You’d think so. United have done a pretty good job of keeping the in-house issues over it under wraps. But something as big as that would cause any group big problems. Especially when it comes to a group of people from different and diverse backgrounds.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ronaldo isn’t the problem. He is just one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure. But where does this problem rank amongst our long list of problems. That's the crux of my query really.
For me it's way down the list. Way, way down.
I keep banging on about 2005/2006 era with RvN, I think if we were anywhere near that then Ronaldo would be towards the top, if not topping the list but at the moment I'd put this problem at the same level as De Gea - it's not right long-term even more so under ETH but it shouldn't really be spoken about before so many other problems are sorted.
I'd probably rather
Garnacho Ronaldo Sancho
and I just couldn't rely on Martial for an entire season - he's another Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but how many of those problems are a direct consequence of Ronaldo being there. You say it's a not a priority to solve the issue with him as there are deeper squad issues but what if Ronaldo is causing those secondary squad problems. What if letting him go allows the current squad to breathe again with a sort of rebirth? I'm convinced that once you get rid of him, those players you'd consider to be below par will stop being so.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 27 seconds ago
You’d think so. United have done a pretty good job of keeping the in-house issues over it under wraps. But something as big as that would cause any group big problems. Especially when it comes to a group of people from different and diverse backgrounds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And given his age, you’d assume that he was quite tight with several members of the squad.
I also wonder what the hell is going on with Rashy? Is it peaking too early? Making it big too soon? I heard he broke up with gf - is it that?
Our club is pretty rotten but christ him and Bruno have fallen off a cliff.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ronaldo isn’t the problem. He is just one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure. But where does this problem rank amongst our long list of problems. That's the crux of my query really.
For me it's way down the list. Way, way down.
I keep banging on about 2005/2006 era with RvN, I think if we were anywhere near that then Ronaldo would be towards the top, if not topping the list but at the moment I'd put this problem at the same level as De Gea - it's not right long-term even more so under ETH but it shouldn't really be spoken about before so many other problems are sorted.
I'd probably rather
Garnacho Ronaldo Sancho
and I just couldn't rely on Martial for an entire season - he's another Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but how many of those problems are a direct consequence of Ronaldo being there. You say it's a not a priority to solve the issue with him as there are deeper squad issues but what if Ronaldo is causing those secondary squad problems. What if letting him go allows the current squad to breathe again with a sort of rebirth? I'm convinced that once you get rid of him, those players you'd consider to be below par will stop being so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think Ronaldo is causing our midfield to be as bad as it is nor our defence.
This team, this group of players have done this time and time again. Long before Ronaldo came back. Just because they underperformed even further after he joined us doesn’t mean he is a direct negative influence.
I mean - Fred & McTominay, Maguire, Shaw, AWB…..
I think his physical problems have been a clear issue. But it’s obviously a mental one for him as well. I just think it’s taken its toll on him. It’s a mentally flakey group of players.
Keane and Neville were talking about having the right temperament to deal with the pressure of being a United player. It’s clear that’s lacking with this group of players. But we’ve failed a lot of these younger lads but not giving them the support of the right senior characters.
People always talk about getting a young group of players to peak together like it’s a good, or even successful strategy. But there’s not a chance any of those young gems under Fergie become the players they did without the top characters already at the club taking the pressure off.
It’s why United were much more mentally resilient team than some of the talented Emirates era ones that Wenger built.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
I think his physical problems have been a clear issue. But it’s obviously a mental one for him as well. I just think it’s taken its toll on him. It’s a mentally flakey group of players.
Keane and Neville were talking about having the right temperament to deal with the pressure of being a United player. It’s clear that’s lacking with this group of players. But we’ve failed a lot of these younger lads but not giving them the support of the right senior characters.
People always talk about getting a young group of players to peak together like it’s a good, or even successful strategy. But there’s not a chance any of those young gems under Fergie become the players they did without the top characters already at the club taking the pressure off.
It’s why United were much more mentally resilient team than some of the talented Emirates era ones that Wenger built.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
there is also an argument that all the youths under fergie came up through the ranks of a club that had that identity and mentality that fergie had built up, Id argue they already that "character" before they stepped into the first team.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ronaldo isn’t the problem. He is just one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure. But where does this problem rank amongst our long list of problems. That's the crux of my query really.
For me it's way down the list. Way, way down.
