comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 59 seconds ago
I agree it was correct, but I also think that Ole was faced with a very simple choice there and it is remiss to give him props for that very simple choice
----------------------------------------------------------------------
he could have (tbh should have) maintained a back 3 so early in the game especially with Maguires form
VC, I said clear cut. Deflected shots that happen to hit the post are not what I would call clear cut and are born of luck as opposed to skill and intent.
With Ronnie’s, it should have been a clear cut chance, but the ball from Pog leaves a lot to be desired; I would put the blame on for the latter as opposed to Ron.
AWB’s, he’s striking through a crowd; Donny’s looked like a decent chance albeit at a very tight angle.
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Atalanta create any other clear cut changes other than their goals? The first one being a bit fortunate.
A draw was about right on the balance of play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zapata at around 30 mins after Pog plays a horrendous pass that is deflected from just outside the corner of the box. Zap and another Atalanta player through and should have buried before Bailly flies in like superman. If he squares it, guaranteed goal almost.
Toward the end, Zapata again has a near free header after an Atalanta corner and should bury it.
Zapata has another decent effort saved right towards the end, but I accept that was a speculative shot and by no means even a chance, let alone clear cut.
I do think their first is as clear cut as they come, though. It is fortunate for them as Ilicic puts it right down DDG’s throat and the latter should make the save, but Ilicic should have never afforded him that luxury and just buried it either side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The one time ddg should use his leg, he dives.
Zapata at around 30 mins after Pog plays a horrendous pass that is deflected from just outside the corner of the box. Zap and another Atalanta player through and should have buried before Bailly flies in like superman. If he squares it, guaranteed goal almost.
----------------
Not a clear cut chance by your own criteria. Bailly was around to block it - the pass wasn't that simple as he had to wait for it to come down.
Problem is you are judging this by your own pre-conceived expectations of Atalanta vs Manchester United, rather than looking at it objectively as Team A vs Team B. If you were to do the latter everything, including the match stats, would tell you a draw was about right.
For the record, I’m not one of these who wants us to lose because they’re Ole-out or something. I celebrated Ronny’s second like nobody’s business and always will, irrespective of my feelings towards individuals at the club.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night. We were utter pants. At the very least, in the first game against them, we created chance after chance after chance - in both halves - in last night’s game, I think we created one truly clear cut chance to their three. A side sitting 5th in a poor Serie A league who are hugely reliant on the first 11 as opposed to having the luxury of a vastly talented squad.
If we are to have aspirations of silverware, performances like last night can’t be tolerated as a norm. One offs, of course, but this isn’t a one-off.
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 9 seconds ago
For the record, I’m not one of these who wants us to lose because they’re Ole-out or something. I celebrated Ronny’s second like nobody’s business and always will, irrespective of my feelings towards individuals at the club.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night. We were utter pants. At the very least, in the first game against them, we created chance after chance after chance - in both halves - in last night’s game, I think we created one truly clear cut chance to their three. A side sitting 5th in a poor Serie A league who are hugely reliant on the first 11 as opposed to having the luxury of a vastly talented squad.
If we are to have aspirations of silverware, performances like last night can’t be tolerated as a norm. One offs, of course, but this isn’t a one-off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think any of us have aspirations to silverware with the current setup (players and coaching)
If things change, new DM in Jan, new coach or whatever, maybe, but right now I'm just watching match to match and enjoying a good result or performance when we get one.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night
--------------
Who is 'you all'? No one is satisfied. It was shīt.
Our only point is Atalanta were pretty shīt also. Otherwise they would have won.
VC, I said clear cut. Deflected shots that happen to hit the post are not what I would call clear cut and are born of luck as opposed to skill and intent.
…..
It was still a good chance. McT shouldn’t have hit the player.
I think the timing of our equalizer is what has skewed this to be more luck than what we deserved.
We had more possession, more shots at goal and the same number of shots on target.
Bloodred, I never set out my own criteria, just that deflected or long range shots are not typically defined as clear cut chances.
