comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 1 hour ago
Morning Sandy,
Completely agree. I would be amazed if anyone is enjoying this saga, regardless of what side they are on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
left wing journalists are loving it
The bottom line is the best deal was the deal we already had. The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal, even a deal won`t be as good as we already have, but it will be better than nothing.
Why make yourself poorer, just because of some ideological nonsense peddled by Farage and his mates. It won`t affect him, he has already sorted his passports out, so he can travel freely across Europe, he will be getting his gold plated Euro Pension, what a hypopcrite. He is just another rabble rouser, and Britain has had plenty of those throughout its history.
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 1 hour ago
Morning Sandy,
Completely agree. I would be amazed if anyone is enjoying this saga, regardless of what side they are on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
left wing journalists are loving it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the media is right wing mate. Very few left wing journalists. probably 80/20 in favour of right wing Daily Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph, Sky etc journalists. That`s how Brexit came about in the first place. The average Joe didn`t really care about it. But the immigration debate was whipped up by the right wing tabloids, and we are were we are now because of them.
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 1 minute ago
Still very important they get some kind of deal. We have the most incompetent government there has ever been so it's all about damage limitation whilst this clown and his cronies are in charge.
No deal will wreck a lot of businesses (which are obviously already in dire straights). So I very much hope for their sakes there can be a deal of some kind.
Unfortunately both sides are egotistical and care more about their perceived reputations than what is actually good for their people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Important for who mate? The EU? Why do you think they are dragging this out? They desperately don’t want a “no deal” because it will hurt them a lot more than it will hurt Britain. I think businesses have already been affected by this virus, so I don’t think a No deal will make things even worse. I believe the country can prosper even without a deal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don, seriously if you think a it will hurt the EU worse, they are a 600 million plus trading block up against a 60 million trading block. It is like putting up a Supermarket Giant up against a corner shop. Once Brexit really kicks in, they will blow us out of the water.
There is only one loser in this game Don, and it won`t be the EU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then why are they dragging this out Sandy? EU have everything to lose when Britain comes out and they know it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don`t think they are dragging it out mate. Bunter is dragging it out, because he knows a No Deal will be reckless, but he doesn`t want to be seen to be weak.
The EU are as fed up as the rest of us that Britain doesn`t seem to know what it wants. Britain has left, so really, why are they still trying to cherry pick all the best bits.
It was obvious that the EU aint going to be giving Britain a better deal for leaving, than fully paid up members would get.
Up to Britain now, take it or leave it. If they leave it. Their choice. Nothing to do with the EU really. It is Johnson that is dithering trying to keep the ERG on board for political gain, and to keep Farage and his extreme Right wingers at bay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its called a negotiation Sandy.
You go in knowing what you want and you try your damnedest to achieve it.
Take fishing rights......You are right, we have left, we are a sovereign nation. so why the hell should the EU have free access to our fishing waters?
That aint "cherry picking the best bits". Its actually, financially, quite a small deal, but its the bloody principle - Do we have free access to Germany's coal reserves?
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 1 minute ago
Still very important they get some kind of deal. We have the most incompetent government there has ever been so it's all about damage limitation whilst this clown and his cronies are in charge.
No deal will wreck a lot of businesses (which are obviously already in dire straights). So I very much hope for their sakes there can be a deal of some kind.
Unfortunately both sides are egotistical and care more about their perceived reputations than what is actually good for their people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Important for who mate? The EU? Why do you think they are dragging this out? They desperately don’t want a “no deal” because it will hurt them a lot more than it will hurt Britain. I think businesses have already been affected by this virus, so I don’t think a No deal will make things even worse. I believe the country can prosper even without a deal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don, seriously if you think a it will hurt the EU worse, they are a 600 million plus trading block up against a 60 million trading block. It is like putting up a Supermarket Giant up against a corner shop. Once Brexit really kicks in, they will blow us out of the water.
There is only one loser in this game Don, and it won`t be the EU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then why are they dragging this out Sandy? EU have everything to lose when Britain comes out and they know it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don`t think they are dragging it out mate. Bunter is dragging it out, because he knows a No Deal will be reckless, but he doesn`t want to be seen to be weak.
