a country full of racists, virtually everyone that voted Tory to start with. The general election was nothing more than a vote on racism.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with all this but the example used was ridiculous, in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get you but you're proving my point. People always want to rubbish one little point to rubbish the whole point. If you can prove his example is rubbish, then you can prove racism isnt there. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLT54QjclA
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with all this but the example used was ridiculous, in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get you but you're proving my point. People always want to rubbish one little point to rubbish the whole point. If you can prove his example is rubbish, then you can prove racism isnt there. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLT54QjclA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I'm not. You're attributing what you believe other people do(and I agree with this) to me. Claiming racism due to a player being criticised for a poor performance is ridiculous and as I said before dilutes actual racism and gives the people you speak of examples which they believe back up their viewpoint.
It's these people that need convincing, not about easy to see racism but about the underlying racism they don't believe occurs and by using a player who happens to be black being criticised for having a poor game, makes this more difficult. Even if I am one of those people you speak of and this was an example of it, this has proved this point as instead of me joining in the condemnation of underlying racism I'm here denying that it occurred.
If we use proper examples, we'll convince more people to inspect their underlying thoughts, rather than deny they're there.
Also I believe the woman in the video is saying she believes things which she doesn't, to try prove a point. If she believed them, she wouldn't have made the video. Good intentions but I don't believe her.
I feel that shes basically saying if you're white, you're a racist. This is racist in itself.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with all this but the example used was ridiculous, in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get you but you're proving my point. People always want to rubbish one little point to rubbish the whole point. If you can prove his example is rubbish, then you can prove racism isnt there. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLT54QjclA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I'm not. You're attributing what you believe other people do(and I agree with this) to me. Claiming racism due to a player being criticised for a poor performance is ridiculous and as I said before dilutes actual racism and gives the people you speak of examples which they believe back up their viewpoint.
It's these people that need convincing, not about easy to see racism but about the underlying racism they don't believe occurs and by using a player who happens to be black being criticised for having a poor game, makes this more difficult. Even if I am one of those people you speak of and this was an example of it, this has proved this point as instead of me joining in the condemnation of underlying racism I'm here denying that it occurred.
If we use proper examples, we'll convince more people to inspect their underlying thoughts, rather than deny they're there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get ya. There is however never a great example unless a banana has been thrown on the pitch. That's why we can sit here and debate Mendy (i didnt read the city article, nor do i know the story there i was talking about the general sentiment ususally).
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 8 hours, 25 minutes ago
Firstly, calling out the City fan for that article is uncalled for. Mendy is crap - the reason Sterling was not called out the same way is because he has 'credit in the bank' so to speak, as he is generally one of their best players. As for Otamendi, City fans criticise him all the time.
As for your point in general, there is maybe a point to it. Ive always found it strange how Pogba is called out constantly by the media for his lack of professionalism and at times has even been called a cancer at the club, despite absolutely zero evidence of this being the case other than flash haircuts and dance moves.
Contrast with Phil Jones who also dyes his hair and covers himself in tattoos (not that there is anything wrong with this), yet is viewed as some kind of warrior in England despite spending most of his career on the treatment table (and interestingly has not once been accused of faking it like Pogba has these past 3 months)
I wouldn't ever call these people racists but I have always thought it's possible there is some subconscious bias from the likes of Souness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This hits the point way better than the OP in which the argument is very poorly put forward.
The media and some fans definitely have an agenda against these players... Sterling included!
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 14 minutes ago
Also I believe the woman in the video is saying she believes things which she doesn't, to try prove a point. If she believed them, she wouldn't have made the video. Good intentions but I don't believe her.
I feel that shes basically saying if you're white, you're a racist. This is racist in itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She's a doctor in that field so she's giving an observation of how she understands the world shapes her world view. She said we are all influenced one way or the other (white and black). She's also speaking in hindsight after studying this for decades.
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with all this but the example used was ridiculous, in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get you but you're proving my point. People always want to rubbish one little point to rubbish the whole point. If you can prove his example is rubbish, then you can prove racism isnt there. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLT54QjclA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I'm not. You're attributing what you believe other people do(and I agree with this) to me. Claiming racism due to a player being criticised for a poor performance is ridiculous and as I said before dilutes actual racism and gives the people you speak of examples which they believe back up their viewpoint.
It's these people that need convincing, not about easy to see racism but about the underlying racism they don't believe occurs and by using a player who happens to be black being criticised for having a poor game, makes this more difficult. Even if I am one of those people you speak of and this was an example of it, this has proved this point as instead of me joining in the condemnation of underlying racism I'm here denying that it occurred.