If Zapata squares the ball with his head - long before it falls to volley height and therefore long before Bailly is able to intervene - to the other Atalanta player (can’t recall whom), it looks a definite goal. It is clear cut in that for a few moments, Zapata is 8-10 yards out in the dead centre of our goal with nobody in sight. His hesitation allows Bailly back in, but if he is active prior to waiting for the ball to fall, they should score. Hell, he could even wait for the ball to fall to feet and then square it, as Bailly has made his decision that he’s going to attempt the last ditch block (he has no other choice).
https://youtu.be/MERiWVq4JGE
2:20 in that ^
Our only point is Atalanta were pretty shīt also. Otherwise they would have won.
……
Exactly. There is nothing in the match that says they deserved to win.
I’ll always love watching us play. Even when we lose, I’d rather we were playing than not playing. What hurts is the hope & promise.
Coming into this season, I’m sure you all had ambitions of silverware if not a title challenge; I certainly did of the former (always thought Chelsea looked too strong after Tuchel).
Now, I’m frustrated because I see individual talent across the pitch yet we have players running around seemingly without knowledge of their positioning or the tactics being employed. I look at Chelsea’s cut throat decision making and I’m glad we are a different entity, but also with envy that they were able to overcome the sentiment and get themselves a world class manager. It’s difficult not to ask “what if” we did the same, and infuriating nights like last night add fuel to that fire
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronaldo had a header in the first half he should have done better with. McT had a shot deflected off the post and Shaw had a volley he hit into the ground and over the bar. All in the first half.
AWB had a good chance in the second half and his shot hit Greenwood in the back. Beekers made himself a difficult one right at the death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fernandes had a shot on goal at the near post, but that was more of a half chance. Greenwood also hit the post, but I think he was offside (was distracted at the time).
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 6 minutes ago
Bloodred, I never set out my own criteria, just that deflected or long range shots are not typically defined as clear cut chances.
If Zapata squares the ball with his head - long before it falls to volley height and therefore long before Bailly is able to intervene - to the other Atalanta player (can’t recall whom), it looks a definite goal. It is clear cut in that for a few moments, Zapata is 8-10 yards out in the dead centre of our goal with nobody in sight. His hesitation allows Bailly back in, but if he is active prior to waiting for the ball to fall, they should score. Hell, he could even wait for the ball to fall to feet and then square it, as Bailly has made his decision that he’s going to attempt the last ditch block (he has no other choice).
https://youtu.be/MERiWVq4JGE
2:20 in that ^
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OK, whatever. I disagree but can't really be bothered to argue this point. But if your reasoning is that Atalanta deserved to win because they perhaps had one more chance than us which they could have scored but weren't able to, it isn't really a great argument is it?
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 6 minutes ago
Bloodred, I never set out my own criteria, just that deflected or long range shots are not typically defined as clear cut chances.
If Zapata squares the ball with his head - long before it falls to volley height and therefore long before Bailly is able to intervene - to the other Atalanta player (can’t recall whom), it looks a definite goal. It is clear cut in that for a few moments, Zapata is 8-10 yards out in the dead centre of our goal with nobody in sight. His hesitation allows Bailly back in, but if he is active prior to waiting for the ball to fall, they should score. Hell, he could even wait for the ball to fall to feet and then square it, as Bailly has made his decision that he’s going to attempt the last ditch block (he has no other choice).
https://youtu.be/MERiWVq4JGE
2:20 in that ^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, whatever. I disagree but can't really be bothered to argue this point. But if your reasoning is that Atalanta deserved to win because they perhaps had one more chance than us which they could have scored but weren't able to, it isn't really a great argument is it?
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And how old are you? Seems counter-intuitive when visiting a forum designed to facilitate debate.
My argument was that we didn’t deserve the draw we managed to get in the end based on performances over the course of the game. A missed, clear cut chance like that is not definitive in that regard, but helps to corroborate the argument.
I’m not so stubborn as to have complete inertia in my stance, but offering alternatives - like some of the other guys did we stats and our own clear cut chances - seems like a more fitting response on a debate forum than just saying “whatever” like a teenager whose just been peeled away from his television.
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 15 minutes ago
For the record, I’m not one of these who wants us to lose because they’re Ole-out or something. I celebrated Ronny’s second like nobody’s business and always will, irrespective of my feelings towards individuals at the club.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night. We were utter pants. At the very least, in the first game against them, we created chance after chance after chance - in both halves - in last night’s game, I think we created one truly clear cut chance to their three. A side sitting 5th in a poor Serie A league who are hugely reliant on the first 11 as opposed to having the luxury of a vastly talented squad.
