comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 9 minutes ago
"Theatre of dreams" is a beautiful, evocative phrase when coming off the cuff from the a legendary footballer. But at some point around the time they trademarked it and started slapping it on merchandise, it lost its charm. If we're going down that path, why not just go the whole way and call the new stadium Disneyland for Adults?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Overpriced tickets, soulless corporate greed, long queues only to be disappointed. Seems pretty spot on
Everton's new stadium is costing 750m for comparison. Okay ours will be bigger but it gives you an idea of money involved as that one is still going to be around 50k capacity.
I think talks of 5 and 6bn are completely fat fetched. 2.5bn should be able to build a world class stadium on that site no problem. 3bn at a push.
Yeah, Theatre of Dreams is an awful name.
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Everton's new stadium is costing 750m for comparison. Okay ours will be bigger but it gives you an idea of money involved as that one is still going to be around 50k capacity.
I think talks of 5 and 6bn are completely fat fetched. 2.5bn should be able to build a world class stadium on that site no problem. 3bn at a push.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Spurs will be a better comparison but on a bigger scale
Unlike some on this forum, I don't have the basis to calculate accurate cost estimates for major construction and civil engineering projects.
comment by Onana what's my name? (U14210)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Everton's new stadium is costing 750m for comparison. Okay ours will be bigger but it gives you an idea of money involved as that one is still going to be around 50k capacity.
I think talks of 5 and 6bn are completely fat fetched. 2.5bn should be able to build a world class stadium on that site no problem. 3bn at a push.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Spurs will be a better comparison but on a bigger scale
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For how impressive it should be then I agree. I just think London prices makes that difficult. Wages and construction costs are much higher down there.
Old Trafford is the name of the South Manchester suburb it is located in. The stadium was originally called United Stadium, Old Trafford. But the United Stadium name was lost in time. When I was a kid in 70s we uesed to get football league ladders to put on our walls in Shoot magazine and I remember it saying the ground was calked United Stadium Oid Trafford. Which is why NewTrafford doesnt work.
Driving down the costs of construction labour is where Qatari ownership would have come into its own. Sub-contract desperately poor Nepali workers from Doha, cut corners on health and safety (which has gone mad in this country, let's face it) and confiscate their passports if they complain about non-payment of wages. And why would they complain? No one is going to die from working in excessive heat in Greater Manchester, are they?
There aren't too many companies that can afford 40-50m a year to spend on advertising a stadium.
You got the tech giants, car manufacturers , airlines and then probably Amazon. Outside of those it's difficult to see too many stepping forward with an offer for us.
Be hilarious if we got Apple. Will non supporting United fans ditch their iPhone for an android or Samsung in that case? I bet there's quite a few on this forum who would. City fans without a doubt would do. I know quite a few of them and the thought of helping out United would be too much for them to handle. 😂
I wonder if Madrid fans have boycotted Spotify.
And why would they complain? No one is going to die from working in excessive heat in Greater Manchester, are they?
-----------------------
My only other team in the world of Sport is the Miami Dolphins.
They’ve had numerous names for their stadium.
The iconic ones being the Orange Bowl, and Joe Robbie Stadium.
But, what they now is the best yet.
Hard Rock Stadium.
Now that’s an awesome name.
Red Devils Stadium. 😈
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
Driving down the costs of construction labour is where Qatari ownership would have come into its own. Sub-contract desperately poor Nepali workers from Doha, cut corners on health and safety (which has gone mad in this country, let's face it) and confiscate their passports if they complain about non-payment of wages. And why would they complain? No one is going to die from working in excessive heat in Greater Manchester, are they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very good. 😂
Brent aka Goldbridge is adamant we shouldn't be moving grounds as there's too much emotion involved. Only two ago though he was saying we should start moving home PL games to the States though to move with the times. 😂
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 9 minutes ago
Driving down the costs of construction labour is where Qatari ownership would have come into its own. Sub-contract desperately poor Nepali workers from Doha, cut corners on health and safety (which has gone mad in this country, let's face it) and confiscate their passports if they complain about non-payment of wages. And why would they complain? No one is going to die from working in excessive heat in Greater Manchester, are they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who’s to say we can’t do that anyway? Build it in Qatar then ship it over. Jim will be able to do this in half the time by pumping toxic gasses into the workers that acts like metamphetamine. We can cut down on shipping costs by hiring some Asian firm to do the shipping, just get some sign off on the roads to shut the motorways for a few months (should be fine they regularly sign off roadworks that have diversions that turn a normal 5 mile journey into something from Fitzcarraldo).
