FSG haven't failed in their bids for players, they've provided the funds and put people into jobs to come up with and get the players those people want. So no idea how any of this can be blamed on our must successful owners for over three decades.
——/
I wouldn’t dispute that FSG have done some great things for the club, but they have also failed to capitalise when we have been winning the big trophies, I just happen to think that a little more financial risk would have brought continued success as opposed to dropping out of the top four.
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
comment by Aggers Right Elbow (U3402)
posted 3 minutes ago
FSG haven't failed in their bids for players, they've provided the funds and put people into jobs to come up with and get the players those people want. So no idea how any of this can be blamed on our must successful owners for over three decades.
——/
I wouldn’t dispute that FSG have done some great things for the club, but they have also failed to capitalise when we have been winning the big trophies, I just happen to think that a little more financial risk would have brought continued success as opposed to dropping out of the top four.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have they? You mean Liverpool have a god given right to win loads of trophies every season? You mean ptjer clubs aren't also trying to win trophies? You mean if all clubs don't win trophies every season then they've failed? How is that possible?
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so?
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve never been a fan of the idea that owners sitting on an asset that is growing hugely in value with little to no risk or investment themselves is a good thing or should be particularly lauded.
I’ve long been an advocate of resetting to pre eighties rules on ownership though.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve never been a fan of the idea that owners sitting on an asset that is growing hugely in value with little to no risk or investment themselves is a good thing or should be particularly lauded.
I’ve long been an advocate of resetting to pre eighties rules on ownership though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have invested hundreds of millions in buying the club and other expenses and input. Having thus invested, the normal step is an owner strategically grows the business and outcompetes his competitors, at which we are the best if you exclude the sugar daddy clubs.
The idea that you have to constantly take money from other sources of income/state revenues to bankroll a football club is absurd and exactly why football is poisoned by that mentality.
So you call it "sitting on an investment" because that sets up your point very well, it's a clever false premise. It's not sitting on an asset. It's called growing an asset after what would be sufficient investment in a normal and organic environment, and the owners are responsible for that growth in value from 300m to probably 4b by now.
Isn't that what any investor/shareholder/stakeholder/fan would want to see? There's like a developing argument that that isn't the framework we should be implementing and that owners should, or are even obligated to fund transfers from their pockets.
“The idea that you have to constantly take money from other sources of income/state revenues to bankroll a football club is absurd and exactly why football is poisoned by that mentality.“
You’re missing my point completely (and confusing revenue with equity).
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put more money into United than you do Liverpool and have the audacity to criticise. You’re a confused shambles.
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put more money into United than you do Liverpool and have the audacity to criticise. You’re a confused shambles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More lies. Not really sure what your angle is but if lying on a Internet forum is a thing for you then good luck
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put more money into United than you do Liverpool and have the audacity to criticise. You’re a confused shambles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More lies. Not really sure what your angle is but if lying on a Internet forum is a thing for you then good luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You live in Manchester, so if you don’t understand my point then that’s on you.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put more money into United than you do Liverpool and have the audacity to criticise. You’re a confused shambles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More lies. Not really sure what your angle is but if lying on a Internet forum is a thing for you then good luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You live in Manchester, so if you don’t understand my point then that’s on you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve McManman also lives in Manchester too and our kids go to the same school.
Again another stupid point made by you
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve never been a fan of the idea that owners sitting on an asset that is growing hugely in value with little to no risk or investment themselves is a good thing or should be particularly lauded.
I’ve long been an advocate of resetting to pre eighties rules on ownership though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have invested hundreds of millions in buying the club and other expenses and input. Having thus invested, the normal step is an owner strategically grows the business and outcompetes his competitors, at which we are the best if you exclude the sugar daddy clubs.
The idea that you have to constantly take money from other sources of income/state revenues to bankroll a football club is absurd and exactly why football is poisoned by that mentality.
So you call it "sitting on an investment" because that sets up your point very well, it's a clever false premise. It's not sitting on an asset. It's called growing an asset after what would be sufficient investment in a normal and organic environment, and the owners are responsible for that growth in value from 300m to probably 4b by now.
Isn't that what any investor/shareholder/stakeholder/fan would want to see? There's like a developing argument that that isn't the framework we should be implementing and that owners should, or are even obligated to fund transfers from their pockets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FSG bought the club for a snip. It's worth x10 times what they paid. They struck gold bringing in Klopp and selling Coutinho. They deserve credit, but the as it stands this looks like another summer window wasted after a promising start. Not for the first time either.
