comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 13 minutes ago
I'm being lazy as I can't be bothered to go and read the statements again, but does the club actually state that they've *heard* the full audio, or just that they understand/have been told the circulated clip is part of a larger audio file?
As far as I remember from the statement they don't make it clear at all that they've heard this supposed full audio version. Not that it really matters... What possible mitigating context could there be for what we heard? That clip is more than enough to tell us what sort of character the lad is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite so Berba
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
I'm being lazy as I can't be bothered to go and read the statements again, but does the club actually state that they've *heard* the full audio, or just that they understand/have been told the circulated clip is part of a larger audio file?
As far as I remember from the statement they don't make it clear at all that they've heard this supposed full audio version. Not that it really matters... What possible mitigating context could there be for what we heard? That clip is more than enough to tell us what sort of character the lad is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultimately, not enough as they’ve made the decision to let him go. That’s the issue they were going to have all along - whatever explanation they were willing to accept internally was always going to be have to made public due to what’s already in the public domain. They’re clearly still not willing to do that (and that could be for a few reasons), but I’m surprised it’s taken them this long and several very botched pr messages to realise that.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
I'm being lazy as I can't be bothered to go and read the statements again, but does the club actually state that they've *heard* the full audio, or just that they understand/have been told the circulated clip is part of a larger audio file?
As far as I remember from the statement they don't make it clear at all that they've heard this supposed full audio version. Not that it really matters... What possible mitigating context could there be for what we heard? That clip is more than enough to tell us what sort of character the lad is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not a supposed full version.
If you look at the video of the recording it says that there is over 15 minutes of audio.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5ZXVrMYpaR8
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The police didn’t come to the conclusion he was innocent of the charges, the CPS felt they no longer had a realistic prospect of conviction due to the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence that came to light.
I don’t think people are speculating as such either, they’re basing an opinion on what is in the public domain, which is the audio recording and that the CPS spent several months believing they did have a realistic proposition of conviction with key witnesses willing to testify to the extent they brought the charges in the first place.
If Greenwood or the club really wanted a route to return to playing for United, the only way they could do that was address those points publicly. There may well be entirely valid reasons why they’ve chosen not to that do prove his innocence, but whatever they are all of this is still ultimately the consequence of things getting into the public domain in the first place that need to be addressed if he really wanst public redemption and to fully clear himself of any wrongdoing.
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
That’s why the only way out of it was always going to be a public explanation. That or the consequences that have happened today and for him to hope to rebuild his career elsewhere as much as he can less under the spotlight.
Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents.
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. If any of those three possible explanations for the audio were credible or correct, he'd have been back playing a long time ago and the whole thing over before it began. Option 2 might have been an embarrassing concession, but not greatly more embarrassing than our former number 11's romantic poetry.
2a.The police certainly did not come to the conclusion MG was "innocent". There's a huge difference between someone being innocent of a crime and not being able to secure a conviction for it. In this case the latter applied, not the former.
2b.The club's [claimed] belief that he was innocent may be correct. Or it may be incorrect. We can imagine scenarios where they could be right or wrong in their conclusion. We can also imagine scenarios where it's convenient for both parties (the club & MG) to state that publicly regardless of its accuracy. What we do know for sure is that investigating allegations of domestic abuse is well outside of the club's area of expertise and speciality. It's barely capable of performing & functioning its primary sporting objectives! Whatever conclusions it arrived at always ran the risk of being fatally flawed.
2c.What evidence do we have for what Harriet's family think? Where have they spoken on this?
3. I don't know that Harriet's desire for anonymity tells us anything at all here. But if her partner was being wrongfully accused of awful crimes that were allegedly done to her and was facing both criminal conviction, career suicide & public image issues, you'd imagine she'd be more inclined to want to set the record straight publicly than remain silent. And if you were MG, wouldn't you be everywhere, vocally protesting your innocence and handing out receipts? Maybe he will now the initial decision has been announced, but there's no way in hell I'd have been silent this whole time in his shoes as an innocent and my public statement would not have pulled any punches or been a mealy mouthed as his was.
4. MG being guilty is considerably more likely than the alternative scenarios you've described. There's no evidence at all that the audio is manipulated and if the audio was edited and the photos faked or lied about then it's difficult to see how MG ends up back in a relationship with that person and father's her child after that. You'd have to be insane to get back with someone that has just tried to ruin your life in a very public way. The theory just isn't plausible - certainly not at this stage and with such little information.
Nevertheless, good to see you back Kung Fu - always nice to see a familiar name appear after an absence.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The police didn’t come to the conclusion he was innocent of the charges, the CPS felt they no longer had a realistic prospect of conviction due to the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence that came to light.
I don’t think people are speculating as such either, they’re basing an opinion on what is in the public domain, which is the audio recording and that the CPS spent several months believing they did have a realistic proposition of conviction with key witnesses willing to testify to the extent they brought the charges in the first place.
If Greenwood or the club really wanted a route to return to playing for United, the only way they could do that was address those points publicly. There may well be entirely valid reasons why they’ve chosen not to that do prove his innocence, but whatever they are all of this is still ultimately the consequence of things getting into the public domain in the first place that need to be addressed if he really wanst public redemption and to fully clear himself of any wrongdoing.
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
That’s why the only way out of it was always going to be a public explanation. That or the consequences that have happened today and for him to hope to rebuild his career elsewhere as much as he can less under the spotlight.
Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't found to be guilty and you're presumed innocent until guilty. The presumption of innocence remains but technically you're right.
The withdrawal of key witnesses could have been down to guilt, knowing it was a complete lie?
