comment by Kroenke_out (U21076)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 3 minutes ago
Yeah I’m not sure the Bosman ruling was made so that the richest club on the planet could get 5 top players for free in one summer by paying astronomical wages.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but it's where football is heading with transfer fees being so astronomical these days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I briefly thought covid will offer football an opportunity to correct the market as clubs reflect and decided to live within there financial means.
Sadly, it looks like that won't happen. The nature of greed in football will just evolve. I expect to see more clubs and agents incentivise players to run down their contract with the promise of a bigger wages
comment by Kroenke_out (U21076)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 3 minutes ago
Yeah I’m not sure the Bosman ruling was made so that the richest club on the planet could get 5 top players for free in one summer by paying astronomical wages.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but it's where football is heading with transfer fees being so astronomical these days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can almost see a short contract being an incentive for the top players now rather than a long one, look at how Harry Kane painted himself into a corner
We don't need to sell him this summer. He makes us £90m a year in shirt sales so keeping him for another year would make us a profit compared to selling him for £60m this year.
comment by Paul McGinn (U1734)
posted 5 seconds ago
We don't need to sell him this summer. He makes us £90m a year in shirt sales so keeping him for another year would make us a profit compared to selling him for £60m this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shirt gag
Makes his flop all the harder if you recoup nothing.
comment by Barf Vader (U15867)
posted 51 seconds ago
Barca's current wages to turnover % is 103%. Madness. Then you think about PSG currently. Wonder what theirs is? Not sure about their income compared to Barca, but their wage bill must have gone through the roof this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I actually started to create an article on the wage problem but never posted. Football is literally on a brink because of greedy players and agents.
We all like these players but too many people have adopted the whatever cost mentality when it comes to signing and keeping players. The current alternative is to end up like Arsenal. I personally feel the current football model is broken and something needs to be done.
I have friends in spain and italy moaning about the financial situation. While the EPL is on financial sterods thanks to marketing, is it always going to be sustainable? And even is so shouldn't this money better spent than on enriching already wealthy greedy footballers and agents?
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 3 minutes ago
Why aren’t we talking about mid level players too, I’m talking about all players. I’m saying most players will look at the quality of a league as a factor in their decision to move. There are other factors too but that is a key one.
Wijnaldum choose PSG over Barca because Barca are a complete mess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what leagues are you talking about?
I think majority of players playing for Everton, Leicester, Arsenal, Spurs (take you’re British players out) would move to a top side in Italy, Spain, France rather than play for those clubs.
Simple fact is there are fewer top clubs in those leagues and fewer clubs that can pay them the money they get here.
So it comes down to the money first then what club their playing for and what their winning!
Wijnaldum choose PSG over Barca because Barca are a complete mess.
Exactly my point, he went there because they could and offered to pay him more Money, if quality of league mattered or his burning desire to play for Barca mattered he’d have taken less money but he didn’t.
The true extent of Barca’s troubles hadn’t come out yet, the likes of Aguero, Depay still agreed to go after Wijnaldum had settled on PSG.
If he doesn't want to go this Summer, we can't just sell him. He seems to be prepared to wait and see how we do. Real and PSG are likely both happy to wait until next year, if they have some indication he wants the move, it makes sense for them both to hang fire and get him on a free.
If he wants to stay and assess his options in 6 months then there is very little we can do to force it.
comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 9 minutes ago
If he doesn't want to go this Summer, we can't just sell him. He seems to be prepared to wait and see how we do. Real and PSG are likely both happy to wait until next year, if they have some indication he wants the move, it makes sense for them both to hang fire and get him on a free.
If he wants to stay and assess his options in 6 months then there is very little we can do to force it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this
while I like him, I hate the idea of a player having that much power over utd or any other club tbh. For this reason I woud rather sell him but even that is impossible if buying club are prepared to wait and get him for free
Players should always be the one with the power as they are the reason we watch the game. From all accounts we refused to sell Pogba a couple of seasons ago when he first wanted out so he’s well within his rights to hold on and go for free. I certainly don’t have a desire for the Glazers to get richer off the back of forcing Pogba out for a fee this year. Of course it would be mildly embarrassing seeing him go for free again (first time was basically free) but I’ll live.
comment by Robb - McFan #1 (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
From all accounts we refused to sell Pogba a couple of seasons ago when he first wanted out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
quite, though i imagine this will be ignored by the "he's doing us over, again" crowd.
from what i remember there was serious interest in him that summer, but we put a "f@ck off, he's not for sale" price tag on his head - £150-180m - which unsurprisingly deterred suitors.