The shipping container stadium in Qatar was something else tbf. Maybe we should have got that on discount when they took it down and just made it bigger.
Would fit perfectly too at the side of the freight terminal near the ground. 😂
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Onana what's my name? (U14210)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Everton's new stadium is costing 750m for comparison. Okay ours will be bigger but it gives you an idea of money involved as that one is still going to be around 50k capacity.
I think talks of 5 and 6bn are completely fat fetched. 2.5bn should be able to build a world class stadium on that site no problem. 3bn at a push.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Spurs will be a better comparison but on a bigger scale
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For how impressive it should be then I agree. I just think London prices makes that difficult. Wages and construction costs are much higher down there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But it was 5 years ago. Pre brexit. Pre covid. Pre Ukraine war, pre inflation crisis, pre interest rate hikes.
Spurs built in the perfect summer of low borrowing and low cost. Now it's the opposite.
Will they build inside the M25 ring or outside of it?
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 5 minutes ago
Will they build inside the M25 ring or outside of it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The new government is talking about reclassifying some of the land in the Green Belt so it can be built upon.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Onana what's my name? (U14210)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Everton's new stadium is costing 750m for comparison. Okay ours will be bigger but it gives you an idea of money involved as that one is still going to be around 50k capacity.
I think talks of 5 and 6bn are completely fat fetched. 2.5bn should be able to build a world class stadium on that site no problem. 3bn at a push.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Spurs will be a better comparison but on a bigger scale
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For how impressive it should be then I agree. I just think London prices makes that difficult. Wages and construction costs are much higher down there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But it was 5 years ago. Pre brexit. Pre covid. Pre Ukraine war, pre inflation crisis, pre interest rate hikes.
Spurs built in the perfect summer of low borrowing and low cost. Now it's the opposite.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you opposed to it anyway as a Spurs fan? Is it as obvious as you wanting the shiniest most impressive stadium around? It is, isn't it?
We are one of the biggest clubs in the world with one of the highest average attendances. We deserve a world class stadium.
Its not just a new foorball stadoum that Jim is dreaming of. Hes talking infrastructure too. Hotels, entertainment, restaurantd bars, transport hub. The full monty. It wouldnt get boots on the ground for years and still take 6 plus to build it all. Well past 2030. The cost of all that will be billions.by then. And its construction and Man United So think of a number and double it.
Unless we just refurb what weve got. Well. For a fraction of the cost.
RBW, I'd guess that most of the extra dining / leisure facilities of the wider area wouldn't be owned by United, and in that case United wouldn't be liable for the costs. The stadium would be the centrepiece of a redevelopment that creates a platform for wider economic development, business opportunities and regeneration. The benefits for the area and the city, the argument goes, justify support from the state in the form of tax breaks for investors and infrastructure investment that would be necessary to make the whole thing viable.
Again, I don't have any expertise in this area so it's just speculation on my part. But I assume a more modest renovation of the stadium without that more expansive regeneration plan would make it harder to create the conditions that would attract (private) investment. Could be a cheaper option that's actually harder to finance.
Why are you opposed to it anyway as a Spurs fan? Is it as obvious as you wanting the shiniest most impressive stadium around? It is, isn't it?
We are one of the biggest clubs in the world with one of the highest average attendances. We deserve a world class stadium.
--------------------------------------------------
Devonshire has made some reasonable points about the difficult borrowing environment we're in today. But it did make me smile seeing him pivot between "you'll struggle to build a stadium like we did" and "why wouldn't you want to build a stadium like ours? It's not soulless!"