I'm only offering the other possibilities for balance, as there seems to be an instance that MG is still a rapist amongst many people.
"The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries"
If he is guilty of the charges, would Harriet want to marry and give birth to the child of a man who raped, physically abused and coerced her.
There is a question mark over each and every piece of speculation which favours MG or Harriet.
"Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents."
Agreed.
My best guess is that it WAS a toxic relationship and this entire sequence of events have snapped them out of their immiturity.
“If he is guilty of the charges, would Harriet want to marry and give birth to the child of a man who raped, physically abused and coerced her?”
——————————————
Victims of domestic abuse do, unfortunately, tend to return to their partner (at least for a while), in a great many cases. So it’s more than possible: it’s actually terribly common.
BerbaKing11
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice to see you're still around as well mate, that goes for Melton as well. I pop in a couple of times a month, but life is a little busier and twitter or "twatter" as some users call it seems to be a natural switch for debate. More diverse in opinion as well.
........
Those aren't the only two options when it comes to the recording. Harriet may not have wanted an embarrassing concession of the facts. MG might be playing the protective partner.
There could be a number of possibilities, which no matter how small need to be considered. Reality is stranger than fiction sometimes.
This woman beat herself in the face with a hammer in order to frame men for example.
https://hollywoodunlocked.com/woman-sentenced-to-8-years-after-beating-her-own-face-with-a-hammer-blaming-it-on-an-asian-grooming-gang/
Again I'm just speculating for a balanced view.
For your second point, i'll just repeat what I said to MB...
He wasn't found to be guilty either and you're presumed to be innocent until found guilty. The presumption of innocence remains but technically you're right.
From Arnolds open letter (the last point)
"The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022.
- We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online.
- The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings."
From this we can gather speaking to the family helped Arnold reach the conclusion that MG didn't commit those acts.
If he didn't commit those acts, then what does that say about the bloody pictures of Harriet? Did somebody else beat her up and she made it look like MG when he aggravated her? Was it makeup?
This is also why I gave alternative reasons for the audio.
"MG being guilty is considerably more likely"
Agreed but that doesn't rule out the possibility that he isn't guilty. He should have been able to move on with his life at United imo
"You'd have to be insane to get back with someone that has just tried to ruin your life in a very public way"
This one goes both ways for MG and Harriet.
I'll sign off by saying there are a multitude of possibilities which could have led to the leaks last year. I just absolutely hate the mob mentality which is conjured up whenever something like this happens.
People are called rapists before trial and the people who call for calm until there is a complete picture are called rapist sympathisers.
This toxicity is the part of JA606 I don't miss.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 12 minutes ago
“If he is guilty of the charges, would Harriet want to marry and give birth to the child of a man who raped, physically abused and coerced her?”
——————————————
Victims of domestic abuse do, unfortunately, tend to return to their partner (at least for a while), in a great many cases. So it’s more than possible: it’s actually terribly common.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is true Berba but there are a number of men who stay in toxic relatinships as well.
I'm not actually point blank disagreeing with anything you say. I just don't think likelihood is a good enough reason to get the pitchforks out, generally speaking, not you personally.
Have a good night!
I'll come back to this during the day.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 5 hours, 35 minutes ago
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not heard of Amber Heard? Took Depp years and being dragged through the mud to clear his name.
1 in 200 are psychopaths.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 8 hours, 59 minutes ago
I'm being lazy as I can't be bothered to go and read the statements again, but does the club actually state that they've *heard* the full audio, or just that they understand/have been told the circulated clip is part of a larger audio file?
As far as I remember from the statement they don't make it clear at all that they've heard this supposed full audio version. Not that it really matters... What possible mitigating context could there be for what we heard? That clip is more than enough to tell us what sort of character the lad is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still not happy with your pound of flesh.
Madness.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The police didn’t come to the conclusion he was innocent of the charges, the CPS felt they no longer had a realistic prospect of conviction due to the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence that came to light.
I don’t think people are speculating as such either, they’re basing an opinion on what is in the public domain, which is the audio recording and that the CPS spent several months believing they did have a realistic proposition of conviction with key witnesses willing to testify to the extent they brought the charges in the first place.
If Greenwood or the club really wanted a route to return to playing for United, the only way they could do that was address those points publicly. There may well be entirely valid reasons why they’ve chosen not to that do prove his innocence, but whatever they are all of this is still ultimately the consequence of things getting into the public domain in the first place that need to be addressed if he really wanst public redemption and to fully clear himself of any wrongdoing.
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
That’s why the only way out of it was always going to be a public explanation. That or the consequences that have happened today and for him to hope to rebuild his career elsewhere as much as he can less under the spotlight.
Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CPS decision to drop the case came 10 months after the alleged 'victim' asked them to drop the case. This suggests it is the new information / evidence that played a significant part in their decision.
People are speculating.
The alleged 'victim' asked the case be dropped 10 months before it was.
She has since agreed to marry him and had his child.
The CPS, quoting new information, decided they had no chance of a conviction.
The club have referred to information not in the public domain and stated they do not believe he did what he was acused of.
Her family are in agreement with the CPS and clubs findings.
Despite all of the above we still have those that judged him immediately, refusing to accept they were wrong, and throwing the 'victim' her family, the club under the bus in order to support their position
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
BerbaKing11
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice to see you're still around as well mate, that goes for Melton as well. I pop in a couple of times a month, but life is a little busier and twitter or "twatter" as some users call it seems to be a natural switch for debate. More diverse in opinion as well.
........
Those aren't the only two options when it comes to the recording. Harriet may not have wanted an embarrassing concession of the facts. MG might be playing the protective partner.
