Does truth matter anymore? Or are we now supposed to just tut at the dumb folks and hope they don’t get into (anymore) positions of power?
---------------------------------
I think we all need to start doing this to them

https://youtu.be/DDRwYrUeCoo?t=63

Brazenly repeating a proven lie is in vogue on the post-democratic right. Increasingly, core supporters are both entrenched and consuming information from post-truth media (which now, terrifyingly, spans a lot of mainstream outlets) so it's a viable strategy.

You can guarantee that most of the journalists and politicians riding the authoritarian train would have happily played by the rules of liberal democracy a decade ago. Goes to show that societal conditions and systems are more important than the characteristics of the individual agents.

I’m not sure some lockdowns were needed to the extent they were enforced.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Brazenly repeating a proven lie is in vogue on the post-democratic right. Increasingly, core supporters are both entrenched and consuming information from post-truth media (which now, terrifyingly, spans a lot of mainstream outlets) so it's a viable strategy.

You can guarantee that most of the journalists and politicians riding the authoritarian train would have happily played by the rules of liberal democracy a decade ago. Goes to show that societal conditions and systems are more important than the characteristics of the individual agents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly didn't understand a word of this. Sounds intelligent though

My favourite is when they pull out stats and claim not many people died compared to flu etc. Like ye but that was with lockdowns. Imagine if it had run rampant.

So awful to see Sunak using this technique, but not surprising really.

People had want to stamp their feet and say "we were right!", which means making lockdown into a black/white choice. For instance, everybody who didn't get an appointment/treatment, that was inevitably "because of lockdown". It's never that simple. The way through the pandemic was always going to be unpopular and unpleasant; I doubt there was ever some rosy pathway where most of us just got on with it without being affected.

Prof. Christina Pagel also explained how we ended up in lockdown not because the government "empowered scientists" but because they didn't listen to them in the early weeks of 2020.

I think the genie is out of the bottle now though. The smartest people have now found a perfect tool (internet/social media) to control the dumbest people.

You are now, seemingly, looking at a 30-40% minority that steadfastly believes everything that they consume about their political party and, most worryingly, dismiss anything they consume about their rival party or even anyone who says anything that goes against their party's line.

I don't really see a way out of this and things like AI and deep fakes will just add more mud to the waters.

comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 8 seconds ago
My favourite is when they pull out stats and claim not many people died compared to flu etc. Like ye but that was with lockdowns. Imagine if it had run rampant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This although not my favourite.

My favourite part is that people think it was made up.

comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 8 seconds ago
My favourite is when they pull out stats and claim not many people died compared to flu etc. Like ye but that was with lockdowns. Imagine if it had run rampant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This although not my favourite.

My favourite part is that people think it was made up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It did run rampant when sunak said "eat out to help out" then shortly after realised it was a pretty bad idea.

You are now, seemingly, looking at a 30-40% minority that steadfastly believes everything that they consume about their political party and, most worryingly, dismiss anything they consume about their rival party or even anyone who says anything that goes against their party's line.

----

That sounds an awful lot like something else..
...

Ahem... religion

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Simp (U2958)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think the genie is out of the bottle now though. The smartest people have now found a perfect tool (internet/social media) to control the dumbest people.

You are now, seemingly, looking at a 30-40% minority that steadfastly believes everything that they consume about their political party and, most worryingly, dismiss anything they consume about their rival party or even anyone who says anything that goes against their party's line.

I don't really see a way out of this and things like AI and deep fakes will just add more mud to the waters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So...

1. Democratic coalition to remove the Tories.
2. Proportional representation so that 40% can never wield total power.
3. Powerful transparency laws, reinforce independence and budget of public service media, stronger media regulation that makes disinformation unprofitable in the corporate media.

We can't slay this beast but we have to limit its effectiveness.

Often the same people who pride themselves on the ‘blitz spirit’ - that they never actually lived through - are the ones who act like snowflakes and cry that they were inconvenienced for 2 years of lockdowns which was actually 3 months x 2 and who if allowed would happily have killed off hundreds of thousands of older people just to be ‘free’ while at the same time talk about the Bill Gates plan to depopulate the world.

No sense of irony.

comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 11 minutes ago
My favourite is when they pull out stats and claim not many people died compared to flu etc. Like ye but that was with lockdowns. Imagine if it had run rampant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So many people miss the actual argument to have here. There was a vaccine against the Flu.

comment by Robb Stifler (U22716)
posted 5 minutes ago
Often the same people who pride themselves on the ‘blitz spirit’ - that they never actually lived through - are the ones who act like snowflakes and cry that they were inconvenienced for 2 years of lockdowns which was actually 3 months x 2 and who if allowed would happily have killed off hundreds of thousands of older people just to be ‘free’ while at the same time talk about the Bill Gates plan to depopulate the world.

