We were poor, that's not up for debate.
Regardless of whether Maguire's captain or not, who are the leaders on the pitch at the moment? Someone like Keane that won't tolerate carelessness, gives players who are having a nightmare or not trying a rocket? I know Pogba's getting it in the neck off just about everyone, but who was telling him to pull himself together and put a shift in? I can't see any at the moment.
Scholay
I don’t disagree with all of that. Just a few bits. We were nowhere near as bad as we were against the dips. That was one of the worst United performances in my lifetime.
And I don’t think they cut through us that much. We let them play it out from the back but our defensive shape was much better than the first game and they didn’t create that much.
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 4 minutes ago
A rare article from VC.
Wouldn’t disagree with any of that. Atalanta did not create much at all outside of the goals and any goals or chances came from errors.
I’d be more critical at De Gea over the 2nd goal. The 1st goal was a mistake that happens most keepers every now and then. The 2nd one could have been avoided if he actually came off his line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This!!! Especially with a defender like Maguire starting, he needs to sweep more. Its why I still prefer Henderson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, the ball did come a long way. Even if he had stepped out 1 or 2 yards he would have made it much more difficult for the attacker and likely smothered the ball.
Yeh, the ball did come a long way. Even if he had stepped out 1 or 2 yards he would have made it much more difficult for the attacker and likely smothered the ball.
…..
The Great Dane alluded to this a bit in his after match punditry. Now there was a GK who knew how to come off his line.
DDG’s distribution has been very poor of late as well.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 51 minutes ago
Scholay
I don’t disagree with all of that. Just a few bits. We were nowhere near as bad as we were against the dips. That was one of the worst United performances in my lifetime.
And I don’t think they cut through us that much. We let them play it out from the back but our defensive shape was much better than the first game and they didn’t create that much.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair VC. I may be wrong but I saw Bailly chasing 1 vs 1 against their striker anytime they had the ball our half. Maguire was nowhere to be seen most of the time. Although Scott was fighting, when it came to getting the ball and doing something with it he was hiding just like Pogba, which meant we had no midfield.
On my point against the dips, I completely get you that was one of the most woeful performance I have seen too, but that was so because of the quality we were playing. Yesterday, 2/3 of those chances fall to a Mo Salah, the score line is 4 easily.
Ronaldo has been doing this for 15 years, nothing lucky about it.
Scholay
That is why it was surprise to me that they created so little considering how poor both Pogba and McT were.
I wasn’t worried with the one on ones with Bailly and Zapata. Bailly handled him pretty well apart from the goal.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
We weren't too bad in terms of overall defensive shape (also bearing in mind some of the results Atalanta have achieved against the likes of City and Liverpool in recent years). That said, we were as bad progressing the ball forward and putting together attacking moves as a team as we have been in any of the disappointing performances this season. The first goal was the exception to that. The draw was earned only thanks to possessing the Ronaldo cheat code.
On Ronaldo, like VC, I'm still a sceptic we're better off as a whole with him in the team but obviously he's very much testing that opinion at the moment.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
We weren't too bad in terms of overall defensive shape (also bearing in mind some of the results Atalanta have achieved against the likes of City and Liverpool in recent years). That said, we were as bad progressing the ball forward and putting together attacking moves as a team as we have been in any of the disappointing performances this season. The first goal was the exception to that. The draw was earned only thanks to possessing the Ronaldo cheat code.
On Ronaldo, like VC, I'm still a sceptic we're better off as a whole with him in the team but obviously he's very much testing that opinion at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronaldo could've joined clubs going for leagues and definitely champions league latter stages but came to us. For this alone, I am not sure we are in a position to complain.
Looking at this season, I know it is all ifs and buts, I highly doubt we would be in a much better place without Ronaldo. The manager is not good enough with or without Ronaldo.
Certainly not as bad as we were against Liverpool, but that’s like saying being shot 3 times isn’t as bad as being shot 5 times. We were still awful.
I don’t think you can give props to the manager for the formation change; he was coerced into going two at the back due to injuries. Without Bailly, we concede four or five as opposed to two.
Our first was a brilliant but of play, but totally out of the blue. As RR says, are ability to ping the ball around and create chances was non-existent, up to that brilliant bit of play. Goes to show the value of world class players on the pitch even if they are out of form (Bruno in particular).
You only need to go watch the highlights to see how little we created in the second half, where we should’ve been throwing the kitchen sink at them. The only inclusion being that Bruno lunging cross / shot from an over hit, looped pass from AWB.
Finally, how Ole can watch that dross - knowing we need a goal to have a decent/good chance of progressing from the group - for 41 minutes of a half, before making a double sub with FOUR MINUTES to go is beyond me.
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Is there an answer to this in the context of the current set of players and the current coaching team?
