comment by Rosso out here drippin’ in finesse (U17054)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by ...TUX... (U22398)
posted 7 hours, 41 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by ...TUX... (U22398)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by ...TUX... (U22398)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 54 seconds ago
No, it's because I'm talking about leaders not countries.
As far as I know Biden has had the USA invade another country yet.
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Biden/the West is leading this 'war'.

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Nope
The tanks that arrived were Russian, the soldiers were Russian. They attacked Ukraine because they were ordered to by Putin.
He would like to assimilate the previous USSR countries.
The USA are helping Ukraine, good, and they are on the right side for once.
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Clueless.

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Indeed you are if you think differently.
Putin is a coward.
And I'm for the land of nod.
A demain as we say here.
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The man who is worried about his pension still wants to blame Russia for everything?
Russia has NEVER caused me or you a problem bud.
Those who continually rob you HAVE always blamed your/our problems on something/one else.

Hopefully the penny will finally drop one day..........soon!

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For a start, Russia has intervened covertly in British elections and a referendum which have had material impacts on the lives of British people and residents.

The Putin administration has also sent assassins to British sovereign territory to murder with radioactive and biological weapons which have also killed and otherwise materially threatened the lives of completely innocent people, in one case disposing of a deadly agent with wanton abandon.

Do you acknowledge this?

Try to respond without whataboutery please. We are addressing directly your claim that “Russia has NEVER caused you or me a problem”.
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Why do you bother? I admire your patience but just why mate?

Russia has NEVER caused me or you a problem bud.
...
You obviously didnt have to commute through salisbury everyday after they poisoned the place lol

Believe me they caused a lot of problems there.

Tux doesn’t believe Covid was a thing because his gran didn’t die. He’s a very solitary type of caaant

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 12 minutes ago
People want to go to war with Russia or make them drop nukes? Russia for me especially Putin would rather their be no world than a world with a weak Russia. So yeah let’s play his bluff and see what he does?? Has 1000s of nukes capable of endless devastation.

What will people say if he drops a nuke on Ukraine? Go Ukraine? Well done? Keep fighting?
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If he dropped a nuke on Ukraine my anger would be directed at Putin and no one else.

TUX is an utterly bizarre creature

The Russians have more nukes than any other country in the world. You would be daft to think they wouldn't destroy the world if they have to. The best solution in this conflict is negotiations. There are no winners in this.

comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 42 minutes ago
People want to go to war with Russia or make them drop nukes? Russia for me especially Putin would rather their be no world than a world with a weak Russia. So yeah let’s play his bluff and see what he does?? Has 1000s of nukes capable of endless devastation.

What will people say if he drops a nuke on Ukraine? Go Ukraine? Well done? Keep fighting?
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What with you say? What policy do you advocate?

comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 42 minutes ago
People want to go to war with Russia or make them drop nukes? Russia for me especially Putin would rather their be no world than a world with a weak Russia. So yeah let’s play his bluff and see what he does?? Has 1000s of nukes capable of endless devastation.

What will people say if he drops a nuke on Ukraine? Go Ukraine? Well done? Keep fighting?
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What with you say? What policy do you advocate?
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Will you say*

comment by Boca Seniors (U19731)
posted 25 minutes ago
The Russians have more nukes than any other country in the world. You would be daft to think they wouldn't destroy the world if they have to. The best solution in this conflict is negotiations. There are no winners in this.
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But there would be losers if Ukraine is conceded won't there.

I dont think any of us will get to say much very quickly if Russia nukes Ukraine. About anything. Ever again.

We can only hope that this conflict is ended soon by the only means available to mankind. Negatiations.

I buy into the idea that Russia had reason to feel threatened by the expansion of NATO and US foreign policy.

It takes a certain perspective but I can see it. I'd even go so far as to say I was slightly sympathetic to it as a political conflict. What I don't understand is people still showing sympathy to that narrative when the political conflict became a physical one.

We've all seen the news, we've all seen what has happened to peoples homes, to civilians. People who were just living their lives. There is no defence of the actions imo. All the 'whataboutery' in the world won't change what has happened.

It seems from the protests held at enormous personal risk and the queues of people trying to get out of Russia, the Russian people themselves are at the very least divided on this.

