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Club will make final Greenwood decision

Page 2 of 6

posted on 16/8/23

comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 5 minutes ago
No rdd yet?
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Wonder if Elvis has him filtered.
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Must do

posted on 16/8/23

I always thought keep him and penalize him legally (salaries, under21) for a period. It will make us seem sensitive to the issue, give Greenwood a way to make himself a valuable takes prospect. We dont need to keep him but we need to to rehabilitate his value, even if its little.

posted on 16/8/23

As someone said, it’s a lose lose whatever happens really.

Personally, I think we should sell him and get as much as we can. The backlash will be intense (rightly so) and it won’t work for him here I feel with the spotlight and abuse he will no doubt receive.

Big shame as in purely footballing terms, he’s the best product of our academy in over a decade I’d say and could have been part of the starting 11 for years.

posted on 16/8/23

comment by Keanos Magic Hat (U10101)
posted 1 minute ago
As someone said, it’s a lose lose whatever happens really.

Personally, I think we should sell him and get as much as we can. The backlash will be intense (rightly so) and it won’t work for him here I feel with the spotlight and abuse he will no doubt receive.

Big shame as in purely footballing terms, he’s the best product of our academy in over a decade I’d say and could have been part of the starting 11 for years.
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He was a fantastic talent and natural goal scorer , he does seem the type that go down the Lingard route however and stop caring as much once a big deal has been signed

posted on 16/8/23

comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Keanos Magic Hat (U10101)
posted 1 minute ago
As someone said, it’s a lose lose whatever happens really.

Personally, I think we should sell him and get as much as we can. The backlash will be intense (rightly so) and it won’t work for him here I feel with the spotlight and abuse he will no doubt receive.

Big shame as in purely footballing terms, he’s the best product of our academy in over a decade I’d say and could have been part of the starting 11 for years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was a fantastic talent and natural goal scorer , he does seem the type that go down the Lingard route however and stop caring as much once a big deal has been signed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was a vastly superior player to Lingard, who was average at best in reality.

posted on 16/8/23

comment by Keanos Magic Hat (U10101)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Keanos Magic Hat (U10101)
posted 1 minute ago
As someone said, it’s a lose lose whatever happens really.

Personally, I think we should sell him and get as much as we can. The backlash will be intense (rightly so) and it won’t work for him here I feel with the spotlight and abuse he will no doubt receive.

Big shame as in purely footballing terms, he’s the best product of our academy in over a decade I’d say and could have been part of the starting 11 for years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was a fantastic talent and natural goal scorer , he does seem the type that go down the Lingard route however and stop caring as much once a big deal has been signed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was a vastly superior player to Lingard, who was average at best in reality.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no one has said anything to the contrary.... I still have the feeling he woulda went down the same route as Lingard

posted on 16/8/23

Berbaking, I'm not sure I agree with the assumption that United can expect to have a degree of control over Greenwood's future behaviour. We can insist on therapy and we have sanctions hanging over him, but I think genuine reform depends on his own genuine sense of shame and determination to change. Looking in from outside, we're not in any position to speculate whether he is in that place, or whether his feelings are coloured by that entitlement we hear in the recording and he feels aggrieved at the ordeal he has been subjected to. It's also conjecture how being released by the club would impact him. Would he be a lost soul, lacking in the guidance needed to eliminate his worst impulses? Or is it possible that he *needs* to be held to account in order to acknowledge that he did something very wrong? Is it possible that if he avoids both jail and the sack, it will reinforce a sense of impunity? I really don't know.

The other thing I would add is that United's decision doesn't just impact Greenwood and his future partners. It also resonates in our broader cultural norms, and what stances we take in relation to domestic abuse, controlling behaviour, etc. In social media we've seen on a wide scale abject misogyny and the attitude that the only thing that matters is Greenwood's talent. I don't think we can ignore the effect the club's decision has on the wider discourse, on how (young) men think about masculinity, and on how women think about their place in society and in the world of football.

posted on 16/8/23

Why do people keep going on about sacking him? It's absolutely pointless as it's never going to happen in a billion years.

