Clockwork, yep and that’s where I think he’s been misused. He’s not been given enough opportunities in a squad role capacity. Plus there’s been times where he should have been giving longer as a sub, not five minutes.
I just don’t agree with this idea he should just be given a run of games. If Ole does the former, the latter may follow if he justifies it with his performances. McTominay and Fred actually had to do just that. They weren’t gifted a run of games, they worked their way in by performing when called upon.
Granted, the time at which they did was a bit easier to get games, but it is what it is.
His interview on Rio's channel is worth a watch. Howson specifically asks him about his game time. Interesting watch and confirms my thoughts that he seems like a really nice lad, very down to earth.
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 8 minutes ago
It kind of is an issue when that’s his direct competition for a place in the team.
I think he’s struggled to adapt, clearly. It isn’t uncommon, Holland produces plenty of players who do well in the national league and side.
Here is Van Bastens assessment of the situation:
“It just wasn’t smart choices. If you say you spoke to Real Madrid and then you go to Manchester United, you are betting way too high," Van Basten is quoted by Voetbal Zone.
“Van de Beek is not that good. As number 10 at Ajax it is much easier than as number 10 in Spain or England. In the Netherlands you get a lot of help, you get opportunities, but that is not the case abroad.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say it's on Ole and the backers pulling the strings. Kid cost a chunk of cash so to not play him suggests he's a bad match and wasn't needed. That's gotta be on whoever said he'd be a good fit. As others have said, it's not like united haven't played people that aren't amazing. Can't tell me matic and Fred get games and he can't get some game time at his age, and with his fee?
Is he that bad he can't play to even try and protect his resale value? Surely not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe Ole, maybe the scouts, maybe the agent, maybe Ed, maybe a mixture of the above, who knows?
What we do know, is if you perform, Ole will generally continue to play you.
last season he actually made 7 appearances when he played the full 90 minutes, and a further 11 when he played 45 minutes or more.
so 18 reasonably full appearances isn't quite the "5 minutes here, 10 minutes there" idea that some people seem to have...to be honest it's the idea i had before looking up the numbers, presumably because he hasn't really made a huge impression when he has played.
i'd be interested to know what he was told before joining - just as i'd be interested to know what we told pogba before playing him in a midfield two with fellaini in his first few matches - but from the outside this doesn't look great.
given how we didn't sign sancho last summer, but then splashed £30m on two kids as second prize, it is tempting to conclude that we weren't really targeting donny, but couldn't do our proper business, so just picked him up when his madrid move fell through.
comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 28 minutes ago
His interview on Rio's channel is worth a watch. Howson specifically asks him about his game time. Interesting watch and confirms my thoughts that he seems like a really nice lad, very down to earth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And nothing in it what so ever that suggests he feels he has been humiliated by the manager. No idea what that poster was imagining.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 28 minutes ago
His interview on Rio's channel is worth a watch. Howson specifically asks him about his game time. Interesting watch and confirms my thoughts that he seems like a really nice lad, very down to earth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And nothing in it what so ever that suggests he feels he has been humiliated by the manager. No idea what that poster was imagining.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah he came across well and very much like he 'gets it', so far at least. This idea some people have built up that Donny is some poor hostage who is being treated terribly is getting a bit silly. He's worked hard, filled out and I assume he understands the league much better than 12 months ago. I expect he'll get more minutes, he's a young lad who came in from a very different league. Throwing him in for 5 games if you suspect he'll really struggle would be very poor management and could have flipped the fan opinion completely round. He's likely trying to protect him rather than hurt him.
Ole has done enough to suggest I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in how he is managing him, it's one of the things he's shown he's good at.
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 36 minutes ago
McTominay and Fred actually had to do just that. They weren’t gifted a run of games, they worked their way in by performing when called upon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure they were. When Fred was given a run for the first time, he was woeful at first. But Ole stuck with him, and he built some rhythm and became less woeful.
Fox
Indeed. We do have some myth creators and spreaders on this site. Another is that Pogba was toxic in the dressing room where it actually appears that he is the exact opposite.
Never got that about Pogba either. That's people who get their opinion from people on forums, who get their opinion from pundits, who are employed to stoke the flames and role people up a bit. Everything I've seen from him and heard from him as well as anybody who interacts with him is always positive.
He likely suffers from the fact that as a young lad he enjoys a bit of silliness, dancing and messing about with his hair. Because that's a sure fire way to judge someone's character.
