He's definitely the best head coach I have ever seen. Coach being the key word there. Hes changed the game with his style.
Fergie is the best manager of all time without a doubt though. He wasn't really a coach at all. He always relied on his coaches to do the training and he managed everyone.
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 43 seconds ago
He's definitely the best head coach I have ever seen. Coach being the key word there. Hes changed the game with his style.
Fergie is the best manager of all time without a doubt though. He wasn't really a coach at all. He always relied on his coaches to do the training and he managed everyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I deliberately left Fergie out of this as I also agree that as a Man Manager he has no rival in my opinion.
at the same time you dont want to upset some fans who maybe shocked to know that Fergie didnt concentrate on the tactical aspects of the game.
He wasnt clueless though.
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 minutes ago
He's definitely the best head coach I have ever seen. Coach being the key word there. Hes changed the game with his style.
Fergie is the best manager of all time without a doubt though. He wasn't really a coach at all. He always relied on his coaches to do the training and he managed everyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
one of fergies talents was getting the right coaching team around him. That was why Moyes made a huge mistake getting rid of them all when he got the job, should've kept them on and if he wanted to bring his own men in, do it gradually over time.
I think you have Jose the wrong way round, schite man manager but he was a tactical genius.
Could get sides to scalp bigger and better sides than them regularly. Time has overtaken him
Yeh, I'd think most would agree that Pep is the best coach, but that SAF was the best manager. Either way, but legends of the game.
Breaking up the old firm dominance with Aberdeen and even taking them to a European final beating the mighty Real Madrid makes him the goat. And what he did with us is nothing short of remarkable. 38 trophies.
Pep has invented a new style of football which the game has really never seen before. We've had possession based sides before true but nothing on his level.
I do think Pep is the best coach, Fergie was the best manager as well. Klopp is certainly up there though.
One thing I do disagree with though is the criticism's of Klopp this season about not being as good, think back to City last season when they ended up something near 20 points worse off than the previous season. Basing it off that, you could criticise Pep for all the money he has spent to end up significantly worse off last season if we are going to criticise Klopp this season.
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
Guardiola is a very impressive coach, combining original thinking / innovative solutions, great game analysis skills and what appears to be very effective preparation of his players. Hard to argue against him being the best of his generation.
That said, he has had players at his disposal that most coaches can only dream of, and budgets that enable him to fill any gaps in his arsenal. He's better placed to withstand key injuries than Klopp not just because he has the tactical imagination to do so, but because he has more strength in depth in his squad.
I don't find 'greatest ever' comparisons very useful. It's more interesting to explore what attributes are core to great coaches. I don't think SE85 is right to say that Pep has invested a new style of football the game has never seen before. But that's not to downplay his achievements. Just about all the most important innovators in football history have built on the ideas of others. Guardiola reasserted and modernised the basis of Barcelona's Dutch footballing heritage. It didn't come out of nowhere but that doesn't mean it wasn't bold and radical.
PS anyone interested in the history and evolution of tactics should read Jonathan Wilson's book 'Inverting the Pyramid'.
Conte is a good mix of both tactician and man manager, shame he’s also crazy
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 39 minutes ago
I think you have Jose the wrong way round, schite man manager but he was a tactical genius.
Could get sides to scalp bigger and better sides than them regularly. Time has overtaken him
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is a good man manager until things go wrong.
Jose particularly at his best was probably also a very potent mix of coach + motivational man manager. Even then former players would describe, to put it simply, that when he’s behind you and for you you feel top of the world. But if he doesn’t like you (or you feel like he doesn’t) he can make you feel 2 inches tall).
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 25 minutes ago
Guardiola is a very impressive coach, combining original thinking / innovative solutions, great game analysis skills and what appears to be very effective preparation of his players. Hard to argue against him being the best of his generation.
That said, he has had players at his disposal that most coaches can only dream of, and budgets that enable him to fill any gaps in his arsenal. He's better placed to withstand key injuries than Klopp not just because he has the tactical imagination to do so, but because he has more strength in depth in his squad.
I don't find 'greatest ever' comparisons very useful. It's more interesting to explore what attributes are core to great coaches. I don't think SE85 is right to say that Pep has invested a new style of football the game has never seen before. But that's not to downplay his achievements. Just about all the most important innovators in football history have built on the ideas of others. Guardiola reasserted and modernised the basis of Barcelona's Dutch footballing heritage. It didn't come out of nowhere but that doesn't mean it wasn't bold and radical.