The EU are as fed up as the rest of us that Britain doesn`t seem to know what it wants. Britain has left, so really, why are they still trying to cherry pick all the best bits.
It was obvious that the EU aint going to be giving Britain a better deal for leaving, than fully paid up members would get.
Up to Britain now, take it or leave it. If they leave it. Their choice. Nothing to do with the EU really. It is Johnson that is dithering trying to keep the ERG on board for political gain, and to keep Farage and his extreme Right wingers at bay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its called a negotiation Sandy.
You go in knowing what you want and you try your damnedest to achieve it.
Take fishing rights......You are right, we have left, we are a sovereign nation. so why the hell should the EU have free access to our fishing waters?
That aint "cherry picking the best bits". Its actually, financially, quite a small deal, but its the bloody principle - Do we have free access to Germany's coal reserves?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fishing rights mate, we sold off loads of those years back. Suddenly they are making a big fuss about fishing, when in reality more people lost their jobs in Debenhams than are involved in fishing. It is such a small industry to be throwing everything else away for.
Bottom line is Britain can fish all it wants, but its main market is in Europe, and if they don`t buy, then their will be a whole lot of stinking fish sitting about on jetties.
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes, WW1 was a massive self harm, I will agree, all caused by Queen Victoria`s relations wanting to have a small skirmish. The British have a lot to answer for.
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure you could call Ireland wanting to be Independent anything different to Brexit. Brexit is only about English nationalism, some as the Republicanism is about Irish Nationalism. No difference fella.
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes, WW1 was a massive self harm, I will agree, all caused by Queen Victoria`s relations wanting to have a small skirmish. The British have a lot to answer for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
aside from having the cause of WW1 completely wrong, the British have a lot to answer to whom for ?
Can anyone who thinks a no deal brexit is a good idea please put forward an economic argument? I have not seen any think tanks/studies/economists who believe it will be a net positive for the uk in the short or long term.
The only arguments seem to be we'll be 'free' and 'get our fishing waters back'.
This is why decisions like this should not be in the hands of the public. The majority simply don't understand the implications. David Cameron really facked it.
Its a clusterfack of biblical proportions at this point Sandy for those on all sides.
It has been 4 years! If you couldnt agree a deal in that timeframe, why are you scrabbling around now at the last minute trying to do one?
I always thought it was the wrong decision on the part of the UK but its done and really it should have been all completed in 2018. This dragging on and on has helped no one (I understand Covid was an unseen factor that contributed to the delay).
Also on who mentioned Irish republicanism in the early 20th century. We were trying to gain independence since the 1700's.
Those people wanted to govern themselves not be lauded over by a unwelcome visitor. Remember the UK invaded here, we didnt ask your boys back then to come.
For the record I do not support the RA or any of the other groups but saying Irish people wanting to be an independent country is a mistake by the UK just smacks of good old fashioned British Imperialism which imo has also affected the Brexit negotiations.
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 24 minutes ago
Can anyone who thinks a no deal brexit is a good idea please put forward an economic argument? I have not seen any think tanks/studies/economists who believe it will be a net positive for the uk in the short or long term.
The only arguments seem to be we'll be 'free' and 'get our fishing waters back'.
This is why decisions like this should not be in the hands of the public. The majority simply don't understand the implications. David Cameron really facked it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely. I wouldn`t mind if the Brexiteers would come up with a reasonable case for No Deal. Just saying we get to fish what we want is very lame. Nobody gives a feck really about fishing.
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes, WW1 was a massive self harm, I will agree, all caused by Queen Victoria`s relations wanting to have a small skirmish. The British have a lot to answer for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
aside from having the cause of WW1 completely wrong, the British have a lot to answer to whom for ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wasn`t the Kaiser, Queen Vics Grandson, wasn`t our leader one of Queen Vic`s grandsons. Wasn`t the Tsar of Russia related in someway to the the British Monarchy. First World War was a basically a dust up by descendants of Queen Victoria.
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 12 minutes ago
Those people wanted to govern themselves not be lauded over by a unwelcome visitor. Remember the UK invaded here, we didnt ask your boys back then to come.