There could be a number of possibilities, which no matter how small need to be considered. Reality is stranger than fiction sometimes.
This woman beat herself in the face with a hammer in order to frame men for example.
https://hollywoodunlocked.com/woman-sentenced-to-8-years-after-beating-her-own-face-with-a-hammer-blaming-it-on-an-asian-grooming-gang/
Again I'm just speculating for a balanced view.
For your second point, i'll just repeat what I said to MB...
He wasn't found to be guilty either and you're presumed to be innocent until found guilty. The presumption of innocence remains but technically you're right.
From Arnolds open letter (the last point)
"The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022.
- We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online.
- The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings."
From this we can gather speaking to the family helped Arnold reach the conclusion that MG didn't commit those acts.
If he didn't commit those acts, then what does that say about the bloody pictures of Harriet? Did somebody else beat her up and she made it look like MG when he aggravated her? Was it makeup?
This is also why I gave alternative reasons for the audio.
"MG being guilty is considerably more likely"
Agreed but that doesn't rule out the possibility that he isn't guilty. He should have been able to move on with his life at United imo
"You'd have to be insane to get back with someone that has just tried to ruin your life in a very public way"
This one goes both ways for MG and Harriet.
I'll sign off by saying there are a multitude of possibilities which could have led to the leaks last year. I just absolutely hate the mob mentality which is conjured up whenever something like this happens.
People are called rapists before trial and the people who call for calm until there is a complete picture are called rapist sympathisers.
This toxicity is the part of JA606 I don't miss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said
comment by Ohnono (U22987)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The police didn’t come to the conclusion he was innocent of the charges, the CPS felt they no longer had a realistic prospect of conviction due to the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence that came to light.
I don’t think people are speculating as such either, they’re basing an opinion on what is in the public domain, which is the audio recording and that the CPS spent several months believing they did have a realistic proposition of conviction with key witnesses willing to testify to the extent they brought the charges in the first place.
If Greenwood or the club really wanted a route to return to playing for United, the only way they could do that was address those points publicly. There may well be entirely valid reasons why they’ve chosen not to that do prove his innocence, but whatever they are all of this is still ultimately the consequence of things getting into the public domain in the first place that need to be addressed if he really wanst public redemption and to fully clear himself of any wrongdoing.
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
That’s why the only way out of it was always going to be a public explanation. That or the consequences that have happened today and for him to hope to rebuild his career elsewhere as much as he can less under the spotlight.
Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CPS decision to drop the case came 10 months after the alleged 'victim' asked them to drop the case. This suggests it is the new information / evidence that played a significant part in their decision.
People are speculating.
The alleged 'victim' asked the case be dropped 10 months before it was.
She has since agreed to marry him and had his child.
The CPS, quoting new information, decided they had no chance of a conviction.
The club have referred to information not in the public domain and stated they do not believe he did what he was acused of.
Her family are in agreement with the CPS and clubs findings.
Despite all of the above we still have those that judged him immediately, refusing to accept they were wrong, and throwing the 'victim' her family, the club under the bus in order to support their position
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was it the alleged victim? I think I only heard them say 'key witness'? Or is it more speculation?
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 9 hours, 43 minutes ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 seconds ago
Was one of the explanations was that Mason didn't make it. That's provable or not nowadays.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then there was your explanation old boy!
“I believe the money was paid out to make it all go away. The girl was from a poor family, and we are talking millions.”
Because poor families don’t have the same morals as rich families!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The last line is yours not mine young man, as you know.
Also I believe he made the recording,if he didn't, he would have said so immediately don't you think ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
“ if the family was rich it may well have had a different outcome.”
Well old boy that’s basically what you said with above statement!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But not the line you made up.
Anyway, I'm content with my position so to speak.
I'm sure you're pleased with yours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you look i never quoted you i was summarising what your thoughts were as per the two statements I quoted.
Im very pleased with my position. 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it's not a summary, it's you invention.
But bribing someone with a thousand who has a million is unlikely to succeed whatever their morals, but may be a million would.
You maybe more successful with someone who has nothing.
There maybe a 50-50 chance in both cases, as the morality of each group averages the same. That's a made up figure by the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said “we are talking millions”
You do love making stuff up old boy!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not nearly as much as you. The figures were illustrative as you should know. Chu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bless you!
There’s 3 made up things by you on here the 2 quotes and the averages! 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None out of three.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s your 4th now 🤣🤣🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------
God you're boring
----------------------------------------------------------------------
🤣🤣.. well id rather be that than a poor family hating sexiest!
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 6 hours, 12 minutes ago
People are called rapists before trial and the people who call for calm until there is a complete picture are called rapist sympathisers.
This toxicity is the part of JA606 I don't miss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but it is ever so macho to get your pitchfork out.
I know a footballer that was accused of rape. Never reached a criminal court but he was about to be hounded out his team and deported but six figures of lawyer fees and other investigations revealed the girl had both done it to another sportsman and confided to a friend that it was her plan all along so it never got as far as a police investigation but there are lots of weirdos out there with spurious intentions.
That said, every case is different. This one is extraordinary viz the alleged evidence. Hope the lad can sort it all out and still pursue his trade somewhere.
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Ohnono (U22987)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The police didn’t come to the conclusion he was innocent of the charges, the CPS felt they no longer had a realistic prospect of conviction due to the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence that came to light.
I don’t think people are speculating as such either, they’re basing an opinion on what is in the public domain, which is the audio recording and that the CPS spent several months believing they did have a realistic proposition of conviction with key witnesses willing to testify to the extent they brought the charges in the first place.