If we use proper examples, we'll convince more people to inspect their underlying thoughts, rather than deny they're there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get ya. There is however never a great example unless a banana has been thrown on the pitch. That's why we can sit here and debate Mendy (i didnt read the city article, nor do i know the story there i was talking about the general sentiment ususally).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK then we're debating for no reason as I agree with the general sentiment but not the example used. The example used was simply somebody saying that a player was rubbish at defending. Which you can understand after the performance he put in against Wolves and the mistake he made playing the most significant part in City not holding on. Whether he is black or not is completely irrelevant.
There are good examples. Let me try one.
I often see people online saying "All lives matter, not just black lives". For me anybody who says this whilst not believing they are racist are showing signs of underlying or covert racism.
Then you have people who try to show you they are not racist by saying things like "when I look at a black person, I don't see them as black". For me that is another good example of covert racism and I have no doubt a person with black skin would find that offensive. Why don't you see the person as black? Of course you do, it's about accepting that as completely normal and it not actually being something you have to say.
What this woman says, basically that all white people are racists, whether it's covert or not, is another way or justifying what deniers believe.
Sign in if you want to comment
Are we racist against Black players
Page 4 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 29/12/19
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 hours, 40 minutes ago
Out of all the countries I have lived in or been in for any long period of time I would say the UK is the most racial tolerant of all of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Among it's peers the UK is doing well.
Always room for improvement though.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 3 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its funny, at the end of the post I clearly ask the question "am I reading too much into this"
But the mob come out with their opinions and never bother about the bias I have pointed out. Not that I expect anything.
Would have been interesting to see if a few united fans would back Pogba but looks like he deserves the abuse because he is lazy and rich.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
posted on 29/12/19
I dont think black players get treated worse in terms of on field performance but their attitude is often more highly scrutinised imo
posted on 29/12/19
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 6 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do have a point that if you are flashy, rich and a social media hit just like Pogba and to an extent Mendy the criticism borders on racism in my opinion.
If you are meek and quiet and get about your stuff like a wijnaldum for example you dont get the same exposure to the racist mob.
I must say Im not guilty of it either. I remember whe Rio was being charged for missing the drugs test, my hatred for united and his flashy lifestyle haircuts etc probably pushed me to think he deserved that 9 month ban. Any other player with a less extravagant life I may have thought differently.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 4 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
------
Nail
On
Head.
IMO, it ties in with football authorities failing to deal properly with racism. People running the game have a similar attitude as highlighted by Kompany and therefore its impossible for them to do anything meaningful unless there is no other choice and they are in a corner.
For many people the first port of call is denial. Fake and false allegations of racism only serve to complicate the matter as it gives denyers grounds to deny racism has occurred on future occasions.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by Naby one Kenaby - The flop is strong with this... (U1282)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 4 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
------
Nail
On
Head.
IMO, it ties in with football authorities failing to deal properly with racism. People running the game have a similar attitude as highlighted by Kompany and therefore its impossible for them to do anything meaningful unless there is no other choice and they are in a corner.
For many people the first port of call is denial. Fake and false allegations of racism only serve to complicate the matter as it gives denyers grounds to deny racism has occurred on future occasions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hahaha so someone doesnt agree with you and you call my opinion crap. Like I said if sterling was your man of the match scored 2 goals, hit post, ran his socks off thats your opinion but I wont agree with that nonsense so you can do one.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Naby one Kenaby - The flop is strong with this... (U1282)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 4 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
------
Nail
On
Head.
IMO, it ties in with football authorities failing to deal properly with racism. People running the game have a similar attitude as highlighted by Kompany and therefore its impossible for them to do anything meaningful unless there is no other choice and they are in a corner.
For many people the first port of call is denial. Fake and false allegations of racism only serve to complicate the matter as it gives denyers grounds to deny racism has occurred on future occasions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly what. I didnt call for racisim I just asked a question and you went on the defensive. Probably wore the suarez ti-shirt.
Bottom line is there is inherent racisim and its deep rooted and you only see it in the different treatment.
So someone cant ask the question because it makes racism worse. open your eyes this thing is actually there.Im not talking about something that doesnt exist in society.If it makes you uncomfortable stay of my article.
Dont have to listen to me call racisim if thats what you think I did. Just jog on then
posted on 29/12/19
comment by gunnersaurus rex (U21846)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hahaha so someone doesnt agree with you and you call my opinion crap. Like I said if sterling was your man of the match scored 2 goals, hit post, ran his socks off thats your opinion but I wont agree with that nonsense so you can do one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasnt calling your opinion crap. I was saying the phrase the guy used above in regards to the claim Mendy being singled out being racism was crap.
I would have a better claim for your racism, with you singling out Sterling as costing City the game after he scored two goals, nearly got a hat trick and in general did the job if two players after City went down to ten but then I don't claim racism just because a player who was criticised for his performance happens to be black. You brought skin colour up, nobody else, everybody else criticised Mendy's defending and stupid decision not to go down or clear the ball. His skin colour has nothing to do with it.