Even if a peace is negotiated (I don't think it will be) then the Ukrainians will continue to fight for generations. There is no good outcome here. The impacts of this war will be felt for the rest of my lifetime I'd imagine. All because of one person.

Ukraine are beating Russia and from all accounts the Russians aren’t really up for the fight. The most likely ending for this is Ukraine getting as far as Crimea and Russia either losing it or it being a stalemate there and the war goes back to how it was at the beginning of all of this. Putin is deposed and Russia goes and licks their wounds. Maybe then Ukraine joins NATO and the area is far more stable after that for decades to come.

comment by Robb Eriksen (U22716)
posted 4 minutes ago
Ukraine are beating Russia and from all accounts the Russians aren’t really up for the fight. The most likely ending for this is Ukraine getting as far as Crimea and Russia either losing it or it being a stalemate there and the war goes back to how it was at the beginning of all of this. Putin is deposed and Russia goes and licks their wounds. Maybe then Ukraine joins NATO and the area is far more stable after that for decades to come.
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Even in that scenario, which I would say is quite optimistic, then Russia would likely remain ostracized from the majority of the west. The move for energy independence isn't going to be reversed, the sanctions likely to continue. Politically and economically they'd be damaged.

Is stability achieved by having a slightly broken Russia? Doesn't sounds likely to me. As I said, no good scenarios here, just different bad ones.

comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Eriksen (U22716)
posted 4 minutes ago
Ukraine are beating Russia and from all accounts the Russians aren’t really up for the fight. The most likely ending for this is Ukraine getting as far as Crimea and Russia either losing it or it being a stalemate there and the war goes back to how it was at the beginning of all of this. Putin is deposed and Russia goes and licks their wounds. Maybe then Ukraine joins NATO and the area is far more stable after that for decades to come.
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Even in that scenario, which I would say is quite optimistic, then Russia would likely remain ostracized from the majority of the west. The move for energy independence isn't going to be reversed, the sanctions likely to continue. Politically and economically they'd be damaged.

Is stability achieved by having a slightly broken Russia? Doesn't sounds likely to me. As I said, no good scenarios here, just different bad ones.
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I’d say there’s more chance of stability weakening Russia than there being a strong Russia having a constant threat of invading its neighbours always being there.

Best case scenario is Ukraine regains all of its pre-2014 land and Russia depose Putin and become more hospitable to the West. A Western friendly Russia helps us all against the potential China threat of the next 20 years.

comment by Boca Seniors (U19731)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
The Russians have more nukes than any other country in the world. You would be daft to think they wouldn't destroy the world if they have to. The best solution in this conflict is negotiations. There are no winners in this.
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Of course there are. Ukraine concédés large part of its country to Russia. There would be a winner and a loser.
And the winner may decide it wants more land from another country.

comment by Robb Eriksen (U22716)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Eriksen (U22716)
posted 4 minutes ago
Ukraine are beating Russia and from all accounts the Russians aren’t really up for the fight. The most likely ending for this is Ukraine getting as far as Crimea and Russia either losing it or it being a stalemate there and the war goes back to how it was at the beginning of all of this. Putin is deposed and Russia goes and licks their wounds. Maybe then Ukraine joins NATO and the area is far more stable after that for decades to come.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Even in that scenario, which I would say is quite optimistic, then Russia would likely remain ostracized from the majority of the west. The move for energy independence isn't going to be reversed, the sanctions likely to continue. Politically and economically they'd be damaged.

Is stability achieved by having a slightly broken Russia? Doesn't sounds likely to me. As I said, no good scenarios here, just different bad ones.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I’d say there’s more chance of stability weakening Russia than there being a strong Russia having a constant threat of invading its neighbours always being there.

Best case scenario is Ukraine regains all of its pre-2014 land and Russia depose Putin and become more hospitable to the West. A Western friendly Russia helps us all against the potential China threat of the next 20 years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There's not a lot of historical precedent for stability being achieved through overly weakening countries. Not that I can think of anyway. A few examples of very, very poor outcomes.

From what I've read (yes, western media so keeping that in mind) it's the older Russian generation that is more nationalistic and desires expansion of Russian borders. The younger generations want political and economic integration.

