I thought EtH himself has stated that Martinez isn't mobile enough to play in midfield?
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
I thought EtH himself has stated that Martinez isn't mobile enough to play in midfield?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I heard he said that he didn't have the stamina, albeit that makes little sense to me given that sitting at the base of a midfield in a 4-3-3 shouldn't require greatly more running than at CB. And in any case, we're talking about using him as cover there when needed rather than a total repositioning.
I'd be surprised if ETH did it, but it's something I would be looking at (for what little that's worth!) given we'll need to find creative solutions to squad deficiencies that can't be resolved in one transfer window.
Berbaking, interesting comments. One thing I'd suggest is that it's still quite hard to know how much of what Mainoo doesn't do comes from his inherent limitations, and how much is to do with playing within himself / not taking risks because he still doesn't have enough match experience to be confident about outcomes.
I think I would read the Mainoo-Rice partnership slightly differently. I don't think either of them are perfectly suited to the sitting role. Mainoo is better than Rice at setting the rhythm and recycling possession, but he hasn't shown so far the kind of distribution you want from a deep-lying playmaker. Michael Carrick he isn't. Meanwhile I think we saw more capacity for passes and dribbles to unlock defences in tight spaces in the attacking third from Mainoo than from Rice.
As I said, we'll find out in the coming years what Mainoo is really good at. There's also some scope for different outcomes in terms of his physicality as he reaches his final form, as his body his probably still growing.
Ugarte looks like a decent first step in assembling a midfield squad. That would still be a midfield that lacks technicality compared with the teams above us in the table.
Romano's just reposted a post from 28 June regarding Ugarte. This story may have legs too. Does he? Hope he does!
From what I am reading and the clear lack of attention or movement on it, I assume people think midfield is not the most important position to add? Casemiro, Mctominay, Eriksen should be at different stages of departure while we are trying to bring in 2 more midfielders (along with Amrabat and whatever version of Mason shows up) we cannot get into a new season with the weakest midfield in the league even after being blessed with Mainoo.
Focusing on Mainoo, we also know he is going to be (wrongly) burnt out this season because as it is he is undoubtedly the best midfielder on the team (with all his flaws according Souness). We must find a player to pair him. We could continue with Bruno in an inverted 9 position and add another creative midfielder beside Mainoo but we still need that brute tackling monster hovering in front of the defence, a poor mans Rodri. It is vital for our immediate future.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 18 minutes ago
Romano's just reposted a post from 28 June regarding Ugarte. This story may have legs too. Does he? Hope he does!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Copy and paste merchant
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the 100k comment, fack you Michael Edward’s and your 5m, th (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 18 minutes ago
Romano's just reposted a post from 28 June regarding Ugarte. This story may have legs too. Does he? Hope he does!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Copy and paste merchant
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I see what you did there...
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Berbaking, interesting comments. One thing I'd suggest is that it's still quite hard to know how much of what Mainoo doesn't do comes from his inherent limitations, and how much is to do with playing within himself / not taking risks because he still doesn't have enough match experience to be confident about outcomes.
I think I would read the Mainoo-Rice partnership slightly differently. I don't think either of them are perfectly suited to the sitting role. Mainoo is better than Rice at setting the rhythm and recycling possession, but he hasn't shown so far the kind of distribution you want from a deep-lying playmaker. Michael Carrick he isn't. Meanwhile I think we saw more capacity for passes and dribbles to unlock defences in tight spaces in the attacking third from Mainoo than from Rice.
As I said, we'll find out in the coming years what Mainoo is really good at. There's also some scope for different outcomes in terms of his physicality as he reaches his final form, as his body his probably still growing.