Less than a week to go. If nothing changes then there will be a lot of anger and justified questions coming their way from the fans.
comment by Pâî§Lë¥'š _P䆆ê®ÑëÐ_ÐrÊåm§ (U1541)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve never been a fan of the idea that owners sitting on an asset that is growing hugely in value with little to no risk or investment themselves is a good thing or should be particularly lauded.
I’ve long been an advocate of resetting to pre eighties rules on ownership though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have invested hundreds of millions in buying the club and other expenses and input. Having thus invested, the normal step is an owner strategically grows the business and outcompetes his competitors, at which we are the best if you exclude the sugar daddy clubs.
The idea that you have to constantly take money from other sources of income/state revenues to bankroll a football club is absurd and exactly why football is poisoned by that mentality.
So you call it "sitting on an investment" because that sets up your point very well, it's a clever false premise. It's not sitting on an asset. It's called growing an asset after what would be sufficient investment in a normal and organic environment, and the owners are responsible for that growth in value from 300m to probably 4b by now.
Isn't that what any investor/shareholder/stakeholder/fan would want to see? There's like a developing argument that that isn't the framework we should be implementing and that owners should, or are even obligated to fund transfers from their pockets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FSG bought the club for a snip. It's worth x10 times what they paid. They struck gold bringing in Klopp and selling Coutinho. They deserve credit, but the as it stands this looks like another summer window wasted after a promising start. Not for the first time either.
Less than a week to go. If nothing changes then there will be a lot of anger and justified questions coming their way from the fans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn't worth 10 times what they paid when they bought the club, but being smart businessmen they saw the unfulfilled potential and went for it, making it clear from the start what the plan would be.
They didn't strike gold with Klopp and Coutinho, that implies they got lucky which is a disservice to them. They played a masterstroke. Don't know why it's hard for a Liverpool fan to accept that
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put more money into United than you do Liverpool and have the audacity to criticise. You’re a confused shambles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More lies. Not really sure what your angle is but if lying on a Internet forum is a thing for you then good luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You live in Manchester, so if you don’t understand my point then that’s on you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve McManman also lives in Manchester too and our kids go to the same school.
Again another stupid point made by you
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s ok if you don’t understand…..
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with what he put there? He’s right to say that a significant amount of our transfer activity was covered by equity and none has been since. That’s in part down to the revenue growth but also because we’ve been buying and selling well too.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with what he put there? He’s right to say that a significant amount of our transfer activity was covered by equity and none has been since. That’s in part down to the revenue growth but also because we’ve been buying and selling well too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a misrepresentation imo. The amount you’ve had put in has allowed you to get to this position. You haven’t achieved it organically, but artificially.
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with what he put there? He’s right to say that a significant amount of our transfer activity was covered by equity and none has been since. That’s in part down to the revenue growth but also because we’ve been buying and selling well too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a misrepresentation imo. The amount you’ve had put in has allowed you to get to this position. You haven’t achieved it organically, but artificially.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You obviously missed the 'pre 2016' part of my short sentence then.
No one's denying our owners funded the club during the first few years of the their tenure but in the process they've more than quadrupled the value of our 'brand'.
If they sold up tomorrow they'd make a big, fat profit. Thankfully there's no rumours of them doing that anytime soon.
I really don't get this 'organic' crap, what was 'organic' about the Moores family bankrolling Shankley all those decades ago?
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with what he put there? He’s right to say that a significant amount of our transfer activity was covered by equity and none has been since. That’s in part down to the revenue growth but also because we’ve been buying and selling well too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a misrepresentation imo. The amount you’ve had put in has allowed you to get to this position. You haven’t achieved it organically, but artificially.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You obviously missed the 'pre 2016' part of my short sentence then.
No one's denying our owners funded the club during the first few years of the their tenure but in the process they've more than quadrupled the value of our 'brand'.
If they sold up tomorrow they'd make a big, fat profit. Thankfully there's no rumours of them doing that anytime soon.
I really don't get this 'organic' crap, what was 'organic' about the Moores family bankrolling Shankley all those decades ago?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s all this pre 2016 crap? Without that, you wouldn’t be where you are now. It really is that simple.
Why are you trying to separate City into pre 2016 and after? That’s really daft.
What’s all this pre 2016 crap? Without that, you wouldn’t be where you are now. It really is that simple.
Why are you trying to separate City into pre 2016 and after? That’s really daft.
---------------------------------------------
Because one of the comments tried to compare present City with the big spending of 10 years ago.
