Why are you bothered??? This is our club. What I don't like is a journalist just going round in circles restating something we already know.
Also is it against the law to have a view now? So we don't all agree with his views and the morons quote was over the top, but I find his notes amusing and sometimes he does have a point on certain things.
No, he's not at Leeds because he loves the club. How many owners are? It's as much about money and egos.

To a certain extent people confuse 'defending' with pointing out something isn't true.

You've been posting on doc's thread and accepting everything verbatim.

Whilst some of it is pure fantasy. It seems like people don't want to debate on facts.

Sol, agree. I tried to state some people mix fantasy with fact and got shot down. I want the truth but all this programme did was muddy the water.

For example people talk about £35m of debt being wiped. But if £18m was from Astor/FFS etc then this was Bates' (and friends) own money if people are right. Plus how much was football debt which had to be paid in full. From what I saw we owed Blackwell £900k, how the hell did that happen.
And before people jump on me I wouldn't want anyone to lose money this way.

'Why are you bothered??? This is our club.'

So people should only concern themsevles with things that directly affect them should they? Not a great attitude.

I'm not accepting everything verbatim either; I've been reading the various articles written on the subject in the Guardian and elsewhere.

Right. So why not challenge what patently isn't true if you're so clued up.

'But if £18m was from Astor/FFS etc then this was Bates' (and friends) own money if people are right.'

Not necessarily; whoever assumed ownership in 2005 would take on the debts as well, unless they could cut a deal with the creditors.

Sol

I'm just interested in the whole debate: that's all. I didn't realise posting on another's thread meant I accepted everything they said or that saying I'd read some newspaper articles meant I'm suggesting I'm 'clued up'.

As i said before, you're confusing people wanting to debate on facts with people defending bates.

'you're confusing people wanting to debate on facts with people defending bates'

I don't think so; the people I'm talking about are those who seem to think because Bates hasn't been found to have done anything illegal he's OK. Someone actually started a thread saying the same or similar.

U.... Your barking up the wrong tree if your attacking Pappa for his business practices because he's doing what the majority of businessmen have done for years. Accountants run an industry designed to avoid tax and often the only difference between tax avoidance which is legal, and tax evasion which isn't is the small print. The people who contradict the Bates bashers are fans who support the club and see the damage caused by attacking the owner with no realistic chance of removing him without doing serious damage to the club. So if you are soley interested in attacking Pappas business methods join the other losers in the communist party and waste your life trying to turn the tide of human nature.

(U10727)

You on the other hand want to think ill of him, because you adhere to the 'there's enough say it, so it must be true' method of convicting..

orig koppite...

great comment.... - my feelings exactly

- honestly mate, refreshing....

U..If you are offended by someone saying a person is innocent until proven guilty you're not only at the wrong club, you're in the wrong country. Since the demise of Pinochet I can't think of an obvious place to recommend but there's bound to be a Faschist run country somewhere in South America with a philosofy more to your liking.

I luv Bates i think he's article in the program are fantastic. but his opinions are his opinions, I wouldn't trust the man with my last ROLO, The way he's pricing fan out of the ground is wrong, but i do agree with the fact he wont pay over the odds to and for players,

Players dont give a dam about the club only what their take home pay is. even Howson seems to be stalling on a deal, he will say he want to stay at the club that he loves, but only if we give him the money.

Bates is running this club at a small profit, the team aren't doing so bad, if you consider there is 700m of debt in the Championship

Spot on LM!

Spot on LM!

Here here LM

comment by CasWhite (U8740)

"What I don't like is a journalist just going round in circles restating something we already know."

Cas, I don't think the target audience was the knowledgable Leeds fan, You and most Leeds fans most likely have heard/read most of the content that was in the programme. I think it might be interesting to hear what those who are less familiar with the club thought of it. Given how far away I am, I am unlikely to find out but perhaps those that are in Yorkshire can let us know what others they come into contact with thought about it.

comment by leedsmadness (U4394)

Hello LM,

A few responses to your points above:

"I wouldn't trust the man with my last ROLO,"

So why do you trust him with your club and the considerable more money that you spend than you would on a Rolo?