PS anyone interested in the history and evolution of tactics should read Jonathan Wilson's book 'Inverting the Pyramid'.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great book
"Klopp does remind me of Jose, Wenger etc , Amazing man managers but tactically arent up there."
Invalidates the whole article from otherwise what is a decent debate to be had.
Klopp has done something with his tactics that to this day Pep has never done throughout his career...and that is to include high intensity possession football WITH power & aggression mixed in.
Even at Bayern Pep couldn't do this.
Also Jose (and to a lesser extent Rafa) came into the league and introduced the 3-man midfield. Pretty innovative tactician if you ask me.
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champione (U1108)
posted 3 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldnt call Liverpool a team with a limited budget. What he did at Dortmund taking them to the CL final was remarkable.
Being given 5 years to build a team into a top european club whilst being the 10 top spenders is not remarkable.
regarding Klopp I only asked the question, its a pity you had to get irritated.
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champio... (U1108)
posted 40 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still perpetuating the myth that City only had one injured player last season and totally ignoring the backdrop of the spurious UEFA charges and the political manoeuvring behind the scenes of the other top English clubs.
City's points record was there for the taking last season but the players gave up once the title had been secured. Pep wouldn't have allowed that.
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champio... (U1108)
posted 46 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Why overlook Peps complete failure in the CL in his time at City.
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 4 minutes ago
"Klopp does remind me of Jose, Wenger etc , Amazing man managers but tactically arent up there."
Invalidates the whole article from otherwise what is a decent debate to be had.
Klopp has done something with his tactics that to this day Pep has never done throughout his career...and that is to include high intensity possession football WITH power & aggression mixed in.
Even at Bayern Pep couldn't do this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is an argument that the Brain who eventually left was behind the tactics you talk of.
I actually didn't say Klopp is tactically naive, he is just a better man manager.
He definitely tweaked the heavy metal stuff in the last 2 seasons to produce a liverpool team that was heavily reliant on its defense, fullbacks and the front 3.
Its understandable that now the defense has been ripped apart the team suffers a bit. I am just surprised its taking him this long to make the necessary adjustments.
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champione (U1108)
posted 47 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your entire midfield cost way more than ours but you dont hear us making any noise about that.
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champione (U1108)
posted 48 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Limited budget
You’ve broken two world records ffs
Never thought that these 'who is the best ever' competitions in sport have ever been helpful and prove anything much. It usually ends up with people insisting that it has to be somebody from the present era, simply because it is of 'their time' and that the passage of time naturally means 'human progress', which is of course nonsense in lots of ways.
Pep is probably the most successful coach of this generation/era in terms of winning trophies and adopting an idiosyncratic and expansive style of play which people can identify and appreciate. However, nothing much is 'new' and Pep has leant heavily on the Dutch influence at Barca and Johan Cruyff which is based on philosophy of Total Football created by Rinus Michels. So it could be argued that Michels had the best coaching mind ever?
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 10 minutes ago
"Klopp does remind me of Jose, Wenger etc , Amazing man managers but tactically arent up there."
Invalidates the whole article from otherwise what is a decent debate to be had.
Klopp has done something with his tactics that to this day Pep has never done throughout his career...and that is to include high intensity possession football WITH power & aggression mixed in.
Even at Bayern Pep couldn't do this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Peps last Barca side had aggression and possession. Maybe not power if its a relevant metric in this case but certainly the first 2.
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champio... (U1108)
posted 46 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Why overlook Peps complete failure in the CL in his time at City.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was actually going to come to that, but it needs its own article.
Sign in if you want to comment
Pep is the Greatest Coach of the PL
Page 1 of 5
posted on 12/2/21
He's definitely the best head coach I have ever seen. Coach being the key word there. Hes changed the game with his style.
Fergie is the best manager of all time without a doubt though. He wasn't really a coach at all. He always relied on his coaches to do the training and he managed everyone.
posted on 12/2/21
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 43 seconds ago
He's definitely the best head coach I have ever seen. Coach being the key word there. Hes changed the game with his style.
