comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 11 minutes ago
A good article by Gareth too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really is isn't it? My only slight quibble is that he mentions 'island' in there. England isn't an island. I know it's probably not deliberate on his part but many people see England = UK/GB which does grate a bit. There's always that grey area when the news talk about 'nation' or 'country' on the BBC/ITV news. Where exactly are they talking about?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i would hazard a guess that the BBC/ITV are talking about the United Kingdom.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it happens that when "national" media (based in London) talks about specifically English things, they sometimes slip and talk about "the country". It requires extra words to specify that it's the English part of the country, and restricts the number of pronouns or synonyms you can use for the sake of linguistic efficiency and variety, so from an editorial point of view I can understand the driver for this. But I get how irritating it must be for Scottish and Welsh audiences, and also how this feeds into a sense of being governed by an foreign land - when your national media regularly acts as though you don't exist.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Jed Maxwell (U1449)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Just Shoot SOQ (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jed Maxwell (U1449)
posted 3 minutes ago
I don’t get patriotism at all, but that’s just me, you’re born where you’re born, wherever that is doesn’t make you any better or worse than the next man ( unless they’re Scottish, French or German) if England win the Euro’s I’ll be buzzing all the same
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you explain...
I don't get patriotism at all
and
If England win the Euros I'll be buzzing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I’ll be buzzing if England win because I’ve watched them fail all my life and they’re my local international side
But I don’t care for royalty, flags, historical naval battles etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's why I think this England team has the potential to be quite culturally important, because it offers a new definition of patriotism. Hardly anyone in the country right now will stick their head above the parapet and claim they aren't patriotic, or they're anti-English, because we're having a moment as close to universal shared joyful experience as is possible in these atomised times. It's a living illustration that pride in England can be embodied in a group of talented, humble (multi-racial) lads, who see no contradiction between their pride in their love for their country and their stances against racism or homophobia or child poverty. In fact, it's part of the same continuum: you love your country, so of course you want to protect it from the scourge of racism. There's a continuum between the generosity of spirit you see in their progressive gestures and the generosity you see in the way they interact with random kids (e.g. Mason Mount going into the Wembley crowd to give his shirt to a little girl or Rashford's kindness on social media).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I like the way quite a lot of them handle themselves, they seem quite grounded people, and it’s easy to relate to people like that compared to the privileged few who I have absolutely nothing in common with who people want to reign over us
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 11 minutes ago
A good article by Gareth too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really is isn't it? My only slight quibble is that he mentions 'island' in there. England isn't an island. I know it's probably not deliberate on his part but many people see England = UK/GB which does grate a bit. There's always that grey area when the news talk about 'nation' or 'country' on the BBC/ITV news. Where exactly are they talking about?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i would hazard a guess that the BBC/ITV are talking about the United Kingdom.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On the contrary, I don't think they know what they are talking about and are lazy. Covid has brought it into focus and because it dominates the news just now there is huge awareness that the 4 regions are different.
However, in most other matters assumptions are made like articles about the school holidays starting when Scotland and NI will have started weeks previous or an article about an injunction preventing publication of a story when they've forgotten to issue one in Scotland so we've all seen it.
TBH most of us just chuckle or roll our eyes and groan about the EBC but it would be pretty monotonous if they were constantly qualifying their stories for each region. On the other hand, the assumption is it is English unless otherwise stated and that grates a bit. Oh and the fact the beeb only spend 65p for every pound collected from Scotland. Not sure the numbers for the other regions.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 11 minutes ago
A good article by Gareth too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really is isn't it? My only slight quibble is that he mentions 'island' in there. England isn't an island. I know it's probably not deliberate on his part but many people see England = UK/GB which does grate a bit. There's always that grey area when the news talk about 'nation' or 'country' on the BBC/ITV news. Where exactly are they talking about?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i would hazard a guess that the BBC/ITV are talking about the United Kingdom.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it happens that when "national" media (based in London) talks about specifically English things, they sometimes slip and talk about "the country". It requires extra words to specify that it's the English part of the country, and restricts the number of pronouns or synonyms you can use for the sake of linguistic efficiency and variety, so from an editorial point of view I can understand the driver for this. But I get how irritating it must be for Scottish and Welsh audiences, and also how this feeds into a sense of being governed by an foreign land - when your national media regularly acts as though you don't exist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for explaining that so well.