For the record I do not support the RA or any of the other groups but saying Irish people wanting to be an independent country is a mistake by the UK just smacks of good old fashioned British Imperialism which imo has also affected the Brexit negotiations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i don't think you understand what ireland was. they were governed by themselves because they were a part of the UK.
England actually was invited into ireland by Dermot MacMurrough in the 12th century, back when the island of ireland was inhabited by largely nomadic warring tribes. Ireland was also bequived to England by Pope Adrian IV, also in the 12th century.
irish republicanism was an extreme minority view in ireland in the early 20th century. those reponsible for the easter rising were thought of as nothing more than crackpots at the time.
History gets re-written and people know very little about the truth as it, as demonstrated in your post.
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes, WW1 was a massive self harm, I will agree, all caused by Queen Victoria`s relations wanting to have a small skirmish. The British have a lot to answer for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
aside from having the cause of WW1 completely wrong, the British have a lot to answer to whom for ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wasn`t the Kaiser, Queen Vics Grandson, wasn`t our leader one of Queen Vic`s grandsons. Wasn`t the Tsar of Russia related in someway to the the British Monarchy. First World War was a basically a dust up by descendants of Queen Victoria.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what's your point ? Queen Victoria was dead. The Kind didn't decide to go to war the government did. And it wasn't out of an aspiration to have a bit of a dust up as you've claimed, or some kind of family argument and to suggest it was is absolute nonsense and with no semblance of reality.
I think you're being a little bit unsavoury and cavalier with your comments tbh bearing in mind the scale of loss of life that occurred and the devastating consequences it had for the country.
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Sandy, if the EU ain’t playing ball and won’t offer us a deal worthy, then it’s no deal and to right as well. I’m all for No deal regardless, but if we can get something meaningful from the EU when we leave, then fleece them for everything we can. They certainly have been fleecing us all these years. No deal for me though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We signed a deal with them, Boris offered it and got the withdrawal agreement, then won the election. Then it was Boris who tried to cancelled it that led to the current mess.
oh, and btw, St Patrick was from Somerset
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Sandy, if the EU ain’t playing ball and won’t offer us a deal worthy, then it’s no deal and to right as well. I’m all for No deal regardless, but if we can get something meaningful from the EU when we leave, then fleece them for everything we can. They certainly have been fleecing us all these years. No deal for me though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We signed a deal with them, Boris offered it and got the withdrawal agreement, then won the election. Then it was Boris who tried to cancelled it that led to the current mess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
christ almighty
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 24 minutes ago
Can anyone who thinks a no deal brexit is a good idea please put forward an economic argument? I have not seen any think tanks/studies/economists who believe it will be a net positive for the uk in the short or long term.
The only arguments seem to be we'll be 'free' and 'get our fishing waters back'.
This is why decisions like this should not be in the hands of the public. The majority simply don't understand the implications. David Cameron really facked it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely. I wouldn`t mind if the Brexiteers would come up with a reasonable case for No Deal. Just saying we get to fish what we want is very lame. Nobody gives a feck really about fishing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And who is going to go out fishing in these glorious waters? My understanding is that the UK sold off the fishing rights (yes, sold. Not gave away, to whoever it was earlier saying that they were just taken by the EU. Stop listening to Farage ffs.) largely because the UK fishing industry was on it's knees anyway and couldn't fish what we already had!
Can you imagine a bunch of unemployed guys being told they have to get their wellies on and get on that boat for weeks at a time? lol. If we can't get people to pick our own fruit, where are these wonderful fishermen going to appear from? Oh yes, they'll most likely be East European, because the average Brit won't want to do the work!