I keep banging on about 2005/2006 era with RvN, I think if we were anywhere near that then Ronaldo would be towards the top, if not topping the list but at the moment I'd put this problem at the same level as De Gea - it's not right long-term even more so under ETH but it shouldn't really be spoken about before so many other problems are sorted.
I'd probably rather
Garnacho Ronaldo Sancho
and I just couldn't rely on Martial for an entire season - he's another Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but how many of those problems are a direct consequence of Ronaldo being there. You say it's a not a priority to solve the issue with him as there are deeper squad issues but what if Ronaldo is causing those secondary squad problems. What if letting him go allows the current squad to breathe again with a sort of rebirth? I'm convinced that once you get rid of him, those players you'd consider to be below par will stop being so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think Ronaldo is causing our midfield to be as bad as it is nor our defence.
This team, this group of players have done this time and time again. Long before Ronaldo came back. Just because they underperformed even further after he joined us doesn’t mean he is a direct negative influence.
I mean - Fred & McTominay, Maguire, Shaw, AWB…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I think it's a mixture. You do have some players like McTominay, Fred and Dalot, who, no matter who the manager is or who they're playing with, will always be poor. They're just not premium players. Simple as that. When you consider Scholes, Keane and Carrick held down those roles, there's no doubt you're going through a stinking period regarding midfield talent. But, and it's a big but, there are some truly top players in that squad. Bruno was close to player of the year in his first year, Sancho tore the Bundesliga to shreds, Rashford was a great player until a couple of years ago. Shaw, at his best, starts for England. De Gea is still up there as one of the best in the league. You have so many good players all playing beneath themselves. I think morale is at rock bottom, way worse than it was a couple of years ago and I think Ronaldo is the causative factor. You might say that it shouldn't affect other areas of the pitch but why not? They're all in the same squad and disharmony spreads like wildfire. Then you've also got the difficulty in Maguire being captain being clearly undermined by Ronaldo. It's very difficult for Harry to lay down the law on a man considered to be one of the greatest of all time. It's not easy to be captain whilst that shadow looms large.
It just sounds like a bleak atmosphere all round. His presence will affect everyone. He could have been the type of elder statesmen to encourage and improve players but he's not. He's just constantly on the whine that they're not as good as he is.Good luck getting the best of the squad when they're being kicked to the ground like that.
I also think that Fergie had a huge say in who was brought in player and staff wise. And fergie was always one for chosing a player with the right mentality before their talent. and as soon as he seen that character starting to change, regardless of ability he got rid.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
I think his physical problems have been a clear issue. But it’s obviously a mental one for him as well. I just think it’s taken its toll on him. It’s a mentally flakey group of players.
Keane and Neville were talking about having the right temperament to deal with the pressure of being a United player. It’s clear that’s lacking with this group of players. But we’ve failed a lot of these younger lads but not giving them the support of the right senior characters.
People always talk about getting a young group of players to peak together like it’s a good, or even successful strategy. But there’s not a chance any of those young gems under Fergie become the players they did without the top characters already at the club taking the pressure off.
It’s why United were much more mentally resilient team than some of the talented Emirates era ones that Wenger built.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
there is also an argument that all the youths under fergie came up through the ranks of a club that had that identity and mentality that fergie had built up, Id argue they already that "character" before they stepped into the first team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But it’s also something that develops by years of first team football, playing under said manager with many of these players that were brought in from outside the club.
Hansen got ripped for saying you don’t win anything with kids. But he was actually right, and we didn’t anyway. Those senior leaders were integral to the success of that team. You only have to listen to what these players have said after retirement about the senior players they played with and how much they helped them.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ronaldo isn’t the problem. He is just one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure. But where does this problem rank amongst our long list of problems. That's the crux of my query really.
For me it's way down the list. Way, way down.
I keep banging on about 2005/2006 era with RvN, I think if we were anywhere near that then Ronaldo would be towards the top, if not topping the list but at the moment I'd put this problem at the same level as De Gea - it's not right long-term even more so under ETH but it shouldn't really be spoken about before so many other problems are sorted.
I'd probably rather
Garnacho Ronaldo Sancho
and I just couldn't rely on Martial for an entire season - he's another Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but how many of those problems are a direct consequence of Ronaldo being there. You say it's a not a priority to solve the issue with him as there are deeper squad issues but what if Ronaldo is causing those secondary squad problems. What if letting him go allows the current squad to breathe again with a sort of rebirth? I'm convinced that once you get rid of him, those players you'd consider to be below par will stop being so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think Ronaldo is causing our midfield to be as bad as it is nor our defence.
