comment by Izzy... Big Ange doesn't give a XXXX (U3410)
posted 15 minutes ago
"We could have done better in this tournament and that is disappointing"
Out of interest define "better". ....ahead of the Czechs in 3rd place
More points on the Board but still 4th in the group
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of them would be better
Now it's over for us, what did we learn? Can Clark qualify for more tournaments? Do we have a young centre back with the potential for greatness in our future to fix our defence?
Were the tactics used the right ones? Simply put, how does this team progress further?
IMO, Clark is the right man. He had us playing to our strengths, but his vision of what we could achieve was too realistic. He saw a team which might struggle to qualify, and played like one fighting at relegation instead of one trying to win at all costs.
This is why our team struggles to score in pressure games.
Clark's philosophy was too much about survival. We need him focused on progressing further instead of fearing the disappointment if success doesn't come.
In short, he needs a winner in his team, to sort out our offense. Maybe we might already have him.
Someone who can organise a team and lead on a field. Has experience in international and European football. And is a serial winner.
I'm talking about Scot Brown.
This player was viewed by many as too raw, yet was the key to several winning Celtic managers mid field's. Imagine if Clark had brown in the dug out when the team isn't clicking. Think how that could transform us into an organized winning machine. I think Clark could get us there, but he needs some help.
Overall I think we have reason to be positive. The glaring issue was putting the ball in the net, last night there were at least three times we had chances three yards out coming from great crosses and the players barely made contact with any of them.
The Czechs second goal was kick in the nads as well, we really should have got something from that game and then who knows.
Think the home advantage could have been a big deal with a full stadium as well so just unfortunate with that.
Let's not forget that Clarke was given the easiest ever route to qualify for a major tournament of ANY Scotland manager.
And he just scraped that in the lottery of a shootout.
He's not the man to take us forward.
we had to beat a team ranked 20 places above us away from home in a one off game to qualify
We get it a lot of Rangers fans don't like Clarke
Personally i'm gutted Scotland are out.
I've enjoyed watching a team that plays with passion.
I even watched them against Croatia whilst England bored their way to a win on the other channel.
Better luck next time...
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 7 minutes ago
we had to beat a team ranked 20 places above us away from home in a one off game to qualify
We get it a lot of Rangers fans don't like Clarke
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t want to mention the common denominator.
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 1 minute ago
we had to beat a team ranked 20 places above us away from home in a one off game to qualify
We get it a lot of Rangers fans don't like Clarke
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And in the Euros we faced the Czech Republic - a team only 4 places above us in the rankings at our home ground and we lost 2-0.
The draw with Serbia was a good result.
The loss to the Czechs was a big opportunity for a good result not taken.
Think the home advantage could have been a big deal with a full stadium as well so just unfortunate with that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we know for a fact that it would have turned the Celtic players into world beaters
It is easy for fans and pundits to pontificate where it is all wrong! Had Souness not had a dicky ticker he would have had the job offered if he wanted it. It would have been interesting for sure but no idea if he'd be a success playing possession football he wants to see?
Clarke was the right man at the right time.
My view however is we wont progress any further with him in charge and he's not suited to the types of player we now have at our disposal.
Ultimately Clarke won't change so I guess it just comes down to whether or not people feel he's getting more out of this group than they are capable of.
comment by Gersmid (U22273)
posted 3 minutes ago
Clarke was the right man at the right time.
My view however is we wont progress any further with him in charge and he's not suited to the types of player we now have at our disposal.
Ultimately Clarke won't change so I guess it just comes down to whether or not people feel he's getting more out of this group than they are capable of.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me there's been progress and whilst he's not throwing caps at them, he's been introducing younger and new faces to the squad. I think there's a decent group who can improve over next couple years. I think he got the selection wrong v Czechs, but overall tactically he does okay and doesn't expose the squad too much.
We dont have a superstar player. But we do have some very good players and some promising young talent coming through.
Ultimately Clarke isnt great at building teams to win games. Attacking wise I felt we had no real identity at these euros short of hit it long and try to get flick ons off Dykes.
Clarke is an experienced guy though so maybe he can develop that side to his game.
He needs to stop being such a miserable whank though. Scotland managers and players have taken stick from fans and the press since the dawn of time. Does he really only want good feedback?
Plus he needs to just accept ODonnell is rank. If he doesnt fancy Patterson, fine, but put someone else in the squad he does trust.