Ugarte looks like a decent first step in assembling a midfield squad. That would still be a midfield that lacks technicality compared with the teams above us in the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultimately I think Mainoo will either be a deep-lying play maker (he takes and strikes the ball similar to Thiago Alacantara + the skill & trickery), or that LCM in a midfield three (similar to Pogba due to his skill on the ball and how that can be used higher up). I think it's fair to say he's not a high-intensity all action player - that much seems obvious, and the question will be what aspect of his skillset do his managers want to most utilise. I think ETH really wants that deep-lying ball player and that's exactly how he deployed Mainoo when he introduced him to the first team in preseason last year. So I imagine that's how he'll be used. ETH certainly loves a player like that in deeper areas of midfield.
I loved Carrick - one of my favourite players. But he didn't come to us as deep-lying player. He was a little bit more of a classy all-rounder at West Ham and Spurs and he played square to Scholes a lot (who would do most of the play making) early on with us. I agree Mainoo doesn't have the expansive passing that Carrick did but then Carrick wasn't starting FA Cup and Euro finals at 19 years of age. We didn't see the fullest extent of Scholes's passing range until he sat deeper and deeper in midfield either. I've seen enough in Mainoo's passing to think he won't be a million miles away from what Carrick could do with his passing, and what he may lack in that area compared to him he'll make up for in terms of skill on the ball and the ability to evade pressure.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 4 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
We’ve got one of the weakest midfields in the league. It would be negligent to not address it this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Life would be made much easier if Casemiro suddenly remembered he's a top player and his injury hit season turns out to be a blip on an otherwise injury-free career (and if we are more compact as a team rather than leaving whoever plays in CM to perish in acres of space).
I can't imagine all three of Eriksen, Casemiro & McT will be here at the start of the season so we must be bringing at least one player in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Won’t happen. The evidence of his decline was obvious especially towards the end of his 1st season. He’s not going to miraculously improve.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 4 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
We’ve got one of the weakest midfields in the league. It would be negligent to not address it this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Life would be made much easier if Casemiro suddenly remembered he's a top player and his injury hit season turns out to be a blip on an otherwise injury-free career (and if we are more compact as a team rather than leaving whoever plays in CM to perish in acres of space).
I can't imagine all three of Eriksen, Casemiro & McT will be here at the start of the season so we must be bringing at least one player in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Won’t happen. The evidence of his decline was obvious especially towards the end of his 1st season. He’s not going to miraculously improve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mostly agree.
But, the biggest issue we had in midfield out of possession was that once our press was by-passed, the distance between the frontline and defence was huge. No midfielder can be effective in stopping attacks under those circumstances. Casemiro is at his best when he engages the opposition at close quarters in compact defensive spaces. He's a disaster when having to cover loads of ground and arrive late into challenges (often just sliding around amateurishly).
If we're more compact as a unit, we'll see an improved Casemiro, even if not the best version of him.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 4 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
We’ve got one of the weakest midfields in the league. It would be negligent to not address it this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Life would be made much easier if Casemiro suddenly remembered he's a top player and his injury hit season turns out to be a blip on an otherwise injury-free career (and if we are more compact as a team rather than leaving whoever plays in CM to perish in acres of space).
I can't imagine all three of Eriksen, Casemiro & McT will be here at the start of the season so we must be bringing at least one player in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Won’t happen. The evidence of his decline was obvious especially towards the end of his 1st season. He’s not going to miraculously improve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mostly agree.
But, the biggest issue we had in midfield out of possession was that once our press was by-passed, the distance between the frontline and defence was huge. No midfielder can be effective in stopping attacks under those circumstances. Casemiro is at his best when he engages the opposition at close quarters in compact defensive spaces. He's a disaster when having to cover loads of ground and arrive late into challenges (often just sliding around amateurishly).
If we're more compact as a unit, we'll see an improved Casemiro, even if not the best version of him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I’d agree but even then I think he had 75% successful pass rate in some games. He’s as much of liability on the ball as off of it.
Wouldn’t mind Zubimendi. We need two starting quality midfielders, though. Our current options aren’t good enough in and out of possession.
Zubimendi looks good. I agree we need 2 midfielders but likely not realistic. Maybe we can get someone on loan with obligation to buy.