This team, this group of players have done this time and time again. Long before Ronaldo came back. Just because they underperformed even further after he joined us doesn’t mean he is a direct negative influence.
I mean - Fred & McTominay, Maguire, Shaw, AWB…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I think it's a mixture. You do have some players like McTominay, Fred and Dalot, who, no matter who the manager is or who they're playing with, will always be poor. They're just not premium players. Simple as that. When you consider Scholes, Keane and Carrick held down those roles, there's no doubt you're going through a stinking period regarding midfield talent. But, and it's a big but, there are some truly top players in that squad. Bruno was close to player of the year in his first year, Sancho tore the Bundesliga to shreds, Rashford was a great player until a couple of years ago. Shaw, at his best, starts for England. De Gea is still up there as one of the best in the league. You have so many good players all playing beneath themselves. I think morale is at rock bottom, way worse than it was a couple of years ago and I think Ronaldo is the causative factor. You might say that it shouldn't affect other areas of the pitch but why not? They're all in the same squad and disharmony spreads like wildfire. Then you've also got the difficulty in Maguire being captain being clearly undermined by Ronaldo. It's very difficult for Harry to lay down the law on a man considered to be one of the greatest of all time. It's not easy to be captain whilst that shadow looms large.
It just sounds like a bleak atmosphere all round. His presence will affect everyone. He could have been the type of elder statesmen to encourage and improve players but he's not. He's just constantly on the whine that they're not as good as he is.Good luck getting the best of the squad when they're being kicked to the ground like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is most of those players were already performing badly before Ronaldo (Sancho aside), this is the whole point.
Martial - waste of skin. We’ve had him for like 7 years now
Rashford - complete shadow of his former self (again before Ronaldo returned)
Shaw - has had a couple of periods of very good performances but majority poor
Maguire - some very poor performances and very few good ones and if he can’t handle Ronaldo being at the the club then he shouldn’t be captain with such little character
Fred & McTominay - don’t need to add to that
Ultimately as Keano keeps saying - too many of our players lack character, they cannot handle playing for United. We reverted back to type yesterday and I bet ETH was a little shocked.
Hopefully his militant style will sort us out over the next two years.
Thing is, if Ronaldo’s mere presence at the club is enough to to be the cause of such a decline then these players have no place being at the club anyway.
But it’s booollocks anyway. Because anyone that was paying attention to our performances under Ole would tell you the issues were massive anyway and a collapse was never far from being around the corner - we’d already seen it numerous times under Mourinho and Ole.
A player who wants to leave the club is a problem... no matter how much lipstick you put on this pig!
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Thing is, if Ronaldo’s mere presence at the club is enough to to be the cause of such a decline then these players have no place being at the club anyway.
But it’s booollocks anyway. Because anyone that was paying attention to our performances under Ole would tell you the issues were massive anyway and a collapse was never far from being around the corner - we’d already seen it numerous times under Mourinho and Ole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. We've essentially had the same issues time and time again for the last ten years.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
I think his physical problems have been a clear issue. But it’s obviously a mental one for him as well. I just think it’s taken its toll on him. It’s a mentally flakey group of players.
Keane and Neville were talking about having the right temperament to deal with the pressure of being a United player. It’s clear that’s lacking with this group of players. But we’ve failed a lot of these younger lads but not giving them the support of the right senior characters.
People always talk about getting a young group of players to peak together like it’s a good, or even successful strategy. But there’s not a chance any of those young gems under Fergie become the players they did without the top characters already at the club taking the pressure off.
It’s why United were much more mentally resilient team than some of the talented Emirates era ones that Wenger built.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
there is also an argument that all the youths under fergie came up through the ranks of a club that had that identity and mentality that fergie had built up, Id argue they already that "character" before they stepped into the first team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But it’s also something that develops by years of first team football, playing under said manager with many of these players that were brought in from outside the club.
Hansen got ripped for saying you don’t win anything with kids. But he was actually right, and we didn’t anyway. Those senior leaders were integral to the success of that team. You only have to listen to what these players have said after retirement about the senior players they played with and how much they helped them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
there will be elements of both.... the training under fergie was fierce ... very similar to the way we were (rangers) under walter smith. train like you play.
losing a match in training was the same as losing on matchday to these guys.
