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These 103 comments are related to an article called:

"Brexit didn't work out" Ratcliffe

Page 3 of 5

posted on 20/5/24

What do you suggest people do, that can demand a GE but they can’t call one

posted on 20/5/24

Start a revolution, would could get the guillotine out and use it on the Tories. I nominate ja606’s very own Robbespierre to lead the revolution.

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 36 minutes ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 3 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think people want change but the British are too polite to ask for it, never mind force it. We’re a state truly controlled by the media.
____

LOL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s funny?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The country is crying out for a General Election. You must have noticed.

And we are in a State that has been lead for years by Conservative Prime Ministers and their own chronies who have been elected by less that 100,000, blue rinced, Conservative Party members. And the media that you rightly say control the country sycophantically back the Conservative Party.

That's what is what is funny about what you posted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People “crying out for it” are doing absolutely nothing about it other than perhaps posting on social media and forums.

The British public have been second place to large corporations under Labour and Conservative parties for decades and again, done nothing about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you being serious? Do you expect a revolution on the streets?


It's this lot now in GVT that people are sick of and want to get rid of. The sleeze, corruption, lying, btoken promise, scandal, lawbreaking, embezzlement, looking after their own, misuse of power and privilege, party before country, contempt and attitude of the last 10 years that people want rid of.

Don't you understand this?

posted on 20/5/24

Its crazy how much immigration has increased over the years. Labour won't do anything to fix it, so what's the point in voting

posted on 20/5/24

(I'm not directing this at any particular posters.) There are a few members of this forum who leaned rightward around the time of the 2019 General Election, who now (when the Tories are utterly discredited) take the line that all the major parties are equally compromised and the democratic process itself is flawed. I'd be more sympathetic to this view had this demographic not displayed indifference to a slew of authoritarian policies, overt hostility toward protest movements such as BLM, climate demonstrations, etc., and said nothing about constitutional reform.

posted on 20/5/24

comment by spyro-12 (U21947)
posted 10 minutes ago
Its crazy how much immigration has increased over the years. Labour won't do anything to fix it, so what's the point in voting
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are two wild thoughts:

1. If the UK electorate believed that keeping brown skinned people out of the country was the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them would have voted for a party that put that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.

2. There are areas of policy that improve or worsen general wellbeing more directly than how many new people arrive in the country.

comment by kinsang (U3346)

posted on 20/5/24

comment by spyro-12 (U21947)
posted 16 minutes ago
Its crazy how much immigration has increased over the years. Labour won't do anything to fix it, so what's the point in voting
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 2 subjects that are poorly covered and people have no real concept of - immigration and NHS.

So many backward simplistic views on both matters. The media help paint this narrative about controlling immigration and just make it a numbers game, which is just ridiculous.

And this whole NHS is free thing, and constantly throwing money at it without really addressing the issues. Of course money is needed, but one of the biggest issues with NHS is how we abuse it, whether it be not looking after ourselves generally in the long-term, or just how A&E depts are at weekends full of p*ssheads.

Until we take a grown-up view to tackling problems rather than looking for quick fixes, and a lot is on the media who just want to report a story, we will always be going round in circles

comment by Busby (U19985)

posted on 20/5/24

comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 36 minutes ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 3 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think people want change but the British are too polite to ask for it, never mind force it. We’re a state truly controlled by the media.
____

LOL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s funny?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The country is crying out for a General Election. You must have noticed.

And we are in a State that has been lead for years by Conservative Prime Ministers and their own chronies who have been elected by less that 100,000, blue rinced, Conservative Party members. And the media that you rightly say control the country sycophantically back the Conservative Party.

That's what is what is funny about what you posted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People “crying out for it” are doing absolutely nothing about it other than perhaps posting on social media and forums.

The British public have been second place to large corporations under Labour and Conservative parties for decades and again, done nothing about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you being serious? Do you expect a revolution on the streets?