He also needs to accept that Dykes is basically Sam Cosgrove without the goals. I cant be any more damning than that.
International managers are loyal, they like working with the players they know and trust, it isn't just a Scotland thing
Whatever people think of O'Donnell he was never going to drop him for Patterson who's played about 10 games for Rangers
maybe as we switch back to WC qualifying he might start giving Patterson a chance but I'm sure he'd rather he was getting a regular game at Rangers for a kick off
Dykes done well in some of the qualifying games and he finished the season well with QPR, it's not like we've got many lining up behind him
Lets see what Nisbett has got in the next few games alongside Adams I agree but I'm not going to stick the boot in to Dykes especially when lots of people were hailing him playing for us a success only a few months ago
We are one or two superstars away from being able to compete. Wales are basically an English league one side with Bale and Ramsey. Having a couple of world class players that can create a goal out of nothing to win games is why Wales are where they are and where we are where we are.
Holding top teams for a bit is all well and good but you also need someone who can win the match for you in tournaments.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 2 minutes ago
International managers are loyal, they like working with the players they know and trust, it isn't just a Scotland thing
Whatever people think of O'Donnell he was never going to drop him for Patterson who's played about 10 games for Rangers
maybe as we switch back to WC qualifying he might start giving Patterson a chance but I'm sure he'd rather he was getting a regular game at Rangers for a kick off
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet he played Billy Gilmour who has a similar amount of first team experience as Patterson.
Why did he even include Patterson if he didnt have the trust in him?
I didnt think he was going to include Patterson in the squad - which was fair enough - he hasnt played many first team games. The ones he has played he has looked terrific mind you.
But if you put Patterson in the squad and sit and witness the pash poor performance of SOD against the Czechs and dont think your back up RB can do a better job than that for the last half hour of the game then its pretty valid to ask questions IMO.
Gilmour was probably only there because of Jack being injured, he obviously stood out when they were training and he wanted to move McTominay back and Gilmour was the only option for that role.
I can't remember O'Donnell letting us down before (maybe he has but Im struggling to remember) he was poor on Monday but he made up for it on Friday so there was no way he was getting dropped for last night
for the first goal last night, that still happens if Patterson is playing
comment by The Crystal Skull from thon Indiana Jones Disaster (U21917)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Back To Being Just My POV (U10636)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 7 minutes ago
we had to beat a team ranked 20 places above us away from home in a one off game to qualify
We get it a lot of Rangers fans don't like Clarke
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t want to mention the common denominator.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like Clarke, his style of football is torture to watch we played some decent stuff with worse players under Strachan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarke might be miserable but he's not an annoying fud.
This is the thing, before he got the gig, WGS had all the answers as a pundit. Gets the job and no successes from 3 goes at qualifying. Goes back to being a smartarse pundit with all the answers.
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 4 minutes ago
Gilmour was probably only there because of Jack being injured, he obviously stood out when they were training and he wanted to move McTominay back and Gilmour was the only option for that role.
I can't remember O'Donnell letting us down before (maybe he has but Im struggling to remember) he was poor on Monday but he made up for it on Friday so there was no way he was getting dropped for last night
for the first goal last night, that still happens if Patterson is playing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ODonnell is poor. Its not so much he is consistently blundering - its just that he is so incredibly limited and when he plays we essentially have zero attacking threat from our right wing back in a system where we could really do with some.
Dont get me wrong things like letting the ball run through his legs out for a throw under no pressure and tackling Ryan Christies werent great against the Czechs.
He gets the ball, takes a touch, looks up then turns and passes it back to the CB or keeper. 9 times out of 10.
Utterly pointless.
His lack of any positive contribution going forward on the right has a massive impact on how we play. It means everything has to go down the left.
Last night he made 1 attempt to beat his man and it was embarassing - he knocked the ball inside and ran straight into the lad.
SOD has been playing international football for a couple of years now and the best he could do was 6 month contracts at Motherwell.
Even Graham Shinnie got a move to the English Championship ffs....
Before he goes on to be the Celtic DoF
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by The Crystal Skull from thon Indiana Jones Disaster (U21917)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Back To Being Just My POV (U10636)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 7 minutes ago
we had to beat a team ranked 20 places above us away from home in a one off game to qualify
We get it a lot of Rangers fans don't like Clarke
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t want to mention the common denominator.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like Clarke, his style of football is torture to watch we played some decent stuff with worse players under Strachan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarke might be miserable but he's not an annoying fud.