I cant imagine there has been to many groups like that after he has left. Fergie had a team of guys that could play as well as others, but they were a bunch of nasty bassas when they had to be. the old quote of ... if you aint having a good game then at least make sure you opposite number doesnt!
dont see that nasty streak anywhere in this team.
It’s been a ticking time bomb for a long term. And it’s neglect from the top that has allowed it to fester.
Setting aside the mental side and Ronaldo for one second. You only have to look at the fitness levels of the team and the amount of injuries we get. It’s criminal for as supposed big club to allow that to happen. And you won’t achieve fack all if you can’t keep your squad fit. You only have to look at how this brilliant Liverpool side looked human again when they got loads of injuries. We’ve been getting injuries like that every year for a decade nearly.
Haaland hardly touched the ball yesterday but scored two goals from being where he was needed at the time very effectively, one of the punters said he just has to be patient as the rest of the team will say don’t worry we will find you.
Our problem is the team wouldn’t be able to find Haaland any easier than they can Ronaldo, our control in midfield is non existent and our crosses into the box abysmal the best one yesterday was from Ronaldo to Rashford.
Do we have problems bigger than Ronaldo ?
I think the first half yesterday summed the answer up very well, I was at the game and it was amazing to see how much quicker and stronger Brighton players were than ours plus their transitional play and awareness was on another planet, the 37 year old on the bench May not be the answer to our problems but my god he isn’t responsible for McFred, Shaw.Dalot, Rash and Bruno being total crap these days and he never has been.
That’s not true actually because Haaland isn’t static like Ronaldo. It does cause us issues in transition, even if there are clearly issues behind the striker.
Satnav
Sorry at not getting back but had some work to do.
The Ronaldo problem is one of them that should be addressed now. He does not want to be here so get rid of him. If he wants to leave then he will be happy to have his contract cancelled.
Brilliantly put.
I have been at the thick end of this argument and some I am happy to read and listen. The push for Martial, Rashford and Sancho based on sweet all is what I won't accept. Just look at Rashford and Sancho yesterday, was the lad Sancho even playing. I fear we have bought Kagawa 2.0 here
The Utd board is now officially funnier than the Spurs board
comment by Franko Cantona 🏆 for ego only (U22187)
posted 14 minutes ago
Haaland hardly touched the ball yesterday but scored two goals from being where he was needed at the time very effectively, one of the punters said he just has to be patient as the rest of the team will say don’t worry we will find you.
Our problem is the team wouldn’t be able to find Haaland any easier than they can Ronaldo, our control in midfield is non existent and our crosses into the box abysmal the best one yesterday was from Ronaldo to Rashford.
Do we have problems bigger than Ronaldo ?
I think the first half yesterday summed the answer up very well, I was at the game and it was amazing to see how much quicker and stronger Brighton players were than ours plus their transitional play and awareness was on another planet, the 37 year old on the bench May not be the answer to our problems but my god he isn’t responsible for McFred, Shaw.Dalot, Rash and Bruno being total crap these days and he never has been.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Graham Potter is prob the most underrated manager in the EPL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VvVg19TtDs
Take from Souness. He said he would've travelled around the globe to convince Ronaldo to stay
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 7 minutes ago
That’s not true actually because Haaland isn’t static like Ronaldo. It does cause us issues in transition, even if there are clearly issues behind the striker.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronaldo isn’t static though even ETH said he improved us in the second half, it’s just an agenda on here to blame Ronaldo for everything, we have had the same real problems in the team for years.
I really don’t care if Ronaldo goes or stays provided the only fall back isn’t Martial but until our bunch of pansies can actually compete in a man’s football match nothing is going to change it will just be another individual to pick on, most of our feckers don’t even deserve to share a pitch with a player like Ronaldo but don’t worry he will gone soon and the mighty Martial can prove me wrong, welbeck amazingly looked twice the player Martial has ever been yesterday
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 1 minute ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VvVg19TtDs
Take from Souness. He said he would've travelled around the globe to convince Ronaldo to stay
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no wonder he is a liverpool man !!
He clearly is static. He’s one of the laziest players in football.
Sign in if you want to comment
Ronaldo, the problem
Page 2 of 4
posted on 8/8/22
You’d think so. United have done a pretty good job of keeping the in-house issues over it under wraps. But something as big as that would cause any group big problems. Especially when it comes to a group of people from different and diverse backgrounds.
posted on 8/8/22
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ronaldo isn’t the problem. He is just one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure. But where does this problem rank amongst our long list of problems. That's the crux of my query really.