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Sandy, if the EU ain’t playing ball and won’t offer us a deal worthy, then it’s no deal and to right as well. I’m all for No deal regardless, but if we can get something meaningful from the EU when we leave, then fleece them for everything we can. They certainly have been fleecing us all these years. No deal for me though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We signed a deal with them, Boris offered it and got the withdrawal agreement, then won the election. Then it was Boris who tried to cancelled it that led to the current mess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
christ almighty
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and...? Apart from we voted Leave
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Sandy, if the EU ain’t playing ball and won’t offer us a deal worthy, then it’s no deal and to right as well. I’m all for No deal regardless, but if we can get something meaningful from the EU when we leave, then fleece them for everything we can. They certainly have been fleecing us all these years. No deal for me though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We signed a deal with them, Boris offered it and got the withdrawal agreement, then won the election. Then it was Boris who tried to cancelled it that led to the current mess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
christ almighty
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and...? Apart from we voted Leave
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the Internal Market Bill has very little bearing on the issues in dispute which are preventing the UK and EU entering into a treaty. The barrier to that is the EU's intransigence and lack of reasonableness, principally by insisting on being able to fish in the UK's waters and by refusing a disputes procedure which is based on independent arbitration, which is the disputes mechanism in every other trade treaty in existence.
Two separate issues. I didn't mention fishing at all in my argument. Fishing is just a political issue, which I think is easier to resolve. Level playing field is the bigger one. IMB was about state-aid rule which affected agreement about level playing field from EU. We signed for it in W.A, EU is now asking we follow that agreement but Boris rejected.
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 11 minutes ago
Two separate issues. I didn't mention fishing at all in my argument. Fishing is just a political issue, which I think is easier to resolve. Level playing field is the bigger one. IMB was about state-aid rule which affected agreement about level playing field from EU. We signed for it in W.A, EU is now asking we follow that agreement but Boris rejected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The vaguely drafted level playing field was included in the non-binding political declaration not the binding withdrawal agreement.
Still a declaration made by Boris, wonder why EU can't trust him to follow the standard when accessing to EU market.
and did Boris make that clear during the election? So it is not really oven ready, isn't it?
Sign in if you want to comment
Anybody else getting fed up with the
Page 2 of 5
posted on 14/12/20
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 1 hour ago
Morning Sandy,
Completely agree. I would be amazed if anyone is enjoying this saga, regardless of what side they are on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
left wing journalists are loving it
posted on 14/12/20
The bottom line is the best deal was the deal we already had. The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal, even a deal won`t be as good as we already have, but it will be better than nothing.
Why make yourself poorer, just because of some ideological nonsense peddled by Farage and his mates. It won`t affect him, he has already sorted his passports out, so he can travel freely across Europe, he will be getting his gold plated Euro Pension, what a hypopcrite. He is just another rabble rouser, and Britain has had plenty of those throughout its history.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 1 hour ago
Morning Sandy,
Completely agree. I would be amazed if anyone is enjoying this saga, regardless of what side they are on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
left wing journalists are loving it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the media is right wing mate. Very few left wing journalists. probably 80/20 in favour of right wing Daily Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph, Sky etc journalists. That`s how Brexit came about in the first place. The average Joe didn`t really care about it. But the immigration debate was whipped up by the right wing tabloids, and we are were we are now because of them.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 1 minute ago
Still very important they get some kind of deal. We have the most incompetent government there has ever been so it's all about damage limitation whilst this clown and his cronies are in charge.
No deal will wreck a lot of businesses (which are obviously already in dire straights). So I very much hope for their sakes there can be a deal of some kind.
Unfortunately both sides are egotistical and care more about their perceived reputations than what is actually good for their people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Important for who mate? The EU? Why do you think they are dragging this out? They desperately don’t want a “no deal” because it will hurt them a lot more than it will hurt Britain. I think businesses have already been affected by this virus, so I don’t think a No deal will make things even worse. I believe the country can prosper even without a deal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don, seriously if you think a it will hurt the EU worse, they are a 600 million plus trading block up against a 60 million trading block. It is like putting up a Supermarket Giant up against a corner shop. Once Brexit really kicks in, they will blow us out of the water.
There is only one loser in this game Don, and it won`t be the EU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then why are they dragging this out Sandy? EU have everything to lose when Britain comes out and they know it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don`t think they are dragging it out mate. Bunter is dragging it out, because he knows a No Deal will be reckless, but he doesn`t want to be seen to be weak.
The EU are as fed up as the rest of us that Britain doesn`t seem to know what it wants. Britain has left, so really, why are they still trying to cherry pick all the best bits.
