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Another loan for Saliba

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posted on 3/7/21

comment by Girøulski Alt-0216 forever (U14971)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Benji 3 Lion (U22649)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Girøulski Alt-0216 forever (U14971)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
I might argue that sending Saliba to the same club as Guendouzi might be a mistake given that they're good friends, and Arteta considers Saliba as someone who needs to grow up and Guendouzi as someone who never will.
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I am not sure thats how growing up works sunshine
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Silly me for thinking our environment and social connections have an effect on us.
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To a certain extent yes. But I think you are overstating the importance of Guendouzi.

posted on 3/7/21

comment by Girøulski Alt-0216 forever (U14971)
posted 2 minutes ago

But, to suggest Arsenal only get information on his personality when he's physically present is daft.
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I would think you would take a dim view on those who operate on hearsay and second hand 'tittle tattle' if that was the case. I doubt a £30m investment is made on the basis of a 20 year olds character especially when none of his previous managers have commented negatively on anything he has done of the pitch. Especially when they are being paid to play football and not marry his daughter.

posted on 3/7/21

comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Girøulski Alt-0216 forever (U14971)
posted 2 minutes ago

But, to suggest Arsenal only get information on his personality when he's physically present is daft.
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I would think you would take a dim view on those who operate on hearsay and second hand 'tittle tattle' if that was the case. I doubt a £30m investment is made on the basis of a 20 year olds character especially when none of his previous managers have commented negatively on anything he has done of the pitch. Especially when they are being paid to play football and not marry his daughter.
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There's a gap between gossip on twitter and conversations between our loans manager and coaching staff at the loan club.

To be honest with you, I think Arteta simply overvalues experience in the position and that's why he won't consider Saliba. Saliba's build up play is also not quite where Arteta wants it, which is why he coveted David Luiz and is why we're signing Ben White.

posted on 3/7/21

comment by Girøulski Alt-0216 forever (U14971)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Girøulski Alt-0216 forever (U14971)
posted 2 minutes ago

But, to suggest Arsenal only get information on his personality when he's physically present is daft.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would think you would take a dim view on those who operate on hearsay and second hand 'tittle tattle' if that was the case. I doubt a £30m investment is made on the basis of a 20 year olds character especially when none of his previous managers have commented negatively on anything he has done of the pitch. Especially when they are being paid to play football and not marry his daughter.
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There's a gap between gossip on twitter and conversations between our loans manager and coaching staff at the loan club.

To be honest with you, I think Arteta simply overvalues experience in the position and that's why he won't consider Saliba. Saliba's build up play is also not quite where Arteta wants it, which is why he coveted David Luiz and is why we're signing Ben White.
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How would Arteta know if Saliba is capable of doing what you suggest without keeping him for a season and playing him? Saliba's passing stats are actually better than Ben Whites.

Passing accuracy
William Saliba – 91.3%
Pablo Mari – 87.7%
Rob Holding – 87%
Gabriel – 85.7%
Ben White – 83.2%
Calum Chambers – 83.9%
Konstantinos Mavropanos – 79.2%

posted on 3/7/21

This guy did a very nice comparison on twitter.

https://twitter.com/TheArsenalog/status/1410928210997497859/photo/1

posted on 3/7/21

'How would Arteta know if Saliba is capable of doing what you suggest without keeping him for a season and playing him?'

The same way that brings us to buy Ben White.

'Saliba's passing stats are actually better than Ben Whites.'

In a much slower, less physical league.


I think the more valid comparison is Saliba and Holding or Mari.

But then, I wanted us to give Mavropanos a chance next season, so...

posted on 3/7/21

Seems to me that Arteta is taking a very cautious approach.

I think if we'd have had, say, Brentford, Wolves, and Newcastle as our first three games then we may have seen something different in the Saliba situation. As it stands there is a very good chance that we could end up on zero points after playing Brentford (away), City, and Chelsea. The pressure on Arteta if he loses these games will be immense, especially with our unhappy supporters. It's going to be like a pressure cooker in our stadium as it is.

Having two young players who are, essentially, brand new to the club would be too much of a risk to Mikel. We could have been starting our season with a new GK, new RB, and also a new RCB in our back five. I think he's opted to have Holding now starting at RCB, and White (if we get him) being phased in over the first half of the year.

If this is his thinking then I can understand it, albeit I am disappointed to see Saliba back on loan. Rumours are that he was told who wanted him on loan and he opted for Marseille. I think we've just agreed to it to try and keep him as sweet as possible. That's the only explanation I can think of as to why it's not a Prem team he's gone to.

posted on 4/7/21

comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 14 hours, 8 minutes ago
'How would Arteta know if Saliba is capable of doing what you suggest without keeping him for a season and playing him?'