For me it's way down the list. Way, way down.
I keep banging on about 2005/2006 era with RvN, I think if we were anywhere near that then Ronaldo would be towards the top, if not topping the list but at the moment I'd put this problem at the same level as De Gea - it's not right long-term even more so under ETH but it shouldn't really be spoken about before so many other problems are sorted.
I'd probably rather
Garnacho Ronaldo Sancho
and I just couldn't rely on Martial for an entire season - he's another Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but how many of those problems are a direct consequence of Ronaldo being there. You say it's a not a priority to solve the issue with him as there are deeper squad issues but what if Ronaldo is causing those secondary squad problems. What if letting him go allows the current squad to breathe again with a sort of rebirth? I'm convinced that once you get rid of him, those players you'd consider to be below par will stop being so.
posted on 8/8/22
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 27 seconds ago
You’d think so. United have done a pretty good job of keeping the in-house issues over it under wraps. But something as big as that would cause any group big problems. Especially when it comes to a group of people from different and diverse backgrounds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And given his age, you’d assume that he was quite tight with several members of the squad.
I also wonder what the hell is going on with Rashy? Is it peaking too early? Making it big too soon? I heard he broke up with gf - is it that?
Our club is pretty rotten but christ him and Bruno have fallen off a cliff.
posted on 8/8/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ronaldo isn’t the problem. He is just one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure. But where does this problem rank amongst our long list of problems. That's the crux of my query really.
For me it's way down the list. Way, way down.
I keep banging on about 2005/2006 era with RvN, I think if we were anywhere near that then Ronaldo would be towards the top, if not topping the list but at the moment I'd put this problem at the same level as De Gea - it's not right long-term even more so under ETH but it shouldn't really be spoken about before so many other problems are sorted.
I'd probably rather
Garnacho Ronaldo Sancho
and I just couldn't rely on Martial for an entire season - he's another Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but how many of those problems are a direct consequence of Ronaldo being there. You say it's a not a priority to solve the issue with him as there are deeper squad issues but what if Ronaldo is causing those secondary squad problems. What if letting him go allows the current squad to breathe again with a sort of rebirth? I'm convinced that once you get rid of him, those players you'd consider to be below par will stop being so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think Ronaldo is causing our midfield to be as bad as it is nor our defence.
This team, this group of players have done this time and time again. Long before Ronaldo came back. Just because they underperformed even further after he joined us doesn’t mean he is a direct negative influence.
I mean - Fred & McTominay, Maguire, Shaw, AWB…..
posted on 8/8/22
I think his physical problems have been a clear issue. But it’s obviously a mental one for him as well. I just think it’s taken its toll on him. It’s a mentally flakey group of players.
Keane and Neville were talking about having the right temperament to deal with the pressure of being a United player. It’s clear that’s lacking with this group of players. But we’ve failed a lot of these younger lads but not giving them the support of the right senior characters.
People always talk about getting a young group of players to peak together like it’s a good, or even successful strategy. But there’s not a chance any of those young gems under Fergie become the players they did without the top characters already at the club taking the pressure off.
It’s why United were much more mentally resilient team than some of the talented Emirates era ones that Wenger built.
posted on 8/8/22
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
I think his physical problems have been a clear issue. But it’s obviously a mental one for him as well. I just think it’s taken its toll on him. It’s a mentally flakey group of players.
Keane and Neville were talking about having the right temperament to deal with the pressure of being a United player. It’s clear that’s lacking with this group of players. But we’ve failed a lot of these younger lads but not giving them the support of the right senior characters.
People always talk about getting a young group of players to peak together like it’s a good, or even successful strategy. But there’s not a chance any of those young gems under Fergie become the players they did without the top characters already at the club taking the pressure off.
It’s why United were much more mentally resilient team than some of the talented Emirates era ones that Wenger built.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
there is also an argument that all the youths under fergie came up through the ranks of a club that had that identity and mentality that fergie had built up, Id argue they already that "character" before they stepped into the first team.
posted on 8/8/22
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ronaldo isn’t the problem. He is just one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure. But where does this problem rank amongst our long list of problems. That's the crux of my query really.
For me it's way down the list. Way, way down.
I keep banging on about 2005/2006 era with RvN, I think if we were anywhere near that then Ronaldo would be towards the top, if not topping the list but at the moment I'd put this problem at the same level as De Gea - it's not right long-term even more so under ETH but it shouldn't really be spoken about before so many other problems are sorted.