Fergie is the best manager of all time without a doubt though. He wasn't really a coach at all. He always relied on his coaches to do the training and he managed everyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I deliberately left Fergie out of this as I also agree that as a Man Manager he has no rival in my opinion.
at the same time you dont want to upset some fans who maybe shocked to know that Fergie didnt concentrate on the tactical aspects of the game.
He wasnt clueless though.
posted on 12/2/21
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 minutes ago
He's definitely the best head coach I have ever seen. Coach being the key word there. Hes changed the game with his style.
Fergie is the best manager of all time without a doubt though. He wasn't really a coach at all. He always relied on his coaches to do the training and he managed everyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
one of fergies talents was getting the right coaching team around him. That was why Moyes made a huge mistake getting rid of them all when he got the job, should've kept them on and if he wanted to bring his own men in, do it gradually over time.
posted on 12/2/21
I think you have Jose the wrong way round, schite man manager but he was a tactical genius.
Could get sides to scalp bigger and better sides than them regularly. Time has overtaken him
posted on 12/2/21
Yeh, I'd think most would agree that Pep is the best coach, but that SAF was the best manager. Either way, but legends of the game.
posted on 12/2/21
Steve Bruce is clear
posted on 12/2/21
Breaking up the old firm dominance with Aberdeen and even taking them to a European final beating the mighty Real Madrid makes him the goat. And what he did with us is nothing short of remarkable. 38 trophies.
Pep has invented a new style of football which the game has really never seen before. We've had possession based sides before true but nothing on his level.
posted on 12/2/21
I do think Pep is the best coach, Fergie was the best manager as well. Klopp is certainly up there though.
One thing I do disagree with though is the criticism's of Klopp this season about not being as good, think back to City last season when they ended up something near 20 points worse off than the previous season. Basing it off that, you could criticise Pep for all the money he has spent to end up significantly worse off last season if we are going to criticise Klopp this season.
posted on 12/2/21
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
posted on 12/2/21
Guardiola is a very impressive coach, combining original thinking / innovative solutions, great game analysis skills and what appears to be very effective preparation of his players. Hard to argue against him being the best of his generation.
That said, he has had players at his disposal that most coaches can only dream of, and budgets that enable him to fill any gaps in his arsenal. He's better placed to withstand key injuries than Klopp not just because he has the tactical imagination to do so, but because he has more strength in depth in his squad.
I don't find 'greatest ever' comparisons very useful. It's more interesting to explore what attributes are core to great coaches. I don't think SE85 is right to say that Pep has invested a new style of football the game has never seen before. But that's not to downplay his achievements. Just about all the most important innovators in football history have built on the ideas of others. Guardiola reasserted and modernised the basis of Barcelona's Dutch footballing heritage. It didn't come out of nowhere but that doesn't mean it wasn't bold and radical.
PS anyone interested in the history and evolution of tactics should read Jonathan Wilson's book 'Inverting the Pyramid'.
posted on 12/2/21
Conte is a good mix of both tactician and man manager, shame he’s also crazy
posted on 12/2/21
comment by HB Fash - "like a pack of cards" (U21935)
posted 39 minutes ago
I think you have Jose the wrong way round, schite man manager but he was a tactical genius.
Could get sides to scalp bigger and better sides than them regularly. Time has overtaken him
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is a good man manager until things go wrong.
posted on 12/2/21
Jose particularly at his best was probably also a very potent mix of coach + motivational man manager. Even then former players would describe, to put it simply, that when he’s behind you and for you you feel top of the world. But if he doesn’t like you (or you feel like he doesn’t) he can make you feel 2 inches tall).
posted on 12/2/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 25 minutes ago
Guardiola is a very impressive coach, combining original thinking / innovative solutions, great game analysis skills and what appears to be very effective preparation of his players. Hard to argue against him being the best of his generation.
That said, he has had players at his disposal that most coaches can only dream of, and budgets that enable him to fill any gaps in his arsenal. He's better placed to withstand key injuries than Klopp not just because he has the tactical imagination to do so, but because he has more strength in depth in his squad.
I don't find 'greatest ever' comparisons very useful. It's more interesting to explore what attributes are core to great coaches. I don't think SE85 is right to say that Pep has invested a new style of football the game has never seen before. But that's not to downplay his achievements. Just about all the most important innovators in football history have built on the ideas of others. Guardiola reasserted and modernised the basis of Barcelona's Dutch footballing heritage. It didn't come out of nowhere but that doesn't mean it wasn't bold and radical.
