I think it’s the mentality of some modern managers. Poch came out saying he’d throw the cups and only wanted the PL/CL.
I guess it makes sense for clubs like Liverpool and Spurs who generate a lot of their money through competitions to prioritise the ones with the bigger prize pools
Personally I’ll always rate the PL and CL way above anything else, but it’s also all relative which means right now we can’t win either so the lesser competitions take on more significance.
But if I were a Liverpool fan then I understand why their club wouldn’t value the other competitions so much at the moment, especially if they feel it has an effect on the PL and CL. I’m sure Klopp and the players were frustrated they lost last night but I also dont think they’ll be too disappointed.
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must... (U11713)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Greenwood FC (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must... (U11713)
posted 5 minutes ago
Sadly the fac up doesnt have the same prestige as it used to.
for me they should scrap the 4th place qualification in the league and change it to the winners of the fa cup
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What if a championship club wins it? Our coefficient rating will drop through the roof.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
how often does that happen though?
and what are the chances of it happening if there was a cl place as an incentive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
I can't see an incentive such as cl qualifier resulting in a win for a championship club tbh
It may still leave the newly promoted teams to focus on the league position but say 3-6 from the top 6 would be definitely in it to win it
Because the CL places should be awarded to the best performing teams. Handing a CL place to a team that wins six games, and could feasibly win it without having to play a top half premier league team, would make the CL worse off.
There’s always an incentive for teams to win the FA Cup, which is why it’s usually won by the best teams/biggest clubs.
comment by Momo’s Goggles (U22339)
posted 1 minute ago
I think it’s the mentality of some modern managers. Poch came out saying he’d throw the cups and only wanted the PL/CL.
I guess it makes sense for clubs like Liverpool and Spurs who generate a lot of their money through competitions to prioritise the ones with the bigger prize pools
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbh I think someone like klopp not focussing on it now is more understandable than a spurs under Poch.
For a team like spurs a cup run is vital to gain a platform. You can't just go from not having won much to wanting to be CL or PL winners (Leicester an anomaly?)
I think handling pressure of cup games helps with the bigger competition
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
Because the CL places should be awarded to the best performing teams. Handing a CL place to a team that wins six games, and could feasibly win it without having to play a top half premier league team, would make the CL worse off.
There’s always an incentive for teams to win the FA Cup, which is why it’s usually won by the best teams/biggest clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will it be the case though if clubs at the top don't bother with it Daz?
I want the cup still to hold value
Also, I can’t say for certain but I dont think domestic cups abroad are really that highly regarded, which the way the FA Cup seems to be going too.
Have never liked the idea of a CL place for the FA Cup.
Dealing with the symptom and not the cause.
The cause is money and seeding in European football imo.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 10 minutes ago
Personally I’ll always rate the PL and CL way above anything else, but it’s also all relative which means right now we can’t win either so the lesser competitions take on more significance.
But if I were a Liverpool fan then I understand why their club wouldn’t value the other competitions so much at the moment, especially if they feel it has an effect on the PL and CL. I’m sure Klopp and the players were frustrated they lost last night but I also dont think they’ll be too disappointed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree, however, from a fan perspective, I do wish he'd take one of them seriously at least, F.A cup preferably as we haven't won as many of them as we have league cups. 👍
comment by der kloppites Hi, wie geht es dir (U13373)
posted 43 minutes ago
The cup is Mickey Mouse cup these days , and league is a joke cup 👍 just a sign of the times these days
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really because the best team in england over the last 5 years seems to take them pretty seriously.
The clubs do bother. Not every single time as circumstances often dictate things, but the cups still hold value. Not as much as they used to be that’s just the way things are now with the expansion of European football. I don’t think a CL spot for the winners of the cup will give it much more value, but there’s a chance for the CL qualification process to be devalued also.
Yeah I agree Darren and it is only a suggestion to get cups more valued.
I also think the players and managers for LFC would have been gutted for losing to cfc. But can't really show it as they are at key stages where heads can't drop.
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yeah I agree Darren and it is only a suggestion to get cups more valued.
I also think the players and managers for LFC would have been gutted for losing to cfc. But can't really show it as they are at key stages where heads can't drop.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they'll be gutted, or they should be. They're professional sportsman and they're the most competitive people in the world. I'd be disappointed if they weren't gutted. I also agree that a CL spot from one of these cups would devalue the CL and shouldn't be considered at all.