The same way that brings us to buy Ben White.
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There is a book on Ben White. Whereas you keep on believing blogs that say Saliba is 'raw'. I think most fans wouldn't be so irate if it looked as if Arteta was giving him a fair chance.


Saliba's passing stats are actually better than Ben Whites.'

In a much slower, less physical league.
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Yes, I agree which is why I defended Arteta when the rumour was that Saliba was signing for Newcastle. That made sense because the club could then monitor his development at a higher level. Sending him to an other French club however suggests that the club are parking him away from Arsenal while the Arteta saga plays out.

posted on 4/7/21

comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 17 hours, 3 minutes ago
This guy did a very nice comparison on twitter.

https://twitter.com/TheArsenalog/status/1410928210997497859/photo/1
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The trouble with those kinds of analysis, although the do shine light, do not reflect truly what is going on.

You might like this breakdown from TIFO (part of The Athletic) on why Arsenal want to sign Ben White. On paper, he is more an Arteta player than Saliba.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTJzF3KOEfI

posted on 4/7/21

comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 hours, 11 minutes ago
comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 14 hours, 8 minutes ago
'How would Arteta know if Saliba is capable of doing what you suggest without keeping him for a season and playing him?'

The same way that brings us to buy Ben White.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a book on Ben White. Whereas you keep on believing blogs that say Saliba is 'raw'. I think most fans wouldn't be so irate if it looked as if Arteta was giving him a fair chance.


Saliba's passing stats are actually better than Ben Whites.'

In a much slower, less physical league.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I agree which is why I defended Arteta when the rumour was that Saliba was signing for Newcastle. That made sense because the club could then monitor his development at a higher level. Sending him to an other French club however suggests that the club are parking him away from Arsenal while the Arteta saga plays out.
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Assuming you’re reacting to my comment on the Arsenal Thread, as I explained there, those are the same voices that were telling everyone for the last two years how exciting a talent Saliba is. Now they’re being a slightly more cautious, are their opinions suddenly less relevant?

I agree about the Newcastle loan making much more sense than him going back to Ligue 1. Tbh it suggests Arteta isn’t overly bothered about him getting used to the league or British culture. And to my mind that says, despite what the official line from the club is, that’s he’s no future at Arsenal.

Apparently we even let him decide where to go on loan. I mean, is that normal for loan moves? Maybe it was a test. Pick a PL club and we’ll see. Go back to cosy old France and you’re done.

Maybe Saliba doesn’t really care, but feels like he’s signed his own exit note this week. I just hope he’s retained some value by the time we sell him next summer.

posted on 4/7/21

The whole situation is depressing, isn't it?

comment by IAWT (U10012)

posted on 4/7/21

Apparently we even let him decide where to go on loan. I mean, is that normal for loan moves? Maybe it was a test. Pick a PL club and we’ll see. Go back to cosy old France and you’re done.

Maybe Saliba doesn’t really care, but feels like he’s signed his own exit note this week. I just hope he’s retained some value by the time we sell him next summer.
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It didn’t take long before the blame been shifted to the player.
Are we blaming him for picking up a French club when his only experience in the UK is 6 months spent at home because the club who signed him refused to register him despite having 50+ games in the agenda?
Also, didn’t we send Gnabry to a PL. That turned out really well in terms of games time.
If we really wanted Saliba to remain in the premier league, then we could have make even if it’s just to protect the investment. He’s not staying in the PL because we didn’t him to stay. Simple as that

posted on 4/7/21

‘He’s not staying in the PL because we didn’t him to stay.’

Apparently Ornstein says the choice was left to the player.

I’ve already questioned whether that’s normal for a club to be so hands off when it comes to loan destinations, so I’m not sure why you’re suggestion I’m blaming the player.

Just also I don’t blame him for the size fee he cost us, when we so needed strengthening in other areas the summer we spunked £28m down the loo. Nor the time, and effort (at least on our part) invested in him since.

It’s also not he’s fault Arsenal fans are now shouting at each other online about whether he’s developed enough yet for the PL.

He had the chance to prove that next season though. But he’s gone for the safer option of a league he already knows he can handle.

He’s only 20.

I don’t blame him.

posted on 4/7/21

Interesting TIFO vid, Girøulski.

Thanks for posting 👍

comment by IAWT (U10012)

posted on 4/7/21


He had the chance to prove that next season though. But he’s gone for the safer option of a league he already knows he can handle
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I seriously doubt the reason he decided to go back to ligue 1 is because he knows he can handle it. I believe it’s more to do with guaranteed playing time so it’s only safer from that point of view. And you can’t really blame it for after the way Arsenal handle the first part of last season. After all, if he had doubts about whether or not he can handle the PL, then he wouldn’t have signed for Arsenal in the first place. Plus, Fofana who was his partner at St-Etienne is now fully part of the starting XI. So where would those doubt come from?

posted on 4/7/21

comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 17 minutes ago
Interesting TIFO vid, Girøulski.