I dunno if it is given it looks like a number of the few midfielders we have could be leaving. I actually think we need three midfielders so we can fack off Casemiro, Eriksen and McTominay.
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 12 seconds ago
I dunno if it is given it looks like a number of the few midfielders we have could be leaving. I actually think we need three midfielders so we can fack off Casemiro, Eriksen and McTominay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Casemiro exit isn’t looking great. Apparently Saudi interest has cooled
I’d keep McTominay unless get 25-30 mill.
Eriksen can still be useful player for someone in the right system but I doubt we’ll get much of a fee.
comment by The Process (U20671)
Yes I’d agree but even then I think he had 75% successful pass rate in some games. He’s as much of liability on the ball as off of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm unsure how much to read into that.
I did a post quite some time ago that compared his pass % for us versus for Madrid. He was averaging the mid to upper 80's for Madrid and very slightly lower for us, possibly due to just having less time on the ball in a faster league, being in a weaker team and partly maybe having been invited to be more expansive with his passing.
We know he can be loose when trying to execute first time balls etc... but the big drop off in his passing % in games last season is harder to pinpoint. I dont see why his passing would radically drop off if he were declining physically. Running, duals, injuries issues etc... sure, but passing accuracy? We were poor as a team in possession, not helped by the absence of Martinez for most of the season, Mainoo for the first third, Eriksen not really being in the team, Mount being out nearly all season, Shaw missing loads and various issues across our frontline. We were just a bit chaotic generally and our better ball-players largely missing. I'd hope to see Casemiro's passing return to something closer to his normal averages (if he stays) when placed in the context of a stronger, more cohesive team.
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Page 3 of 3
posted on 18/7/24
I thought EtH himself has stated that Martinez isn't mobile enough to play in midfield?
posted on 18/7/24
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
I thought EtH himself has stated that Martinez isn't mobile enough to play in midfield?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I heard he said that he didn't have the stamina, albeit that makes little sense to me given that sitting at the base of a midfield in a 4-3-3 shouldn't require greatly more running than at CB. And in any case, we're talking about using him as cover there when needed rather than a total repositioning.
I'd be surprised if ETH did it, but it's something I would be looking at (for what little that's worth!) given we'll need to find creative solutions to squad deficiencies that can't be resolved in one transfer window.
posted on 18/7/24
Berbaking, interesting comments. One thing I'd suggest is that it's still quite hard to know how much of what Mainoo doesn't do comes from his inherent limitations, and how much is to do with playing within himself / not taking risks because he still doesn't have enough match experience to be confident about outcomes.
I think I would read the Mainoo-Rice partnership slightly differently. I don't think either of them are perfectly suited to the sitting role. Mainoo is better than Rice at setting the rhythm and recycling possession, but he hasn't shown so far the kind of distribution you want from a deep-lying playmaker. Michael Carrick he isn't. Meanwhile I think we saw more capacity for passes and dribbles to unlock defences in tight spaces in the attacking third from Mainoo than from Rice.
As I said, we'll find out in the coming years what Mainoo is really good at. There's also some scope for different outcomes in terms of his physicality as he reaches his final form, as his body his probably still growing.
Ugarte looks like a decent first step in assembling a midfield squad. That would still be a midfield that lacks technicality compared with the teams above us in the table.
posted on 18/7/24
Romano's just reposted a post from 28 June regarding Ugarte. This story may have legs too. Does he? Hope he does!
posted on 18/7/24
From what I am reading and the clear lack of attention or movement on it, I assume people think midfield is not the most important position to add? Casemiro, Mctominay, Eriksen should be at different stages of departure while we are trying to bring in 2 more midfielders (along with Amrabat and whatever version of Mason shows up) we cannot get into a new season with the weakest midfield in the league even after being blessed with Mainoo.