I'd probably rather
Garnacho Ronaldo Sancho
and I just couldn't rely on Martial for an entire season - he's another Pogba.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but how many of those problems are a direct consequence of Ronaldo being there. You say it's a not a priority to solve the issue with him as there are deeper squad issues but what if Ronaldo is causing those secondary squad problems. What if letting him go allows the current squad to breathe again with a sort of rebirth? I'm convinced that once you get rid of him, those players you'd consider to be below par will stop being so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think Ronaldo is causing our midfield to be as bad as it is nor our defence.
This team, this group of players have done this time and time again. Long before Ronaldo came back. Just because they underperformed even further after he joined us doesn’t mean he is a direct negative influence.
I mean - Fred & McTominay, Maguire, Shaw, AWB…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I think it's a mixture. You do have some players like McTominay, Fred and Dalot, who, no matter who the manager is or who they're playing with, will always be poor. They're just not premium players. Simple as that. When you consider Scholes, Keane and Carrick held down those roles, there's no doubt you're going through a stinking period regarding midfield talent. But, and it's a big but, there are some truly top players in that squad. Bruno was close to player of the year in his first year, Sancho tore the Bundesliga to shreds, Rashford was a great player until a couple of years ago. Shaw, at his best, starts for England. De Gea is still up there as one of the best in the league. You have so many good players all playing beneath themselves. I think morale is at rock bottom, way worse than it was a couple of years ago and I think Ronaldo is the causative factor. You might say that it shouldn't affect other areas of the pitch but why not? They're all in the same squad and disharmony spreads like wildfire. Then you've also got the difficulty in Maguire being captain being clearly undermined by Ronaldo. It's very difficult for Harry to lay down the law on a man considered to be one of the greatest of all time. It's not easy to be captain whilst that shadow looms large.
It just sounds like a bleak atmosphere all round. His presence will affect everyone. He could have been the type of elder statesmen to encourage and improve players but he's not. He's just constantly on the whine that they're not as good as he is.Good luck getting the best of the squad when they're being kicked to the ground like that.
posted on 8/8/22
I also think that Fergie had a huge say in who was brought in player and staff wise. And fergie was always one for chosing a player with the right mentality before their talent. and as soon as he seen that character starting to change, regardless of ability he got rid.
posted on 8/8/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
I think his physical problems have been a clear issue. But it’s obviously a mental one for him as well. I just think it’s taken its toll on him. It’s a mentally flakey group of players.
Keane and Neville were talking about having the right temperament to deal with the pressure of being a United player. It’s clear that’s lacking with this group of players. But we’ve failed a lot of these younger lads but not giving them the support of the right senior characters.
People always talk about getting a young group of players to peak together like it’s a good, or even successful strategy. But there’s not a chance any of those young gems under Fergie become the players they did without the top characters already at the club taking the pressure off.
It’s why United were much more mentally resilient team than some of the talented Emirates era ones that Wenger built.
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there is also an argument that all the youths under fergie came up through the ranks of a club that had that identity and mentality that fergie had built up, Id argue they already that "character" before they stepped into the first team.
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To an extent, yes. But it’s also something that develops by years of first team football, playing under said manager with many of these players that were brought in from outside the club.
Hansen got ripped for saying you don’t win anything with kids. But he was actually right, and we didn’t anyway. Those senior leaders were integral to the success of that team. You only have to listen to what these players have said after retirement about the senior players they played with and how much they helped them.
posted on 8/8/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Ronaldo isn’t the problem. He is just one of them.
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Sure. But where does this problem rank amongst our long list of problems. That's the crux of my query really.
For me it's way down the list. Way, way down.
I keep banging on about 2005/2006 era with RvN, I think if we were anywhere near that then Ronaldo would be towards the top, if not topping the list but at the moment I'd put this problem at the same level as De Gea - it's not right long-term even more so under ETH but it shouldn't really be spoken about before so many other problems are sorted.
I'd probably rather
Garnacho Ronaldo Sancho
and I just couldn't rely on Martial for an entire season - he's another Pogba.
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Yes, but how many of those problems are a direct consequence of Ronaldo being there. You say it's a not a priority to solve the issue with him as there are deeper squad issues but what if Ronaldo is causing those secondary squad problems. What if letting him go allows the current squad to breathe again with a sort of rebirth? I'm convinced that once you get rid of him, those players you'd consider to be below par will stop being so.