But the idea of value is so subjective that the discussion becomes kind of pointless as you just can’t quantify it.
comment by Going Loco Like Sissoko - SUPER EUROPEAN WORLD... (U10893)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yeah I agree Darren and it is only a suggestion to get cups more valued.
I also think the players and managers for LFC would have been gutted for losing to cfc. But can't really show it as they are at key stages where heads can't drop.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they'll be gutted, or they should be. They're professional sportsman and they're the most competitive people in the world. I'd be disappointed if they weren't gutted. I also agree that a CL spot from one of these cups would devalue the CL and shouldn't be considered at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough about the CL places.
With regards to being gutted I agree with you totally. Why I don't like seeing the not bothered comments tbh. I think the players will be absolutely bothered and come the end of the season the fringe players would have something to cheer about too if won.
I wouldn't be against the 4th CL spot going to the FA Cup winners. If you look at all the winners during the period more than just the champions have been allowed into the CL then you'll find they're all, barring Pompey and Wigan, have been teams in or around the top 4.
For example I'd say finishing 5th on goal difference and winning the FA Cup is a better season than finishing 4th on GD with no trophy.
If a team from the lower echelons did win the FA Cup and went into the CL then that wouldn't be a bad thing either IMO as it could help them take a step forward in their progression with the extra money.
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Going Loco Like Sissoko - SUPER EUROPEAN WORLD... (U10893)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yeah I agree Darren and it is only a suggestion to get cups more valued.
I also think the players and managers for LFC would have been gutted for losing to cfc. But can't really show it as they are at key stages where heads can't drop.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they'll be gutted, or they should be. They're professional sportsman and they're the most competitive people in the world. I'd be disappointed if they weren't gutted. I also agree that a CL spot from one of these cups would devalue the CL and shouldn't be considered at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough about the CL places.
With regards to being gutted I agree with you totally. Why I don't like seeing the not bothered comments tbh. I think the players will be absolutely bothered and come the end of the season the fringe players would have something to cheer about too if won.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What the players privately think (which we mortals will never know) and what fans think are polar opposite. They'll be gutted. But they didn't look like they wanted it as much as Chelsea and fair play to them for getting the result. They deserved it and we didn't.
I'd like to see the League Cup knocked on the head. Teams playing in Europe have too many fixtures and they don't take it seriously (until semi-final stage) anyway. There are various ways of approaching this:
- Limit it to Championship teams and below
- Exempt PL teams playing in Europe
- Make it opt-in for PL teams
- PL teams can't only play their under-21s
...and perhaps freeing up the number of games per year, and reducing the number of trophies you can target would lead to bigger clubs taking the FA Cup more seriously again.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 12 minutes ago
I wouldn't be against the 4th CL spot going to the FA Cup winners. If you look at all the winners during the period more than just the champions have been allowed into the CL then you'll find they're all, barring Pompey and Wigan, have been teams in or around the top 4.
For example I'd say finishing 5th on goal difference and winning the FA Cup is a better season than finishing 4th on GD with no trophy.
If a team from the lower echelons did win the FA Cup and went into the CL then that wouldn't be a bad thing either IMO as it could help them take a step forward in their progression with the extra money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And what if a team in sixth wins it, miles behind fourth in the league, having not had to face any challenging opponents in their six games to win the cup?
It’d potentially make the league worse as well. With clubs just outside the top four not needing much motivation to improve if they can hope to bag a lucky draw and a cup win.
CL should be for the best teams, and league placing is the fairest way of determining that.
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 12 minutes ago
I wouldn't be against the 4th CL spot going to the FA Cup winners. If you look at all the winners during the period more than just the champions have been allowed into the CL then you'll find they're all, barring Pompey and Wigan, have been teams in or around the top 4.
For example I'd say finishing 5th on goal difference and winning the FA Cup is a better season than finishing 4th on GD with no trophy.
If a team from the lower echelons did win the FA Cup and went into the CL then that wouldn't be a bad thing either IMO as it could help them take a step forward in their progression with the extra money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And what if a team in sixth wins it, miles behind fourth in the league, having not had to face any challenging opponents in their six games to win the cup?
It’d potentially make the league worse as well. With clubs just outside the top four not needing much motivation to improve if they can hope to bag a lucky draw and a cup win.