If we are to have aspirations of silverware, performances like last night can’t be tolerated as a norm. One offs, of course, but this isn’t a one-off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about being positive - its just giving an honest opinion. We weren't lucky to win last night. We had just as food if not better chances than Atalanta. A draw was a fair result. That doesn't mean we are happy with the performance or result. But there has been a lot of hyperbole the last few weeks when we have come from behind to get results, even though in most cases we have deserved that result.
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronaldo had a header in the first half he should have done better with. McT had a shot deflected off the post and Shaw had a volley he hit into the ground and over the bar. All in the first half.
AWB had a good chance in the second half and his shot hit Greenwood in the back. Beekers made himself a difficult one right at the death.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fernandes had a shot on goal at the near post, but that was more of a half chance. Greenwood also hit the post, but I think he was offside (was distracted at the time).
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I think the Bruno one was the shot / cross that AWB put him through for. Again, sloppy ball from the provider, otherwise we’d have had a decent chance on our hands.
Mason was offside but yeah, totally agree that would’ve been a clear cut chance if he’d have been on
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 15 minutes ago
For the record, I’m not one of these who wants us to lose because they’re Ole-out or something. I celebrated Ronny’s second like nobody’s business and always will, irrespective of my feelings towards individuals at the club.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night. We were utter pants. At the very least, in the first game against them, we created chance after chance after chance - in both halves - in last night’s game, I think we created one truly clear cut chance to their three. A side sitting 5th in a poor Serie A league who are hugely reliant on the first 11 as opposed to having the luxury of a vastly talented squad.
If we are to have aspirations of silverware, performances like last night can’t be tolerated as a norm. One offs, of course, but this isn’t a one-off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about being positive - its just giving an honest opinion. We weren't lucky to win last night. We had just as food if not better chances than Atalanta. A draw was a fair result. That doesn't mean we are happy with the performance or result. But there has been a lot of hyperbole the last few weeks when we have come from behind to get results, even though in most cases we have deserved that result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% deserved to come back in the first game and win, no doubt about that. Having watched last night’s game (and after this debate, the highlights about 10 times 😂) I just don’t agree we deserved a draw.
People disagree though, and I can see I’m in the minority on this particular thread in thinking that we didn’t deserve the draw. Maybe I’m being particularly harsh given my affinity to United or given the way of the winds at the moment, but it’s just the way I saw the game.
Makes me worried for City at the weekend, but here’s to hoping!
My argument was that we didn’t deserve the dra
….
You have not argued your case though. All you have done is come up with some chances they had which equate to the same amount as the ones we had.
Then you used some whataboutery for another chance that didn’t happen because of good defending and have tried to diss the chances we had.
The stats do not lie in this game. We both had 4 shots on target. We had 6 % more possession. We also had 3 more shots at goal than they did. They had 4 more corners than us.
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 15 minutes ago
For the record, I’m not one of these who wants us to lose because they’re Ole-out or something. I celebrated Ronny’s second like nobody’s business and always will, irrespective of my feelings towards individuals at the club.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night. We were utter pants. At the very least, in the first game against them, we created chance after chance after chance - in both halves - in last night’s game, I think we created one truly clear cut chance to their three. A side sitting 5th in a poor Serie A league who are hugely reliant on the first 11 as opposed to having the luxury of a vastly talented squad.
If we are to have aspirations of silverware, performances like last night can’t be tolerated as a norm. One offs, of course, but this isn’t a one-off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about being positive - its just giving an honest opinion. We weren't lucky to win last night. We had just as food if not better chances than Atalanta. A draw was a fair result. That doesn't mean we are happy with the performance or result. But there has been a lot of hyperbole the last few weeks when we have come from behind to get results, even though in most cases we have deserved that result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% deserved to come back in the first game and win, no doubt about that. Having watched last night’s game (and after this debate, the highlights about 10 times 😂) I just don’t agree we deserved a draw.
People disagree though, and I can see I’m in the minority on this particular thread in thinking that we didn’t deserve the draw. Maybe I’m being particularly harsh given my affinity to United or given the way of the winds at the moment, but it’s just the way I saw the game.