If Greenwood or the club really wanted a route to return to playing for United, the only way they could do that was address those points publicly. There may well be entirely valid reasons why they’ve chosen not to that do prove his innocence, but whatever they are all of this is still ultimately the consequence of things getting into the public domain in the first place that need to be addressed if he really wanst public redemption and to fully clear himself of any wrongdoing.
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
That’s why the only way out of it was always going to be a public explanation. That or the consequences that have happened today and for him to hope to rebuild his career elsewhere as much as he can less under the spotlight.
Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CPS decision to drop the case came 10 months after the alleged 'victim' asked them to drop the case. This suggests it is the new information / evidence that played a significant part in their decision.
People are speculating.
The alleged 'victim' asked the case be dropped 10 months before it was.
She has since agreed to marry him and had his child.
The CPS, quoting new information, decided they had no chance of a conviction.
The club have referred to information not in the public domain and stated they do not believe he did what he was acused of.
Her family are in agreement with the CPS and clubs findings.
Despite all of the above we still have those that judged him immediately, refusing to accept they were wrong, and throwing the 'victim' her family, the club under the bus in order to support their position
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was it the alleged victim? I think I only heard them say 'key witness'? Or is it more speculation?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, it was the alleged 'victim'
When you’re in a hole stop digging. Apparently United not familiar with principle.
The aim was to complete the investigation ahead of the new season and thus provide clarity to manager Erik ten Hag, who was keen to plan for the forthcoming campaign.
The crux of the investigation was to decipher what had actually happened. Although the alleged victim declined to co-operate — as she had eventually done with the Crown Prosecution Service — her mother spoke to United with her blessing. Later in the process, when United had drafted their findings, both were given the opportunity to comment or correct any of what the club believed were the facts of the matter. No such clarification was forthcoming.
United were quick to establish that the social media content that triggered Greenwood’s arrest — a mixture of photographs and harrowing audio clips — was posted in the early hours of the morning after the striker had ended his relationship with the alleged victim. The content included pictures which appeared to show a woman with a number of injuries. One featured the woman with blood flowing from her mouth and was accompanied by a caption which read: ‘To everyone who wants to know what Mason Greenwood actually does to me.’ A disturbing audio file was also uploaded in which a male voice could be heard trying to coerce a distressed female into having sex.
United asked for — and were given — explanations behind those posts and were satisfied that no physical abuse took place, a finding that was not disputed by the alleged victim’s family.
They also found that Greenwood had not subjected the woman to coercive control, following conversations with her mother, and that the audio clip was an excerpt from a lengthier exchange.
They say they cannot share that additional footage. Police arrested Greenwood later on the day the content was posted, but United’s review found that they had acted after being made aware of the posts, and not following a complaint from the alleged victim.
United then examined Greenwood’s behaviour with the police following his arrest and found that he handed over his devices and passwords so officers could fully examine them. In April of last year, around three months after Greenwood’s arrest, the alleged victim withdrew both her allegations and her support of the investigation.
However, in October, the CPS charged Greenwood with attempted rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The crux of the club's investigation was ultimately to decipher what had actually happened
+8
View gallery
The crux of the club's investigation was ultimately to decipher what had actually happened
Greenwood saw charges of attempted rape and assault against him dropped earlier this year
+8
View gallery
Greenwood saw charges of attempted rape and assault against him dropped earlier this year
The police and CPS worked together for a year to build a case. However, following the withdrawal of key witnesses and the coming to light of new evidence, they decided that a conviction was unlikely and in February of this year withdrew those charges, dumping the matter on United’s doorstep.
Over the course of their subsequent inquiries United were left confident that the social media posts represented a small fraction of the evidence considered by the CPS and, as such, did not paint a full picture of the situation.
The court of public opinion was then taken into account. United examined various scenarios and the likely reactions. Whether Greenwood could pull on a red shirt again without proving to be a hugely damaging distraction was part of the discussion, as was the likely reaction from media outlets and domestic abuse charities.
There we go.
The CPS continued to pursue a case without the victims cocoperation, until new evidence came to light, which made a conviction, unlikely.
It seems that unless they get all the gory details, those that branded Greenwood a 'nonce' are happy with that position.
. I just absolutely hate the mob mentality which is conjured up whenever something like this happens.
People are called rapists before trial and the people who call for calm until there is a complete picture are called rapist sympathisers.
This toxicity is the part of JA606 I don't miss.
++++
well, Amen to that.
Its the nature of social media. Its vile.
Very few have called him a racist.
Most found the non refuted recording enough.
People are called rapists before trial and the people who call for calm until there is a complete picture are called rapist sympathisers.
--
And after the clubs come out and stated they're confident he didn't commit the offence.
As I stated earlier it's why depp had to spend years getting dragged through the mud clearing his name after that video of him slamming kitchen doors was leaked by his gaslighting wife. Yet still people think a statement by Greenwood would make any difference.
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The recording
Page 2 of 4
posted on 21/8/23
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 13 minutes ago
I'm being lazy as I can't be bothered to go and read the statements again, but does the club actually state that they've *heard* the full audio, or just that they understand/have been told the circulated clip is part of a larger audio file?
As far as I remember from the statement they don't make it clear at all that they've heard this supposed full audio version. Not that it really matters... What possible mitigating context could there be for what we heard? That clip is more than enough to tell us what sort of character the lad is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite so Berba
posted on 21/8/23
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
I'm being lazy as I can't be bothered to go and read the statements again, but does the club actually state that they've *heard* the full audio, or just that they understand/have been told the circulated clip is part of a larger audio file?