It's this lot now in GVT that people are sick of and want to get rid of. The sleeze, corruption, lying, btoken promise, scandal, lawbreaking, embezzlement, looking after their own, misuse of power and privilege, party before country, contempt and attitude of the last 10 years that people want rid of.

Don't you understand this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The last time people did conduct a meaningful protest was the Iraq war and Tony Blair (yes Labour) still went ahead with the illegal invasion.

It doesn't matter whether people support a red, blue or rainbow party, our political system a mess and it all needs a refresh.

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by spyro-12 (U21947)
posted 10 minutes ago
Its crazy how much immigration has increased over the years. Labour won't do anything to fix it, so what's the point in voting
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are two wild thoughts:

1. If the UK electorate believed that keeping brown skinned people out of the country was the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them would have voted for a party that put that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.

2. There are areas of policy that improve or worsen general wellbeing more directly than how many new people arrive in the country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ain't that the truth.

posted on 20/5/24

comment by spyro-12 (U21947)
posted 31 minutes ago
Its crazy how much immigration has increased over the years. Labour won't do anything to fix it, so what's the point in voting
----------------------------------------------------------------------

'to fix it'

Care to elaborate on what 'fixing it' means to you?

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by spyro-12 (U21947)
posted 10 minutes ago
Its crazy how much immigration has increased over the years. Labour won't do anything to fix it, so what's the point in voting
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are two wild thoughts:

1. If the UK electorate believed that keeping brown skinned people out of the country was the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them would have voted for a party that put that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.

2. There are areas of policy that improve or worsen general wellbeing more directly than how many new people arrive in the country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's also mechanisms (think it is Article 8 of the EU Citizens Directive) which member states can implement to restrict immigration (such as being self sufficient, medical insurance etc).

But the UKgov chose not to implement, as it's economy relies on the free flow of labour.

posted on 20/5/24

1. If the UK electorate believed that keeping brown skinned people out of the country was the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them would have voted for a party that put that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.
=====
For this purpose, they kept facking up the country but were vehemently defended, excused and still voted for by many people even though it was clear it was all self damaging. Then they made a report, which many welcomed, about how not racist the country is.

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Graham Fyfe (U1734)
posted 5 hours, 10 minutes ago
Elections shouldn't be decided on minor issues like immigration. We need to be concentrating on the core and most important issues facing the country, like should people be allowed to be trans? Hopefully that will feature heavily in the next election as it's one of the most important things we have ever faced as a country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And you say that as the first trans football fan on here

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 34 minutes ago

If the UK electorate believed that keeping brown skinned people out of the country was the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them would have voted for a party that put that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


And f the UK electorate believe that keeping the Tory party out of power is the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them will vote for a party that puts that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.

There is absolutely zero reason not to vote Green.

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Old_Evertonian (U23158)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 34 minutes ago

If the UK electorate believed that keeping brown skinned people out of the country was the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them would have voted for a party that put that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


And f the UK electorate believe that keeping the Tory party out of power is the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them will vote for a party that puts that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.

There is absolutely zero reason not to vote Green.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, our electoral system makes things more complicated than that. I prefer the Green party to Labour, but in my constituency, the next MP will either be Labour or Conservative. The fact that our Labour MP is on the left of the Labour party makes it an easier pill to swallow.

Anyway, in my view the single most important thing any new government could do is introduce a proportionate electoral system, which enables us all to vote for parties we genuinely support, knowing our votes actually count, rather than lesser evils.

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago


Anyway, in my view the single most important thing any new government could do is introduce a proportionate electoral system, which enables us all to vote for parties we genuinely support, knowing our votes actually count, rather than lesser evils.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Green will introduce PR. I very much doubt Labour will.

comment by Busby (U19985)

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 34 minutes ago

If the UK electorate believed that keeping brown skinned people out of the country was the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them would have voted for a party that put that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.
_______________________________________

Not sure what brown people have to do with it RR.

Net migration has been very high (partially down to the Ukraine war) and some public services are really struggling as are young people trying to get on the market.