I appreciate this is a very simplistic interpretation and there will be others on here with much greater knowledge than me, but I would rather build on the integrated intent of the younger generation than develop conditions (ie a weak Russia) for a new generation of nationally focused and perhaps even resentful people.

comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Robb Eriksen (U22716)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Eriksen (U22716)
posted 4 minutes ago
Ukraine are beating Russia and from all accounts the Russians aren’t really up for the fight. The most likely ending for this is Ukraine getting as far as Crimea and Russia either losing it or it being a stalemate there and the war goes back to how it was at the beginning of all of this. Putin is deposed and Russia goes and licks their wounds. Maybe then Ukraine joins NATO and the area is far more stable after that for decades to come.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Even in that scenario, which I would say is quite optimistic, then Russia would likely remain ostracized from the majority of the west. The move for energy independence isn't going to be reversed, the sanctions likely to continue. Politically and economically they'd be damaged.

Is stability achieved by having a slightly broken Russia? Doesn't sounds likely to me. As I said, no good scenarios here, just different bad ones.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I’d say there’s more chance of stability weakening Russia than there being a strong Russia having a constant threat of invading its neighbours always being there.

Best case scenario is Ukraine regains all of its pre-2014 land and Russia depose Putin and become more hospitable to the West. A Western friendly Russia helps us all against the potential China threat of the next 20 years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There's not a lot of historical precedent for stability being achieved through overly weakening countries. Not that I can think of anyway. A few examples of very, very poor outcomes.

From what I've read (yes, western media so keeping that in mind) it's the older Russian generation that is more nationalistic and desires expansion of Russian borders. The younger generations want political and economic integration.

I appreciate this is a very simplistic interpretation and there will be others on here with much greater knowledge than me, but I would rather build on the integrated intent of the younger generation than develop conditions (ie a weak Russia) for a new generation of nationally focused and perhaps even resentful people.

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How does Russia come out of this strong though if as expected/and desired Ukraine wins the war?

Sucks to be them but there has to be some knock to their pride as a punishment for committing this heinous act. Let them skulk back to how they were post- Cold War and let that younger generation rebuild and turn Russia into a politically and economically integrated country you talked of

It’s hardly that simple. It’s just as likely to create conditions for another Putin.

I don't know the end game. But I know Ukraine deserves its country back. They are the ones getting bombed and shelled just because Putin wants it for Russia. And to look big in Russia.

comment by David The King Beckham (U10026)
posted 6 minutes ago
It’s hardly that simple. It’s just as likely to create conditions for another Putin.
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Potentially but what other options exist for Ukraine to win this war - which will humiliate Russia yet for Russia to still remain strong post-conflict?

Well I was going with the point about ostracising them from the West. It’s a very complicated situation that nations have been trying to solve for decades. The rise of China hasn’t helped issues either as the balance of power has shifted away from Russia - an isolated Russia that doesn’t have a powerful ally in the East is a different proposition.

Let them skulk back to how they were post- Cold War and let that younger generation rebuild and turn Russia into a politically and economically integrated country you talked of
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The problem with that line of thought though is a) russia wont just skulk off whilst putin is in charge. He wont allow it. And b) there is nothing to suggest, or any reason to expect, them to follow a democratic path moving forward.

This whole situation is far too advanced now for a rational outcome. Short of someone taking putin out its hard to see how peace can prevail.

comment by The Saint (U22900)
posted 49 seconds ago
Let them skulk back to how they were post- Cold War and let that younger generation rebuild and turn Russia into a politically and economically integrated country you talked of
...
The problem with that line of thought though is a) russia wont just skulk off whilst putin is in charge. He wont allow it. And b) there is nothing to suggest, or any reason to expect, them to follow a democratic path moving forward.

This whole situation is far too advanced now for a rational outcome. Short of someone taking putin out its hard to see how peace can prevail.
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I really can’t see Putin surviving a war lost to Ukraine. I don’t necessarily mean he’ll be whacked but possibly just be ‘retired’ and someone new will be in the hot seat.

Just leads the seat open for someone similar, albeit not as extreme you’d suspect.