the club has no one to blame for this but itself - see also the ddg contract, herrera leaving on a free, and many others.
comment by Robb - McFan #1 (U22311)
posted 2 minutes ago
Players should always be the one with the power as they are the reason we watch the game. From all accounts we refused to sell Pogba a couple of seasons ago when he first wanted out so he’s well within his rights to hold on and go for free. I certainly don’t have a desire for the Glazers to get richer off the back of forcing Pogba out for a fee this year. Of course it would be mildly embarrassing seeing him go for free again (first time was basically free) but I’ll live.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I share your sentiment about rather the player having the money than the glazers. I am of the opinion that when a player starts acting up like pogba wanting to leave you need to get rid asap unless he can prove his comittment by sign a contract extension. Otherwise you end up with player and agents holding clubs to ransom.
KLS
A mid table club in the PL will be a greater pull than the vast majority of clubs anywhere else (bar the top 2-3 clubs in the main leagues). Largely due to wages but also because of the quality of the league, I’m not debating that money isn’t a key factor if not the main but you seem to be dismissing the quality of the PL as a factor into why player will choose to play there.
The PL had the best quality of any league, largely because good players are willing to move to lesser sides in the league, much like Serie A is the 80s and 90s. Players like James, Tielemans, Son, Aubameyang move to the PL because of good wages but also because of the quality of the PL.
my question to robb (and anyone else that cares) is do you think player power has gone to far. Cause I do. Not because we are losing pogba but because it has facilated a level of greed that is unsustainable to any club operating under economic reality.
Barca found this out the hard way as they tried to hold on to messi meeting is wage demands or risk losing him to financially doped club. Is this a good thing in your opinion as a football fan?
I would be mildly curious as to what thew p&l of Pogba has been for the club
80m in fees, plus wages, minus commercial receipts
does intrigue me somewhat
He can leave with my blessing next summer after we win the league and champs league this season
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 11 seconds ago
my question to robb (and anyone else that cares) is do you think player power has gone to far. Cause I do. Not because we are losing pogba but because it has facilated a level of greed that is unsustainable to any club operating under economic reality.
Barca found this out the hard way as they tried to hold on to messi meeting is wage demands or risk losing him to financially doped club. Is this a good thing in your opinion as a football fan?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hard to say. Again, from all accounts Barca could have sold Messi for £100 million last year to City but said no and they also spent loads on Dembele, Griezmann et al in recent years.
Sometimes - well, a lot of the time the clubs do it to themselves. A possible solution could be shorter contracts and a more realistic expectation that some players will leave at the end of those short contracts. Might even bring transfer fees down.
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 3 minutes ago
He can leave with my blessing next summer after we win the league and champs league this season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can buy him back from PSG in a couple of years anyway
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 5 minutes ago
KLS
A mid table club in the PL will be a greater pull than the vast majority of clubs anywhere else (bar the top 2-3 clubs in the main leagues). Largely due to wages but also because of the quality of the league, I’m not debating that money isn’t a key factor if not the main but you seem to be dismissing the quality of the PL as a factor into why player will choose to play there.
The PL had the best quality of any league, largely because good players are willing to move to lesser sides in the league, much like Serie A is the 80s and 90s. Players like James, Tielemans, Son, Aubameyang move to the PL because of good wages but also because of the quality of the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I havnt dismissed the quality of the premier league at all, I’ve simply said that most players will be motivated by money, trophies and champions league football more than the quality of the league they’re playing in.
“Players like James, Tielemans, Son, Aubameyang move to the PL because of good wages but also because of the quality of the PL.“
They moved for the money.
comment by Robb - McFan #1 (U22311)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 11 seconds ago
my question to robb (and anyone else that cares) is do you think player power has gone to far. Cause I do. Not because we are losing pogba but because it has facilated a level of greed that is unsustainable to any club operating under economic reality.
Barca found this out the hard way as they tried to hold on to messi meeting is wage demands or risk losing him to financially doped club. Is this a good thing in your opinion as a football fan?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hard to say. Again, from all accounts Barca could have sold Messi for £100 million last year to City but said no and they also spent loads on Dembele, Griezmann et al in recent years.
Sometimes - well, a lot of the time the clubs do it to themselves. A possible solution could be shorter contracts and a more realistic expectation that some players will leave at the end of those short contracts. Might even bring transfer fees down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for responding. I also have the opinion that clubs need to get their money at the soonest opportunity if the have an unhappy player on their books.
No player is bigger than a club is my belief.