I fear for us on Saturday.
I don’t think you can give props to the manager for the formation change; he was coerced into going two at the back due to injuries.
…..
He did not have to. He could have dropped Shaw into the LCB role and brought on Telles to play at WB which is what I and both match commentators thought he would do until we saw Greenwood warming up.
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
Telles has made two appearances all season. Two. That’s hardly an inspired tactical switch, whereas we have played the vast majority of games with 4 at the back, with the same personnel as last night bar MOTM Bailly (who again was selected due to injuries).
Further, it’s not as though we made the formation change and things suddenly improved; we were abysmal in the second half and continued to look very shaky at the back, in large parts thanks to a captain who looks like he’s forgotten how to play football or even run.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
That’s hardly an inspired tactical switch
….
No one said it was inspired. But it was the correct one to make.
I agree it was correct, but I also think that Ole was faced with a very simple choice there and it is remiss to give him props for that very simple choice
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Atalanta create any other clear cut changes other than their goals? The first one being a bit fortunate.
A draw was about right on the balance of play.
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronaldo had a header in the first half he should have done better with. McT had a shot deflected off the post and Shaw had a volley he hit into the ground and over the bar. All in the first half.
AWB had a good chance in the second half and his shot hit Greenwood in the back. Beekers made himself a difficult one right at the death.
A draw was about right on the balance of play.
…..
The match stats also suggest a draw was a fair result.
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Atalanta create any other clear cut changes other than their goals? The first one being a bit fortunate.
A draw was about right on the balance of play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zapata at around 30 mins after Pog plays a horrendous pass that is deflected from just outside the corner of the box. Zap and another Atalanta player through and should have buried before Bailly flies in like superman. If he squares it, guaranteed goal almost.
Toward the end, Zapata again has a near free header after an Atalanta corner and should bury it.
Zapata has another decent effort saved right towards the end, but I accept that was a speculative shot and by no means even a chance, let alone clear cut.
I do think their first is as clear cut as they come, though. It is fortunate for them as Ilicic puts it right down DDG’s throat and the latter should make the save, but Ilicic should have never afforded him that luxury and just buried it either side.
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My Views From Last Night
Page 2 of 4
posted on 3/11/21
We were poor, that's not up for debate.
Regardless of whether Maguire's captain or not, who are the leaders on the pitch at the moment? Someone like Keane that won't tolerate carelessness, gives players who are having a nightmare or not trying a rocket? I know Pogba's getting it in the neck off just about everyone, but who was telling him to pull himself together and put a shift in? I can't see any at the moment.
posted on 3/11/21
Scholay
I don’t disagree with all of that. Just a few bits. We were nowhere near as bad as we were against the dips. That was one of the worst United performances in my lifetime.
And I don’t think they cut through us that much. We let them play it out from the back but our defensive shape was much better than the first game and they didn’t create that much.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 4 minutes ago
A rare article from VC.
Wouldn’t disagree with any of that. Atalanta did not create much at all outside of the goals and any goals or chances came from errors.
I’d be more critical at De Gea over the 2nd goal. The 1st goal was a mistake that happens most keepers every now and then. The 2nd one could have been avoided if he actually came off his line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This!!! Especially with a defender like Maguire starting, he needs to sweep more. Its why I still prefer Henderson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, the ball did come a long way. Even if he had stepped out 1 or 2 yards he would have made it much more difficult for the attacker and likely smothered the ball.
posted on 3/11/21
Yeh, the ball did come a long way. Even if he had stepped out 1 or 2 yards he would have made it much more difficult for the attacker and likely smothered the ball.
…..
The Great Dane alluded to this a bit in his after match punditry. Now there was a GK who knew how to come off his line.
DDG’s distribution has been very poor of late as well.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 51 minutes ago
Scholay
I don’t disagree with all of that. Just a few bits. We were nowhere near as bad as we were against the dips. That was one of the worst United performances in my lifetime.
And I don’t think they cut through us that much. We let them play it out from the back but our defensive shape was much better than the first game and they didn’t create that much.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair VC. I may be wrong but I saw Bailly chasing 1 vs 1 against their striker anytime they had the ball our half. Maguire was nowhere to be seen most of the time. Although Scott was fighting, when it came to getting the ball and doing something with it he was hiding just like Pogba, which meant we had no midfield.
On my point against the dips, I completely get you that was one of the most woeful performance I have seen too, but that was so because of the quality we were playing. Yesterday, 2/3 of those chances fall to a Mo Salah, the score line is 4 easily.
posted on 3/11/21
Ronaldo has been doing this for 15 years, nothing lucky about it.
posted on 3/11/21
Scholay
That is why it was surprise to me that they created so little considering how poor both Pogba and McT were.