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I don’t think Ronaldo is causing our midfield to be as bad as it is nor our defence.
This team, this group of players have done this time and time again. Long before Ronaldo came back. Just because they underperformed even further after he joined us doesn’t mean he is a direct negative influence.
I mean - Fred & McTominay, Maguire, Shaw, AWB…..
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Okay, I think it's a mixture. You do have some players like McTominay, Fred and Dalot, who, no matter who the manager is or who they're playing with, will always be poor. They're just not premium players. Simple as that. When you consider Scholes, Keane and Carrick held down those roles, there's no doubt you're going through a stinking period regarding midfield talent. But, and it's a big but, there are some truly top players in that squad. Bruno was close to player of the year in his first year, Sancho tore the Bundesliga to shreds, Rashford was a great player until a couple of years ago. Shaw, at his best, starts for England. De Gea is still up there as one of the best in the league. You have so many good players all playing beneath themselves. I think morale is at rock bottom, way worse than it was a couple of years ago and I think Ronaldo is the causative factor. You might say that it shouldn't affect other areas of the pitch but why not? They're all in the same squad and disharmony spreads like wildfire. Then you've also got the difficulty in Maguire being captain being clearly undermined by Ronaldo. It's very difficult for Harry to lay down the law on a man considered to be one of the greatest of all time. It's not easy to be captain whilst that shadow looms large.
It just sounds like a bleak atmosphere all round. His presence will affect everyone. He could have been the type of elder statesmen to encourage and improve players but he's not. He's just constantly on the whine that they're not as good as he is.Good luck getting the best of the squad when they're being kicked to the ground like that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is most of those players were already performing badly before Ronaldo (Sancho aside), this is the whole point.
Martial - waste of skin. We’ve had him for like 7 years now
Rashford - complete shadow of his former self (again before Ronaldo returned)
Shaw - has had a couple of periods of very good performances but majority poor
Maguire - some very poor performances and very few good ones and if he can’t handle Ronaldo being at the the club then he shouldn’t be captain with such little character
Fred & McTominay - don’t need to add to that
Ultimately as Keano keeps saying - too many of our players lack character, they cannot handle playing for United. We reverted back to type yesterday and I bet ETH was a little shocked.
Hopefully his militant style will sort us out over the next two years.
posted on 8/8/22
Thing is, if Ronaldo’s mere presence at the club is enough to to be the cause of such a decline then these players have no place being at the club anyway.
But it’s booollocks anyway. Because anyone that was paying attention to our performances under Ole would tell you the issues were massive anyway and a collapse was never far from being around the corner - we’d already seen it numerous times under Mourinho and Ole.
posted on 8/8/22
A player who wants to leave the club is a problem... no matter how much lipstick you put on this pig!
posted on 8/8/22
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Thing is, if Ronaldo’s mere presence at the club is enough to to be the cause of such a decline then these players have no place being at the club anyway.
But it’s booollocks anyway. Because anyone that was paying attention to our performances under Ole would tell you the issues were massive anyway and a collapse was never far from being around the corner - we’d already seen it numerous times under Mourinho and Ole.
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Exactly. We've essentially had the same issues time and time again for the last ten years.
posted on 8/8/22
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
I think his physical problems have been a clear issue. But it’s obviously a mental one for him as well. I just think it’s taken its toll on him. It’s a mentally flakey group of players.
Keane and Neville were talking about having the right temperament to deal with the pressure of being a United player. It’s clear that’s lacking with this group of players. But we’ve failed a lot of these younger lads but not giving them the support of the right senior characters.
People always talk about getting a young group of players to peak together like it’s a good, or even successful strategy. But there’s not a chance any of those young gems under Fergie become the players they did without the top characters already at the club taking the pressure off.
It’s why United were much more mentally resilient team than some of the talented Emirates era ones that Wenger built.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
there is also an argument that all the youths under fergie came up through the ranks of a club that had that identity and mentality that fergie had built up, Id argue they already that "character" before they stepped into the first team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But it’s also something that develops by years of first team football, playing under said manager with many of these players that were brought in from outside the club.
Hansen got ripped for saying you don’t win anything with kids. But he was actually right, and we didn’t anyway. Those senior leaders were integral to the success of that team. You only have to listen to what these players have said after retirement about the senior players they played with and how much they helped them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
there will be elements of both.... the training under fergie was fierce ... very similar to the way we were (rangers) under walter smith. train like you play.
losing a match in training was the same as losing on matchday to these guys.