Makes me worried for City at the weekend, but here’s to hoping!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was a close game and if we had lost than we couldn't really have complained. To be fair, both of their goals came from errors. De Gea should have saved the first and come out for the second. Even if he hadn't come off his line our defenders should have dealt with it instead of called for the offside.
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 6 minutes ago
Bloodred, I never set out my own criteria, just that deflected or long range shots are not typically defined as clear cut chances.
If Zapata squares the ball with his head - long before it falls to volley height and therefore long before Bailly is able to intervene - to the other Atalanta player (can’t recall whom), it looks a definite goal. It is clear cut in that for a few moments, Zapata is 8-10 yards out in the dead centre of our goal with nobody in sight. His hesitation allows Bailly back in, but if he is active prior to waiting for the ball to fall, they should score. Hell, he could even wait for the ball to fall to feet and then square it, as Bailly has made his decision that he’s going to attempt the last ditch block (he has no other choice).
https://youtu.be/MERiWVq4JGE
2:20 in that ^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, whatever. I disagree but can't really be bothered to argue this point. But if your reasoning is that Atalanta deserved to win because they perhaps had one more chance than us which they could have scored but weren't able to, it isn't really a great argument is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how old are you? Seems counter-intuitive when visiting a forum designed to facilitate debate.
My argument was that we didn’t deserve the draw we managed to get in the end based on performances over the course of the game. A missed, clear cut chance like that is not definitive in that regard, but helps to corroborate the argument.
I’m not so stubborn as to have complete inertia in my stance, but offering alternatives - like some of the other guys did we stats and our own clear cut chances - seems like a more fitting response on a debate forum than just saying “whatever” like a teenager whose just been peeled away from his television.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The 'debate' you are having is a pretty pointless one though. All you are basically doing is saying Atalanta deserved to win because Bailly blocked a close range shot. If Atalanta couldn't make that chance count then its poor from them. It isn't like they peppered our goal and dominated possession for 90 minutes is it? It was a pretty even game in which, subjectively, one team might have made one or two more 'clear cut' chances than the other.
I'm not going to sit here and write paragraphs as to whether Zapata's blocked shot was a clear cut chance or not - I've given my view on it. If my use of 'whatever' offends you so much then whatever, I'll take it back.
I have argued my case in that they had 3 clear cut chances to our 1. 3 > 1.
The “whataboutery” is certainly a misused term in this regard as the clear cut chance definitely did happen. To our benefit, Zapata didn’t do better with it, but a player’s inability to convert a chance does not render that chance revoked.
Finally, you’d have thought a United fan would’ve learnt from the Moyes & LvG days that you cannot rely on post-match stats alone to ascertain an accurate picture of how the game went. I, along with a few dozen others watching last night, thought we were fortunate to get the draw.
You don’t have to agree with that, and I’ll refrain from the sort of disparaging you seem to revert to, but that’s my opinion on the game.
I think a draw was a fair enough result in the end. I felt we were lucky to an extent in that we had a long time to come back and created eff all of note until the equaliser.
Having said that, there was nothing stopping Atalanta from trying to kill the game, which they didn't. Based on the overall balance of the game and general lack of quality from both sides, I don't think either team really deserved to win.
What was more concerning was how awful we were in possession, the lack of creativity and the constant lapses in concentration. If we don't start doing the basics right we are going to have quite a few poor results to come, in the next month at least.
It was a close game and I accept that the debate isn’t really relevant because the facts are facts - we drew.
I didn’t come on here to debate the deservedness of it so intently, to be honest, but I accept someone’s right to challenge my opinion and vice versa. Goes to show why I stick to commenting on the movies threads as opposed to these!
My dismay at our recent performances - Spurs aside - has probably spilled over into this, so I shall bid you all a very good day and get back to pretending to work
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Theoretically, yes, but you would have said that about they playing Palace at home or Spurs away. Sometimes it's the fight in the dog that's more important, if we're up for it we could do alright
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My Views From Last Night
Page 3 of 4
posted on 3/11/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 59 seconds ago
I agree it was correct, but I also think that Ole was faced with a very simple choice there and it is remiss to give him props for that very simple choice
----------------------------------------------------------------------
he could have (tbh should have) maintained a back 3 so early in the game especially with Maguires form
posted on 3/11/21
VC, I said clear cut. Deflected shots that happen to hit the post are not what I would call clear cut and are born of luck as opposed to skill and intent.
