posted 13 hours, 34 minutes ago
The good, the bad, the ugly, and the unlucky?
His first season and that run after the World Cup. Let's not forget we were going all the way in 3 competitions as well as looking good for Top 4. We'd played more games than any other club in Europe and winning them in all competitions.
We won the League cup, we beat Barca in the knockouts of the Europa League, getting to the QF, and of course getting to the final of the FA Cup. Rashford was scoring for fun and there was a marked improvement in Fred playing in that more free role. Ten Hag's tenure showed real promise during that period.
The turning point for me (the bad), the single biggest setback which turned our season and I don't think we've ever fully recovered from, was the injury to Martinez in the 1st leg of Europa QF. We got knocked out, then got beat (if not battered) and struggled to win many games after. The injuries just got worse into the second season.
The ugly was the breakdown in relationship with players such as Ronaldo and Sancho. And the leeches like Martial in the squad who probably caused negativity in the dressing room. .
posted 13 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet the cup final team was set up diffetently against THs better judgement.
-----
Where are people getting this nonsense from? We had played the last 3 league games with that specific false 9 formation (2 weeks ahead of the final and clearly prepping for it) and it coincided with our best run of form. Was this also against his judgement?
Some people will just accept and stupid thing they read on the internet...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont accept many things on this internet. If you cant accept that setting up for those few games was a bit different to make us harder to play through then you had your head in the sand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the point dumbass! He set us up to be harder to beat well ahead of the cup final, so why would you think this was against his better judgement to do this on the day of the final?
The mind boggles...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasnt well before you plank. It was a couple of games running up to the Cup Final. To qualify for Europe and to win the Cup ...to save his own ass. Plus we had huge injury absentees running up to the cup final. He had to change things you moron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you fool and was it not HIS judgement to change it?
Idiot!
posted 13 hours, 30 minutes ago
Anyway, the way he played in that cup final and the games leading up wasn't really sustainable. There are only a handful of games where that approach would work for this squad due to lack of dynamism. And we saw that at the start of this season. He tried to play the false 9 for a few games but it just didn't work as most teams are already in a low block when facing us and so we couldn't create anything.
posted 13 hours, 29 minutes ago
ETH obviously didn't lack in interesting tactical ideas. His Ajax side wasn't just domestically dominant and sometimes punching well above its financial weight in Europe, but also tactically innovative, and the tactical adaptations Ten Hag made to suit the very different personnel in his second Ajax side proved he could solve problems with innovation.
Why did he fail at United? I think one factor is that in the Netherlands he always had a core of players who had a common, Dutch understanding of possession football. So he was able to introduce innovations on top of that baseline. At United he inherited a team that couldn't really do possession football and composed of a much more disparate group of footballers from different backgrounds. This raised a challenge of having to teach them what he needed from a more basic level - to build not just possession strategies but coach players on execution - and it's something he wasn't able to do.
Obviously, he also went from a club where he had financial dominance over the rest of the league to one that had a weaker squad than key rivals - AND where the strength in depth of the league (in terms of buying power and quality of footballing strategy) was far more intense. Relatively high risk approaches he might deploy at Ajax yielded less and were punished more.
This fierce competition compared to Dutch football also seemed to catch ETH between building a game model that could take us further in the future and trying to keep results afloat short-term. It felt as though he never really committed to one or the other - and perhaps didn't have clear signals from the club as to whether he should prioritise short- or medium-term.
I don't think he's a clueless bald fraud, as some believe. But he wasn't up to the very demanding challenge that United (a club that needs to catch up with rivals that are themselves sprinting forward, in the most competitive league in the world, with an incoherent squad with too many technically poor players and athletically limited players, which also kind of needs to be in the CL every year) posed.
Many of these huge challenges face the next guy, and Amorim (managing a big club in a weak league) won't have faced all of them before. Hopefully he does have the raw materials to come up with more workable tactical solutions, and above all the ability to raise the performance levels and tactical intelligence of players who are being asked to do things they haven't done before.
posted 13 hours, 25 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 3 minutes ago
This was one of Ten Hag's biggest failings IMO.
He should have made United much harder to beat in the big games by taking a more pragmatic approach. Nothing wrong with that.
Had he done that, and got us to a stage where we were just flat track bullies even, he'd still be in the job now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol maybe. But he you are right he should have tried it more often in some games
posted 13 hours, 24 minutes ago
Signings didn't work out for him. If he'd have got 3/4 more of his bigger transfers correct he might have been able to mask any other deficiencies he had which he had quite a few.
Antony being like Mane or Salah for example could have helped him tremendously. Obviously he wasn't and might be the poorest PL transfer of all time.
None of his big moves have paid off for him and that's essentially you done as a coach.
posted 13 hours, 22 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet the cup final team was set up diffetently against THs better judgement.
-----
Where are people getting this nonsense from? We had played the last 3 league games with that specific false 9 formation (2 weeks ahead of the final and clearly prepping for it) and it coincided with our best run of form. Was this also against his judgement?
Some people will just accept and stupid thing they read on the internet...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont accept many things on this internet. If you cant accept that setting up for those few games was a bit different to make us harder to play through then you had your head in the sand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the point dumbass! He set us up to be harder to beat well ahead of the cup final, so why would you think this was against his better judgement to do this on the day of the final?