Focusing on Mainoo, we also know he is going to be (wrongly) burnt out this season because as it is he is undoubtedly the best midfielder on the team (with all his flaws according Souness). We must find a player to pair him. We could continue with Bruno in an inverted 9 position and add another creative midfielder beside Mainoo but we still need that brute tackling monster hovering in front of the defence, a poor mans Rodri. It is vital for our immediate future.
posted on 18/7/24
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 18 minutes ago
Romano's just reposted a post from 28 June regarding Ugarte. This story may have legs too. Does he? Hope he does!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Copy and paste merchant
posted on 18/7/24
comment by Baz tard - Ineos your face, proud owner of the 100k comment, fack you Michael Edward’s and your 5m, th (U19119)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 18 minutes ago
Romano's just reposted a post from 28 June regarding Ugarte. This story may have legs too. Does he? Hope he does!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Copy and paste merchant
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I see what you did there...
posted on 18/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 minutes ago
Berbaking, interesting comments. One thing I'd suggest is that it's still quite hard to know how much of what Mainoo doesn't do comes from his inherent limitations, and how much is to do with playing within himself / not taking risks because he still doesn't have enough match experience to be confident about outcomes.
I think I would read the Mainoo-Rice partnership slightly differently. I don't think either of them are perfectly suited to the sitting role. Mainoo is better than Rice at setting the rhythm and recycling possession, but he hasn't shown so far the kind of distribution you want from a deep-lying playmaker. Michael Carrick he isn't. Meanwhile I think we saw more capacity for passes and dribbles to unlock defences in tight spaces in the attacking third from Mainoo than from Rice.
As I said, we'll find out in the coming years what Mainoo is really good at. There's also some scope for different outcomes in terms of his physicality as he reaches his final form, as his body his probably still growing.
Ugarte looks like a decent first step in assembling a midfield squad. That would still be a midfield that lacks technicality compared with the teams above us in the table.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultimately I think Mainoo will either be a deep-lying play maker (he takes and strikes the ball similar to Thiago Alacantara + the skill & trickery), or that LCM in a midfield three (similar to Pogba due to his skill on the ball and how that can be used higher up). I think it's fair to say he's not a high-intensity all action player - that much seems obvious, and the question will be what aspect of his skillset do his managers want to most utilise. I think ETH really wants that deep-lying ball player and that's exactly how he deployed Mainoo when he introduced him to the first team in preseason last year. So I imagine that's how he'll be used. ETH certainly loves a player like that in deeper areas of midfield.
I loved Carrick - one of my favourite players. But he didn't come to us as deep-lying player. He was a little bit more of a classy all-rounder at West Ham and Spurs and he played square to Scholes a lot (who would do most of the play making) early on with us. I agree Mainoo doesn't have the expansive passing that Carrick did but then Carrick wasn't starting FA Cup and Euro finals at 19 years of age. We didn't see the fullest extent of Scholes's passing range until he sat deeper and deeper in midfield either. I've seen enough in Mainoo's passing to think he won't be a million miles away from what Carrick could do with his passing, and what he may lack in that area compared to him he'll make up for in terms of skill on the ball and the ability to evade pressure.
posted on 18/7/24
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 4 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
We’ve got one of the weakest midfields in the league. It would be negligent to not address it this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Life would be made much easier if Casemiro suddenly remembered he's a top player and his injury hit season turns out to be a blip on an otherwise injury-free career (and if we are more compact as a team rather than leaving whoever plays in CM to perish in acres of space).
I can't imagine all three of Eriksen, Casemiro & McT will be here at the start of the season so we must be bringing at least one player in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Won’t happen. The evidence of his decline was obvious especially towards the end of his 1st season. He’s not going to miraculously improve.
posted on 18/7/24
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 4 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
We’ve got one of the weakest midfields in the league. It would be negligent to not address it this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Life would be made much easier if Casemiro suddenly remembered he's a top player and his injury hit season turns out to be a blip on an otherwise injury-free career (and if we are more compact as a team rather than leaving whoever plays in CM to perish in acres of space).