This is the thing, before he got the gig, WGS had all the answers as a pundit. Gets the job and no successes from 3 goes at qualifying. Goes back to being a smartarse pundit with all the answers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with this. Strachan has never been a good manager. He got lucky getting the Celtic job where you automically have a good chance of winning trophies.
Done hee-haw anywhere else and carries this arrogant air about him like he's a know-all which a lot of people buy in to for some reason.
comment by Hot Shot Hamish (U21959)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 4 minutes ago
Gilmour was probably only there because of Jack being injured, he obviously stood out when they were training and he wanted to move McTominay back and Gilmour was the only option for that role.
I can't remember O'Donnell letting us down before (maybe he has but Im struggling to remember) he was poor on Monday but he made up for it on Friday so there was no way he was getting dropped for last night
for the first goal last night, that still happens if Patterson is playing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ODonnell is poor. Its not so much he is consistently blundering - its just that he is so incredibly limited and when he plays we essentially have zero attacking threat from our right wing back in a system where we could really do with some.
Dont get me wrong things like letting the ball run through his legs out for a throw under no pressure and tackling Ryan Christies werent great against the Czechs.
He gets the ball, takes a touch, looks up then turns and passes it back to the CB or keeper. 9 times out of 10.
Utterly pointless.
His lack of any positive contribution going forward on the right has a massive impact on how we play. It means everything has to go down the left.
Last night he made 1 attempt to beat his man and it was embarassing - he knocked the ball inside and ran straight into the lad.
SOD has been playing international football for a couple of years now and the best he could do was 6 month contracts at Motherwell.
Even Graham Shinnie got a move to the English Championship ffs....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have 2 class fullbacks but both can't play in their preferred position at left back.Now I don't see that many Scotland international games,but have you ever tried playing one of them at right back?
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Scotland
Page 4 of 5
posted on 23/6/21
comment by Izzy... Big Ange doesn't give a XXXX (U3410)
posted 15 minutes ago
"We could have done better in this tournament and that is disappointing"
Out of interest define "better". ....ahead of the Czechs in 3rd place
More points on the Board but still 4th in the group
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of them would be better
posted on 23/6/21
Now it's over for us, what did we learn? Can Clark qualify for more tournaments? Do we have a young centre back with the potential for greatness in our future to fix our defence?
Were the tactics used the right ones? Simply put, how does this team progress further?
IMO, Clark is the right man. He had us playing to our strengths, but his vision of what we could achieve was too realistic. He saw a team which might struggle to qualify, and played like one fighting at relegation instead of one trying to win at all costs.
This is why our team struggles to score in pressure games.
Clark's philosophy was too much about survival. We need him focused on progressing further instead of fearing the disappointment if success doesn't come.
In short, he needs a winner in his team, to sort out our offense. Maybe we might already have him.
Someone who can organise a team and lead on a field. Has experience in international and European football. And is a serial winner.
I'm talking about Scot Brown.
This player was viewed by many as too raw, yet was the key to several winning Celtic managers mid field's. Imagine if Clark had brown in the dug out when the team isn't clicking. Think how that could transform us into an organized winning machine. I think Clark could get us there, but he needs some help.
posted on 23/6/21
Overall I think we have reason to be positive. The glaring issue was putting the ball in the net, last night there were at least three times we had chances three yards out coming from great crosses and the players barely made contact with any of them.
The Czechs second goal was kick in the nads as well, we really should have got something from that game and then who knows.
Think the home advantage could have been a big deal with a full stadium as well so just unfortunate with that.
posted on 23/6/21
Let's not forget that Clarke was given the easiest ever route to qualify for a major tournament of ANY Scotland manager.
And he just scraped that in the lottery of a shootout.
He's not the man to take us forward.
posted on 23/6/21
we had to beat a team ranked 20 places above us away from home in a one off game to qualify
We get it a lot of Rangers fans don't like Clarke
posted on 23/6/21
Personally i'm gutted Scotland are out.
I've enjoyed watching a team that plays with passion.
I even watched them against Croatia whilst England bored their way to a win on the other channel.
Better luck next time...
posted on 23/6/21
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 7 minutes ago
we had to beat a team ranked 20 places above us away from home in a one off game to qualify
We get it a lot of Rangers fans don't like Clarke
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t want to mention the common denominator.
posted on 23/6/21
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 1 minute ago
we had to beat a team ranked 20 places above us away from home in a one off game to qualify
We get it a lot of Rangers fans don't like Clarke
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And in the Euros we faced the Czech Republic - a team only 4 places above us in the rankings at our home ground and we lost 2-0.