With Ronnie’s, it should have been a clear cut chance, but the ball from Pog leaves a lot to be desired; I would put the blame on for the latter as opposed to Ron.
AWB’s, he’s striking through a crowd; Donny’s looked like a decent chance albeit at a very tight angle.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Atalanta create any other clear cut changes other than their goals? The first one being a bit fortunate.
A draw was about right on the balance of play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zapata at around 30 mins after Pog plays a horrendous pass that is deflected from just outside the corner of the box. Zap and another Atalanta player through and should have buried before Bailly flies in like superman. If he squares it, guaranteed goal almost.
Toward the end, Zapata again has a near free header after an Atalanta corner and should bury it.
Zapata has another decent effort saved right towards the end, but I accept that was a speculative shot and by no means even a chance, let alone clear cut.
I do think their first is as clear cut as they come, though. It is fortunate for them as Ilicic puts it right down DDG’s throat and the latter should make the save, but Ilicic should have never afforded him that luxury and just buried it either side.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The one time ddg should use his leg, he dives.
posted on 3/11/21
Zapata at around 30 mins after Pog plays a horrendous pass that is deflected from just outside the corner of the box. Zap and another Atalanta player through and should have buried before Bailly flies in like superman. If he squares it, guaranteed goal almost.
----------------
Not a clear cut chance by your own criteria. Bailly was around to block it - the pass wasn't that simple as he had to wait for it to come down.
Problem is you are judging this by your own pre-conceived expectations of Atalanta vs Manchester United, rather than looking at it objectively as Team A vs Team B. If you were to do the latter everything, including the match stats, would tell you a draw was about right.
posted on 3/11/21
For the record, I’m not one of these who wants us to lose because they’re Ole-out or something. I celebrated Ronny’s second like nobody’s business and always will, irrespective of my feelings towards individuals at the club.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night. We were utter pants. At the very least, in the first game against them, we created chance after chance after chance - in both halves - in last night’s game, I think we created one truly clear cut chance to their three. A side sitting 5th in a poor Serie A league who are hugely reliant on the first 11 as opposed to having the luxury of a vastly talented squad.
If we are to have aspirations of silverware, performances like last night can’t be tolerated as a norm. One offs, of course, but this isn’t a one-off.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 9 seconds ago
For the record, I’m not one of these who wants us to lose because they’re Ole-out or something. I celebrated Ronny’s second like nobody’s business and always will, irrespective of my feelings towards individuals at the club.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night. We were utter pants. At the very least, in the first game against them, we created chance after chance after chance - in both halves - in last night’s game, I think we created one truly clear cut chance to their three. A side sitting 5th in a poor Serie A league who are hugely reliant on the first 11 as opposed to having the luxury of a vastly talented squad.
If we are to have aspirations of silverware, performances like last night can’t be tolerated as a norm. One offs, of course, but this isn’t a one-off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think any of us have aspirations to silverware with the current setup (players and coaching)
If things change, new DM in Jan, new coach or whatever, maybe, but right now I'm just watching match to match and enjoying a good result or performance when we get one.
posted on 3/11/21
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night
--------------
Who is 'you all'? No one is satisfied. It was shīt.
Our only point is Atalanta were pretty shīt also. Otherwise they would have won.
posted on 3/11/21
VC, I said clear cut. Deflected shots that happen to hit the post are not what I would call clear cut and are born of luck as opposed to skill and intent.
…..
It was still a good chance. McT shouldn’t have hit the player.
I think the timing of our equalizer is what has skewed this to be more luck than what we deserved.
We had more possession, more shots at goal and the same number of shots on target.
posted on 3/11/21
Bloodred, I never set out my own criteria, just that deflected or long range shots are not typically defined as clear cut chances.
If Zapata squares the ball with his head - long before it falls to volley height and therefore long before Bailly is able to intervene - to the other Atalanta player (can’t recall whom), it looks a definite goal. It is clear cut in that for a few moments, Zapata is 8-10 yards out in the dead centre of our goal with nobody in sight. His hesitation allows Bailly back in, but if he is active prior to waiting for the ball to fall, they should score. Hell, he could even wait for the ball to fall to feet and then square it, as Bailly has made his decision that he’s going to attempt the last ditch block (he has no other choice).
https://youtu.be/MERiWVq4JGE
2:20 in that ^
posted on 3/11/21
Our only point is Atalanta were pretty shīt also. Otherwise they would have won.