I know it may seem trivial but it is a bit of a bug bear of mine. My job at times requires me to answer people's questions about Covid rules for businesses. When I get them the right info for Wales I'm sometimes met with 'But that's not what we saw in the news'.
Under devolution Scotland Wales and NI have their own autonomy from the UK parliament in areas such as health which includes Covid restrictions.
England Wales and Scotland also have always had their own Football Associations and so as trivial as it might seem as a Scot you are not 'obliged under patriotic law to support England or Wales and there same goes visa versa. However as we are a United Kingdom without controlled borders many Scots and Welsh live in England and visa versa, so if you are English living in Scotland or Wales and England win, you are entitled to celebrate that in any part of the UK. Hence why celebrations are talking place all over the country (Ie The UK).
rejecting europe only to open up to the world
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
OK, finally had time to read the OP and link.
People will always support the familiar. They will root for people from their country, town or neighbourhood. The problem comes when people take these things as a source of pride thinking they are better than others.
There seems to have been a shift away from political patriotism which glorifies the establishment to a more community form.
I, myself, root for the England team, but have no interest in all that establishment patriotism.
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you have to wonder whether those countries wanted to host during the pandemic and whether they or UEFA believed they were capable
England has risked it, so far most of England's risks during the pandemic have been pretty catastrophic
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you have to wonder whether those countries wanted to host during the pandemic and whether they or UEFA believed they were capable
England has risked it, so far most of England's risks during the pandemic have been pretty catastrophic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The decision was made in 2014, a long time before any pandemic.
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you have to wonder whether those countries wanted to host during the pandemic and whether they or UEFA believed they were capable
England has risked it, so far most of England's risks during the pandemic have been pretty catastrophic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The decision was made in 2014, a long time before any pandemic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You sure? Thought several changes were made/decided this year
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you have to wonder whether those countries wanted to host during the pandemic and whether they or UEFA believed they were capable
England has risked it, so far most of England's risks during the pandemic have been pretty catastrophic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The decision was made in 2014, a long time before any pandemic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You sure? Thought several changes were made/decided this year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From Wiki
The final list of bids was published by UEFA on 26 April 2014, with a decision on the hosts being made by the UEFA Executive Committee on 19 September 2014.
-----------
Turkey bid for the tournament but looks like they were not even given a sniff
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you have to wonder whether those countries wanted to host during the pandemic and whether they or UEFA believed they were capable
England has risked it, so far most of England's risks during the pandemic have been pretty catastrophic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The decision was made in 2014, a long time before any pandemic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You sure? Thought several changes were made/decided this year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From Wiki
The final list of bids was published by UEFA on 26 April 2014, with a decision on the hosts being made by the UEFA Executive Committee on 19 September 2014.
-----------
Turkey bid for the tournament but looks like they were not even given a sniff
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I saw that regarding Turkey
From the Wikipedia it mentions only England and Germany bid for the finals package. I read elsewhere that Germany conceded it as they'll be hosting 2024.
Those changes regarding Covid were pretty minor looking into it further. A few stadiums changed and Dublin pulling out as they couldn't guarantee spectators being allowed into stadiums
Good article OP
Those booing the taking of the knee are proper snowflakes, they are hiding behind the nonsense that they don`t like the Marxist propaganda behind the act of going on one knee. What a load of nonsense, they are booing because they are closet racists, simple as that.
The nonsense that Jason Pickford, and the rest of the team are supporting Marxism is very amusing. Talk about brainwashing the masses.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 17 hours, 20 minutes ago
I'm not particularly patriotic (find it a strange concept personally) but this England squad seem like a nice group of lads who are really enjoying themselves and Southgate can take a lot of credit for creating that environment. It's great that there's a wide range of ethnic diversity too which really is positive and something football does brilliantly at.
Anyone who has an issue with the players tacking the knee can f-ck off, as can all the tories and their gesture politics during the Euros, especailly Priti Patel the c-nt.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
But I’ve never really had that extreme tribalism either. Like I support United because my Dad told me to when I was 8 and it gives you a way to enjoy the sport more when you have a team to follow but when it comes to stuff like Gerrard v Lampard v Scholes or defending poor decisions that went my teams way I don’t really, unless I’m just messing around. I find it really odd when you see a group of fans argue with someone who supports someone else simply because of that reason, it’s weird. I live in London, most my friends support other teams and we usually go to the pub together and watch whatever game is on and wind each other up a little but it’s all harmless fun. When people claim fans from other clubs are bad and then I think about how many morons there are on this forum alone that support United.