But it is a fine line to sell your best players and not become a selling club
The funny thing is many football fans will quickly compromise this/their values to sign or keep a top player. I see it all the time. Almost every fan will be happy to sign Haaland despite the drama that will inevitably come with him
Yes they probably did move for the money, but they also probably moved here more for the quality of the PL than to win trophies or compete in the CL.
comment by KLS (U1695)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 5 minutes ago
KLS
A mid table club in the PL will be a greater pull than the vast majority of clubs anywhere else (bar the top 2-3 clubs in the main leagues). Largely due to wages but also because of the quality of the league, I’m not debating that money isn’t a key factor if not the main but you seem to be dismissing the quality of the PL as a factor into why player will choose to play there.
The PL had the best quality of any league, largely because good players are willing to move to lesser sides in the league, much like Serie A is the 80s and 90s. Players like James, Tielemans, Son, Aubameyang move to the PL because of good wages but also because of the quality of the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I havnt dismissed the quality of the premier league at all, I’ve simply said that most players will be motivated by money, trophies and champions league football more than the quality of the league they’re playing in.
“Players like James, Tielemans, Son, Aubameyang move to the PL because of good wages but also because of the quality of the PL.“
They moved for the money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a circular argument anyway, as the PL (I suspect) offers the highest wages for mid-level players and teams, probably far more than they'd get anywhere outside the few elite clubs in Europe. They'll always want a move here. The standard of the league's almost certainly irrelevant to them.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 8 seconds ago
Yes they probably did move for the money, but they also probably moved here more for the quality of the PL than to win trophies or compete in the CL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think us fans delude ourselves thinking players move to england because of the quality of the EPL. The move because of money first, then because it can provide them with a platform to showcase their talent because it has the biggest audiences in stadium and on tv
If all things are equal will a sane football want to come to the EPL and play in a tougher league where the likelihood of their talent shinning is less likely?
The problem with player power I'd twofold imo.
The first being that the richest clubs will win just about everything, as they will have the pull of money and success. It's why players want Real if they're good enough.
Second is the cost of watching football.
Sign in if you want to comment
Pogba to leave for free
Page 2 of 4
posted on 17/8/21
comment by Kroenke_out (U21076)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 3 minutes ago
Yeah I’m not sure the Bosman ruling was made so that the richest club on the planet could get 5 top players for free in one summer by paying astronomical wages.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but it's where football is heading with transfer fees being so astronomical these days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I briefly thought covid will offer football an opportunity to correct the market as clubs reflect and decided to live within there financial means.
Sadly, it looks like that won't happen. The nature of greed in football will just evolve. I expect to see more clubs and agents incentivise players to run down their contract with the promise of a bigger wages
posted on 17/8/21
comment by Kroenke_out (U21076)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 3 minutes ago
Yeah I’m not sure the Bosman ruling was made so that the richest club on the planet could get 5 top players for free in one summer by paying astronomical wages.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but it's where football is heading with transfer fees being so astronomical these days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can almost see a short contract being an incentive for the top players now rather than a long one, look at how Harry Kane painted himself into a corner
posted on 17/8/21
We don't need to sell him this summer. He makes us £90m a year in shirt sales so keeping him for another year would make us a profit compared to selling him for £60m this year.
posted on 17/8/21
comment by Paul McGinn (U1734)
posted 5 seconds ago
We don't need to sell him this summer. He makes us £90m a year in shirt sales so keeping him for another year would make us a profit compared to selling him for £60m this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shirt gag
posted on 17/8/21
Makes his flop all the harder if you recoup nothing.
posted on 17/8/21
comment by Barf Vader (U15867)
posted 51 seconds ago
Barca's current wages to turnover % is 103%. Madness. Then you think about PSG currently. Wonder what theirs is? Not sure about their income compared to Barca, but their wage bill must have gone through the roof this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I actually started to create an article on the wage problem but never posted. Football is literally on a brink because of greedy players and agents.
We all like these players but too many people have adopted the whatever cost mentality when it comes to signing and keeping players. The current alternative is to end up like Arsenal. I personally feel the current football model is broken and something needs to be done.
I have friends in spain and italy moaning about the financial situation. While the EPL is on financial sterods thanks to marketing, is it always going to be sustainable? And even is so shouldn't this money better spent than on enriching already wealthy greedy footballers and agents?
posted on 17/8/21
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 3 minutes ago
Why aren’t we talking about mid level players too, I’m talking about all players. I’m saying most players will look at the quality of a league as a factor in their decision to move. There are other factors too but that is a key one.
Wijnaldum choose PSG over Barca because Barca are a complete mess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what leagues are you talking about?
I think majority of players playing for Everton, Leicester, Arsenal, Spurs (take you’re British players out) would move to a top side in Italy, Spain, France rather than play for those clubs.