Thanks for posting 👍
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They're really good in general. When The Athletic went down to a quid a month (might still be) I jumped on it!

posted on 4/7/21

A loan move is the correct move for Saliba.

If he had stayed here, Artitler would never have played him. Look at last season when he didn’t even name him in the Europa League squad for the group stages.

It’s clear as day that Artitler puts his personal opinion of a player ahead of his professional opinion. This is why the likes of Saliba, Guen, Martinelli, Ozil, Sokratis, AMN and Cedric were completely ostracised from the squad, most without reason.

posted on 4/7/21

I don’t doubt playing time is important to him, but he’s only ‘guaranteed’ to get that more at a French club than an English one because the manager there will know he can handle it - which makes it the safer option for Saliba.

Now some might say that in itself suggests he’s not ready for a tougher challenge. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt. He’s young. He’s had a difficult time the last couple of years, as many have. He’s still got time on his side.

After next season, with regards to the time left on his contract, Arsenal won’t. Which is why I now think he won’t ever play for us.

The only thing that might sway me on that, is if Arteta is sacked at some point next season. But that will only happen if Arsenal are doing badly.

Guess it comes down to what’s more important to you. Arsenal FC, or a French 21 centre-back who, apparently, now currently plays for Marseille.

posted on 4/7/21

In reply to IAWT ^

posted on 4/7/21

comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 2 hours, 21 minutes ago

Assuming you’re reacting to my comment on the Arsenal Thread, as I explained there, those are the same voices that were telling everyone for the last two years how exciting a talent Saliba is. Now they’re being a slightly more cautious, are their opinions suddenly less relevant?
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In my opinion the 'arsenal' blogs were towing the club line then as they are now. We have a sycophant type poster on this forum who describes himself as an insider often twists himself in knots doing the same.

To me what made him an exciting prospect was the fact we spent £28m on him because he was regarded that highly by Arsenal scouts and neutral analysts not because what the blogs said.

posted on 4/7/21

We spent £72m on Pepe in the same window though and, as good as he’s been at points during his time at Arsenal, I don’t think it’s stretching things to say everyone knows we paid well over the odds for him.

So going by what you’ve said, you’d presumably be at lot less invested in Saliba if we’d spent say... £15m on him? Which would be understandable of course.

Trouble with the other part of your comment, none of the people involved in bringing both Pepe and Saliba are still at the club.

Probably with good reason.

posted on 4/7/21

As for me point of reference re Saliba possibly not being ready yet, it wasn’t one bloke typing a blog. It comes from a podcast with four contributors - though the edition in question only featured two of them.

Funnily enough the host, who’s the most critical of Arsenal and Arteta, and the more levelled headed, analytical of the contributors.

They both offered the same opinion on Saliba.

posted on 4/7/21

comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 25 minutes ago
We spent £72m on Pepe in the same window though and, as good as he’s been at points during his time at Arsenal, I don’t think it’s stretching things to say everyone knows we paid well over the odds for him.

So going by what you’ve said, you’d presumably be at lot less invested in Saliba if we’d spent say... £15m on him? Which would be understandable of course.

Trouble with the other part of your comment, none of the people involved in bringing both Pepe and Saliba are still at the club.

Probably with good reason.
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There was inferred wrong doing in the Pepe deal. With Lille claiming they received a fraction of the claimed fee. I haven't hear anything about over valuation in Saliba's case though.

posted on 4/7/21

Both deals seem dodgy to me. As does Cedric’s.

posted on 4/7/21

comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 21 minutes ago
As for me point of reference re Saliba possibly not being ready yet, it wasn’t one bloke typing a blog. It comes from a podcast with four contributors - though the edition in question only featured two of them.

Funnily enough the host, who’s the most critical of Arsenal and Arteta, and the more levelled headed, analytical of the contributors.

They both offered the same opinion on Saliba.
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No can know what the ceiling is for Saliba at this point because of his age. There are 'raw' players at Arsenal. Why are there excuses being made for Saliba not to be at Arsenal if its not to protect a very questionable club decision?

However what you can be critical of is how Arteta has handled him so far. And lets be honest here. The criticisms of Arteta are in line with how he has treated Emi, AMN, Martinelli, ESR, Auba, Willock, Gouen and Saliba. I believe Arteta has a problem with anyone whose lifestyle varies from his perception of how one should conduct themselves. That in my opinion is very poor. We can all be judgemental as fans but good managers need to get the best out of all personalities. Their job depends on it.

Messi, C.Ronaldo, Mbappe, Neymar are difficult personalities. Its part of what makes them so special.

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