CL should be for the best teams, and league placing is the fairest way of determining that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd be happy with the team in sixth scenario as well. After all, the CL is a knockout for the last 16 onwards. You can't tell me you don't take seriously a trophy won against Spurs in the final?
If it is a lucky draw in the FA Cup so be it. I still value the competition (first one I saw United win) so I always want to win it. An incentive can't make it any less valuable IMO.
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
CL should be for the best teams, and league placing is the fairest way of determining that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A question for you Darren.
If this season continues as it has done we could see a Leicester or wolves in the CL. And deservedly so as it's not their fault likes of utd are in turmoil/transition.
Would this be much different to say a Wigan getting cl and utilising that money to become a force?
The most surprising one was Spurs fans saying they don't care about them, when their team hasn't won anything in a long time.
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 1 minute ago
The most surprising one was Spurs fans saying they don't care about them, when their team hasn't won anything in a long time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Said this earlier.
You got to think had they tasted success in the lesser cups how they would have faired in the CL final.
I'm a believer that Wembley type days help players settle in other big comps. Eases the pressure somewhat
Yes because Wigan got relegated.
Diafol, but I’m not talking about devaluing the cup I’m talking about it devaluing the quality of the CL.
I think the winners getting a CL spot is a terrible idea. Whether people like it or not the CL place is a bigger reward than the FA Cup, I don’t see why a team winning six games should take precedence over a team doing consistently well in a 38 game season. Luckily it’ll never happen.
Yup, agree with Dazza on this.
The league is the fairest way of determining who gets the CL, rather than the luck of the draw in a domestic cup. Which, as mentioned, you may not even need to face a Premier League side at all in theory.
Wouldn't make any sense for the FA Cup winners to get a CL spot.
Surely winning the FA Cup is a reward in itself.
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Page 2 of 4
posted on 4/3/20
I think it’s the mentality of some modern managers. Poch came out saying he’d throw the cups and only wanted the PL/CL.
I guess it makes sense for clubs like Liverpool and Spurs who generate a lot of their money through competitions to prioritise the ones with the bigger prize pools
posted on 4/3/20
Personally I’ll always rate the PL and CL way above anything else, but it’s also all relative which means right now we can’t win either so the lesser competitions take on more significance.
But if I were a Liverpool fan then I understand why their club wouldn’t value the other competitions so much at the moment, especially if they feel it has an effect on the PL and CL. I’m sure Klopp and the players were frustrated they lost last night but I also dont think they’ll be too disappointed.
posted on 4/3/20
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must... (U11713)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Greenwood FC (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must... (U11713)
posted 5 minutes ago
Sadly the fac up doesnt have the same prestige as it used to.
for me they should scrap the 4th place qualification in the league and change it to the winners of the fa cup
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What if a championship club wins it? Our coefficient rating will drop through the roof.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
how often does that happen though?
and what are the chances of it happening if there was a cl place as an incentive
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
I can't see an incentive such as cl qualifier resulting in a win for a championship club tbh
It may still leave the newly promoted teams to focus on the league position but say 3-6 from the top 6 would be definitely in it to win it
posted on 4/3/20
Because the CL places should be awarded to the best performing teams. Handing a CL place to a team that wins six games, and could feasibly win it without having to play a top half premier league team, would make the CL worse off.
There’s always an incentive for teams to win the FA Cup, which is why it’s usually won by the best teams/biggest clubs.
posted on 4/3/20
comment by Momo’s Goggles (U22339)
posted 1 minute ago
I think it’s the mentality of some modern managers. Poch came out saying he’d throw the cups and only wanted the PL/CL.
I guess it makes sense for clubs like Liverpool and Spurs who generate a lot of their money through competitions to prioritise the ones with the bigger prize pools
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbh I think someone like klopp not focussing on it now is more understandable than a spurs under Poch.
For a team like spurs a cup run is vital to gain a platform. You can't just go from not having won much to wanting to be CL or PL winners (Leicester an anomaly?)
I think handling pressure of cup games helps with the bigger competition
posted on 4/3/20
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
Because the CL places should be awarded to the best performing teams. Handing a CL place to a team that wins six games, and could feasibly win it without having to play a top half premier league team, would make the CL worse off.
There’s always an incentive for teams to win the FA Cup, which is why it’s usually won by the best teams/biggest clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will it be the case though if clubs at the top don't bother with it Daz?