PS anyone interested in the history and evolution of tactics should read Jonathan Wilson's book 'Inverting the Pyramid'.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Great book
posted on 12/2/21
"Klopp does remind me of Jose, Wenger etc , Amazing man managers but tactically arent up there."
Invalidates the whole article from otherwise what is a decent debate to be had.
Klopp has done something with his tactics that to this day Pep has never done throughout his career...and that is to include high intensity possession football WITH power & aggression mixed in.
Even at Bayern Pep couldn't do this.
posted on 12/2/21
Also Jose (and to a lesser extent Rafa) came into the league and introduced the 3-man midfield. Pretty innovative tactician if you ask me.
posted on 12/2/21
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champione (U1108)
posted 3 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldnt call Liverpool a team with a limited budget. What he did at Dortmund taking them to the CL final was remarkable.
Being given 5 years to build a team into a top european club whilst being the 10 top spenders is not remarkable.
regarding Klopp I only asked the question, its a pity you had to get irritated.
posted on 12/2/21
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champio... (U1108)
posted 40 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still perpetuating the myth that City only had one injured player last season and totally ignoring the backdrop of the spurious UEFA charges and the political manoeuvring behind the scenes of the other top English clubs.
City's points record was there for the taking last season but the players gave up once the title had been secured. Pep wouldn't have allowed that.
posted on 12/2/21
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champio... (U1108)
posted 46 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Why overlook Peps complete failure in the CL in his time at City.
posted on 12/2/21
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 4 minutes ago
"Klopp does remind me of Jose, Wenger etc , Amazing man managers but tactically arent up there."
Invalidates the whole article from otherwise what is a decent debate to be had.
Klopp has done something with his tactics that to this day Pep has never done throughout his career...and that is to include high intensity possession football WITH power & aggression mixed in.
Even at Bayern Pep couldn't do this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is an argument that the Brain who eventually left was behind the tactics you talk of.
I actually didn't say Klopp is tactically naive, he is just a better man manager.
He definitely tweaked the heavy metal stuff in the last 2 seasons to produce a liverpool team that was heavily reliant on its defense, fullbacks and the front 3.
Its understandable that now the defense has been ripped apart the team suffers a bit. I am just surprised its taking him this long to make the necessary adjustments.
posted on 12/2/21
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champione (U1108)
posted 47 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your entire midfield cost way more than ours but you dont hear us making any noise about that.
posted on 12/2/21
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champione (U1108)
posted 48 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Limited budget
You’ve broken two world records ffs
posted on 12/2/21
Never thought that these 'who is the best ever' competitions in sport have ever been helpful and prove anything much. It usually ends up with people insisting that it has to be somebody from the present era, simply because it is of 'their time' and that the passage of time naturally means 'human progress', which is of course nonsense in lots of ways.
Pep is probably the most successful coach of this generation/era in terms of winning trophies and adopting an idiosyncratic and expansive style of play which people can identify and appreciate. However, nothing much is 'new' and Pep has leant heavily on the Dutch influence at Barca and Johan Cruyff which is based on philosophy of Total Football created by Rinus Michels. So it could be argued that Michels had the best coaching mind ever?
posted on 12/2/21
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 10 minutes ago
"Klopp does remind me of Jose, Wenger etc , Amazing man managers but tactically arent up there."
Invalidates the whole article from otherwise what is a decent debate to be had.
Klopp has done something with his tactics that to this day Pep has never done throughout his career...and that is to include high intensity possession football WITH power & aggression mixed in.
Even at Bayern Pep couldn't do this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Peps last Barca side had aggression and possession. Maybe not power if its a relevant metric in this case but certainly the first 2.
posted on 12/2/21
comment by Neo (U9135)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) I'm the Mané - PL Champio... (U1108)
posted 46 minutes ago
So much disrespect to Klopp by the OP. Is he forgetting how clueless Pep was last season when Laporte was out for 3 months? You lost one defender and could not cope.
Your 4th choice CB costs more than all our defence put together if you exclude VVD.
Pep has not done what Klopp has done which is win league and European cup for a club with a very limited budget compared to what City, Bayern and Barca have had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Why overlook Peps complete failure in the CL in his time at City.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was actually going to come to that, but it needs its own article.
Page 1 of 5