The draw with Serbia was a good result.
The loss to the Czechs was a big opportunity for a good result not taken.
posted on 23/6/21
Think the home advantage could have been a big deal with a full stadium as well so just unfortunate with that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we know for a fact that it would have turned the Celtic players into world beaters
posted on 23/6/21
It is easy for fans and pundits to pontificate where it is all wrong! Had Souness not had a dicky ticker he would have had the job offered if he wanted it. It would have been interesting for sure but no idea if he'd be a success playing possession football he wants to see?
posted on 23/6/21
Clarke was the right man at the right time.
My view however is we wont progress any further with him in charge and he's not suited to the types of player we now have at our disposal.
Ultimately Clarke won't change so I guess it just comes down to whether or not people feel he's getting more out of this group than they are capable of.
posted on 23/6/21
comment by Gersmid (U22273)
posted 3 minutes ago
Clarke was the right man at the right time.
My view however is we wont progress any further with him in charge and he's not suited to the types of player we now have at our disposal.
Ultimately Clarke won't change so I guess it just comes down to whether or not people feel he's getting more out of this group than they are capable of.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me there's been progress and whilst he's not throwing caps at them, he's been introducing younger and new faces to the squad. I think there's a decent group who can improve over next couple years. I think he got the selection wrong v Czechs, but overall tactically he does okay and doesn't expose the squad too much.
posted on 23/6/21
We dont have a superstar player. But we do have some very good players and some promising young talent coming through.
Ultimately Clarke isnt great at building teams to win games. Attacking wise I felt we had no real identity at these euros short of hit it long and try to get flick ons off Dykes.
Clarke is an experienced guy though so maybe he can develop that side to his game.
He needs to stop being such a miserable whank though. Scotland managers and players have taken stick from fans and the press since the dawn of time. Does he really only want good feedback?
Plus he needs to just accept ODonnell is rank. If he doesnt fancy Patterson, fine, but put someone else in the squad he does trust.
He also needs to accept that Dykes is basically Sam Cosgrove without the goals. I cant be any more damning than that.
posted on 23/6/21
International managers are loyal, they like working with the players they know and trust, it isn't just a Scotland thing
Whatever people think of O'Donnell he was never going to drop him for Patterson who's played about 10 games for Rangers
maybe as we switch back to WC qualifying he might start giving Patterson a chance but I'm sure he'd rather he was getting a regular game at Rangers for a kick off
posted on 23/6/21
Dykes done well in some of the qualifying games and he finished the season well with QPR, it's not like we've got many lining up behind him
Lets see what Nisbett has got in the next few games alongside Adams I agree but I'm not going to stick the boot in to Dykes especially when lots of people were hailing him playing for us a success only a few months ago
posted on 23/6/21
We are one or two superstars away from being able to compete. Wales are basically an English league one side with Bale and Ramsey. Having a couple of world class players that can create a goal out of nothing to win games is why Wales are where they are and where we are where we are.
Holding top teams for a bit is all well and good but you also need someone who can win the match for you in tournaments.
posted on 23/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 23/6/21
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 2 minutes ago
International managers are loyal, they like working with the players they know and trust, it isn't just a Scotland thing
Whatever people think of O'Donnell he was never going to drop him for Patterson who's played about 10 games for Rangers
maybe as we switch back to WC qualifying he might start giving Patterson a chance but I'm sure he'd rather he was getting a regular game at Rangers for a kick off
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet he played Billy Gilmour who has a similar amount of first team experience as Patterson.
Why did he even include Patterson if he didnt have the trust in him?
I didnt think he was going to include Patterson in the squad - which was fair enough - he hasnt played many first team games. The ones he has played he has looked terrific mind you.
But if you put Patterson in the squad and sit and witness the pash poor performance of SOD against the Czechs and dont think your back up RB can do a better job than that for the last half hour of the game then its pretty valid to ask questions IMO.
posted on 23/6/21
Gilmour was probably only there because of Jack being injured, he obviously stood out when they were training and he wanted to move McTominay back and Gilmour was the only option for that role.