No they weren’t. They had to play as squad players before getting regular game time. Fred had a poor first season (still had more of an impact than Donny) then took his chance under Ole when Pogba got injured. McTominay was a reliable squad player that forced his way into starting games by taking those chances afforded to him. Donny hasn’t done any of this.
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
No they weren’t. They had to play as squad players before getting regular game time. Fred had a poor first season (still had more of an impact than Donny) then took his chance under Ole when Pogba got injured. McTominay was a reliable squad player that forced his way into starting games by taking those chances afforded to him. Donny hasn’t done any of this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, my memory is that Fred was out of the picture at the start of the 19-20 season and injuries meant he got a run in the team. Was terrible at the start of that run as well
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
No they weren’t. They had to play as squad players before getting regular game time. Fred had a poor first season (still had more of an impact than Donny) then took his chance under Ole when Pogba got injured. McTominay was a reliable squad player that forced his way into starting games by taking those chances afforded to him. Donny hasn’t done any of this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, my memory is that Fred was out of the picture at the start of the 19-20 season and injuries meant he got a run in the team. Was terrible at the start of that run as well
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
McT took his chance under Jose. Fred in his first few games under Ole wasn't good. Carrick even said how they were having to work on his mentality during this time.
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
No they weren’t. They had to play as squad players before getting regular game time. Fred had a poor first season (still had more of an impact than Donny) then took his chance under Ole when Pogba got injured. McTominay was a reliable squad player that forced his way into starting games by taking those chances afforded to him. Donny hasn’t done any of this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, my memory is that Fred was out of the picture at the start of the 19-20 season and injuries meant he got a run in the team. Was terrible at the start of that run as well
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’d shown more than Donny that he could be trusted, though. Same with McTominay. It’s why we didn’t sign anyone to replace Herrera. They weren’t just gifted a run of games, they actually had to work for it. Apparently Donny doesn’t, he should just be given a run according to some because he was good as an attacking midfielder in the Dutch league.
Forget the run of games. He just needs some playing time, unless you want Bruno to play every minute again and get burnt out. The league Cup is coming up, I would expect Donny to feature.
I’ve said he needs playing time. Though with Lingard back that may not be that often in an attacking mid position.
Lingard should never play AM. Wide forward is his best position.
Donny is a lovely footballer. Thankfully it sounds like his agent has bullied ole into giving him the gametime he deserves
Loolkng forward to him proving you doubters wrong.
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 3 minutes ago
sounds like his agent has bullied ole into giving him the gametime he deserves
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah, that's definitely what's happened
VDB has no right to anything, he has to earn it, he said so himself when he joined. The issue is he was bought as backup to Bruno who will hardly ever be rested and if he ever is it’s highly unlikely VDB will do enough to displace him to get a run of games that he needs/wants. I do think Ole needs to be better at rotation because we’ve seen too many of our key players burn out but I just don’t see Bruno being rested because he’s so important which means VDB simply isn’t going to get games, keeping Lingard will make that even less likely.
He deserves a fair crack. He earnt that when he agreed to join us.
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 47 minutes ago
Donny is a lovely footballer. Thankfully it sounds like his agent has bullied ole into giving him the gametime he deserves
Loolkng forward to him proving you doubters wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More likely he has bulked up a bit and adapted a little more to the pl
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 24 minutes ago
He deserves a fair crack. He earnt that when he agreed to join us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He does deserve a fair crack and Ole obviously intends to give him one if he's kept him. However, he also has to force those chances in training and then take them when he plays. He did ok last season, but nothing more. That's not going to be enough to displace Bruno or Pogba.
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 47 minutes ago
Donny is a lovely footballer. Thankfully it sounds like his agent has bullied ole into giving him the gametime he deserves
Loolkng forward to him proving you doubters wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More likely he has bulked up a bit and adapted a little more to the pl
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More likely.than what the agent has told us as fact?
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 24 minutes ago
He deserves a fair crack. He earnt that when he agreed to join us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He does deserve a fair crack and Ole obviously intends to give him one if he's kept him. However, he also has to force those chances in training and then take them when he plays. He did ok last season, but nothing more. That's not going to be enough to displace Bruno or Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He doesnt have to displace them. We play 3 in midfield.
Sign in if you want to comment
Time for Donny's agent to pipe down?
Page 6 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 6/9/21
Clockwork, yep and that’s where I think he’s been misused. He’s not been given enough opportunities in a squad role capacity. Plus there’s been times where he should have been giving longer as a sub, not five minutes.