As far as I remember from the statement they don't make it clear at all that they've heard this supposed full audio version. Not that it really matters... What possible mitigating context could there be for what we heard? That clip is more than enough to tell us what sort of character the lad is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultimately, not enough as they’ve made the decision to let him go. That’s the issue they were going to have all along - whatever explanation they were willing to accept internally was always going to be have to made public due to what’s already in the public domain. They’re clearly still not willing to do that (and that could be for a few reasons), but I’m surprised it’s taken them this long and several very botched pr messages to realise that.
posted on 22/8/23
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
I'm being lazy as I can't be bothered to go and read the statements again, but does the club actually state that they've *heard* the full audio, or just that they understand/have been told the circulated clip is part of a larger audio file?
As far as I remember from the statement they don't make it clear at all that they've heard this supposed full audio version. Not that it really matters... What possible mitigating context could there be for what we heard? That clip is more than enough to tell us what sort of character the lad is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not a supposed full version.
If you look at the video of the recording it says that there is over 15 minutes of audio.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5ZXVrMYpaR8
posted on 22/8/23
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
posted on 22/8/23
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The police didn’t come to the conclusion he was innocent of the charges, the CPS felt they no longer had a realistic prospect of conviction due to the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence that came to light.
I don’t think people are speculating as such either, they’re basing an opinion on what is in the public domain, which is the audio recording and that the CPS spent several months believing they did have a realistic proposition of conviction with key witnesses willing to testify to the extent they brought the charges in the first place.
If Greenwood or the club really wanted a route to return to playing for United, the only way they could do that was address those points publicly. There may well be entirely valid reasons why they’ve chosen not to that do prove his innocence, but whatever they are all of this is still ultimately the consequence of things getting into the public domain in the first place that need to be addressed if he really wanst public redemption and to fully clear himself of any wrongdoing.
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
That’s why the only way out of it was always going to be a public explanation. That or the consequences that have happened today and for him to hope to rebuild his career elsewhere as much as he can less under the spotlight.
Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents.
posted on 22/8/23
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. If any of those three possible explanations for the audio were credible or correct, he'd have been back playing a long time ago and the whole thing over before it began. Option 2 might have been an embarrassing concession, but not greatly more embarrassing than our former number 11's romantic poetry.
2a.The police certainly did not come to the conclusion MG was "innocent". There's a huge difference between someone being innocent of a crime and not being able to secure a conviction for it. In this case the latter applied, not the former.
2b.The club's [claimed] belief that he was innocent may be correct. Or it may be incorrect. We can imagine scenarios where they could be right or wrong in their conclusion. We can also imagine scenarios where it's convenient for both parties (the club & MG) to state that publicly regardless of its accuracy. What we do know for sure is that investigating allegations of domestic abuse is well outside of the club's area of expertise and speciality. It's barely capable of performing & functioning its primary sporting objectives! Whatever conclusions it arrived at always ran the risk of being fatally flawed.
2c.What evidence do we have for what Harriet's family think? Where have they spoken on this?
3. I don't know that Harriet's desire for anonymity tells us anything at all here. But if her partner was being wrongfully accused of awful crimes that were allegedly done to her and was facing both criminal conviction, career suicide & public image issues, you'd imagine she'd be more inclined to want to set the record straight publicly than remain silent. And if you were MG, wouldn't you be everywhere, vocally protesting your innocence and handing out receipts? Maybe he will now the initial decision has been announced, but there's no way in hell I'd have been silent this whole time in his shoes as an innocent and my public statement would not have pulled any punches or been a mealy mouthed as his was.
4. MG being guilty is considerably more likely than the alternative scenarios you've described. There's no evidence at all that the audio is manipulated and if the audio was edited and the photos faked or lied about then it's difficult to see how MG ends up back in a relationship with that person and father's her child after that. You'd have to be insane to get back with someone that has just tried to ruin your life in a very public way. The theory just isn't plausible - certainly not at this stage and with such little information.
Nevertheless, good to see you back Kung Fu - always nice to see a familiar name appear after an absence.
posted on 22/8/23
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The police didn’t come to the conclusion he was innocent of the charges, the CPS felt they no longer had a realistic prospect of conviction due to the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence that came to light.
I don’t think people are speculating as such either, they’re basing an opinion on what is in the public domain, which is the audio recording and that the CPS spent several months believing they did have a realistic proposition of conviction with key witnesses willing to testify to the extent they brought the charges in the first place.
If Greenwood or the club really wanted a route to return to playing for United, the only way they could do that was address those points publicly. There may well be entirely valid reasons why they’ve chosen not to that do prove his innocence, but whatever they are all of this is still ultimately the consequence of things getting into the public domain in the first place that need to be addressed if he really wanst public redemption and to fully clear himself of any wrongdoing.
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
That’s why the only way out of it was always going to be a public explanation. That or the consequences that have happened today and for him to hope to rebuild his career elsewhere as much as he can less under the spotlight.
Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He wasn't found to be guilty and you're presumed innocent until guilty. The presumption of innocence remains but technically you're right.
The withdrawal of key witnesses could have been down to guilt, knowing it was a complete lie?
I'm only offering the other possibilities for balance, as there seems to be an instance that MG is still a rapist amongst many people.
"The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries"
If he is guilty of the charges, would Harriet want to marry and give birth to the child of a man who raped, physically abused and coerced her.
There is a question mark over each and every piece of speculation which favours MG or Harriet.
"Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents."
Agreed.
My best guess is that it WAS a toxic relationship and this entire sequence of events have snapped them out of their immiturity.
posted on 22/8/23
“If he is guilty of the charges, would Harriet want to marry and give birth to the child of a man who raped, physically abused and coerced her?”