It was obvious that the EU aint going to be giving Britain a better deal for leaving, than fully paid up members would get.
Up to Britain now, take it or leave it. If they leave it. Their choice. Nothing to do with the EU really. It is Johnson that is dithering trying to keep the ERG on board for political gain, and to keep Farage and his extreme Right wingers at bay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its called a negotiation Sandy.
You go in knowing what you want and you try your damnedest to achieve it.
Take fishing rights......You are right, we have left, we are a sovereign nation. so why the hell should the EU have free access to our fishing waters?
That aint "cherry picking the best bits". Its actually, financially, quite a small deal, but its the bloody principle - Do we have free access to Germany's coal reserves?
posted on 14/12/20
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 1 minute ago
Still very important they get some kind of deal. We have the most incompetent government there has ever been so it's all about damage limitation whilst this clown and his cronies are in charge.
No deal will wreck a lot of businesses (which are obviously already in dire straights). So I very much hope for their sakes there can be a deal of some kind.
Unfortunately both sides are egotistical and care more about their perceived reputations than what is actually good for their people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Important for who mate? The EU? Why do you think they are dragging this out? They desperately don’t want a “no deal” because it will hurt them a lot more than it will hurt Britain. I think businesses have already been affected by this virus, so I don’t think a No deal will make things even worse. I believe the country can prosper even without a deal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don, seriously if you think a it will hurt the EU worse, they are a 600 million plus trading block up against a 60 million trading block. It is like putting up a Supermarket Giant up against a corner shop. Once Brexit really kicks in, they will blow us out of the water.
There is only one loser in this game Don, and it won`t be the EU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then why are they dragging this out Sandy? EU have everything to lose when Britain comes out and they know it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don`t think they are dragging it out mate. Bunter is dragging it out, because he knows a No Deal will be reckless, but he doesn`t want to be seen to be weak.
The EU are as fed up as the rest of us that Britain doesn`t seem to know what it wants. Britain has left, so really, why are they still trying to cherry pick all the best bits.
It was obvious that the EU aint going to be giving Britain a better deal for leaving, than fully paid up members would get.
Up to Britain now, take it or leave it. If they leave it. Their choice. Nothing to do with the EU really. It is Johnson that is dithering trying to keep the ERG on board for political gain, and to keep Farage and his extreme Right wingers at bay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its called a negotiation Sandy.
You go in knowing what you want and you try your damnedest to achieve it.
Take fishing rights......You are right, we have left, we are a sovereign nation. so why the hell should the EU have free access to our fishing waters?
That aint "cherry picking the best bits". Its actually, financially, quite a small deal, but its the bloody principle - Do we have free access to Germany's coal reserves?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fishing rights mate, we sold off loads of those years back. Suddenly they are making a big fuss about fishing, when in reality more people lost their jobs in Debenhams than are involved in fishing. It is such a small industry to be throwing everything else away for.
Bottom line is Britain can fish all it wants, but its main market is in Europe, and if they don`t buy, then their will be a whole lot of stinking fish sitting about on jetties.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes, WW1 was a massive self harm, I will agree, all caused by Queen Victoria`s relations wanting to have a small skirmish. The British have a lot to answer for.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure you could call Ireland wanting to be Independent anything different to Brexit. Brexit is only about English nationalism, some as the Republicanism is about Irish Nationalism. No difference fella.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes, WW1 was a massive self harm, I will agree, all caused by Queen Victoria`s relations wanting to have a small skirmish. The British have a lot to answer for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
aside from having the cause of WW1 completely wrong, the British have a lot to answer to whom for ?
posted on 14/12/20
Can anyone who thinks a no deal brexit is a good idea please put forward an economic argument? I have not seen any think tanks/studies/economists who believe it will be a net positive for the uk in the short or long term.
The only arguments seem to be we'll be 'free' and 'get our fishing waters back'.
This is why decisions like this should not be in the hands of the public. The majority simply don't understand the implications. David Cameron really facked it.
posted on 14/12/20
Its a clusterfack of biblical proportions at this point Sandy for those on all sides.