I want the cup still to hold value
posted on 4/3/20
Also, I can’t say for certain but I dont think domestic cups abroad are really that highly regarded, which the way the FA Cup seems to be going too.
posted on 4/3/20
Have never liked the idea of a CL place for the FA Cup.
Dealing with the symptom and not the cause.
The cause is money and seeding in European football imo.
posted on 4/3/20
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 10 minutes ago
Personally I’ll always rate the PL and CL way above anything else, but it’s also all relative which means right now we can’t win either so the lesser competitions take on more significance.
But if I were a Liverpool fan then I understand why their club wouldn’t value the other competitions so much at the moment, especially if they feel it has an effect on the PL and CL. I’m sure Klopp and the players were frustrated they lost last night but I also dont think they’ll be too disappointed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree, however, from a fan perspective, I do wish he'd take one of them seriously at least, F.A cup preferably as we haven't won as many of them as we have league cups. 👍
posted on 4/3/20
comment by der kloppites Hi, wie geht es dir (U13373)
posted 43 minutes ago
The cup is Mickey Mouse cup these days , and league is a joke cup 👍 just a sign of the times these days
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really because the best team in england over the last 5 years seems to take them pretty seriously.
posted on 4/3/20
The clubs do bother. Not every single time as circumstances often dictate things, but the cups still hold value. Not as much as they used to be that’s just the way things are now with the expansion of European football. I don’t think a CL spot for the winners of the cup will give it much more value, but there’s a chance for the CL qualification process to be devalued also.
posted on 4/3/20
Yeah I agree Darren and it is only a suggestion to get cups more valued.
I also think the players and managers for LFC would have been gutted for losing to cfc. But can't really show it as they are at key stages where heads can't drop.
posted on 4/3/20
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yeah I agree Darren and it is only a suggestion to get cups more valued.
I also think the players and managers for LFC would have been gutted for losing to cfc. But can't really show it as they are at key stages where heads can't drop.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they'll be gutted, or they should be. They're professional sportsman and they're the most competitive people in the world. I'd be disappointed if they weren't gutted. I also agree that a CL spot from one of these cups would devalue the CL and shouldn't be considered at all.
posted on 4/3/20
But the idea of value is so subjective that the discussion becomes kind of pointless as you just can’t quantify it.
posted on 4/3/20
comment by Going Loco Like Sissoko - SUPER EUROPEAN WORLD... (U10893)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yeah I agree Darren and it is only a suggestion to get cups more valued.
I also think the players and managers for LFC would have been gutted for losing to cfc. But can't really show it as they are at key stages where heads can't drop.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they'll be gutted, or they should be. They're professional sportsman and they're the most competitive people in the world. I'd be disappointed if they weren't gutted. I also agree that a CL spot from one of these cups would devalue the CL and shouldn't be considered at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough about the CL places.
With regards to being gutted I agree with you totally. Why I don't like seeing the not bothered comments tbh. I think the players will be absolutely bothered and come the end of the season the fringe players would have something to cheer about too if won.
posted on 4/3/20
I wouldn't be against the 4th CL spot going to the FA Cup winners. If you look at all the winners during the period more than just the champions have been allowed into the CL then you'll find they're all, barring Pompey and Wigan, have been teams in or around the top 4.
For example I'd say finishing 5th on goal difference and winning the FA Cup is a better season than finishing 4th on GD with no trophy.
If a team from the lower echelons did win the FA Cup and went into the CL then that wouldn't be a bad thing either IMO as it could help them take a step forward in their progression with the extra money.
posted on 4/3/20
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Going Loco Like Sissoko - SUPER EUROPEAN WORLD... (U10893)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yeah I agree Darren and it is only a suggestion to get cups more valued.
I also think the players and managers for LFC would have been gutted for losing to cfc. But can't really show it as they are at key stages where heads can't drop.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course they'll be gutted, or they should be. They're professional sportsman and they're the most competitive people in the world. I'd be disappointed if they weren't gutted. I also agree that a CL spot from one of these cups would devalue the CL and shouldn't be considered at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough about the CL places.