I've no issue with immigration, and I'm aware it's necessary to fulfil skills our labour force lack. However I don't see too much being done to counteract that, young people are still being encouraged to get into an oversaturated professional services market instead of a trade or the NHS.

comment by kinsang (U3346)

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Old_Evertonian (U23158)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 34 minutes ago

If the UK electorate believed that keeping brown skinned people out of the country was the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them would have voted for a party that put that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


And f the UK electorate believe that keeping the Tory party out of power is the single highest national priority, perhaps a plurality of them will vote for a party that puts that aim above a strong economy, functioning healthcare, etc.

There is absolutely zero reason not to vote Green.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, our electoral system makes things more complicated than that. I prefer the Green party to Labour, but in my constituency, the next MP will either be Labour or Conservative. The fact that our Labour MP is on the left of the Labour party makes it an easier pill to swallow.

Anyway, in my view the single most important thing any new government could do is introduce a proportionate electoral system, which enables us all to vote for parties we genuinely support, knowing our votes actually count, rather than lesser evils.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have banged on about this for ages, and it's one of the main reasons that I'm not that bothered if I vote these days. Who wins the election is decided by a few hundred thousand folk who live in the right area.

First past the post system is wanted by those who are just interested in power. Most countries have hung parliaments, and just get on with it, I wish we would do the same.

posted on 20/5/24

comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 16 minutes ago

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have banged on about this for ages, and it's one of the main reasons that I'm not that bothered if I vote these days. Who wins the election is decided by a few hundred thousand folk who live in the right area.

First past the post system is wanted by those who are just interested in power. Most countries have hung parliaments, and just get on with it, I wish we would do the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you feel good about a party vote for them, if you don't feel good about any then don't vote.

It would be terribly difficult to live with if you vote for party as a tactical vote and they damage the Country further.

Green want PR, UBI and four day working weeks. This aligns with my values over the distribution power and wealth. I couldn't care less whether it's a 'wasted vote' as Labour do nothing for me.

comment by kinsang (U3346)

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Old_Evertonian (U23158)
posted 58 seconds ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 16 minutes ago

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have banged on about this for ages, and it's one of the main reasons that I'm not that bothered if I vote these days. Who wins the election is decided by a few hundred thousand folk who live in the right area.

First past the post system is wanted by those who are just interested in power. Most countries have hung parliaments, and just get on with it, I wish we would do the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you feel good about a party vote for them, if you don't feel good about any then don't vote.

It would be terribly difficult to live with if you vote for party as a tactical vote and they damage the Country further.

Green want PR, UBI and four day working weeks. This aligns with my values over the distribution power and wealth. I couldn't care less whether it's a 'wasted vote' as Labour do nothing for me.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the thing though. Until we get PR, then most votes don't actually mean that much. I have voted for various parties over the years, but it's always ended up with the same party in my area getting in under the current rules.
I wouldn't say I feel strongly towards any party, but it's the fact that the system we have in place doesn't really give full effect to my vote is what seems pretty pointless

posted on 20/5/24

If you vote for something you believe in then it's not a wasted vote, you've done something which aligns with your own values.

In your case you feel strongly about PR so pick party that aligns with that. You don't know whether that single vote will inspire someone to carry on campaigning for what they believe in and have repercussions down the line.

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 36 minutes ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 3 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think people want change but the British are too polite to ask for it, never mind force it. We’re a state truly controlled by the media.
____

LOL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s funny?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The country is crying out for a General Election. You must have noticed.

And we are in a State that has been lead for years by Conservative Prime Ministers and their own chronies who have been elected by less that 100,000, blue rinced, Conservative Party members. And the media that you rightly say control the country sycophantically back the Conservative Party.

That's what is what is funny about what you posted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People “crying out for it” are doing absolutely nothing about it other than perhaps posting on social media and forums.

The British public have been second place to large corporations under Labour and Conservative parties for decades and again, done nothing about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you being serious? Do you expect a revolution on the streets?