If the club have decided to part ways (rumours suggest not) then they would sell him before sacking him as that actually makes us money.

posted on 16/8/23

Greenwood and Welbeck have played roughly the same number of times for United and scored roughly the same number of goals. Looking back, would you have been desperate to get Welbeck back into the team after he had done a raaping?

posted on 16/8/23

comment by Scott Tiffoney (U1734)
posted 41 minutes ago
How exactly did he do anything wrong anyway? The law clearly states that the voice recording didn't exist
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The law is a bubble but

posted on 16/8/23

Butt*

posted on 16/8/23

comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 42 minutes ago
If we were to sack Greenwood what FFP implications would that have? Does anyone know? Rosso?

If there are any implications could that explain why we've not done anything yet?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not from an FFP perspective, I don’t think.

There’d be no impact on amortisation, and only his wages to consider.

I have no idea how we’d account for any payoff, but if it were booked as wages usually are, all it’d do is bring forward something like an additional £4m from the 2024/25 books to this season’s, which is too small an amount for the club to be worried about.

They’ll be thinking along the lines of:

- If we sack him, it’s a £50m (or whatever) asset written off and (potentially) £8m in wages to stump up.

- If we keep him and play him, we retain a £50m asset. We’ll have to keep paying the wages over the next two (plus) seasons, but we’ll open ourselves up to revenue loss as a result of the reputational damage associated with choosing to back a violent raaapist.

- If we keep him and loan him… etc.

Sadly, and despicably IMO, as RR has said, the decision will be a commercial/financial one.

posted on 16/8/23

It's not often I feel sorry for the club, but I do over this.
Whatever they decide it's wrong.
I don't know what I would do in there situation.
I don't want him playing for us again, but I only have to think of me.

posted on 16/8/23

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
Berbaking, I'm not sure I agree with the assumption that United can expect to have a degree of control over Greenwood's future behaviour. We can insist on therapy and we have sanctions hanging over him, but I think genuine reform depends on his own genuine sense of shame and determination to change. Looking in from outside, we're not in any position to speculate whether he is in that place, or whether his feelings are coloured by that entitlement we hear in the recording and he feels aggrieved at the ordeal he has been subjected to. It's also conjecture how being released by the club would impact him. Would he be a lost soul, lacking in the guidance needed to eliminate his worst impulses? Or is it possible that he *needs* to be held to account in order to acknowledge that he did something very wrong? Is it possible that if he avoids both jail and the sack, it will reinforce a sense of impunity? I really don't know.

The other thing I would add is that United's decision doesn't just impact Greenwood and his future partners. It also resonates in our broader cultural norms, and what stances we take in relation to domestic abuse, controlling behaviour, etc. In social media we've seen on a wide scale abject misogyny and the attitude that the only thing that matters is Greenwood's talent. I don't think we can ignore the effect the club's decision has on the wider discourse, on how (young) men think about masculinity, and on how women think about their place in society and in the world of football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Incredibly important points, of which I’ve seen very, very little written.

The club as both a community institution and a megalithic commercial enterprise absolutely has a responsibility to the local community and wider society.

posted on 16/8/23

comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 minutes ago
It's not often I feel sorry for the club, but I do over this.
Whatever they decide it's wrong.
I don't know what I would do in there situation.
I don't want him playing for us again, but I only have to think of me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Their

posted on 16/8/23

comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 16 seconds ago
It's not often I feel sorry for the club, but I do over this.
Whatever they decide it's wrong.
I don't know what I would do in there situation.
I don't want him playing for us again, but I only have to think of me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we could all do with thinking for a few minutes about the potential ramifications of this decision for certain vulnerable and suffering people without any voice on the matter; not least our fellow United fans in Manchester, across the UK and around the world trapped in abusive, violent relationships.

posted on 16/8/23

comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 8 minutes ago
Berbaking, I'm not sure I agree with the assumption that United can expect to have a degree of control over Greenwood's future behaviour. We can insist on therapy and we have sanctions hanging over him, but I think genuine reform depends on his own genuine sense of shame and determination to change. Looking in from outside, we're not in any position to speculate whether he is in that place, or whether his feelings are coloured by that entitlement we hear in the recording and he feels aggrieved at the ordeal he has been subjected to. It's also conjecture how being released by the club would impact him. Would he be a lost soul, lacking in the guidance needed to eliminate his worst impulses? Or is it possible that he *needs* to be held to account in order to acknowledge that he did something very wrong? Is it possible that if he avoids both jail and the sack, it will reinforce a sense of impunity? I really don't know.