……
Exactly. There is nothing in the match that says they deserved to win.
posted on 3/11/21
I’ll always love watching us play. Even when we lose, I’d rather we were playing than not playing. What hurts is the hope & promise.
Coming into this season, I’m sure you all had ambitions of silverware if not a title challenge; I certainly did of the former (always thought Chelsea looked too strong after Tuchel).
Now, I’m frustrated because I see individual talent across the pitch yet we have players running around seemingly without knowledge of their positioning or the tactics being employed. I look at Chelsea’s cut throat decision making and I’m glad we are a different entity, but also with envy that they were able to overcome the sentiment and get themselves a world class manager. It’s difficult not to ask “what if” we did the same, and infuriating nights like last night add fuel to that fire
posted on 3/11/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
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Ronaldo had a header in the first half he should have done better with. McT had a shot deflected off the post and Shaw had a volley he hit into the ground and over the bar. All in the first half.
AWB had a good chance in the second half and his shot hit Greenwood in the back. Beekers made himself a difficult one right at the death.
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Fernandes had a shot on goal at the near post, but that was more of a half chance. Greenwood also hit the post, but I think he was offside (was distracted at the time).
posted on 3/11/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 6 minutes ago
Bloodred, I never set out my own criteria, just that deflected or long range shots are not typically defined as clear cut chances.
If Zapata squares the ball with his head - long before it falls to volley height and therefore long before Bailly is able to intervene - to the other Atalanta player (can’t recall whom), it looks a definite goal. It is clear cut in that for a few moments, Zapata is 8-10 yards out in the dead centre of our goal with nobody in sight. His hesitation allows Bailly back in, but if he is active prior to waiting for the ball to fall, they should score. Hell, he could even wait for the ball to fall to feet and then square it, as Bailly has made his decision that he’s going to attempt the last ditch block (he has no other choice).
https://youtu.be/MERiWVq4JGE
2:20 in that ^
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OK, whatever. I disagree but can't really be bothered to argue this point. But if your reasoning is that Atalanta deserved to win because they perhaps had one more chance than us which they could have scored but weren't able to, it isn't really a great argument is it?
posted on 3/11/21
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 6 minutes ago
Bloodred, I never set out my own criteria, just that deflected or long range shots are not typically defined as clear cut chances.
If Zapata squares the ball with his head - long before it falls to volley height and therefore long before Bailly is able to intervene - to the other Atalanta player (can’t recall whom), it looks a definite goal. It is clear cut in that for a few moments, Zapata is 8-10 yards out in the dead centre of our goal with nobody in sight. His hesitation allows Bailly back in, but if he is active prior to waiting for the ball to fall, they should score. Hell, he could even wait for the ball to fall to feet and then square it, as Bailly has made his decision that he’s going to attempt the last ditch block (he has no other choice).
https://youtu.be/MERiWVq4JGE
2:20 in that ^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, whatever. I disagree but can't really be bothered to argue this point. But if your reasoning is that Atalanta deserved to win because they perhaps had one more chance than us which they could have scored but weren't able to, it isn't really a great argument is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how old are you? Seems counter-intuitive when visiting a forum designed to facilitate debate.
My argument was that we didn’t deserve the draw we managed to get in the end based on performances over the course of the game. A missed, clear cut chance like that is not definitive in that regard, but helps to corroborate the argument.
I’m not so stubborn as to have complete inertia in my stance, but offering alternatives - like some of the other guys did we stats and our own clear cut chances - seems like a more fitting response on a debate forum than just saying “whatever” like a teenager whose just been peeled away from his television.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 15 minutes ago
For the record, I’m not one of these who wants us to lose because they’re Ole-out or something. I celebrated Ronny’s second like nobody’s business and always will, irrespective of my feelings towards individuals at the club.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night. We were utter pants. At the very least, in the first game against them, we created chance after chance after chance - in both halves - in last night’s game, I think we created one truly clear cut chance to their three. A side sitting 5th in a poor Serie A league who are hugely reliant on the first 11 as opposed to having the luxury of a vastly talented squad.
If we are to have aspirations of silverware, performances like last night can’t be tolerated as a norm. One offs, of course, but this isn’t a one-off.