I cant imagine there has been to many groups like that after he has left. Fergie had a team of guys that could play as well as others, but they were a bunch of nasty bassas when they had to be. the old quote of ... if you aint having a good game then at least make sure you opposite number doesnt!
dont see that nasty streak anywhere in this team.
posted on 8/8/22
It’s been a ticking time bomb for a long term. And it’s neglect from the top that has allowed it to fester.
Setting aside the mental side and Ronaldo for one second. You only have to look at the fitness levels of the team and the amount of injuries we get. It’s criminal for as supposed big club to allow that to happen. And you won’t achieve fack all if you can’t keep your squad fit. You only have to look at how this brilliant Liverpool side looked human again when they got loads of injuries. We’ve been getting injuries like that every year for a decade nearly.
posted on 8/8/22
Haaland hardly touched the ball yesterday but scored two goals from being where he was needed at the time very effectively, one of the punters said he just has to be patient as the rest of the team will say don’t worry we will find you.
Our problem is the team wouldn’t be able to find Haaland any easier than they can Ronaldo, our control in midfield is non existent and our crosses into the box abysmal the best one yesterday was from Ronaldo to Rashford.
Do we have problems bigger than Ronaldo ?
I think the first half yesterday summed the answer up very well, I was at the game and it was amazing to see how much quicker and stronger Brighton players were than ours plus their transitional play and awareness was on another planet, the 37 year old on the bench May not be the answer to our problems but my god he isn’t responsible for McFred, Shaw.Dalot, Rash and Bruno being total crap these days and he never has been.
posted on 8/8/22
That’s not true actually because Haaland isn’t static like Ronaldo. It does cause us issues in transition, even if there are clearly issues behind the striker.
posted on 8/8/22
Satnav
Sorry at not getting back but had some work to do.
The Ronaldo problem is one of them that should be addressed now. He does not want to be here so get rid of him. If he wants to leave then he will be happy to have his contract cancelled.
posted on 8/8/22
Brilliantly put.
I have been at the thick end of this argument and some I am happy to read and listen. The push for Martial, Rashford and Sancho based on sweet all is what I won't accept. Just look at Rashford and Sancho yesterday, was the lad Sancho even playing. I fear we have bought Kagawa 2.0 here
posted on 8/8/22
The Utd board is now officially funnier than the Spurs board
posted on 8/8/22
comment by Franko Cantona 🏆 for ego only (U22187)
posted 14 minutes ago
Haaland hardly touched the ball yesterday but scored two goals from being where he was needed at the time very effectively, one of the punters said he just has to be patient as the rest of the team will say don’t worry we will find you.
Our problem is the team wouldn’t be able to find Haaland any easier than they can Ronaldo, our control in midfield is non existent and our crosses into the box abysmal the best one yesterday was from Ronaldo to Rashford.
Do we have problems bigger than Ronaldo ?
I think the first half yesterday summed the answer up very well, I was at the game and it was amazing to see how much quicker and stronger Brighton players were than ours plus their transitional play and awareness was on another planet, the 37 year old on the bench May not be the answer to our problems but my god he isn’t responsible for McFred, Shaw.Dalot, Rash and Bruno being total crap these days and he never has been.
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I think Graham Potter is prob the most underrated manager in the EPL.
posted on 8/8/22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VvVg19TtDs
Take from Souness. He said he would've travelled around the globe to convince Ronaldo to stay
posted on 8/8/22
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 7 minutes ago
That’s not true actually because Haaland isn’t static like Ronaldo. It does cause us issues in transition, even if there are clearly issues behind the striker.
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Ronaldo isn’t static though even ETH said he improved us in the second half, it’s just an agenda on here to blame Ronaldo for everything, we have had the same real problems in the team for years.
I really don’t care if Ronaldo goes or stays provided the only fall back isn’t Martial but until our bunch of pansies can actually compete in a man’s football match nothing is going to change it will just be another individual to pick on, most of our feckers don’t even deserve to share a pitch with a player like Ronaldo but don’t worry he will gone soon and the mighty Martial can prove me wrong, welbeck amazingly looked twice the player Martial has ever been yesterday
posted on 8/8/22
comment by scholayScholes (U13961)
posted 1 minute ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VvVg19TtDs
Take from Souness. He said he would've travelled around the globe to convince Ronaldo to stay
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no wonder he is a liverpool man !!
posted on 8/8/22
He clearly is static. He’s one of the laziest players in football.
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