No sense of irony.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn't even a lockdown either ffs. The shops were open, takeaways were open, off licences open, you were allowed out to do exercise.

comment by GregUnited (U1192)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Brazenly repeating a proven lie is in vogue on the post-democratic right. Increasingly, core supporters are both entrenched and consuming information from post-truth media (which now, terrifyingly, spans a lot of mainstream outlets) so it's a viable strategy.

You can guarantee that most of the journalists and politicians riding the authoritarian train would have happily played by the rules of liberal democracy a decade ago. Goes to show that societal conditions and systems are more important than the characteristics of the individual agents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly didn't understand a word of this. Sounds intelligent though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Russian is an intelligent poster but sometimes needs to dial it down a touch and remember his audience

I’m with you ….sounds a degree worthy comment however not a facking clue what he is talking about

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 11 minutes ago
My favourite is when they pull out stats and claim not many people died compared to flu etc. Like ye but that was with lockdowns. Imagine if it had run rampant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So many people miss the actual argument to have here. There was a vaccine against the Flu.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The worst is when these people pull out headlines from the last few years showing how the NHS was under extreme pressure because of flu. They think that means Covid was nothing new, rather than asking that if the NHS could barely cope with flu, how could it possibly cope with a more virulent virus with no vaccine in place against it?

The only people needed locking down were those that were old and/or vulnerable. If a fit healthy 20 year old caught covid, sod all would have happened, they'd have had a week off work watching netflix until they'd tested negative. The only people filling hospital beds were the old, ill and vulnerable people. The rest of could have lived fine without full restrictions.

comment by Shaun M - Livin da vi la Roca (U9955)
posted 28 seconds ago
The only people needed locking down were those that were old and/or vulnerable. If a fit healthy 20 year old caught covid, sod all would have happened, they'd have had a week off work watching netflix until they'd tested negative. The only people filling hospital beds were the old, ill and vulnerable people. The rest of could have lived fine without full restrictions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Remind me how you isolate millions of old and vulnerable people?

comment by Robb Stifler (U22716)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Shaun M - Livin da vi la Roca (U9955)
posted 28 seconds ago
The only people needed locking down were those that were old and/or vulnerable. If a fit healthy 20 year old caught covid, sod all would have happened, they'd have had a week off work watching netflix until they'd tested negative. The only people filling hospital beds were the old, ill and vulnerable people. The rest of could have lived fine without full restrictions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Remind me how you isolate millions of old and vulnerable people?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The better question was why was he lying. Plenty of young and health people died from Covid.

You do realise the old, ill and vulnerable were catching it from young, fit and healthy 20 year olds don't you?

comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by GregUnited (U1192)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Brazenly repeating a proven lie is in vogue on the post-democratic right. Increasingly, core supporters are both entrenched and consuming information from post-truth media (which now, terrifyingly, spans a lot of mainstream outlets) so it's a viable strategy.

You can guarantee that most of the journalists and politicians riding the authoritarian train would have happily played by the rules of liberal democracy a decade ago. Goes to show that societal conditions and systems are more important than the characteristics of the individual agents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly didn't understand a word of this. Sounds intelligent though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Russian is an intelligent poster but sometimes needs to dial it down a touch and remember his audience

I’m with you ….sounds a degree worthy comment however not a facking clue what he is talking about
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Glad I'm not alone

Manchester was needlessly in Lockdown for months after everywhere else because Johnson had a tiff with Andy Burnham over funding.

In the end it was hard to determine what was actually there for public safety and what was there because the fat Tory nonce didn't want to be argued with.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb Stifler (U22716)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Shaun M - Livin da vi la Roca (U9955)
posted 28 seconds ago
The only people needed locking down were those that were old and/or vulnerable. If a fit healthy 20 year old caught covid, sod all would have happened, they'd have had a week off work watching netflix until they'd tested negative. The only people filling hospital beds were the old, ill and vulnerable people. The rest of could have lived fine without full restrictions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Remind me how you isolate millions of old and vulnerable people?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The better question was why was he lying. Plenty of young and health people died from Covid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep, nonsense statement.

comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 17 seconds ago
Manchester was needlessly in Lockdown for months after everywhere else because Johnson had a tiff with Andy Burnham over funding.

In the end it was hard to determine what was actually there for public safety and what was there because the fat Tory nonce didn't want to be argued with.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We had the longest level 5 (most extreme) lockdown in the world

comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 minutes ago
You do realise the old, ill and vulnerable were catching it from young, fit and healthy 20 year olds don't you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Exactly. The old and vulnerable should have been locked down and kept away from everybody else. Care homes is an exception obviously. As for nonsense, how many young people did you lot know that died of it? Wasn't it like 0.09% of the deaths young fit and healthy? Dr Bruyne had it and destroyed the Premier league a week after having it.