With regards to being gutted I agree with you totally. Why I don't like seeing the not bothered comments tbh. I think the players will be absolutely bothered and come the end of the season the fringe players would have something to cheer about too if won.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What the players privately think (which we mortals will never know) and what fans think are polar opposite. They'll be gutted. But they didn't look like they wanted it as much as Chelsea and fair play to them for getting the result. They deserved it and we didn't.
posted on 4/3/20
I'd like to see the League Cup knocked on the head. Teams playing in Europe have too many fixtures and they don't take it seriously (until semi-final stage) anyway. There are various ways of approaching this:
- Limit it to Championship teams and below
- Exempt PL teams playing in Europe
- Make it opt-in for PL teams
- PL teams can't only play their under-21s
...and perhaps freeing up the number of games per year, and reducing the number of trophies you can target would lead to bigger clubs taking the FA Cup more seriously again.
posted on 4/3/20
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 12 minutes ago
I wouldn't be against the 4th CL spot going to the FA Cup winners. If you look at all the winners during the period more than just the champions have been allowed into the CL then you'll find they're all, barring Pompey and Wigan, have been teams in or around the top 4.
For example I'd say finishing 5th on goal difference and winning the FA Cup is a better season than finishing 4th on GD with no trophy.
If a team from the lower echelons did win the FA Cup and went into the CL then that wouldn't be a bad thing either IMO as it could help them take a step forward in their progression with the extra money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And what if a team in sixth wins it, miles behind fourth in the league, having not had to face any challenging opponents in their six games to win the cup?
It’d potentially make the league worse as well. With clubs just outside the top four not needing much motivation to improve if they can hope to bag a lucky draw and a cup win.
CL should be for the best teams, and league placing is the fairest way of determining that.
posted on 4/3/20
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
posted 12 minutes ago
I wouldn't be against the 4th CL spot going to the FA Cup winners. If you look at all the winners during the period more than just the champions have been allowed into the CL then you'll find they're all, barring Pompey and Wigan, have been teams in or around the top 4.
For example I'd say finishing 5th on goal difference and winning the FA Cup is a better season than finishing 4th on GD with no trophy.
If a team from the lower echelons did win the FA Cup and went into the CL then that wouldn't be a bad thing either IMO as it could help them take a step forward in their progression with the extra money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And what if a team in sixth wins it, miles behind fourth in the league, having not had to face any challenging opponents in their six games to win the cup?
It’d potentially make the league worse as well. With clubs just outside the top four not needing much motivation to improve if they can hope to bag a lucky draw and a cup win.
CL should be for the best teams, and league placing is the fairest way of determining that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd be happy with the team in sixth scenario as well. After all, the CL is a knockout for the last 16 onwards. You can't tell me you don't take seriously a trophy won against Spurs in the final?
If it is a lucky draw in the FA Cup so be it. I still value the competition (first one I saw United win) so I always want to win it. An incentive can't make it any less valuable IMO.
posted on 4/3/20
comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 - A Reputable Poster (U2462)
CL should be for the best teams, and league placing is the fairest way of determining that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A question for you Darren.
If this season continues as it has done we could see a Leicester or wolves in the CL. And deservedly so as it's not their fault likes of utd are in turmoil/transition.
Would this be much different to say a Wigan getting cl and utilising that money to become a force?
posted on 4/3/20
The most surprising one was Spurs fans saying they don't care about them, when their team hasn't won anything in a long time.
posted on 4/3/20
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 1 minute ago
The most surprising one was Spurs fans saying they don't care about them, when their team hasn't won anything in a long time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Said this earlier.
You got to think had they tasted success in the lesser cups how they would have faired in the CL final.
I'm a believer that Wembley type days help players settle in other big comps. Eases the pressure somewhat
posted on 4/3/20
Yes because Wigan got relegated.
Diafol, but I’m not talking about devaluing the cup I’m talking about it devaluing the quality of the CL.
I think the winners getting a CL spot is a terrible idea. Whether people like it or not the CL place is a bigger reward than the FA Cup, I don’t see why a team winning six games should take precedence over a team doing consistently well in a 38 game season. Luckily it’ll never happen.
posted on 4/3/20
Yup, agree with Dazza on this.
The league is the fairest way of determining who gets the CL, rather than the luck of the draw in a domestic cup. Which, as mentioned, you may not even need to face a Premier League side at all in theory.
Wouldn't make any sense for the FA Cup winners to get a CL spot.
Surely winning the FA Cup is a reward in itself.
Page 2 of 4