Whilst at the same time bemoaning FSG's lack of spending.
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 8 hours, 43 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with what he put there? He’s right to say that a significant amount of our transfer activity was covered by equity and none has been since. That’s in part down to the revenue growth but also because we’ve been buying and selling well too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a misrepresentation imo. The amount you’ve had put in has allowed you to get to this position. You haven’t achieved it organically, but artificially.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You obviously missed the 'pre 2016' part of my short sentence then.
No one's denying our owners funded the club during the first few years of the their tenure but in the process they've more than quadrupled the value of our 'brand'.
If they sold up tomorrow they'd make a big, fat profit. Thankfully there's no rumours of them doing that anytime soon.
I really don't get this 'organic' crap, what was 'organic' about the Moores family bankrolling Shankley all those decades ago?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s all this pre 2016 crap? Without that, you wouldn’t be where you are now. It really is that simple.
Why are you trying to separate City into pre 2016 and after? That’s really daft.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of lopsided logic comes from City fans. It's a psychological mechanism that helps them cope with their doping and ruining if football.
Sign in if you want to comment
Klopp finally calls out FSG
Page 5 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 26/8/23
FSG haven't failed in their bids for players, they've provided the funds and put people into jobs to come up with and get the players those people want. So no idea how any of this can be blamed on our must successful owners for over three decades.
——/
I wouldn’t dispute that FSG have done some great things for the club, but they have also failed to capitalise when we have been winning the big trophies, I just happen to think that a little more financial risk would have brought continued success as opposed to dropping out of the top four.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Aggers Right Elbow (U3402)
posted 3 minutes ago
FSG haven't failed in their bids for players, they've provided the funds and put people into jobs to come up with and get the players those people want. So no idea how any of this can be blamed on our must successful owners for over three decades.
——/
I wouldn’t dispute that FSG have done some great things for the club, but they have also failed to capitalise when we have been winning the big trophies, I just happen to think that a little more financial risk would have brought continued success as opposed to dropping out of the top four.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have they? You mean Liverpool have a god given right to win loads of trophies every season? You mean ptjer clubs aren't also trying to win trophies? You mean if all clubs don't win trophies every season then they've failed? How is that possible?
posted on 26/8/23
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so?
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve never been a fan of the idea that owners sitting on an asset that is growing hugely in value with little to no risk or investment themselves is a good thing or should be particularly lauded.
I’ve long been an advocate of resetting to pre eighties rules on ownership though.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
posted on 26/8/23
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve never been a fan of the idea that owners sitting on an asset that is growing hugely in value with little to no risk or investment themselves is a good thing or should be particularly lauded.
I’ve long been an advocate of resetting to pre eighties rules on ownership though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have invested hundreds of millions in buying the club and other expenses and input. Having thus invested, the normal step is an owner strategically grows the business and outcompetes his competitors, at which we are the best if you exclude the sugar daddy clubs.
The idea that you have to constantly take money from other sources of income/state revenues to bankroll a football club is absurd and exactly why football is poisoned by that mentality.
So you call it "sitting on an investment" because that sets up your point very well, it's a clever false premise. It's not sitting on an asset. It's called growing an asset after what would be sufficient investment in a normal and organic environment, and the owners are responsible for that growth in value from 300m to probably 4b by now.
Isn't that what any investor/shareholder/stakeholder/fan would want to see? There's like a developing argument that that isn't the framework we should be implementing and that owners should, or are even obligated to fund transfers from their pockets.
posted on 26/8/23
“The idea that you have to constantly take money from other sources of income/state revenues to bankroll a football club is absurd and exactly why football is poisoned by that mentality.“
You’re missing my point completely (and confusing revenue with equity).
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
posted on 26/8/23
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put more money into United than you do Liverpool and have the audacity to criticise. You’re a confused shambles.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put more money into United than you do Liverpool and have the audacity to criticise. You’re a confused shambles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More lies. Not really sure what your angle is but if lying on a Internet forum is a thing for you then good luck
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
posted on 26/8/23
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put more money into United than you do Liverpool and have the audacity to criticise. You’re a confused shambles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More lies. Not really sure what your angle is but if lying on a Internet forum is a thing for you then good luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You live in Manchester, so if you don’t understand my point then that’s on you.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put more money into United than you do Liverpool and have the audacity to criticise. You’re a confused shambles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More lies. Not really sure what your angle is but if lying on a Internet forum is a thing for you then good luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You live in Manchester, so if you don’t understand my point then that’s on you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve McManman also lives in Manchester too and our kids go to the same school.