——————————————
Victims of domestic abuse do, unfortunately, tend to return to their partner (at least for a while), in a great many cases. So it’s more than possible: it’s actually terribly common.
posted on 22/8/23
BerbaKing11
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice to see you're still around as well mate, that goes for Melton as well. I pop in a couple of times a month, but life is a little busier and twitter or "twatter" as some users call it seems to be a natural switch for debate. More diverse in opinion as well.
........
Those aren't the only two options when it comes to the recording. Harriet may not have wanted an embarrassing concession of the facts. MG might be playing the protective partner.
There could be a number of possibilities, which no matter how small need to be considered. Reality is stranger than fiction sometimes.
This woman beat herself in the face with a hammer in order to frame men for example.
https://hollywoodunlocked.com/woman-sentenced-to-8-years-after-beating-her-own-face-with-a-hammer-blaming-it-on-an-asian-grooming-gang/
Again I'm just speculating for a balanced view.
For your second point, i'll just repeat what I said to MB...
He wasn't found to be guilty either and you're presumed to be innocent until found guilty. The presumption of innocence remains but technically you're right.
From Arnolds open letter (the last point)
"The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022.
- We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online.
- The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings."
From this we can gather speaking to the family helped Arnold reach the conclusion that MG didn't commit those acts.
If he didn't commit those acts, then what does that say about the bloody pictures of Harriet? Did somebody else beat her up and she made it look like MG when he aggravated her? Was it makeup?
This is also why I gave alternative reasons for the audio.
"MG being guilty is considerably more likely"
Agreed but that doesn't rule out the possibility that he isn't guilty. He should have been able to move on with his life at United imo
"You'd have to be insane to get back with someone that has just tried to ruin your life in a very public way"
This one goes both ways for MG and Harriet.
I'll sign off by saying there are a multitude of possibilities which could have led to the leaks last year. I just absolutely hate the mob mentality which is conjured up whenever something like this happens.
People are called rapists before trial and the people who call for calm until there is a complete picture are called rapist sympathisers.
This toxicity is the part of JA606 I don't miss.
posted on 22/8/23
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 12 minutes ago
“If he is guilty of the charges, would Harriet want to marry and give birth to the child of a man who raped, physically abused and coerced her?”
——————————————
Victims of domestic abuse do, unfortunately, tend to return to their partner (at least for a while), in a great many cases. So it’s more than possible: it’s actually terribly common.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is true Berba but there are a number of men who stay in toxic relatinships as well.
I'm not actually point blank disagreeing with anything you say. I just don't think likelihood is a good enough reason to get the pitchforks out, generally speaking, not you personally.
posted on 22/8/23
Have a good night!
I'll come back to this during the day.
posted on 22/8/23
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 5 hours, 35 minutes ago
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not heard of Amber Heard? Took Depp years and being dragged through the mud to clear his name.
1 in 200 are psychopaths.
posted on 22/8/23
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 8 hours, 59 minutes ago
I'm being lazy as I can't be bothered to go and read the statements again, but does the club actually state that they've *heard* the full audio, or just that they understand/have been told the circulated clip is part of a larger audio file?
As far as I remember from the statement they don't make it clear at all that they've heard this supposed full audio version. Not that it really matters... What possible mitigating context could there be for what we heard? That clip is more than enough to tell us what sort of character the lad is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still not happy with your pound of flesh.
Madness.
posted on 22/8/23
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The police didn’t come to the conclusion he was innocent of the charges, the CPS felt they no longer had a realistic prospect of conviction due to the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence that came to light.
I don’t think people are speculating as such either, they’re basing an opinion on what is in the public domain, which is the audio recording and that the CPS spent several months believing they did have a realistic proposition of conviction with key witnesses willing to testify to the extent they brought the charges in the first place.
If Greenwood or the club really wanted a route to return to playing for United, the only way they could do that was address those points publicly. There may well be entirely valid reasons why they’ve chosen not to that do prove his innocence, but whatever they are all of this is still ultimately the consequence of things getting into the public domain in the first place that need to be addressed if he really wanst public redemption and to fully clear himself of any wrongdoing.
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
That’s why the only way out of it was always going to be a public explanation. That or the consequences that have happened today and for him to hope to rebuild his career elsewhere as much as he can less under the spotlight.
Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CPS decision to drop the case came 10 months after the alleged 'victim' asked them to drop the case. This suggests it is the new information / evidence that played a significant part in their decision.
People are speculating.
The alleged 'victim' asked the case be dropped 10 months before it was.
She has since agreed to marry him and had his child.
The CPS, quoting new information, decided they had no chance of a conviction.
The club have referred to information not in the public domain and stated they do not believe he did what he was acused of.
Her family are in agreement with the CPS and clubs findings.
Despite all of the above we still have those that judged him immediately, refusing to accept they were wrong, and throwing the 'victim' her family, the club under the bus in order to support their position
posted on 22/8/23
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
BerbaKing11
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice to see you're still around as well mate, that goes for Melton as well. I pop in a couple of times a month, but life is a little busier and twitter or "twatter" as some users call it seems to be a natural switch for debate. More diverse in opinion as well.
........
Those aren't the only two options when it comes to the recording. Harriet may not have wanted an embarrassing concession of the facts. MG might be playing the protective partner.
There could be a number of possibilities, which no matter how small need to be considered. Reality is stranger than fiction sometimes.
This woman beat herself in the face with a hammer in order to frame men for example.
https://hollywoodunlocked.com/woman-sentenced-to-8-years-after-beating-her-own-face-with-a-hammer-blaming-it-on-an-asian-grooming-gang/
Again I'm just speculating for a balanced view.