I can't imagine all three of Eriksen, Casemiro & McT will be here at the start of the season so we must be bringing at least one player in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Won’t happen. The evidence of his decline was obvious especially towards the end of his 1st season. He’s not going to miraculously improve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mostly agree.
But, the biggest issue we had in midfield out of possession was that once our press was by-passed, the distance between the frontline and defence was huge. No midfielder can be effective in stopping attacks under those circumstances. Casemiro is at his best when he engages the opposition at close quarters in compact defensive spaces. He's a disaster when having to cover loads of ground and arrive late into challenges (often just sliding around amateurishly).
If we're more compact as a unit, we'll see an improved Casemiro, even if not the best version of him.
posted on 18/7/24
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 4 hours, 21 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
We’ve got one of the weakest midfields in the league. It would be negligent to not address it this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Life would be made much easier if Casemiro suddenly remembered he's a top player and his injury hit season turns out to be a blip on an otherwise injury-free career (and if we are more compact as a team rather than leaving whoever plays in CM to perish in acres of space).
I can't imagine all three of Eriksen, Casemiro & McT will be here at the start of the season so we must be bringing at least one player in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Won’t happen. The evidence of his decline was obvious especially towards the end of his 1st season. He’s not going to miraculously improve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mostly agree.
But, the biggest issue we had in midfield out of possession was that once our press was by-passed, the distance between the frontline and defence was huge. No midfielder can be effective in stopping attacks under those circumstances. Casemiro is at his best when he engages the opposition at close quarters in compact defensive spaces. He's a disaster when having to cover loads of ground and arrive late into challenges (often just sliding around amateurishly).
If we're more compact as a unit, we'll see an improved Casemiro, even if not the best version of him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I’d agree but even then I think he had 75% successful pass rate in some games. He’s as much of liability on the ball as off of it.
posted on 18/7/24
Wouldn’t mind Zubimendi. We need two starting quality midfielders, though. Our current options aren’t good enough in and out of possession.
posted on 18/7/24
Zubimendi looks good. I agree we need 2 midfielders but likely not realistic. Maybe we can get someone on loan with obligation to buy.
posted on 18/7/24
I dunno if it is given it looks like a number of the few midfielders we have could be leaving. I actually think we need three midfielders so we can fack off Casemiro, Eriksen and McTominay.
posted on 18/7/24
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 12 seconds ago
I dunno if it is given it looks like a number of the few midfielders we have could be leaving. I actually think we need three midfielders so we can fack off Casemiro, Eriksen and McTominay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Casemiro exit isn’t looking great. Apparently Saudi interest has cooled
I’d keep McTominay unless get 25-30 mill.
Eriksen can still be useful player for someone in the right system but I doubt we’ll get much of a fee.
posted on 18/7/24
comment by The Process (U20671)
Yes I’d agree but even then I think he had 75% successful pass rate in some games. He’s as much of liability on the ball as off of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm unsure how much to read into that.
I did a post quite some time ago that compared his pass % for us versus for Madrid. He was averaging the mid to upper 80's for Madrid and very slightly lower for us, possibly due to just having less time on the ball in a faster league, being in a weaker team and partly maybe having been invited to be more expansive with his passing.
We know he can be loose when trying to execute first time balls etc... but the big drop off in his passing % in games last season is harder to pinpoint. I dont see why his passing would radically drop off if he were declining physically. Running, duals, injuries issues etc... sure, but passing accuracy? We were poor as a team in possession, not helped by the absence of Martinez for most of the season, Mainoo for the first third, Eriksen not really being in the team, Mount being out nearly all season, Shaw missing loads and various issues across our frontline. We were just a bit chaotic generally and our better ball-players largely missing. I'd hope to see Casemiro's passing return to something closer to his normal averages (if he stays) when placed in the context of a stronger, more cohesive team.
posted on 18/7/24
https://www.manutd.com/en/image/detail/leny-yoro-snapdragon-selfie
Page 3 of 3