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 seconds ago
RBW, I'd guess that most of the extra dining / leisure facilities of the wider area wouldn't be owned by United, and in that case United wouldn't be liable for the costs. The stadium would be the centrepiece of a redevelopment that creates a platform for wider economic development, business opportunities and regeneration. The benefits for the area and the city, the argument goes, justify support from the state in the form of tax breaks for investors and infrastructure investment that would be necessary to make the whole thing viable.
Again, I don't have any expertise in this area so it's just speculation on my part. But I assume a more modest renovation of the stadium without that more expansive regeneration plan would make it harder to create the conditions that would attract (private) investment. Could be a cheaper option that's actually harder to finance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh maybe they can separate the costs of the project with more partners involved. But Im sure the media will just use a daft single final figure to disrespect the project. With a tag line of United getting a new stadium "using public money". Especially if the whole complex appears to be 'under one roof'. I think Jim needs to publish some costed plans of various ideas with pictures asap.
RBW, I'm not sure it will be such a contentious thing, whatever the outcome. Local and national government will be aware of the optics of spending public money at a time of pressure on public finances, so I think there's very little chance of anything that could be portrayed as bankrolling the project (contrary to Baz's assumptions). Obviously, rival fans on social media and on websites like this will live in an alternative reality but that's all noise that we can filter out.
You say that Rr but Ive always thought that London chattering class has always been against anything that smacks of the Northern Powerhouse becoming an actual viable and funded thing. Even down to HS2 been cancelled. No surprise there. They are not comfortable with a northern challenge. The language Jim uses as a need for a Wembley of the North must send shivers down their spines. Im not bitter about that but it does amuse me seeing them squirm a bit.
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100,000 seater Stadium decision
Page 4 of 5
posted on 29/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 9 minutes ago
"Theatre of dreams" is a beautiful, evocative phrase when coming off the cuff from the a legendary footballer. But at some point around the time they trademarked it and started slapping it on merchandise, it lost its charm. If we're going down that path, why not just go the whole way and call the new stadium Disneyland for Adults?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Overpriced tickets, soulless corporate greed, long queues only to be disappointed. Seems pretty spot on
posted on 29/7/24
Everton's new stadium is costing 750m for comparison. Okay ours will be bigger but it gives you an idea of money involved as that one is still going to be around 50k capacity.
I think talks of 5 and 6bn are completely fat fetched. 2.5bn should be able to build a world class stadium on that site no problem. 3bn at a push.
posted on 29/7/24
Far fetched*
posted on 29/7/24
Yeah, Theatre of Dreams is an awful name.
posted on 29/7/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Everton's new stadium is costing 750m for comparison. Okay ours will be bigger but it gives you an idea of money involved as that one is still going to be around 50k capacity.
I think talks of 5 and 6bn are completely fat fetched. 2.5bn should be able to build a world class stadium on that site no problem. 3bn at a push.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Spurs will be a better comparison but on a bigger scale
posted on 29/7/24
Unlike some on this forum, I don't have the basis to calculate accurate cost estimates for major construction and civil engineering projects.
posted on 29/7/24
comment by Onana what's my name? (U14210)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Everton's new stadium is costing 750m for comparison. Okay ours will be bigger but it gives you an idea of money involved as that one is still going to be around 50k capacity.
I think talks of 5 and 6bn are completely fat fetched. 2.5bn should be able to build a world class stadium on that site no problem. 3bn at a push.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Spurs will be a better comparison but on a bigger scale
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For how impressive it should be then I agree. I just think London prices makes that difficult. Wages and construction costs are much higher down there.
posted on 29/7/24
Old Trafford is the name of the South Manchester suburb it is located in. The stadium was originally called United Stadium, Old Trafford. But the United Stadium name was lost in time. When I was a kid in 70s we uesed to get football league ladders to put on our walls in Shoot magazine and I remember it saying the ground was calked United Stadium Oid Trafford. Which is why NewTrafford doesnt work.
posted on 29/7/24
Driving down the costs of construction labour is where Qatari ownership would have come into its own. Sub-contract desperately poor Nepali workers from Doha, cut corners on health and safety (which has gone mad in this country, let's face it) and confiscate their passports if they complain about non-payment of wages. And why would they complain? No one is going to die from working in excessive heat in Greater Manchester, are they?
posted on 29/7/24
There aren't too many companies that can afford 40-50m a year to spend on advertising a stadium.