I wasn’t worried with the one on ones with Bailly and Zapata. Bailly handled him pretty well apart from the goal.
posted on 3/11/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 3/11/21
We weren't too bad in terms of overall defensive shape (also bearing in mind some of the results Atalanta have achieved against the likes of City and Liverpool in recent years). That said, we were as bad progressing the ball forward and putting together attacking moves as a team as we have been in any of the disappointing performances this season. The first goal was the exception to that. The draw was earned only thanks to possessing the Ronaldo cheat code.
On Ronaldo, like VC, I'm still a sceptic we're better off as a whole with him in the team but obviously he's very much testing that opinion at the moment.
posted on 3/11/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 3/11/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 3/11/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
We weren't too bad in terms of overall defensive shape (also bearing in mind some of the results Atalanta have achieved against the likes of City and Liverpool in recent years). That said, we were as bad progressing the ball forward and putting together attacking moves as a team as we have been in any of the disappointing performances this season. The first goal was the exception to that. The draw was earned only thanks to possessing the Ronaldo cheat code.
On Ronaldo, like VC, I'm still a sceptic we're better off as a whole with him in the team but obviously he's very much testing that opinion at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronaldo could've joined clubs going for leagues and definitely champions league latter stages but came to us. For this alone, I am not sure we are in a position to complain.
Looking at this season, I know it is all ifs and buts, I highly doubt we would be in a much better place without Ronaldo. The manager is not good enough with or without Ronaldo.
posted on 3/11/21
Certainly not as bad as we were against Liverpool, but that’s like saying being shot 3 times isn’t as bad as being shot 5 times. We were still awful.
I don’t think you can give props to the manager for the formation change; he was coerced into going two at the back due to injuries. Without Bailly, we concede four or five as opposed to two.
Our first was a brilliant but of play, but totally out of the blue. As RR says, are ability to ping the ball around and create chances was non-existent, up to that brilliant bit of play. Goes to show the value of world class players on the pitch even if they are out of form (Bruno in particular).
You only need to go watch the highlights to see how little we created in the second half, where we should’ve been throwing the kitchen sink at them. The only inclusion being that Bruno lunging cross / shot from an over hit, looped pass from AWB.
Finally, how Ole can watch that dross - knowing we need a goal to have a decent/good chance of progressing from the group - for 41 minutes of a half, before making a double sub with FOUR MINUTES to go is beyond me.
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
posted on 3/11/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 3/11/21
Is there an answer to this in the context of the current set of players and the current coaching team?
I fear for us on Saturday.
posted on 3/11/21
I don’t think you can give props to the manager for the formation change; he was coerced into going two at the back due to injuries.
…..
He did not have to. He could have dropped Shaw into the LCB role and brought on Telles to play at WB which is what I and both match commentators thought he would do until we saw Greenwood warming up.
posted on 3/11/21
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
posted on 3/11/21
Telles has made two appearances all season. Two. That’s hardly an inspired tactical switch, whereas we have played the vast majority of games with 4 at the back, with the same personnel as last night bar MOTM Bailly (who again was selected due to injuries).
Further, it’s not as though we made the formation change and things suddenly improved; we were abysmal in the second half and continued to look very shaky at the back, in large parts thanks to a captain who looks like he’s forgotten how to play football or even run.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
posted on 3/11/21
That’s hardly an inspired tactical switch
….
No one said it was inspired. But it was the correct one to make.
posted on 3/11/21
I agree it was correct, but I also think that Ole was faced with a very simple choice there and it is remiss to give him props for that very simple choice
posted on 3/11/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Atalanta create any other clear cut changes other than their goals? The first one being a bit fortunate.
A draw was about right on the balance of play.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronaldo had a header in the first half he should have done better with. McT had a shot deflected off the post and Shaw had a volley he hit into the ground and over the bar. All in the first half.
AWB had a good chance in the second half and his shot hit Greenwood in the back. Beekers made himself a difficult one right at the death.
posted on 3/11/21
A draw was about right on the balance of play.
…..
The match stats also suggest a draw was a fair result.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Atalanta create any other clear cut changes other than their goals? The first one being a bit fortunate.
A draw was about right on the balance of play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zapata at around 30 mins after Pog plays a horrendous pass that is deflected from just outside the corner of the box. Zap and another Atalanta player through and should have buried before Bailly flies in like superman. If he squares it, guaranteed goal almost.
Toward the end, Zapata again has a near free header after an Atalanta corner and should bury it.
Zapata has another decent effort saved right towards the end, but I accept that was a speculative shot and by no means even a chance, let alone clear cut.
I do think their first is as clear cut as they come, though. It is fortunate for them as Ilicic puts it right down DDG’s throat and the latter should make the save, but Ilicic should have never afforded him that luxury and just buried it either side.
Page 2 of 4