As I said before, this kind of claim is why some people get frustrated and deny real cases of racism. Granted everything should be judged on it's own merit but we both know that isn't the case.
posted on 29/12/19
Lets agree to disagree TOOR. At some point you said Im wuming and the response of other guys here suggests Im not. You lost me there, so lets just agree to disagree.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by gunnersaurus rex (U21846)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Naby one Kenaby - The flop is strong with this... (U1282)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 4 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
------
Nail
On
Head.
IMO, it ties in with football authorities failing to deal properly with racism. People running the game have a similar attitude as highlighted by Kompany and therefore its impossible for them to do anything meaningful unless there is no other choice and they are in a corner.
For many people the first port of call is denial. Fake and false allegations of racism only serve to complicate the matter as it gives denyers grounds to deny racism has occurred on future occasions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly what. I didnt call for racisim I just asked a question and you went on the defensive. Probably wore the suarez ti-shirt.
Bottom line is there is inherent racisim and its deep rooted and you only see it in the different treatment.
So someone cant ask the question because it makes racism worse. open your eyes this thing is actually there.Im not talking about something that doesnt exist in society.If it makes you uncomfortable stay of my article.
Dont have to listen to me call racisim if thats what you think I did. Just jog on then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree there is racism and I agree it is deep rooted what I disagree with is people making false claims of racism, diluting the issue by claiming criticism of a poor performance is racism as the player happens to be black, despite all players getting criticised when they have a poor game. This annoys me as some people feel after reading this type of thing that their denial is justified.
Wise up.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by gunnersaurus rex (U21846)
posted 8 seconds ago
Lets agree to disagree TOOR. At some point you said Im wuming and the response of other guys here suggests Im not. You lost me there, so lets just agree to disagree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 29/12/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
posted on 29/12/19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w5WOb8jPLQ
posted on 29/12/19
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with all this but the example used was ridiculous, in my opinion.
posted on 29/12/19
We live in a country full of racists, virtually everyone that voted Tory to start with. The general election was nothing more than a vote on racism.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with all this but the example used was ridiculous, in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get you but you're proving my point. People always want to rubbish one little point to rubbish the whole point. If you can prove his example is rubbish, then you can prove racism isnt there. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLT54QjclA
posted on 29/12/19
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with all this but the example used was ridiculous, in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get you but you're proving my point. People always want to rubbish one little point to rubbish the whole point. If you can prove his example is rubbish, then you can prove racism isnt there. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLT54QjclA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I'm not. You're attributing what you believe other people do(and I agree with this) to me. Claiming racism due to a player being criticised for a poor performance is ridiculous and as I said before dilutes actual racism and gives the people you speak of examples which they believe back up their viewpoint.
It's these people that need convincing, not about easy to see racism but about the underlying racism they don't believe occurs and by using a player who happens to be black being criticised for having a poor game, makes this more difficult. Even if I am one of those people you speak of and this was an example of it, this has proved this point as instead of me joining in the condemnation of underlying racism I'm here denying that it occurred.
If we use proper examples, we'll convince more people to inspect their underlying thoughts, rather than deny they're there.
posted on 29/12/19
Also I believe the woman in the video is saying she believes things which she doesn't, to try prove a point. If she believed them, she wouldn't have made the video. Good intentions but I don't believe her.
I feel that shes basically saying if you're white, you're a racist. This is racist in itself.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
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I agree with all this but the example used was ridiculous, in my opinion.
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I get you but you're proving my point. People always want to rubbish one little point to rubbish the whole point. If you can prove his example is rubbish, then you can prove racism isnt there. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLT54QjclA
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No I'm not. You're attributing what you believe other people do(and I agree with this) to me. Claiming racism due to a player being criticised for a poor performance is ridiculous and as I said before dilutes actual racism and gives the people you speak of examples which they believe back up their viewpoint.
It's these people that need convincing, not about easy to see racism but about the underlying racism they don't believe occurs and by using a player who happens to be black being criticised for having a poor game, makes this more difficult. Even if I am one of those people you speak of and this was an example of it, this has proved this point as instead of me joining in the condemnation of underlying racism I'm here denying that it occurred.
If we use proper examples, we'll convince more people to inspect their underlying thoughts, rather than deny they're there.
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I get ya. There is however never a great example unless a banana has been thrown on the pitch. That's why we can sit here and debate Mendy (i didnt read the city article, nor do i know the story there i was talking about the general sentiment ususally).
posted on 29/12/19
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 8 hours, 25 minutes ago
Firstly, calling out the City fan for that article is uncalled for. Mendy is crap - the reason Sterling was not called out the same way is because he has 'credit in the bank' so to speak, as he is generally one of their best players. As for Otamendi, City fans criticise him all the time.