You got the tech giants, car manufacturers , airlines and then probably Amazon. Outside of those it's difficult to see too many stepping forward with an offer for us.
Be hilarious if we got Apple. Will non supporting United fans ditch their iPhone for an android or Samsung in that case? I bet there's quite a few on this forum who would. City fans without a doubt would do. I know quite a few of them and the thought of helping out United would be too much for them to handle. 😂
I wonder if Madrid fans have boycotted Spotify.
posted on 29/7/24
And why would they complain? No one is going to die from working in excessive heat in Greater Manchester, are they?
-----------------------
posted on 29/7/24
My only other team in the world of Sport is the Miami Dolphins.
They’ve had numerous names for their stadium.
The iconic ones being the Orange Bowl, and Joe Robbie Stadium.
But, what they now is the best yet.
Hard Rock Stadium.
Now that’s an awesome name.
Red Devils Stadium. 😈
posted on 29/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
Driving down the costs of construction labour is where Qatari ownership would have come into its own. Sub-contract desperately poor Nepali workers from Doha, cut corners on health and safety (which has gone mad in this country, let's face it) and confiscate their passports if they complain about non-payment of wages. And why would they complain? No one is going to die from working in excessive heat in Greater Manchester, are they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very good. 😂
Brent aka Goldbridge is adamant we shouldn't be moving grounds as there's too much emotion involved. Only two ago though he was saying we should start moving home PL games to the States though to move with the times. 😂
posted on 29/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 9 minutes ago
Driving down the costs of construction labour is where Qatari ownership would have come into its own. Sub-contract desperately poor Nepali workers from Doha, cut corners on health and safety (which has gone mad in this country, let's face it) and confiscate their passports if they complain about non-payment of wages. And why would they complain? No one is going to die from working in excessive heat in Greater Manchester, are they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who’s to say we can’t do that anyway? Build it in Qatar then ship it over. Jim will be able to do this in half the time by pumping toxic gasses into the workers that acts like metamphetamine. We can cut down on shipping costs by hiring some Asian firm to do the shipping, just get some sign off on the roads to shut the motorways for a few months (should be fine they regularly sign off roadworks that have diversions that turn a normal 5 mile journey into something from Fitzcarraldo).
posted on 29/7/24
The shipping container stadium in Qatar was something else tbf. Maybe we should have got that on discount when they took it down and just made it bigger.
Would fit perfectly too at the side of the freight terminal near the ground. 😂
posted on 29/7/24
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Onana what's my name? (U14210)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Everton's new stadium is costing 750m for comparison. Okay ours will be bigger but it gives you an idea of money involved as that one is still going to be around 50k capacity.
I think talks of 5 and 6bn are completely fat fetched. 2.5bn should be able to build a world class stadium on that site no problem. 3bn at a push.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Spurs will be a better comparison but on a bigger scale
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For how impressive it should be then I agree. I just think London prices makes that difficult. Wages and construction costs are much higher down there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But it was 5 years ago. Pre brexit. Pre covid. Pre Ukraine war, pre inflation crisis, pre interest rate hikes.
Spurs built in the perfect summer of low borrowing and low cost. Now it's the opposite.
posted on 29/7/24
Will they build inside the M25 ring or outside of it?
posted on 29/7/24
comment by Cinciwolf-----JA606 NFL fantasy champ 2023 (U11551)
posted 5 minutes ago
Will they build inside the M25 ring or outside of it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The new government is talking about reclassifying some of the land in the Green Belt so it can be built upon.
posted on 29/7/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by Onana what's my name? (U14210)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
Everton's new stadium is costing 750m for comparison. Okay ours will be bigger but it gives you an idea of money involved as that one is still going to be around 50k capacity.