Patriotism doesn’t have to be negative like you say but if often allows for negatively towards others to manifest. If you want to be proud of things your country has done then you also at least have to be aware of the terrible things too. I’ll support England tomorrow like I have all Euros because it’s a great way to be with friends and family and enjoy a culturally significant event, not because I’m patriotic or proud to be English.
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 17 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 28 minutes ago
MU52 I don't mean this in a bad way but how would you think you moving to France differs to the Pakistani family moving into your community.
It's an interesting subject for me as I don't really care where people are from as long as they respect the local culture and are decent people. Like I'm certain you are from your posts on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's different in as much as I speak French, had already worked over here, and we have a lot in common, football for a starter. Also my other half is French.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that was the case MU52.
I was just confused when you wrote 'Further more despite living in France for over eleven years, I shout for England, never France, and feel English with no part of me French.' because that didn't sound much like what you've previously described before of your wonderful life there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does what he says go against him having a wonderful life?
If we go live on Mars, we would still be Earthlings, right, with no part of us Martian and never cheering for the Martian Spaceball team?
comment by GunaDave (U7710)
posted 17 hours, 48 minutes ago
Wow Red.
Well reasoned and not much any sensible, decent person could have issue with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a challenge...
comment by Just Shoot - C'mon England!! 🏴 (U10408)
posted 55 minutes ago
A few on here saying they don't understand patriotism/find it strange/aren't that patriotic. Tbh, I find that odd as patriotism is just a form of tribalism which is rampant through football. The penalty decision your team gets that you defend, the fouls, the players you admire in your team - it's all from the same psychological sphere as patriotism. Gerrard Vs Lampard Vs Scholes. My guess is who you think is better differed from if you're Liverpool, Chelsea or United. It's just a localised form of patriotism.
It's a natural state in humans and to be without any form of tribalism is very isolating and anti-human.
Of course patriotism is on a sliding scale ranging from just the football team to others more extreme forms of believing your country can do no wrong.
As a final thought, patriotism doesn't have to be negative or disrespectful towards others. Understand it for what it is, in its beauty it's a bonding tool, in its vulgarity it is a decisive tool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Patriotism in a way is a form of discrimination. You are preferring a person/group of people, to another, based on a specific characteristic.
Which for me is absolutely fine. Absolutely fine, indeed. And I’d urge anyone who disagrees with this to consider if they would favour someone because of a certain characteristic, in another scenario, say for example you have a choice of saving either your own offspring from a burning building, or a random stranger.
In the end, we all discriminate, in favour of the people we love. So let’s all take our “I love everybody equally” hats off, because it’s hardly ever (maybe never?) the case we have zero levels of indiscrimination in any decision.
Good article though and well thought out.
Discrimination*
One thing I did find very surprising, I’m normallly out smoking just before a game so rarely see the kick offs, was how many teams didn’t take the knee.
Surprised by the Dutch, French and even Scotland, not always partaking.
And Hungary and Poland, I thought they’d have double kneed
Sign in if you want to comment
This team and Englishness
Page 3 of 4
posted on 9/7/21
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 11 minutes ago
A good article by Gareth too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really is isn't it? My only slight quibble is that he mentions 'island' in there. England isn't an island. I know it's probably not deliberate on his part but many people see England = UK/GB which does grate a bit. There's always that grey area when the news talk about 'nation' or 'country' on the BBC/ITV news. Where exactly are they talking about?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i would hazard a guess that the BBC/ITV are talking about the United Kingdom.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it happens that when "national" media (based in London) talks about specifically English things, they sometimes slip and talk about "the country". It requires extra words to specify that it's the English part of the country, and restricts the number of pronouns or synonyms you can use for the sake of linguistic efficiency and variety, so from an editorial point of view I can understand the driver for this. But I get how irritating it must be for Scottish and Welsh audiences, and also how this feeds into a sense of being governed by an foreign land - when your national media regularly acts as though you don't exist.