Again another stupid point made by you
posted on 26/8/23
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve never been a fan of the idea that owners sitting on an asset that is growing hugely in value with little to no risk or investment themselves is a good thing or should be particularly lauded.
I’ve long been an advocate of resetting to pre eighties rules on ownership though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have invested hundreds of millions in buying the club and other expenses and input. Having thus invested, the normal step is an owner strategically grows the business and outcompetes his competitors, at which we are the best if you exclude the sugar daddy clubs.
The idea that you have to constantly take money from other sources of income/state revenues to bankroll a football club is absurd and exactly why football is poisoned by that mentality.
So you call it "sitting on an investment" because that sets up your point very well, it's a clever false premise. It's not sitting on an asset. It's called growing an asset after what would be sufficient investment in a normal and organic environment, and the owners are responsible for that growth in value from 300m to probably 4b by now.
Isn't that what any investor/shareholder/stakeholder/fan would want to see? There's like a developing argument that that isn't the framework we should be implementing and that owners should, or are even obligated to fund transfers from their pockets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FSG bought the club for a snip. It's worth x10 times what they paid. They struck gold bringing in Klopp and selling Coutinho. They deserve credit, but the as it stands this looks like another summer window wasted after a promising start. Not for the first time either.
Less than a week to go. If nothing changes then there will be a lot of anger and justified questions coming their way from the fans.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Pâî§Lë¥'š _P䆆ê®ÑëÐ_ÐrÊåm§ (U1541)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by K7-0ptimus Primal (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan (U1217)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by WorkPermitPending (U1067)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
This thread is a real good example of how financial doping has poisoned English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading through, I’d actually argue the opposite!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How so?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve never been a fan of the idea that owners sitting on an asset that is growing hugely in value with little to no risk or investment themselves is a good thing or should be particularly lauded.
I’ve long been an advocate of resetting to pre eighties rules on ownership though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They have invested hundreds of millions in buying the club and other expenses and input. Having thus invested, the normal step is an owner strategically grows the business and outcompetes his competitors, at which we are the best if you exclude the sugar daddy clubs.
The idea that you have to constantly take money from other sources of income/state revenues to bankroll a football club is absurd and exactly why football is poisoned by that mentality.
So you call it "sitting on an investment" because that sets up your point very well, it's a clever false premise. It's not sitting on an asset. It's called growing an asset after what would be sufficient investment in a normal and organic environment, and the owners are responsible for that growth in value from 300m to probably 4b by now.
Isn't that what any investor/shareholder/stakeholder/fan would want to see? There's like a developing argument that that isn't the framework we should be implementing and that owners should, or are even obligated to fund transfers from their pockets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FSG bought the club for a snip. It's worth x10 times what they paid. They struck gold bringing in Klopp and selling Coutinho. They deserve credit, but the as it stands this looks like another summer window wasted after a promising start. Not for the first time either.
Less than a week to go. If nothing changes then there will be a lot of anger and justified questions coming their way from the fans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn't worth 10 times what they paid when they bought the club, but being smart businessmen they saw the unfulfilled potential and went for it, making it clear from the start what the plan would be.
They didn't strike gold with Klopp and Coutinho, that implies they got lucky which is a disservice to them. They played a masterstroke. Don't know why it's hard for a Liverpool fan to accept that
posted on 26/8/23
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 5 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by (K̇ash) - Liverpool 7-0 Man U (U1108)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 35 seconds ago
How have they gone straight back to having Klopp run the pauper routine when we all saw the Caicedo bid?
They’re pretty much just spitting in Liverpool fans’ faces at this point. They hide behind stadium renovations that they’re only doing so they get a bigger fee when they eventually sell up.
They are an absolute disgrace.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get ready for the communist Merseyside abuse for this sensible comment
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Well done for outing yourself as the sad spoilt plassie that you are lad. Why would you even want to go the match and assimilate with us ‘commies’ when you can gob off on the internet about how a rich businessman you don’t know didn’t buy you the latest shiny toy.
Come up to Merseyside and gob off about commies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A plassie like me would rather see his team win trophies and compete with the best unlike a communist like you who is scared to call out the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you’re this desperate for vicarious success in your life
Kash, you obviously know fook all about the city of Liverpool. Throwing round the word ‘commie’ you obviously don’t give a shiite about the history of the city and what it’s been through over the years. It’s a shame you had to latch on to the club in the way you have. It obviously brings you no pleasure. Seriously lad fook off and support anyone else if that’s all the club means to you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s a Manc, what do you expect. A Manc that apparently supports Liverpool, that should tell you all you need to know really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the level of desperation
I am not a FSG sheep so I must be a Manc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You put more money into United than you do Liverpool and have the audacity to criticise. You’re a confused shambles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
More lies. Not really sure what your angle is but if lying on a Internet forum is a thing for you then good luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You live in Manchester, so if you don’t understand my point then that’s on you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve McManman also lives in Manchester too and our kids go to the same school.