I think talks of 5 and 6bn are completely fat fetched. 2.5bn should be able to build a world class stadium on that site no problem. 3bn at a push.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Spurs will be a better comparison but on a bigger scale
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For how impressive it should be then I agree. I just think London prices makes that difficult. Wages and construction costs are much higher down there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But it was 5 years ago. Pre brexit. Pre covid. Pre Ukraine war, pre inflation crisis, pre interest rate hikes.
Spurs built in the perfect summer of low borrowing and low cost. Now it's the opposite.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you opposed to it anyway as a Spurs fan? Is it as obvious as you wanting the shiniest most impressive stadium around? It is, isn't it?
We are one of the biggest clubs in the world with one of the highest average attendances. We deserve a world class stadium.
posted on 29/7/24
Its not just a new foorball stadoum that Jim is dreaming of. Hes talking infrastructure too. Hotels, entertainment, restaurantd bars, transport hub. The full monty. It wouldnt get boots on the ground for years and still take 6 plus to build it all. Well past 2030. The cost of all that will be billions.by then. And its construction and Man United So think of a number and double it.
Unless we just refurb what weve got. Well. For a fraction of the cost.
posted on 29/7/24
RBW, I'd guess that most of the extra dining / leisure facilities of the wider area wouldn't be owned by United, and in that case United wouldn't be liable for the costs. The stadium would be the centrepiece of a redevelopment that creates a platform for wider economic development, business opportunities and regeneration. The benefits for the area and the city, the argument goes, justify support from the state in the form of tax breaks for investors and infrastructure investment that would be necessary to make the whole thing viable.
Again, I don't have any expertise in this area so it's just speculation on my part. But I assume a more modest renovation of the stadium without that more expansive regeneration plan would make it harder to create the conditions that would attract (private) investment. Could be a cheaper option that's actually harder to finance.
posted on 29/7/24
Why are you opposed to it anyway as a Spurs fan? Is it as obvious as you wanting the shiniest most impressive stadium around? It is, isn't it?
We are one of the biggest clubs in the world with one of the highest average attendances. We deserve a world class stadium.
--------------------------------------------------
Devonshire has made some reasonable points about the difficult borrowing environment we're in today. But it did make me smile seeing him pivot between "you'll struggle to build a stadium like we did" and "why wouldn't you want to build a stadium like ours? It's not soulless!"
posted on 29/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 seconds ago
RBW, I'd guess that most of the extra dining / leisure facilities of the wider area wouldn't be owned by United, and in that case United wouldn't be liable for the costs. The stadium would be the centrepiece of a redevelopment that creates a platform for wider economic development, business opportunities and regeneration. The benefits for the area and the city, the argument goes, justify support from the state in the form of tax breaks for investors and infrastructure investment that would be necessary to make the whole thing viable.
Again, I don't have any expertise in this area so it's just speculation on my part. But I assume a more modest renovation of the stadium without that more expansive regeneration plan would make it harder to create the conditions that would attract (private) investment. Could be a cheaper option that's actually harder to finance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh maybe they can separate the costs of the project with more partners involved. But Im sure the media will just use a daft single final figure to disrespect the project. With a tag line of United getting a new stadium "using public money". Especially if the whole complex appears to be 'under one roof'. I think Jim needs to publish some costed plans of various ideas with pictures asap.
posted on 29/7/24
RBW, I'm not sure it will be such a contentious thing, whatever the outcome. Local and national government will be aware of the optics of spending public money at a time of pressure on public finances, so I think there's very little chance of anything that could be portrayed as bankrolling the project (contrary to Baz's assumptions). Obviously, rival fans on social media and on websites like this will live in an alternative reality but that's all noise that we can filter out.
posted on 29/7/24
You say that Rr but Ive always thought that London chattering class has always been against anything that smacks of the Northern Powerhouse becoming an actual viable and funded thing. Even down to HS2 been cancelled. No surprise there. They are not comfortable with a northern challenge. The language Jim uses as a need for a Wembley of the North must send shivers down their spines. Im not bitter about that but it does amuse me seeing them squirm a bit.
Page 4 of 5