I just don’t agree with this idea he should just be given a run of games. If Ole does the former, the latter may follow if he justifies it with his performances. McTominay and Fred actually had to do just that. They weren’t gifted a run of games, they worked their way in by performing when called upon.
Granted, the time at which they did was a bit easier to get games, but it is what it is.
posted on 6/9/21
His interview on Rio's channel is worth a watch. Howson specifically asks him about his game time. Interesting watch and confirms my thoughts that he seems like a really nice lad, very down to earth.
posted on 6/9/21
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 8 minutes ago
It kind of is an issue when that’s his direct competition for a place in the team.
I think he’s struggled to adapt, clearly. It isn’t uncommon, Holland produces plenty of players who do well in the national league and side.
Here is Van Bastens assessment of the situation:
“It just wasn’t smart choices. If you say you spoke to Real Madrid and then you go to Manchester United, you are betting way too high," Van Basten is quoted by Voetbal Zone.
“Van de Beek is not that good. As number 10 at Ajax it is much easier than as number 10 in Spain or England. In the Netherlands you get a lot of help, you get opportunities, but that is not the case abroad.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say it's on Ole and the backers pulling the strings. Kid cost a chunk of cash so to not play him suggests he's a bad match and wasn't needed. That's gotta be on whoever said he'd be a good fit. As others have said, it's not like united haven't played people that aren't amazing. Can't tell me matic and Fred get games and he can't get some game time at his age, and with his fee?
Is he that bad he can't play to even try and protect his resale value? Surely not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe Ole, maybe the scouts, maybe the agent, maybe Ed, maybe a mixture of the above, who knows?
What we do know, is if you perform, Ole will generally continue to play you.
posted on 6/9/21
last season he actually made 7 appearances when he played the full 90 minutes, and a further 11 when he played 45 minutes or more.
so 18 reasonably full appearances isn't quite the "5 minutes here, 10 minutes there" idea that some people seem to have...to be honest it's the idea i had before looking up the numbers, presumably because he hasn't really made a huge impression when he has played.
i'd be interested to know what he was told before joining - just as i'd be interested to know what we told pogba before playing him in a midfield two with fellaini in his first few matches - but from the outside this doesn't look great.
given how we didn't sign sancho last summer, but then splashed £30m on two kids as second prize, it is tempting to conclude that we weren't really targeting donny, but couldn't do our proper business, so just picked him up when his madrid move fell through.
posted on 6/9/21
comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 28 minutes ago
His interview on Rio's channel is worth a watch. Howson specifically asks him about his game time. Interesting watch and confirms my thoughts that he seems like a really nice lad, very down to earth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And nothing in it what so ever that suggests he feels he has been humiliated by the manager. No idea what that poster was imagining.
posted on 6/9/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 28 minutes ago
His interview on Rio's channel is worth a watch. Howson specifically asks him about his game time. Interesting watch and confirms my thoughts that he seems like a really nice lad, very down to earth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And nothing in it what so ever that suggests he feels he has been humiliated by the manager. No idea what that poster was imagining.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah he came across well and very much like he 'gets it', so far at least. This idea some people have built up that Donny is some poor hostage who is being treated terribly is getting a bit silly. He's worked hard, filled out and I assume he understands the league much better than 12 months ago. I expect he'll get more minutes, he's a young lad who came in from a very different league. Throwing him in for 5 games if you suspect he'll really struggle would be very poor management and could have flipped the fan opinion completely round. He's likely trying to protect him rather than hurt him.
Ole has done enough to suggest I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in how he is managing him, it's one of the things he's shown he's good at.
posted on 6/9/21
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 36 minutes ago
McTominay and Fred actually had to do just that. They weren’t gifted a run of games, they worked their way in by performing when called upon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure they were. When Fred was given a run for the first time, he was woeful at first. But Ole stuck with him, and he built some rhythm and became less woeful.
posted on 6/9/21
Fox
Indeed. We do have some myth creators and spreaders on this site. Another is that Pogba was toxic in the dressing room where it actually appears that he is the exact opposite.
posted on 6/9/21
Never got that about Pogba either. That's people who get their opinion from people on forums, who get their opinion from pundits, who are employed to stoke the flames and role people up a bit. Everything I've seen from him and heard from him as well as anybody who interacts with him is always positive.