Again another stupid point made by you
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s ok if you don’t understand…..
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with what he put there? He’s right to say that a significant amount of our transfer activity was covered by equity and none has been since. That’s in part down to the revenue growth but also because we’ve been buying and selling well too.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with what he put there? He’s right to say that a significant amount of our transfer activity was covered by equity and none has been since. That’s in part down to the revenue growth but also because we’ve been buying and selling well too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a misrepresentation imo. The amount you’ve had put in has allowed you to get to this position. You haven’t achieved it organically, but artificially.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with what he put there? He’s right to say that a significant amount of our transfer activity was covered by equity and none has been since. That’s in part down to the revenue growth but also because we’ve been buying and selling well too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a misrepresentation imo. The amount you’ve had put in has allowed you to get to this position. You haven’t achieved it organically, but artificially.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You obviously missed the 'pre 2016' part of my short sentence then.
No one's denying our owners funded the club during the first few years of the their tenure but in the process they've more than quadrupled the value of our 'brand'.
If they sold up tomorrow they'd make a big, fat profit. Thankfully there's no rumours of them doing that anytime soon.
I really don't get this 'organic' crap, what was 'organic' about the Moores family bankrolling Shankley all those decades ago?
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with what he put there? He’s right to say that a significant amount of our transfer activity was covered by equity and none has been since. That’s in part down to the revenue growth but also because we’ve been buying and selling well too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a misrepresentation imo. The amount you’ve had put in has allowed you to get to this position. You haven’t achieved it organically, but artificially.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You obviously missed the 'pre 2016' part of my short sentence then.
No one's denying our owners funded the club during the first few years of the their tenure but in the process they've more than quadrupled the value of our 'brand'.
If they sold up tomorrow they'd make a big, fat profit. Thankfully there's no rumours of them doing that anytime soon.
I really don't get this 'organic' crap, what was 'organic' about the Moores family bankrolling Shankley all those decades ago?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s all this pre 2016 crap? Without that, you wouldn’t be where you are now. It really is that simple.
Why are you trying to separate City into pre 2016 and after? That’s really daft.
posted on 26/8/23
What’s all this pre 2016 crap? Without that, you wouldn’t be where you are now. It really is that simple.
Why are you trying to separate City into pre 2016 and after? That’s really daft.
---------------------------------------------
Because one of the comments tried to compare present City with the big spending of 10 years ago.
Whilst at the same time bemoaning FSG's lack of spending.
posted on 27/8/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 8 hours, 43 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 4 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 18 minutes ago
Are you really that desperate for our owners to do the same as City and Chelsea. I know which I’d rather have thanks.
If you want that type of owner you’ve got a choice of City, Chelsea, Newcastle and possibly even United to support. Their owners will buy everything you’ve been whinging on here about over the years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Presumably you mean City pre 2016.
The club has been making a profit since then and has had zero financial input from the owners.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If someone give me £2m tomorrow I’d never ask for another penny from them and my life would be incredibly well organised and successful.
Feck me Boris, you don’t actually believe this nonsense you write, do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What part of my statement was nonsense exactly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every word.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s wrong with what he put there? He’s right to say that a significant amount of our transfer activity was covered by equity and none has been since. That’s in part down to the revenue growth but also because we’ve been buying and selling well too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a misrepresentation imo. The amount you’ve had put in has allowed you to get to this position. You haven’t achieved it organically, but artificially.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You obviously missed the 'pre 2016' part of my short sentence then.
No one's denying our owners funded the club during the first few years of the their tenure but in the process they've more than quadrupled the value of our 'brand'.
If they sold up tomorrow they'd make a big, fat profit. Thankfully there's no rumours of them doing that anytime soon.
I really don't get this 'organic' crap, what was 'organic' about the Moores family bankrolling Shankley all those decades ago?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s all this pre 2016 crap? Without that, you wouldn’t be where you are now. It really is that simple.
Why are you trying to separate City into pre 2016 and after? That’s really daft.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of lopsided logic comes from City fans. It's a psychological mechanism that helps them cope with their doping and ruining if football.
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