It has been 4 years! If you couldnt agree a deal in that timeframe, why are you scrabbling around now at the last minute trying to do one?
I always thought it was the wrong decision on the part of the UK but its done and really it should have been all completed in 2018. This dragging on and on has helped no one (I understand Covid was an unseen factor that contributed to the delay).
Also on who mentioned Irish republicanism in the early 20th century. We were trying to gain independence since the 1700's.
Those people wanted to govern themselves not be lauded over by a unwelcome visitor. Remember the UK invaded here, we didnt ask your boys back then to come.
For the record I do not support the RA or any of the other groups but saying Irish people wanting to be an independent country is a mistake by the UK just smacks of good old fashioned British Imperialism which imo has also affected the Brexit negotiations.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 24 minutes ago
Can anyone who thinks a no deal brexit is a good idea please put forward an economic argument? I have not seen any think tanks/studies/economists who believe it will be a net positive for the uk in the short or long term.
The only arguments seem to be we'll be 'free' and 'get our fishing waters back'.
This is why decisions like this should not be in the hands of the public. The majority simply don't understand the implications. David Cameron really facked it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely. I wouldn`t mind if the Brexiteers would come up with a reasonable case for No Deal. Just saying we get to fish what we want is very lame. Nobody gives a feck really about fishing.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
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not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
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Well yes, WW1 was a massive self harm, I will agree, all caused by Queen Victoria`s relations wanting to have a small skirmish. The British have a lot to answer for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
aside from having the cause of WW1 completely wrong, the British have a lot to answer to whom for ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wasn`t the Kaiser, Queen Vics Grandson, wasn`t our leader one of Queen Vic`s grandsons. Wasn`t the Tsar of Russia related in someway to the the British Monarchy. First World War was a basically a dust up by descendants of Queen Victoria.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 12 minutes ago
Those people wanted to govern themselves not be lauded over by a unwelcome visitor. Remember the UK invaded here, we didnt ask your boys back then to come.
For the record I do not support the RA or any of the other groups but saying Irish people wanting to be an independent country is a mistake by the UK just smacks of good old fashioned British Imperialism which imo has also affected the Brexit negotiations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i don't think you understand what ireland was. they were governed by themselves because they were a part of the UK.
England actually was invited into ireland by Dermot MacMurrough in the 12th century, back when the island of ireland was inhabited by largely nomadic warring tribes. Ireland was also bequived to England by Pope Adrian IV, also in the 12th century.
irish republicanism was an extreme minority view in ireland in the early 20th century. those reponsible for the easter rising were thought of as nothing more than crackpots at the time.
History gets re-written and people know very little about the truth as it, as demonstrated in your post.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 2 minutes ago
The biggest act of self harm in Britain`s history in all probability will be leaving without any deal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not even close. for a start there's entering into WW1 and allowing the rise of irish republicanism a few years later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes, WW1 was a massive self harm, I will agree, all caused by Queen Victoria`s relations wanting to have a small skirmish. The British have a lot to answer for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
aside from having the cause of WW1 completely wrong, the British have a lot to answer to whom for ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wasn`t the Kaiser, Queen Vics Grandson, wasn`t our leader one of Queen Vic`s grandsons. Wasn`t the Tsar of Russia related in someway to the the British Monarchy. First World War was a basically a dust up by descendants of Queen Victoria.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what's your point ? Queen Victoria was dead. The Kind didn't decide to go to war the government did. And it wasn't out of an aspiration to have a bit of a dust up as you've claimed, or some kind of family argument and to suggest it was is absolute nonsense and with no semblance of reality.