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Jed Maxwell (U1449)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Just Shoot SOQ (U10408)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jed Maxwell (U1449)
posted 3 minutes ago
I don’t get patriotism at all, but that’s just me, you’re born where you’re born, wherever that is doesn’t make you any better or worse than the next man ( unless they’re Scottish, French or German) if England win the Euro’s I’ll be buzzing all the same
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you explain...
I don't get patriotism at all
and
If England win the Euros I'll be buzzing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I’ll be buzzing if England win because I’ve watched them fail all my life and they’re my local international side
But I don’t care for royalty, flags, historical naval battles etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's why I think this England team has the potential to be quite culturally important, because it offers a new definition of patriotism. Hardly anyone in the country right now will stick their head above the parapet and claim they aren't patriotic, or they're anti-English, because we're having a moment as close to universal shared joyful experience as is possible in these atomised times. It's a living illustration that pride in England can be embodied in a group of talented, humble (multi-racial) lads, who see no contradiction between their pride in their love for their country and their stances against racism or homophobia or child poverty. In fact, it's part of the same continuum: you love your country, so of course you want to protect it from the scourge of racism. There's a continuum between the generosity of spirit you see in their progressive gestures and the generosity you see in the way they interact with random kids (e.g. Mason Mount going into the Wembley crowd to give his shirt to a little girl or Rashford's kindness on social media).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I like the way quite a lot of them handle themselves, they seem quite grounded people, and it’s easy to relate to people like that compared to the privileged few who I have absolutely nothing in common with who people want to reign over us
posted on 9/7/21
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 11 minutes ago
A good article by Gareth too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really is isn't it? My only slight quibble is that he mentions 'island' in there. England isn't an island. I know it's probably not deliberate on his part but many people see England = UK/GB which does grate a bit. There's always that grey area when the news talk about 'nation' or 'country' on the BBC/ITV news. Where exactly are they talking about?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i would hazard a guess that the BBC/ITV are talking about the United Kingdom.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On the contrary, I don't think they know what they are talking about and are lazy. Covid has brought it into focus and because it dominates the news just now there is huge awareness that the 4 regions are different.
However, in most other matters assumptions are made like articles about the school holidays starting when Scotland and NI will have started weeks previous or an article about an injunction preventing publication of a story when they've forgotten to issue one in Scotland so we've all seen it.
TBH most of us just chuckle or roll our eyes and groan about the EBC but it would be pretty monotonous if they were constantly qualifying their stories for each region. On the other hand, the assumption is it is English unless otherwise stated and that grates a bit. Oh and the fact the beeb only spend 65p for every pound collected from Scotland. Not sure the numbers for the other regions.
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 11 minutes ago
A good article by Gareth too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really is isn't it? My only slight quibble is that he mentions 'island' in there. England isn't an island. I know it's probably not deliberate on his part but many people see England = UK/GB which does grate a bit. There's always that grey area when the news talk about 'nation' or 'country' on the BBC/ITV news. Where exactly are they talking about?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i would hazard a guess that the BBC/ITV are talking about the United Kingdom.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it happens that when "national" media (based in London) talks about specifically English things, they sometimes slip and talk about "the country". It requires extra words to specify that it's the English part of the country, and restricts the number of pronouns or synonyms you can use for the sake of linguistic efficiency and variety, so from an editorial point of view I can understand the driver for this. But I get how irritating it must be for Scottish and Welsh audiences, and also how this feeds into a sense of being governed by an foreign land - when your national media regularly acts as though you don't exist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for explaining that so well.
I know it may seem trivial but it is a bit of a bug bear of mine. My job at times requires me to answer people's questions about Covid rules for businesses. When I get them the right info for Wales I'm sometimes met with 'But that's not what we saw in the news'.
posted on 9/7/21
Under devolution Scotland Wales and NI have their own autonomy from the UK parliament in areas such as health which includes Covid restrictions.
England Wales and Scotland also have always had their own Football Associations and so as trivial as it might seem as a Scot you are not 'obliged under patriotic law to support England or Wales and there same goes visa versa. However as we are a United Kingdom without controlled borders many Scots and Welsh live in England and visa versa, so if you are English living in Scotland or Wales and England win, you are entitled to celebrate that in any part of the UK. Hence why celebrations are talking place all over the country (Ie The UK).
posted on 9/7/21
rejecting europe only to open up to the world
posted on 9/7/21
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
posted on 9/7/21
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
posted on 9/7/21
OK, finally had time to read the OP and link.