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It's not about being positive - its just giving an honest opinion. We weren't lucky to win last night. We had just as food if not better chances than Atalanta. A draw was a fair result. That doesn't mean we are happy with the performance or result. But there has been a lot of hyperbole the last few weeks when we have come from behind to get results, even though in most cases we have deserved that result.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Call it luck or call it CR7, no way we deserved anything from the game.
….
Sorry but this just is t true.
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Please feel free to point out some clear cut chances we created for ourselves - over and above that of the opposition - and I’ll happily eat my words.
Even our second was by no means a “clear cut chance”. The first was excellent and seemingly came out of nowhere. Other than that, I’m struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronaldo had a header in the first half he should have done better with. McT had a shot deflected off the post and Shaw had a volley he hit into the ground and over the bar. All in the first half.
AWB had a good chance in the second half and his shot hit Greenwood in the back. Beekers made himself a difficult one right at the death.
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Fernandes had a shot on goal at the near post, but that was more of a half chance. Greenwood also hit the post, but I think he was offside (was distracted at the time).
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I think the Bruno one was the shot / cross that AWB put him through for. Again, sloppy ball from the provider, otherwise we’d have had a decent chance on our hands.
Mason was offside but yeah, totally agree that would’ve been a clear cut chance if he’d have been on
posted on 3/11/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 15 minutes ago
For the record, I’m not one of these who wants us to lose because they’re Ole-out or something. I celebrated Ronny’s second like nobody’s business and always will, irrespective of my feelings towards individuals at the club.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night. We were utter pants. At the very least, in the first game against them, we created chance after chance after chance - in both halves - in last night’s game, I think we created one truly clear cut chance to their three. A side sitting 5th in a poor Serie A league who are hugely reliant on the first 11 as opposed to having the luxury of a vastly talented squad.
If we are to have aspirations of silverware, performances like last night can’t be tolerated as a norm. One offs, of course, but this isn’t a one-off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about being positive - its just giving an honest opinion. We weren't lucky to win last night. We had just as food if not better chances than Atalanta. A draw was a fair result. That doesn't mean we are happy with the performance or result. But there has been a lot of hyperbole the last few weeks when we have come from behind to get results, even though in most cases we have deserved that result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% deserved to come back in the first game and win, no doubt about that. Having watched last night’s game (and after this debate, the highlights about 10 times 😂) I just don’t agree we deserved a draw.
People disagree though, and I can see I’m in the minority on this particular thread in thinking that we didn’t deserve the draw. Maybe I’m being particularly harsh given my affinity to United or given the way of the winds at the moment, but it’s just the way I saw the game.
Makes me worried for City at the weekend, but here’s to hoping!
posted on 3/11/21
My argument was that we didn’t deserve the dra
….
You have not argued your case though. All you have done is come up with some chances they had which equate to the same amount as the ones we had.
Then you used some whataboutery for another chance that didn’t happen because of good defending and have tried to diss the chances we had.
The stats do not lie in this game. We both had 4 shots on target. We had 6 % more possession. We also had 3 more shots at goal than they did. They had 4 more corners than us.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 15 minutes ago
For the record, I’m not one of these who wants us to lose because they’re Ole-out or something. I celebrated Ronny’s second like nobody’s business and always will, irrespective of my feelings towards individuals at the club.
I just don’t know how you can all be quasi-satisfied with that performance last night. We were utter pants. At the very least, in the first game against them, we created chance after chance after chance - in both halves - in last night’s game, I think we created one truly clear cut chance to their three. A side sitting 5th in a poor Serie A league who are hugely reliant on the first 11 as opposed to having the luxury of a vastly talented squad.
If we are to have aspirations of silverware, performances like last night can’t be tolerated as a norm. One offs, of course, but this isn’t a one-off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about being positive - its just giving an honest opinion. We weren't lucky to win last night. We had just as food if not better chances than Atalanta. A draw was a fair result. That doesn't mean we are happy with the performance or result. But there has been a lot of hyperbole the last few weeks when we have come from behind to get results, even though in most cases we have deserved that result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% deserved to come back in the first game and win, no doubt about that. Having watched last night’s game (and after this debate, the highlights about 10 times 😂) I just don’t agree we deserved a draw.