For your second point, i'll just repeat what I said to MB...
He wasn't found to be guilty either and you're presumed to be innocent until found guilty. The presumption of innocence remains but technically you're right.
From Arnolds open letter (the last point)
"The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022.
- We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online.
- The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings."
From this we can gather speaking to the family helped Arnold reach the conclusion that MG didn't commit those acts.
If he didn't commit those acts, then what does that say about the bloody pictures of Harriet? Did somebody else beat her up and she made it look like MG when he aggravated her? Was it makeup?
This is also why I gave alternative reasons for the audio.
"MG being guilty is considerably more likely"
Agreed but that doesn't rule out the possibility that he isn't guilty. He should have been able to move on with his life at United imo
"You'd have to be insane to get back with someone that has just tried to ruin your life in a very public way"
This one goes both ways for MG and Harriet.
I'll sign off by saying there are a multitude of possibilities which could have led to the leaks last year. I just absolutely hate the mob mentality which is conjured up whenever something like this happens.
People are called rapists before trial and the people who call for calm until there is a complete picture are called rapist sympathisers.
This toxicity is the part of JA606 I don't miss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said
posted on 22/8/23
comment by Ohnono (U22987)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The police didn’t come to the conclusion he was innocent of the charges, the CPS felt they no longer had a realistic prospect of conviction due to the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence that came to light.
I don’t think people are speculating as such either, they’re basing an opinion on what is in the public domain, which is the audio recording and that the CPS spent several months believing they did have a realistic proposition of conviction with key witnesses willing to testify to the extent they brought the charges in the first place.
If Greenwood or the club really wanted a route to return to playing for United, the only way they could do that was address those points publicly. There may well be entirely valid reasons why they’ve chosen not to that do prove his innocence, but whatever they are all of this is still ultimately the consequence of things getting into the public domain in the first place that need to be addressed if he really wanst public redemption and to fully clear himself of any wrongdoing.
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
That’s why the only way out of it was always going to be a public explanation. That or the consequences that have happened today and for him to hope to rebuild his career elsewhere as much as he can less under the spotlight.
Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The CPS decision to drop the case came 10 months after the alleged 'victim' asked them to drop the case. This suggests it is the new information / evidence that played a significant part in their decision.
People are speculating.
The alleged 'victim' asked the case be dropped 10 months before it was.
She has since agreed to marry him and had his child.
The CPS, quoting new information, decided they had no chance of a conviction.
The club have referred to information not in the public domain and stated they do not believe he did what he was acused of.
Her family are in agreement with the CPS and clubs findings.
Despite all of the above we still have those that judged him immediately, refusing to accept they were wrong, and throwing the 'victim' her family, the club under the bus in order to support their position
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was it the alleged victim? I think I only heard them say 'key witness'? Or is it more speculation?
posted on 22/8/23
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 9 hours, 43 minutes ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by RED666👺 The Influencer (U6562)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 4 seconds ago
Was one of the explanations was that Mason didn't make it. That's provable or not nowadays.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then there was your explanation old boy!
“I believe the money was paid out to make it all go away. The girl was from a poor family, and we are talking millions.”
Because poor families don’t have the same morals as rich families!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The last line is yours not mine young man, as you know.
Also I believe he made the recording,if he didn't, he would have said so immediately don't you think ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
“ if the family was rich it may well have had a different outcome.”
Well old boy that’s basically what you said with above statement!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But not the line you made up.
Anyway, I'm content with my position so to speak.
I'm sure you're pleased with yours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you look i never quoted you i was summarising what your thoughts were as per the two statements I quoted.
Im very pleased with my position. 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No it's not a summary, it's you invention.
But bribing someone with a thousand who has a million is unlikely to succeed whatever their morals, but may be a million would.
You maybe more successful with someone who has nothing.
There maybe a 50-50 chance in both cases, as the morality of each group averages the same. That's a made up figure by the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You said “we are talking millions”
You do love making stuff up old boy!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not nearly as much as you. The figures were illustrative as you should know. Chu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bless you!
There’s 3 made up things by you on here the 2 quotes and the averages! 🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None out of three.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s your 4th now 🤣🤣🤣
----------------------------------------------------------------------
God you're boring
----------------------------------------------------------------------
🤣🤣.. well id rather be that than a poor family hating sexiest!
posted on 22/8/23
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 6 hours, 12 minutes ago
People are called rapists before trial and the people who call for calm until there is a complete picture are called rapist sympathisers.
This toxicity is the part of JA606 I don't miss.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but it is ever so macho to get your pitchfork out.
I know a footballer that was accused of rape. Never reached a criminal court but he was about to be hounded out his team and deported but six figures of lawyer fees and other investigations revealed the girl had both done it to another sportsman and confided to a friend that it was her plan all along so it never got as far as a police investigation but there are lots of weirdos out there with spurious intentions.
That said, every case is different. This one is extraordinary viz the alleged evidence. Hope the lad can sort it all out and still pursue his trade somewhere.
posted on 22/8/23
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Ohnono (U22987)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 hours, 35 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 3 minutes ago
There could be a number of explanations for the audio
Edited
Sex fetish
Not him
MG was charged with rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The police, the club and the Harriets family have all come to the same conclusion that he is innocent of those charges.
The statement also says Harriet wants anonymity.
It seems people are willing to speculate about MG being guilty but not willing to speculate that Harriet may have manipulated the audio or lied about the pictures of her injuries.
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The police didn’t come to the conclusion he was innocent of the charges, the CPS felt they no longer had a realistic prospect of conviction due to the withdrawal of key witnesses and new evidence that came to light.