People will always support the familiar. They will root for people from their country, town or neighbourhood. The problem comes when people take these things as a source of pride thinking they are better than others.
There seems to have been a shift away from political patriotism which glorifies the establishment to a more community form.
I, myself, root for the England team, but have no interest in all that establishment patriotism.
posted on 10/7/21
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you have to wonder whether those countries wanted to host during the pandemic and whether they or UEFA believed they were capable
England has risked it, so far most of England's risks during the pandemic have been pretty catastrophic
posted on 10/7/21
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you have to wonder whether those countries wanted to host during the pandemic and whether they or UEFA believed they were capable
England has risked it, so far most of England's risks during the pandemic have been pretty catastrophic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The decision was made in 2014, a long time before any pandemic.
posted on 10/7/21
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you have to wonder whether those countries wanted to host during the pandemic and whether they or UEFA believed they were capable
England has risked it, so far most of England's risks during the pandemic have been pretty catastrophic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The decision was made in 2014, a long time before any pandemic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You sure? Thought several changes were made/decided this year
posted on 10/7/21
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you have to wonder whether those countries wanted to host during the pandemic and whether they or UEFA believed they were capable
England has risked it, so far most of England's risks during the pandemic have been pretty catastrophic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The decision was made in 2014, a long time before any pandemic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You sure? Thought several changes were made/decided this year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From Wiki
The final list of bids was published by UEFA on 26 April 2014, with a decision on the hosts being made by the UEFA Executive Committee on 19 September 2014.
-----------
Turkey bid for the tournament but looks like they were not even given a sniff
posted on 10/7/21
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----FIGHT THE FIX----*England Euro 2020 champs(*denotes heavy fixing) (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sharteta (U19684)
posted 12 minutes ago
Great article and thanks for linking the Southgate's letter to the nation.
The negative is that it's painful and predictable to see the likes of Johnson and JRM appropriate the football team while sowing so much division into the country in general.
Sadly I guess that too is part of "Englishness"
There's always been the men who stood on the front lines and sacrificed themselves, ready to face defeat if it comes to it. While their "betters" were safe, far away and ready to take all the glory should things work out well (or to retire off back to their over privileged lives, shirking all responsibility if it doesn't).
As Southgate says, at least these players are using their own unique platform to balance out those scales as had never been possible before. Doing so often against huge pressure and backlash but making real change. It shouldn't be on them but thank fack we have people like that using their influence for good for a change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair the people behind the scenes deserve a large portion of the credit for this one give England had no business even being in the conversation to host business end of the competition games. People underestimate how much goes on behind the scenes which is surprising given what we saw with Qatar in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully there wasn't the level of bribery that we saw with Qatar!
From what I've read Wembley is hosting so many games as it has the largest capacity of all the stadiums that entered the process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's a coincidence that England got the finals just after leaving Europe. Germany were in the running then stepped down after some agreements to host the next tournament. Not sure who else was involved.
No doubt loads will jump on my comments but it hardly takes much to step back and just look at the situation and wonder how England have basically had two tournaments in 24 years while Spain haven't had one since 1964, Italy since 1980 and Germany since 1988.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you have to wonder whether those countries wanted to host during the pandemic and whether they or UEFA believed they were capable
England has risked it, so far most of England's risks during the pandemic have been pretty catastrophic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The decision was made in 2014, a long time before any pandemic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You sure? Thought several changes were made/decided this year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From Wiki
The final list of bids was published by UEFA on 26 April 2014, with a decision on the hosts being made by the UEFA Executive Committee on 19 September 2014.
-----------
Turkey bid for the tournament but looks like they were not even given a sniff
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I saw that regarding Turkey
From the Wikipedia it mentions only England and Germany bid for the finals package. I read elsewhere that Germany conceded it as they'll be hosting 2024.
Those changes regarding Covid were pretty minor looking into it further. A few stadiums changed and Dublin pulling out as they couldn't guarantee spectators being allowed into stadiums
posted on 10/7/21
Good article OP
Those booing the taking of the knee are proper snowflakes, they are hiding behind the nonsense that they don`t like the Marxist propaganda behind the act of going on one knee. What a load of nonsense, they are booing because they are closet racists, simple as that.