He likely suffers from the fact that as a young lad he enjoys a bit of silliness, dancing and messing about with his hair. Because that's a sure fire way to judge someone's character.
posted on 6/9/21
No they weren’t. They had to play as squad players before getting regular game time. Fred had a poor first season (still had more of an impact than Donny) then took his chance under Ole when Pogba got injured. McTominay was a reliable squad player that forced his way into starting games by taking those chances afforded to him. Donny hasn’t done any of this.
posted on 6/9/21
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
No they weren’t. They had to play as squad players before getting regular game time. Fred had a poor first season (still had more of an impact than Donny) then took his chance under Ole when Pogba got injured. McTominay was a reliable squad player that forced his way into starting games by taking those chances afforded to him. Donny hasn’t done any of this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, my memory is that Fred was out of the picture at the start of the 19-20 season and injuries meant he got a run in the team. Was terrible at the start of that run as well
posted on 6/9/21
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
No they weren’t. They had to play as squad players before getting regular game time. Fred had a poor first season (still had more of an impact than Donny) then took his chance under Ole when Pogba got injured. McTominay was a reliable squad player that forced his way into starting games by taking those chances afforded to him. Donny hasn’t done any of this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, my memory is that Fred was out of the picture at the start of the 19-20 season and injuries meant he got a run in the team. Was terrible at the start of that run as well
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly.
McT took his chance under Jose. Fred in his first few games under Ole wasn't good. Carrick even said how they were having to work on his mentality during this time.
posted on 6/9/21
comment by Clockwork Red: Jadon and the Argonauts (U4892)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
No they weren’t. They had to play as squad players before getting regular game time. Fred had a poor first season (still had more of an impact than Donny) then took his chance under Ole when Pogba got injured. McTominay was a reliable squad player that forced his way into starting games by taking those chances afforded to him. Donny hasn’t done any of this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, my memory is that Fred was out of the picture at the start of the 19-20 season and injuries meant he got a run in the team. Was terrible at the start of that run as well
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’d shown more than Donny that he could be trusted, though. Same with McTominay. It’s why we didn’t sign anyone to replace Herrera. They weren’t just gifted a run of games, they actually had to work for it. Apparently Donny doesn’t, he should just be given a run according to some because he was good as an attacking midfielder in the Dutch league.
posted on 6/9/21
Forget the run of games. He just needs some playing time, unless you want Bruno to play every minute again and get burnt out. The league Cup is coming up, I would expect Donny to feature.
posted on 6/9/21
I’ve said he needs playing time. Though with Lingard back that may not be that often in an attacking mid position.
posted on 6/9/21
Lingard should never play AM. Wide forward is his best position.
posted on 6/9/21
Donny is a lovely footballer. Thankfully it sounds like his agent has bullied ole into giving him the gametime he deserves
Loolkng forward to him proving you doubters wrong.
posted on 6/9/21
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 3 minutes ago
sounds like his agent has bullied ole into giving him the gametime he deserves
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah, that's definitely what's happened
posted on 6/9/21
posted on 6/9/21
VDB has no right to anything, he has to earn it, he said so himself when he joined. The issue is he was bought as backup to Bruno who will hardly ever be rested and if he ever is it’s highly unlikely VDB will do enough to displace him to get a run of games that he needs/wants. I do think Ole needs to be better at rotation because we’ve seen too many of our key players burn out but I just don’t see Bruno being rested because he’s so important which means VDB simply isn’t going to get games, keeping Lingard will make that even less likely.
posted on 6/9/21
He deserves a fair crack. He earnt that when he agreed to join us.
posted on 6/9/21
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 47 minutes ago
Donny is a lovely footballer. Thankfully it sounds like his agent has bullied ole into giving him the gametime he deserves
Loolkng forward to him proving you doubters wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More likely he has bulked up a bit and adapted a little more to the pl
posted on 6/9/21
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 24 minutes ago
He deserves a fair crack. He earnt that when he agreed to join us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He does deserve a fair crack and Ole obviously intends to give him one if he's kept him. However, he also has to force those chances in training and then take them when he plays. He did ok last season, but nothing more. That's not going to be enough to displace Bruno or Pogba.
posted on 6/9/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 47 minutes ago
Donny is a lovely footballer. Thankfully it sounds like his agent has bullied ole into giving him the gametime he deserves
Loolkng forward to him proving you doubters wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More likely he has bulked up a bit and adapted a little more to the pl
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More likely.than what the agent has told us as fact?
posted on 6/9/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 24 minutes ago
He deserves a fair crack. He earnt that when he agreed to join us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He does deserve a fair crack and Ole obviously intends to give him one if he's kept him. However, he also has to force those chances in training and then take them when he plays. He did ok last season, but nothing more. That's not going to be enough to displace Bruno or Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He doesnt have to displace them. We play 3 in midfield.
Page 6 of 7
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