It's this lot now in GVT that people are sick of and want to get rid of. The sleeze, corruption, lying, btoken promise, scandal, lawbreaking, embezzlement, looking after their own, misuse of power and privilege, party before country, contempt and attitude of the last 10 years that people want rid of.

Don't you understand this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The last time people did conduct a meaningful protest was the Iraq war and Tony Blair (yes Labour) still went ahead with the illegal invasion.

It doesn't matter whether people support a red, blue or rainbow party, our political system a mess and it all needs a refresh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesnt it just needs right honourable mps and ministers to be as honourable as we expect them to be and not abuse their powers. Dont try and put oppositon MPs in the same bad apple barrell as the present govermment. Its the Tory party that is broken, not Parliamemt.

posted on 20/5/24

Old_Evertonian, everyone has to make up their own mind on whether to prioritise their vote having a chance of influencing who gets in power vs voting in line with their convictions. I've landed on either side of that dilemma over the years. Usually it comes down to how big I see the substantive differences between the parties that might come to power and what the stakes are.

I'm not very keen on the current Labour party, but I think the Left can be quite conceited in its disdain for insufficiently radical centre-left parties - and it can be complacent in assuming there's therefore no significant difference between Labour and the Tories. If Labour are currently a centrist party, the Conservative party has adopted a radical right agenda in so many policy areas, along with previously unthinkable corruption and an authoritarian drift in relation to control of media, constraining the justice system, rights to protest and strike, and access to vote. As in the States, I believe there is a genuine threat to our democracy, and that we're only one or two more Tory victories away from a far more brutally unequal, unjust and unsustainable regime. Things can always get significantly worse, and in my view, right now, we're better off with a change of government and lobbying our Labour MPs to push further to the left and to respect the will of the Labour membership on PR.

comment by Busby (U19985)

posted on 20/5/24

comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 36 minutes ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 3 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by RB&W -Same Place-Same Club-Same Man (U21434)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think people want change but the British are too polite to ask for it, never mind force it. We’re a state truly controlled by the media.
____

LOL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What’s funny?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The country is crying out for a General Election. You must have noticed.

And we are in a State that has been lead for years by Conservative Prime Ministers and their own chronies who have been elected by less that 100,000, blue rinced, Conservative Party members. And the media that you rightly say control the country sycophantically back the Conservative Party.

That's what is what is funny about what you posted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People “crying out for it” are doing absolutely nothing about it other than perhaps posting on social media and forums.

The British public have been second place to large corporations under Labour and Conservative parties for decades and again, done nothing about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you being serious? Do you expect a revolution on the streets?


It's this lot now in GVT that people are sick of and want to get rid of. The sleeze, corruption, lying, btoken promise, scandal, lawbreaking, embezzlement, looking after their own, misuse of power and privilege, party before country, contempt and attitude of the last 10 years that people want rid of.

Don't you understand this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The last time people did conduct a meaningful protest was the Iraq war and Tony Blair (yes Labour) still went ahead with the illegal invasion.

It doesn't matter whether people support a red, blue or rainbow party, our political system a mess and it all needs a refresh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesnt it just needs right honourable mps and ministers to be as honourable as we expect them to be and not abuse their powers. Dont try and put oppositon MPs in the same bad apple barrell as the present govermment. Its the Tory party that is broken, not Parliamemt.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree the tories are in a mess, I’ve never said otherwise. I wouldn’t expect too much change from Starmer though.

comment by kinsang (U3346)

posted on 20/5/24

comment by Old_Evertonian (U23158)
posted 17 minutes ago
If you vote for something you believe in then it's not a wasted vote, you've done something which aligns with your own values.

In your case you feel strongly about PR so pick party that aligns with that. You don't know whether that single vote will inspire someone to carry on campaigning for what they believe in and have repercussions down the line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me it doesn't work like that. Until PR actually comes in, just going round in circles. So you would still need one of the big parties to be in favour of PR to have a chance of Parliament really giving it proper consideration and then having that system.

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