Simple fact is there are fewer top clubs in those leagues and fewer clubs that can pay them the money they get here.
So it comes down to the money first then what club their playing for and what their winning!
posted on 17/8/21
Wijnaldum choose PSG over Barca because Barca are a complete mess.
Exactly my point, he went there because they could and offered to pay him more Money, if quality of league mattered or his burning desire to play for Barca mattered he’d have taken less money but he didn’t.
The true extent of Barca’s troubles hadn’t come out yet, the likes of Aguero, Depay still agreed to go after Wijnaldum had settled on PSG.
posted on 17/8/21
If he doesn't want to go this Summer, we can't just sell him. He seems to be prepared to wait and see how we do. Real and PSG are likely both happy to wait until next year, if they have some indication he wants the move, it makes sense for them both to hang fire and get him on a free.
If he wants to stay and assess his options in 6 months then there is very little we can do to force it.
posted on 17/8/21
comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 9 minutes ago
If he doesn't want to go this Summer, we can't just sell him. He seems to be prepared to wait and see how we do. Real and PSG are likely both happy to wait until next year, if they have some indication he wants the move, it makes sense for them both to hang fire and get him on a free.
If he wants to stay and assess his options in 6 months then there is very little we can do to force it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this
while I like him, I hate the idea of a player having that much power over utd or any other club tbh. For this reason I woud rather sell him but even that is impossible if buying club are prepared to wait and get him for free
posted on 17/8/21
Players should always be the one with the power as they are the reason we watch the game. From all accounts we refused to sell Pogba a couple of seasons ago when he first wanted out so he’s well within his rights to hold on and go for free. I certainly don’t have a desire for the Glazers to get richer off the back of forcing Pogba out for a fee this year. Of course it would be mildly embarrassing seeing him go for free again (first time was basically free) but I’ll live.
posted on 17/8/21
comment by Robb - McFan #1 (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
From all accounts we refused to sell Pogba a couple of seasons ago when he first wanted out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
quite, though i imagine this will be ignored by the "he's doing us over, again" crowd.
from what i remember there was serious interest in him that summer, but we put a "f@ck off, he's not for sale" price tag on his head - £150-180m - which unsurprisingly deterred suitors.
the club has no one to blame for this but itself - see also the ddg contract, herrera leaving on a free, and many others.
posted on 17/8/21
comment by Robb - McFan #1 (U22311)
posted 2 minutes ago
Players should always be the one with the power as they are the reason we watch the game. From all accounts we refused to sell Pogba a couple of seasons ago when he first wanted out so he’s well within his rights to hold on and go for free. I certainly don’t have a desire for the Glazers to get richer off the back of forcing Pogba out for a fee this year. Of course it would be mildly embarrassing seeing him go for free again (first time was basically free) but I’ll live.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I share your sentiment about rather the player having the money than the glazers. I am of the opinion that when a player starts acting up like pogba wanting to leave you need to get rid asap unless he can prove his comittment by sign a contract extension. Otherwise you end up with player and agents holding clubs to ransom.
posted on 17/8/21
KLS
A mid table club in the PL will be a greater pull than the vast majority of clubs anywhere else (bar the top 2-3 clubs in the main leagues). Largely due to wages but also because of the quality of the league, I’m not debating that money isn’t a key factor if not the main but you seem to be dismissing the quality of the PL as a factor into why player will choose to play there.
The PL had the best quality of any league, largely because good players are willing to move to lesser sides in the league, much like Serie A is the 80s and 90s. Players like James, Tielemans, Son, Aubameyang move to the PL because of good wages but also because of the quality of the PL.
posted on 17/8/21
my question to robb (and anyone else that cares) is do you think player power has gone to far. Cause I do. Not because we are losing pogba but because it has facilated a level of greed that is unsustainable to any club operating under economic reality.
Barca found this out the hard way as they tried to hold on to messi meeting is wage demands or risk losing him to financially doped club. Is this a good thing in your opinion as a football fan?
posted on 17/8/21
I would be mildly curious as to what thew p&l of Pogba has been for the club
80m in fees, plus wages, minus commercial receipts
does intrigue me somewhat
posted on 17/8/21
He can leave with my blessing next summer after we win the league and champs league this season
posted on 17/8/21
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 11 seconds ago
my question to robb (and anyone else that cares) is do you think player power has gone to far. Cause I do. Not because we are losing pogba but because it has facilated a level of greed that is unsustainable to any club operating under economic reality.