I can't remember O'Donnell letting us down before (maybe he has but Im struggling to remember) he was poor on Monday but he made up for it on Friday so there was no way he was getting dropped for last night
for the first goal last night, that still happens if Patterson is playing
posted on 23/6/21
comment by The Crystal Skull from thon Indiana Jones Disaster (U21917)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Back To Being Just My POV (U10636)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 7 minutes ago
we had to beat a team ranked 20 places above us away from home in a one off game to qualify
We get it a lot of Rangers fans don't like Clarke
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t want to mention the common denominator.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like Clarke, his style of football is torture to watch we played some decent stuff with worse players under Strachan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarke might be miserable but he's not an annoying fud.
This is the thing, before he got the gig, WGS had all the answers as a pundit. Gets the job and no successes from 3 goes at qualifying. Goes back to being a smartarse pundit with all the answers.
posted on 23/6/21
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 4 minutes ago
Gilmour was probably only there because of Jack being injured, he obviously stood out when they were training and he wanted to move McTominay back and Gilmour was the only option for that role.
I can't remember O'Donnell letting us down before (maybe he has but Im struggling to remember) he was poor on Monday but he made up for it on Friday so there was no way he was getting dropped for last night
for the first goal last night, that still happens if Patterson is playing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ODonnell is poor. Its not so much he is consistently blundering - its just that he is so incredibly limited and when he plays we essentially have zero attacking threat from our right wing back in a system where we could really do with some.
Dont get me wrong things like letting the ball run through his legs out for a throw under no pressure and tackling Ryan Christies werent great against the Czechs.
He gets the ball, takes a touch, looks up then turns and passes it back to the CB or keeper. 9 times out of 10.
Utterly pointless.
His lack of any positive contribution going forward on the right has a massive impact on how we play. It means everything has to go down the left.
Last night he made 1 attempt to beat his man and it was embarassing - he knocked the ball inside and ran straight into the lad.
SOD has been playing international football for a couple of years now and the best he could do was 6 month contracts at Motherwell.
Even Graham Shinnie got a move to the English Championship ffs....
posted on 23/6/21
Before he goes on to be the Celtic DoF
posted on 23/6/21
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by The Crystal Skull from thon Indiana Jones Disaster (U21917)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Back To Being Just My POV (U10636)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 7 minutes ago
we had to beat a team ranked 20 places above us away from home in a one off game to qualify
We get it a lot of Rangers fans don't like Clarke
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn’t want to mention the common denominator.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like Clarke, his style of football is torture to watch we played some decent stuff with worse players under Strachan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarke might be miserable but he's not an annoying fud.
This is the thing, before he got the gig, WGS had all the answers as a pundit. Gets the job and no successes from 3 goes at qualifying. Goes back to being a smartarse pundit with all the answers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with this. Strachan has never been a good manager. He got lucky getting the Celtic job where you automically have a good chance of winning trophies.
Done hee-haw anywhere else and carries this arrogant air about him like he's a know-all which a lot of people buy in to for some reason.
posted on 23/6/21
comment by Hot Shot Hamish (U21959)
posted 1 hour, 20 minutes ago
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 4 minutes ago
Gilmour was probably only there because of Jack being injured, he obviously stood out when they were training and he wanted to move McTominay back and Gilmour was the only option for that role.
I can't remember O'Donnell letting us down before (maybe he has but Im struggling to remember) he was poor on Monday but he made up for it on Friday so there was no way he was getting dropped for last night
for the first goal last night, that still happens if Patterson is playing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ODonnell is poor. Its not so much he is consistently blundering - its just that he is so incredibly limited and when he plays we essentially have zero attacking threat from our right wing back in a system where we could really do with some.
Dont get me wrong things like letting the ball run through his legs out for a throw under no pressure and tackling Ryan Christies werent great against the Czechs.
He gets the ball, takes a touch, looks up then turns and passes it back to the CB or keeper. 9 times out of 10.
Utterly pointless.
His lack of any positive contribution going forward on the right has a massive impact on how we play. It means everything has to go down the left.
Last night he made 1 attempt to beat his man and it was embarassing - he knocked the ball inside and ran straight into the lad.
SOD has been playing international football for a couple of years now and the best he could do was 6 month contracts at Motherwell.
Even Graham Shinnie got a move to the English Championship ffs....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have 2 class fullbacks but both can't play in their preferred position at left back.Now I don't see that many Scotland international games,but have you ever tried playing one of them at right back?
posted on 23/6/21
Cheers.
Page 4 of 5