"The way he's pricing fan out of the ground is wrong, but i do agree with the fact he wont pay over the odds to and for players,"

If the pricing is wrong, what do you think the mid- to long-term damage might be to the fanbase and club? I agree that footballers are vastly overpaid. Taking his stance, which I am supportive of, puts LUFC at a huge disadvantage with its competitors. Additionally, I think it needs to be applied a little more intelligently as there are always a small number of players who should be compensated much better than others. Having said that, that view is purely based on circumstantial evidence as I am not privy to the details but it is supported by recent player departures.

"Players dont give a dam about the club only what their take home pay is. even Howson seems to be stalling on a deal, he will say he want to stay at the club that he loves, but only if we give him the money."

These are not Sunday morning pub players having a kick around for fun. This is their careers - short ones at that. On the flip side, just because he is a local lad who loves the club, does not mean that should be exploited by the club.

"Bates is running this club at a small profit, the team aren't doing so bad, if you consider there is 700m of debt in the Championship"

Two points here:

1) Given all that Leeds and its fans are, is a small profit achieving its potential?

2) Comparing LUFC to the rest of the Championship reminds me of the dark days of Apartheid when the SA government's response to worldwide criticism was that the blacks in SA were much better off than those in the rest of Africa. Its a fallacious argument unless you really believe LUFC is at the same level as, and comparable to, Bransley, Doncaster and Bristol City (no disrespect intended to either of them).

JonnyLosAngeles

I agree, it was aimed at everybody and his cousin, so long as they lived in Yorkshire (where Leeds is)?

Bearing that in mind, I'm sure Huddersfield Town, Bradford City, York City, Shuffled Wendy, Shuffled Untied, Baaaaaarnsley and Halifax Town fans and fans (that live in Yorkshire) who support other clubs will have been enthralled enough to sit glued to a half hour programme about the ownership of LUFC!

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Bearing that in mind, I'm sure Huddersfield Town, Bradford City, York City, Shuffled Wendy, Shuffled Untied, Baaaaaarnsley and Halifax Town fans and fans (that live in Yorkshire) who support other clubs will have been enthralled enough to sit glued to a half hour programme about the ownership of LUFC!
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I reckon quite a lot of non Leeds fans and even people outside Yorkshire will have watched or will watch it on I Player. It's an interesting story, which a lot of us would watch if it was about another club. The Leeds ownership has made front page of the Guardian atleast 2 times this year. Bates is hated among loads of non Leeds fan just cause he's a crook and a (insert swearword).

Correct Best Fans!

It is an interesting story for those interested in sports and its governance as opposed to a source of anguish and despair for those Leeds fans who recognize that ownership issues do have an effect on on-the-field performance and team success.

The big question for me is, given some very suspicious events, why haven't the issues that have been raised before, and now once again, ever been investigated? There certainly appears to be sufficent smoke for the authorities to look for fire. If they do not have a legal basis to do so, perhaps it is time parliament looked at the laws in place. Follwoing the apparently swift and quiet manner in which Mr. Bates acquired >72% of the club earlier this year, one would think there was sufficient basis to investigate this and all of the circumstances involving the 2007 administration.

I have not watched the programme yet but intend to do so later today. Perhaps some of the above was dealt with in it.

Jonny, who was the target? If it was other fans, was this so they could try to have a laugh at our expense!
At the end of the show I was left feeling, well Mr Conn got a few airmiles under his belt to tell a story that had no meat on the bones.

Given all that Leeds and its fans are, is a small profit achieving its potential? Yes. I want the club to spend it's income on the team or infastructure. If we were making big profits and not reinvesting then I would be worried.

I understand what you state about no smoke without fire. But all Mr Conn came down to say was, well all the companies were registered in offshore tax havens so Mr Bates must be involved with them all. What kind of investigation was that? Plus no law in this country will resolve this, unless you can get the firm in Switzerland to hand over their files.

I'm not sure where all this is going to end, but I just want my club to be successful whoever is the owner. When it was a plc did we know all the owners? Don't we just want a winning team, but now within our means so we don't go through the nightmare of "living the dream". Are we just synical as we don't want something to come back a bite the club in the future.