Barca found this out the hard way as they tried to hold on to messi meeting is wage demands or risk losing him to financially doped club. Is this a good thing in your opinion as a football fan?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hard to say. Again, from all accounts Barca could have sold Messi for £100 million last year to City but said no and they also spent loads on Dembele, Griezmann et al in recent years.
Sometimes - well, a lot of the time the clubs do it to themselves. A possible solution could be shorter contracts and a more realistic expectation that some players will leave at the end of those short contracts. Might even bring transfer fees down.
posted on 17/8/21
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 3 minutes ago
He can leave with my blessing next summer after we win the league and champs league this season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can buy him back from PSG in a couple of years anyway
posted on 17/8/21
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 5 minutes ago
KLS
A mid table club in the PL will be a greater pull than the vast majority of clubs anywhere else (bar the top 2-3 clubs in the main leagues). Largely due to wages but also because of the quality of the league, I’m not debating that money isn’t a key factor if not the main but you seem to be dismissing the quality of the PL as a factor into why player will choose to play there.
The PL had the best quality of any league, largely because good players are willing to move to lesser sides in the league, much like Serie A is the 80s and 90s. Players like James, Tielemans, Son, Aubameyang move to the PL because of good wages but also because of the quality of the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I havnt dismissed the quality of the premier league at all, I’ve simply said that most players will be motivated by money, trophies and champions league football more than the quality of the league they’re playing in.
“Players like James, Tielemans, Son, Aubameyang move to the PL because of good wages but also because of the quality of the PL.“
They moved for the money.
posted on 17/8/21
comment by Robb - McFan #1 (U22311)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Garner be a star (U13920)
posted 11 seconds ago
my question to robb (and anyone else that cares) is do you think player power has gone to far. Cause I do. Not because we are losing pogba but because it has facilated a level of greed that is unsustainable to any club operating under economic reality.
Barca found this out the hard way as they tried to hold on to messi meeting is wage demands or risk losing him to financially doped club. Is this a good thing in your opinion as a football fan?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hard to say. Again, from all accounts Barca could have sold Messi for £100 million last year to City but said no and they also spent loads on Dembele, Griezmann et al in recent years.
Sometimes - well, a lot of the time the clubs do it to themselves. A possible solution could be shorter contracts and a more realistic expectation that some players will leave at the end of those short contracts. Might even bring transfer fees down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for responding. I also have the opinion that clubs need to get their money at the soonest opportunity if the have an unhappy player on their books.
No player is bigger than a club is my belief.
But it is a fine line to sell your best players and not become a selling club
The funny thing is many football fans will quickly compromise this/their values to sign or keep a top player. I see it all the time. Almost every fan will be happy to sign Haaland despite the drama that will inevitably come with him
posted on 17/8/21
Yes they probably did move for the money, but they also probably moved here more for the quality of the PL than to win trophies or compete in the CL.
posted on 17/8/21
comment by KLS (U1695)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 5 minutes ago
KLS
A mid table club in the PL will be a greater pull than the vast majority of clubs anywhere else (bar the top 2-3 clubs in the main leagues). Largely due to wages but also because of the quality of the league, I’m not debating that money isn’t a key factor if not the main but you seem to be dismissing the quality of the PL as a factor into why player will choose to play there.
The PL had the best quality of any league, largely because good players are willing to move to lesser sides in the league, much like Serie A is the 80s and 90s. Players like James, Tielemans, Son, Aubameyang move to the PL because of good wages but also because of the quality of the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I havnt dismissed the quality of the premier league at all, I’ve simply said that most players will be motivated by money, trophies and champions league football more than the quality of the league they’re playing in.
“Players like James, Tielemans, Son, Aubameyang move to the PL because of good wages but also because of the quality of the PL.“
They moved for the money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a circular argument anyway, as the PL (I suspect) offers the highest wages for mid-level players and teams, probably far more than they'd get anywhere outside the few elite clubs in Europe. They'll always want a move here. The standard of the league's almost certainly irrelevant to them.
posted on 17/8/21
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 8 seconds ago
Yes they probably did move for the money, but they also probably moved here more for the quality of the PL than to win trophies or compete in the CL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think us fans delude ourselves thinking players move to england because of the quality of the EPL. The move because of money first, then because it can provide them with a platform to showcase their talent because it has the biggest audiences in stadium and on tv
If all things are equal will a sane football want to come to the EPL and play in a tougher league where the likelihood of their talent shinning is less likely?
posted on 17/8/21
The problem with player power I'd twofold imo.
The first being that the richest clubs will win just about everything, as they will have the pull of money and success. It's why players want Real if they're good enough.
Second is the cost of watching football.
Page 2 of 4