I think you're being a little bit unsavoury and cavalier with your comments tbh bearing in mind the scale of loss of life that occurred and the devastating consequences it had for the country.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Sandy, if the EU ain’t playing ball and won’t offer us a deal worthy, then it’s no deal and to right as well. I’m all for No deal regardless, but if we can get something meaningful from the EU when we leave, then fleece them for everything we can. They certainly have been fleecing us all these years. No deal for me though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We signed a deal with them, Boris offered it and got the withdrawal agreement, then won the election. Then it was Boris who tried to cancelled it that led to the current mess.
posted on 14/12/20
oh, and btw, St Patrick was from Somerset
posted on 14/12/20
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Sandy, if the EU ain’t playing ball and won’t offer us a deal worthy, then it’s no deal and to right as well. I’m all for No deal regardless, but if we can get something meaningful from the EU when we leave, then fleece them for everything we can. They certainly have been fleecing us all these years. No deal for me though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We signed a deal with them, Boris offered it and got the withdrawal agreement, then won the election. Then it was Boris who tried to cancelled it that led to the current mess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
christ almighty
posted on 14/12/20
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 24 minutes ago
Can anyone who thinks a no deal brexit is a good idea please put forward an economic argument? I have not seen any think tanks/studies/economists who believe it will be a net positive for the uk in the short or long term.
The only arguments seem to be we'll be 'free' and 'get our fishing waters back'.
This is why decisions like this should not be in the hands of the public. The majority simply don't understand the implications. David Cameron really facked it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely. I wouldn`t mind if the Brexiteers would come up with a reasonable case for No Deal. Just saying we get to fish what we want is very lame. Nobody gives a feck really about fishing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And who is going to go out fishing in these glorious waters? My understanding is that the UK sold off the fishing rights (yes, sold. Not gave away, to whoever it was earlier saying that they were just taken by the EU. Stop listening to Farage ffs.) largely because the UK fishing industry was on it's knees anyway and couldn't fish what we already had!
Can you imagine a bunch of unemployed guys being told they have to get their wellies on and get on that boat for weeks at a time? lol. If we can't get people to pick our own fruit, where are these wonderful fishermen going to appear from? Oh yes, they'll most likely be East European, because the average Brit won't want to do the work!
posted on 14/12/20
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Sandy, if the EU ain’t playing ball and won’t offer us a deal worthy, then it’s no deal and to right as well. I’m all for No deal regardless, but if we can get something meaningful from the EU when we leave, then fleece them for everything we can. They certainly have been fleecing us all these years. No deal for me though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We signed a deal with them, Boris offered it and got the withdrawal agreement, then won the election. Then it was Boris who tried to cancelled it that led to the current mess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
christ almighty
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and...? Apart from we voted Leave
posted on 14/12/20
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Okeydokey (U22516)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Don_tottenham (U3372)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Sandy, if the EU ain’t playing ball and won’t offer us a deal worthy, then it’s no deal and to right as well. I’m all for No deal regardless, but if we can get something meaningful from the EU when we leave, then fleece them for everything we can. They certainly have been fleecing us all these years. No deal for me though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We signed a deal with them, Boris offered it and got the withdrawal agreement, then won the election. Then it was Boris who tried to cancelled it that led to the current mess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
christ almighty
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and...? Apart from we voted Leave
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the Internal Market Bill has very little bearing on the issues in dispute which are preventing the UK and EU entering into a treaty. The barrier to that is the EU's intransigence and lack of reasonableness, principally by insisting on being able to fish in the UK's waters and by refusing a disputes procedure which is based on independent arbitration, which is the disputes mechanism in every other trade treaty in existence.
posted on 14/12/20
Two separate issues. I didn't mention fishing at all in my argument. Fishing is just a political issue, which I think is easier to resolve. Level playing field is the bigger one. IMB was about state-aid rule which affected agreement about level playing field from EU. We signed for it in W.A, EU is now asking we follow that agreement but Boris rejected.
posted on 14/12/20
comment by red_evils (U19878)
posted 11 minutes ago
Two separate issues. I didn't mention fishing at all in my argument. Fishing is just a political issue, which I think is easier to resolve. Level playing field is the bigger one. IMB was about state-aid rule which affected agreement about level playing field from EU. We signed for it in W.A, EU is now asking we follow that agreement but Boris rejected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The vaguely drafted level playing field was included in the non-binding political declaration not the binding withdrawal agreement.
posted on 14/12/20
Still a declaration made by Boris, wonder why EU can't trust him to follow the standard when accessing to EU market.
posted on 14/12/20
and did Boris make that clear during the election? So it is not really oven ready, isn't it?
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