People disagree though, and I can see I’m in the minority on this particular thread in thinking that we didn’t deserve the draw. Maybe I’m being particularly harsh given my affinity to United or given the way of the winds at the moment, but it’s just the way I saw the game.
Makes me worried for City at the weekend, but here’s to hoping!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was a close game and if we had lost than we couldn't really have complained. To be fair, both of their goals came from errors. De Gea should have saved the first and come out for the second. Even if he hadn't come off his line our defenders should have dealt with it instead of called for the offside.
posted on 3/11/21
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 6 minutes ago
Bloodred, I never set out my own criteria, just that deflected or long range shots are not typically defined as clear cut chances.
If Zapata squares the ball with his head - long before it falls to volley height and therefore long before Bailly is able to intervene - to the other Atalanta player (can’t recall whom), it looks a definite goal. It is clear cut in that for a few moments, Zapata is 8-10 yards out in the dead centre of our goal with nobody in sight. His hesitation allows Bailly back in, but if he is active prior to waiting for the ball to fall, they should score. Hell, he could even wait for the ball to fall to feet and then square it, as Bailly has made his decision that he’s going to attempt the last ditch block (he has no other choice).
https://youtu.be/MERiWVq4JGE
2:20 in that ^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, whatever. I disagree but can't really be bothered to argue this point. But if your reasoning is that Atalanta deserved to win because they perhaps had one more chance than us which they could have scored but weren't able to, it isn't really a great argument is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And how old are you? Seems counter-intuitive when visiting a forum designed to facilitate debate.
My argument was that we didn’t deserve the draw we managed to get in the end based on performances over the course of the game. A missed, clear cut chance like that is not definitive in that regard, but helps to corroborate the argument.
I’m not so stubborn as to have complete inertia in my stance, but offering alternatives - like some of the other guys did we stats and our own clear cut chances - seems like a more fitting response on a debate forum than just saying “whatever” like a teenager whose just been peeled away from his television.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The 'debate' you are having is a pretty pointless one though. All you are basically doing is saying Atalanta deserved to win because Bailly blocked a close range shot. If Atalanta couldn't make that chance count then its poor from them. It isn't like they peppered our goal and dominated possession for 90 minutes is it? It was a pretty even game in which, subjectively, one team might have made one or two more 'clear cut' chances than the other.
I'm not going to sit here and write paragraphs as to whether Zapata's blocked shot was a clear cut chance or not - I've given my view on it. If my use of 'whatever' offends you so much then whatever, I'll take it back.
posted on 3/11/21
I have argued my case in that they had 3 clear cut chances to our 1. 3 > 1.
The “whataboutery” is certainly a misused term in this regard as the clear cut chance definitely did happen. To our benefit, Zapata didn’t do better with it, but a player’s inability to convert a chance does not render that chance revoked.
Finally, you’d have thought a United fan would’ve learnt from the Moyes & LvG days that you cannot rely on post-match stats alone to ascertain an accurate picture of how the game went. I, along with a few dozen others watching last night, thought we were fortunate to get the draw.
You don’t have to agree with that, and I’ll refrain from the sort of disparaging you seem to revert to, but that’s my opinion on the game.
posted on 3/11/21
I think a draw was a fair enough result in the end. I felt we were lucky to an extent in that we had a long time to come back and created eff all of note until the equaliser.
Having said that, there was nothing stopping Atalanta from trying to kill the game, which they didn't. Based on the overall balance of the game and general lack of quality from both sides, I don't think either team really deserved to win.
What was more concerning was how awful we were in possession, the lack of creativity and the constant lapses in concentration. If we don't start doing the basics right we are going to have quite a few poor results to come, in the next month at least.
posted on 3/11/21
It was a close game and I accept that the debate isn’t really relevant because the facts are facts - we drew.
I didn’t come on here to debate the deservedness of it so intently, to be honest, but I accept someone’s right to challenge my opinion and vice versa. Goes to show why I stick to commenting on the movies threads as opposed to these!
My dismay at our recent performances - Spurs aside - has probably spilled over into this, so I shall bid you all a very good day and get back to pretending to work
posted on 3/11/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 3/11/21
Theoretically, yes, but you would have said that about they playing Palace at home or Spurs away. Sometimes it's the fight in the dog that's more important, if we're up for it we could do alright
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