I don’t think people are speculating as such either, they’re basing an opinion on what is in the public domain, which is the audio recording and that the CPS spent several months believing they did have a realistic proposition of conviction with key witnesses willing to testify to the extent they brought the charges in the first place.
If Greenwood or the club really wanted a route to return to playing for United, the only way they could do that was address those points publicly. There may well be entirely valid reasons why they’ve chosen not to that do prove his innocence, but whatever they are all of this is still ultimately the consequence of things getting into the public domain in the first place that need to be addressed if he really wanst public redemption and to fully clear himself of any wrongdoing.
Whichever way you speculate isn’t good though. The scenario you pose, would you marry someone and want to have and bring a child up with them if they had manipulated audio and fabricated injuries that led to you being charged with incredibly serious offences and have a high likelihood of ruining your career…? That doesn’t sound particularly credible either.
That’s why the only way out of it was always going to be a public explanation. That or the consequences that have happened today and for him to hope to rebuild his career elsewhere as much as he can less under the spotlight.
Personally I hope whatever the reasons and circumstances that led to all of this, the child they’re bringing into the world grows up with a stable family life and two loving parents.
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The CPS decision to drop the case came 10 months after the alleged 'victim' asked them to drop the case. This suggests it is the new information / evidence that played a significant part in their decision.
People are speculating.
The alleged 'victim' asked the case be dropped 10 months before it was.
She has since agreed to marry him and had his child.
The CPS, quoting new information, decided they had no chance of a conviction.
The club have referred to information not in the public domain and stated they do not believe he did what he was acused of.
Her family are in agreement with the CPS and clubs findings.
Despite all of the above we still have those that judged him immediately, refusing to accept they were wrong, and throwing the 'victim' her family, the club under the bus in order to support their position
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Was it the alleged victim? I think I only heard them say 'key witness'? Or is it more speculation?
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Yes, it was the alleged 'victim'
posted on 22/8/23
When you’re in a hole stop digging. Apparently United not familiar with principle.
posted on 22/8/23
The aim was to complete the investigation ahead of the new season and thus provide clarity to manager Erik ten Hag, who was keen to plan for the forthcoming campaign.
The crux of the investigation was to decipher what had actually happened. Although the alleged victim declined to co-operate — as she had eventually done with the Crown Prosecution Service — her mother spoke to United with her blessing. Later in the process, when United had drafted their findings, both were given the opportunity to comment or correct any of what the club believed were the facts of the matter. No such clarification was forthcoming.
United were quick to establish that the social media content that triggered Greenwood’s arrest — a mixture of photographs and harrowing audio clips — was posted in the early hours of the morning after the striker had ended his relationship with the alleged victim. The content included pictures which appeared to show a woman with a number of injuries. One featured the woman with blood flowing from her mouth and was accompanied by a caption which read: ‘To everyone who wants to know what Mason Greenwood actually does to me.’ A disturbing audio file was also uploaded in which a male voice could be heard trying to coerce a distressed female into having sex.
United asked for — and were given — explanations behind those posts and were satisfied that no physical abuse took place, a finding that was not disputed by the alleged victim’s family.
They also found that Greenwood had not subjected the woman to coercive control, following conversations with her mother, and that the audio clip was an excerpt from a lengthier exchange.
They say they cannot share that additional footage. Police arrested Greenwood later on the day the content was posted, but United’s review found that they had acted after being made aware of the posts, and not following a complaint from the alleged victim.
United then examined Greenwood’s behaviour with the police following his arrest and found that he handed over his devices and passwords so officers could fully examine them. In April of last year, around three months after Greenwood’s arrest, the alleged victim withdrew both her allegations and her support of the investigation.
However, in October, the CPS charged Greenwood with attempted rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour.
The crux of the club's investigation was ultimately to decipher what had actually happened
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The crux of the club's investigation was ultimately to decipher what had actually happened
Greenwood saw charges of attempted rape and assault against him dropped earlier this year
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Greenwood saw charges of attempted rape and assault against him dropped earlier this year
The police and CPS worked together for a year to build a case. However, following the withdrawal of key witnesses and the coming to light of new evidence, they decided that a conviction was unlikely and in February of this year withdrew those charges, dumping the matter on United’s doorstep.
Over the course of their subsequent inquiries United were left confident that the social media posts represented a small fraction of the evidence considered by the CPS and, as such, did not paint a full picture of the situation.
The court of public opinion was then taken into account. United examined various scenarios and the likely reactions. Whether Greenwood could pull on a red shirt again without proving to be a hugely damaging distraction was part of the discussion, as was the likely reaction from media outlets and domestic abuse charities.
posted on 22/8/23
There we go.
The CPS continued to pursue a case without the victims cocoperation, until new evidence came to light, which made a conviction, unlikely.
It seems that unless they get all the gory details, those that branded Greenwood a 'nonce' are happy with that position.
posted on 22/8/23
. I just absolutely hate the mob mentality which is conjured up whenever something like this happens.
People are called rapists before trial and the people who call for calm until there is a complete picture are called rapist sympathisers.
This toxicity is the part of JA606 I don't miss.
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well, Amen to that.
Its the nature of social media. Its vile.
posted on 22/8/23
Very few have called him a racist.
Most found the non refuted recording enough.
posted on 22/8/23
People are called rapists before trial and the people who call for calm until there is a complete picture are called rapist sympathisers.
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And after the clubs come out and stated they're confident he didn't commit the offence.
As I stated earlier it's why depp had to spend years getting dragged through the mud clearing his name after that video of him slamming kitchen doors was leaked by his gaslighting wife. Yet still people think a statement by Greenwood would make any difference.
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