The other thing I would add is that United's decision doesn't just impact Greenwood and his future partners. It also resonates in our broader cultural norms, and what stances we take in relation to domestic abuse, controlling behaviour, etc. In social media we've seen on a wide scale abject misogyny and the attitude that the only thing that matters is Greenwood's talent. I don't think we can ignore the effect the club's decision has on the wider discourse, on how (young) men think about masculinity, and on how women think about their place in society and in the world of football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Incredibly important points, of which I’ve seen very, very little written.

The club as both a community institution and a megalithic commercial enterprise absolutely has a responsibility to the local community and wider society.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought these points would be pretty obvious to normal human beings? If they are not, then maybe those at the club making decisions don't understand these obvious points either. Why are people so stupid?

posted on 16/8/23

I'd add to Rosso's post that there are very few large commercial organisations that for which that isn't true. In the area of industry I'm most connected to some companies are substantively adapting their models to a green agenda, but only because they have calculated that the short-term costs are worth it because not doing so opens them up to greater commercial harm in the long term. It's the same in most cases where a business has unquestionably rigorous ethical processes and policies in place. Rosso is right that it's despicable. Just making the point that United aren't uniquely despicable. It's capitalism.

posted on 16/8/23

comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 16 seconds ago
It's not often I feel sorry for the club, but I do over this.
Whatever they decide it's wrong.
I don't know what I would do in there situation.
I don't want him playing for us again, but I only have to think of me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we could all do with thinking for a few minutes about the potential ramifications of this decision for certain vulnerable and suffering people without any voice on the matter; not least our fellow United fans in Manchester, across the UK and around the world trapped in abusive, violent relationships.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes!

posted on 16/8/23

comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 16 seconds ago
It's not often I feel sorry for the club, but I do over this.
Whatever they decide it's wrong.
I don't know what I would do in there situation.
I don't want him playing for us again, but I only have to think of me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we could all do with thinking for a few minutes about the potential ramifications of this decision for certain vulnerable and suffering people without any voice on the matter; not least our fellow United fans in Manchester, across the UK and around the world trapped in abusive, violent relationships.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Even when you think of how many times we've seen - on this forum alone - the idea trotted out that 'he's back with his partner, so it must be OK'. Bringing back Greenwood boosts such narratives out in the wild, and therefore fuels society's ignorance about how prevalent it is that abused partners feel so broken or responsible for their own suffering that they go back to their abusers.

posted on 16/8/23

From the Athletic, a few minutes ago:

"Manchester United’s chief executive, Richard Arnold, told the club’s executive leadership in the first week of August that United were planning to bring back Mason Greenwood.

As part of that plan for Greenwood’s reintegration with the men’s first team, Arnold intended to record a video explaining the decision that would be shared both with staff and the general public.

The proposed date for the announcement was Friday, August 4.

The plan laid out by Arnold that week was that Greenwood would not make any appearances with the club’s charitable arm, the Manchester United Foundation, in the short to medium term, even though the club would be bringing him back to the first-team set-up.

However, United did not proceed with the announcement and, 12 days on, they are still to communicate any decision publicly, meaning elements of the plan could still change."

posted on 16/8/23

Translation: We have a decision but to cowardly to announce it.

posted on 16/8/23

too*

posted on 16/8/23

Club have just released a statement on MG

posted on 16/8/23

There's a simple solution to all this. Rip up his contract and give it to his girlfriend so she goes to court.

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