The nonsense that Jason Pickford, and the rest of the team are supporting Marxism is very amusing. Talk about brainwashing the masses.
posted on 10/7/21
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 17 hours, 20 minutes ago
I'm not particularly patriotic (find it a strange concept personally) but this England squad seem like a nice group of lads who are really enjoying themselves and Southgate can take a lot of credit for creating that environment. It's great that there's a wide range of ethnic diversity too which really is positive and something football does brilliantly at.
Anyone who has an issue with the players tacking the knee can f-ck off, as can all the tories and their gesture politics during the Euros, especailly Priti Patel the c-nt.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 10/7/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/7/21
But I’ve never really had that extreme tribalism either. Like I support United because my Dad told me to when I was 8 and it gives you a way to enjoy the sport more when you have a team to follow but when it comes to stuff like Gerrard v Lampard v Scholes or defending poor decisions that went my teams way I don’t really, unless I’m just messing around. I find it really odd when you see a group of fans argue with someone who supports someone else simply because of that reason, it’s weird. I live in London, most my friends support other teams and we usually go to the pub together and watch whatever game is on and wind each other up a little but it’s all harmless fun. When people claim fans from other clubs are bad and then I think about how many morons there are on this forum alone that support United.
Patriotism doesn’t have to be negative like you say but if often allows for negatively towards others to manifest. If you want to be proud of things your country has done then you also at least have to be aware of the terrible things too. I’ll support England tomorrow like I have all Euros because it’s a great way to be with friends and family and enjoy a culturally significant event, not because I’m patriotic or proud to be English.
posted on 10/7/21
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 17 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diavolo Rosso 77 (U2462)
posted 28 minutes ago
MU52 I don't mean this in a bad way but how would you think you moving to France differs to the Pakistani family moving into your community.
It's an interesting subject for me as I don't really care where people are from as long as they respect the local culture and are decent people. Like I'm certain you are from your posts on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's different in as much as I speak French, had already worked over here, and we have a lot in common, football for a starter. Also my other half is French.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought that was the case MU52.
I was just confused when you wrote 'Further more despite living in France for over eleven years, I shout for England, never France, and feel English with no part of me French.' because that didn't sound much like what you've previously described before of your wonderful life there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does what he says go against him having a wonderful life?
If we go live on Mars, we would still be Earthlings, right, with no part of us Martian and never cheering for the Martian Spaceball team?
posted on 10/7/21
comment by GunaDave (U7710)
posted 17 hours, 48 minutes ago
Wow Red.
Well reasoned and not much any sensible, decent person could have issue with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a challenge...
posted on 10/7/21
comment by Just Shoot - C'mon England!! 🏴 (U10408)
posted 55 minutes ago
A few on here saying they don't understand patriotism/find it strange/aren't that patriotic. Tbh, I find that odd as patriotism is just a form of tribalism which is rampant through football. The penalty decision your team gets that you defend, the fouls, the players you admire in your team - it's all from the same psychological sphere as patriotism. Gerrard Vs Lampard Vs Scholes. My guess is who you think is better differed from if you're Liverpool, Chelsea or United. It's just a localised form of patriotism.
It's a natural state in humans and to be without any form of tribalism is very isolating and anti-human.
Of course patriotism is on a sliding scale ranging from just the football team to others more extreme forms of believing your country can do no wrong.
As a final thought, patriotism doesn't have to be negative or disrespectful towards others. Understand it for what it is, in its beauty it's a bonding tool, in its vulgarity it is a decisive tool.
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Patriotism in a way is a form of discrimination. You are preferring a person/group of people, to another, based on a specific characteristic.
Which for me is absolutely fine. Absolutely fine, indeed. And I’d urge anyone who disagrees with this to consider if they would favour someone because of a certain characteristic, in another scenario, say for example you have a choice of saving either your own offspring from a burning building, or a random stranger.
In the end, we all discriminate, in favour of the people we love. So let’s all take our “I love everybody equally” hats off, because it’s hardly ever (maybe never?) the case we have zero levels of indiscrimination in any decision.
Good article though and well thought out.
posted on 10/7/21
Discrimination*
One thing I did find very surprising, I’m normallly out smoking just before a game so rarely see the kick offs, was how many teams didn’t take the knee.
Surprised by the Dutch, French and even Scotland, not always partaking.
posted on 10/7/21
And Hungary and Poland, I thought they’d have double kneed
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