As for your point in general, there is maybe a point to it. Ive always found it strange how Pogba is called out constantly by the media for his lack of professionalism and at times has even been called a cancer at the club, despite absolutely zero evidence of this being the case other than flash haircuts and dance moves.
Contrast with Phil Jones who also dyes his hair and covers himself in tattoos (not that there is anything wrong with this), yet is viewed as some kind of warrior in England despite spending most of his career on the treatment table (and interestingly has not once been accused of faking it like Pogba has these past 3 months)
I wouldn't ever call these people racists but I have always thought it's possible there is some subconscious bias from the likes of Souness.
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This hits the point way better than the OP in which the argument is very poorly put forward.
The media and some fans definitely have an agenda against these players... Sterling included!
posted on 29/12/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 14 minutes ago
Also I believe the woman in the video is saying she believes things which she doesn't, to try prove a point. If she believed them, she wouldn't have made the video. Good intentions but I don't believe her.
I feel that shes basically saying if you're white, you're a racist. This is racist in itself.
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She's a doctor in that field so she's giving an observation of how she understands the world shapes her world view. She said we are all influenced one way or the other (white and black). She's also speaking in hindsight after studying this for decades.
posted on 29/12/19
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by JohnStreep (U18296)
posted 5 minutes ago
I love reading stuff like this. OP is very correct in his thoughts to raise the question for debate and a bunch of people feel the need to explain it away without actually discussing it. He's not saying it is definitely racist, he's making an observation and asking for opinions and all he gets is attacked. I think they actually call it weaponized white fragility in that people will make it so uncomfortable to talk about race because then they'd have to actually admit there is a problem. Sprinkle in a few anecdotal bits of evidence of how it happens to all not just black players (Xhaka, Ozil, etc). So predictable.
To the point, YES there is a different attitude towards foreign black players, especially those who are so apologetically so like Pogba, with his African dancing and black hairstyles. He doesn't try to change himself to make the local people comfortable like the black brits (like me) have learnt to do to get by.
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Yeah I think this is a load of crap also. I'm not sure what the fancy phrase for it is but I'll stick with crap.
To say people singling out a player and saying he cost a game is racism is ridiculous, just because the player happens to be black. This kind of thing takes away from and dilutes actual racism, which in turn causes some people to get frustrated with the claims and turn a blind eye to real racism.
I actual think the OP is a WUM and you've fallen for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Nowhere did he say it was racist to call out a player. His observation was are we quicker to call out black players. So my question to you is what is actual racism? Shouting the N word, making monkey gestures? That is the overt stuff, it is very difficult to prove the undertones which are there like i said because there is always a 'logical' answer designed to take race off the table. That's all. Is it wrong to question that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with all this but the example used was ridiculous, in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get you but you're proving my point. People always want to rubbish one little point to rubbish the whole point. If you can prove his example is rubbish, then you can prove racism isnt there. Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLT54QjclA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I'm not. You're attributing what you believe other people do(and I agree with this) to me. Claiming racism due to a player being criticised for a poor performance is ridiculous and as I said before dilutes actual racism and gives the people you speak of examples which they believe back up their viewpoint.
It's these people that need convincing, not about easy to see racism but about the underlying racism they don't believe occurs and by using a player who happens to be black being criticised for having a poor game, makes this more difficult. Even if I am one of those people you speak of and this was an example of it, this has proved this point as instead of me joining in the condemnation of underlying racism I'm here denying that it occurred.
If we use proper examples, we'll convince more people to inspect their underlying thoughts, rather than deny they're there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get ya. There is however never a great example unless a banana has been thrown on the pitch. That's why we can sit here and debate Mendy (i didnt read the city article, nor do i know the story there i was talking about the general sentiment ususally).
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OK then we're debating for no reason as I agree with the general sentiment but not the example used. The example used was simply somebody saying that a player was rubbish at defending. Which you can understand after the performance he put in against Wolves and the mistake he made playing the most significant part in City not holding on. Whether he is black or not is completely irrelevant.
There are good examples. Let me try one.
I often see people online saying "All lives matter, not just black lives". For me anybody who says this whilst not believing they are racist are showing signs of underlying or covert racism.
Then you have people who try to show you they are not racist by saying things like "when I look at a black person, I don't see them as black". For me that is another good example of covert racism and I have no doubt a person with black skin would find that offensive. Why don't you see the person as black? Of course you do, it's about accepting that as completely normal and it not actually being something you have to say.
What this woman says, basically that all white people are racists, whether it's covert or not, is another way or justifying what deniers believe.
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