The mind boggles...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasnt well before you plank. It was a couple of games running up to the Cup Final. To qualify for Europe and to win the Cup ...to save his own ass. Plus we had huge injury absentees running up to the cup final. He had to change things you moron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you fool and was it not HIS judgement to change it?
Idiot!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. It was against all he was trying to impose on United. But when its a must win you have become more pragmatic. Do you still not understand
posted 13 hours, 22 minutes ago
Why did he fail at United? I think one factor is that in the Netherlands he always had a core of players who had a common, Dutch understanding of possession football. So he was able to introduce innovations on top of that baseline. At United he inherited a team that couldn't really do possession football and composed of a much more disparate group of footballers from different backgrounds. This raised a challenge of having to teach them what he needed from a more basic level - to build not just possession strategies but coach players on execution - and it's something he wasn't able to do.
--------------------------------------------
It's not as if though we really tried to address that issue in the transfer market under him. We invested enough in the squad during his time at United to play any way he wanted and in the end he settled for a really direct and open playing style which put the midfield and defence under enormous strain.
posted 13 hours, 21 minutes ago
The ugly was the breakdown in relationship with players such as Ronaldo and Sancho. And the leeches like Martial in the squad who probably caused negativity in the dressing room. .
…..
I don’t really blame him for the Ronaldo issue. He was right on that one.
Sancho though is another matter. Both parties are to blame for that fiasco.
What I will say is that Antony should never have been playing ahead of Sancho. That was down to ETH.
posted 13 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet the cup final team was set up diffetently against THs better judgement.
-----
Where are people getting this nonsense from? We had played the last 3 league games with that specific false 9 formation (2 weeks ahead of the final and clearly prepping for it) and it coincided with our best run of form. Was this also against his judgement?
Some people will just accept and stupid thing they read on the internet...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont accept many things on this internet. If you cant accept that setting up for those few games was a bit different to make us harder to play through then you had your head in the sand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the point dumbass! He set us up to be harder to beat well ahead of the cup final, so why would you think this was against his better judgement to do this on the day of the final?
The mind boggles...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasnt well before you plank. It was a couple of games running up to the Cup Final. To qualify for Europe and to win the Cup ...to save his own ass. Plus we had huge injury absentees running up to the cup final. He had to change things you moron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you fool and was it not HIS judgement to change it?
Idiot!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. It was against all he was trying to impose on United. But when its a must win you have become more pragmatic. Do you still not understand
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now you're just going in circles
Moving on...
posted 13 hours, 20 minutes ago
I don't believe he was tactically astute. Managers who are tend to have very quick changes in the style of play and they are very effective.
posted 13 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
Signings didn't work out for him. If he'd have got 3/4 more of his bigger transfers correct he might have been able to mask any other deficiencies he had which he had quite a few.
Antony being like Mane or Salah for example could have helped him tremendously. Obviously he wasn't and might be the poorest PL transfer of all time.
None of his big moves have paid off for him and that's essentially you done as a coach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This was his primary failing. Not tactics, not lack of flexibility, not lack of personality.
Signings! Not one of his attacking recruits made a meaningful impact. So when Rashford inevitably fell off he was screwed!
Antony and Mount for 140M is a sackable offense in itself.
One can only hope Ras develops into something really great, which would ease the pain...
posted 13 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet the cup final team was set up diffetently against THs better judgement.
-----
Where are people getting this nonsense from? We had played the last 3 league games with that specific false 9 formation (2 weeks ahead of the final and clearly prepping for it) and it coincided with our best run of form. Was this also against his judgement?
Some people will just accept and stupid thing they read on the internet...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont accept many things on this internet. If you cant accept that setting up for those few games was a bit different to make us harder to play through then you had your head in the sand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the point dumbass! He set us up to be harder to beat well ahead of the cup final, so why would you think this was against his better judgement to do this on the day of the final?
The mind boggles...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasnt well before you plank. It was a couple of games running up to the Cup Final. To qualify for Europe and to win the Cup ...to save his own ass. Plus we had huge injury absentees running up to the cup final. He had to change things you moron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you fool and was it not HIS judgement to change it?
Idiot!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. It was against all he was trying to impose on United. But when its a must win you have become more pragmatic. Do you still not understand
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now you're just going in circles
Moving on...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I am not you are agreeing with the point I made about the change of style in cup final and calling me qhunt for making it.
posted 13 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson... (U12026)
posted 12 minutes ago
I don't believe he was tactically astute. Managers who are tend to have very quick changes in the style of play and they are very effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was either not tactically astute or a really poor coach... or both.
He wasn't a great man manager either, which didn't help the points above.
posted 12 hours, 41 minutes ago
Isnt the style of play determined by INEOs technical/football director
posted 10 hours, 45 minutes ago
Entirely irrelevant.
The club's direction wasn't set by ANY of the coaches/managers.
'Guided on' in an advisory manner perhaps, but that's all.
None of this has been dealt with for well over 10 seasons now, and it doesn't look like the real issues are going to be dealt with in the immediate or near future.
It's been pointed out for most of that 10+ seasons - by those, like myself, that know - that even if the club STARTED to deal with those REAL issues immediately it would still take about 4 seasons to sort out. And by "sort out", what is really meant is "catch up".
Dark times are going to remain regardless of any trendy coaches/manager changes. It's pure symbolism.
posted 10 hours, 39 minutes ago
I'm pretty sure it'll ALL be fixed a week next Thursday.
posted 9 hours, 56 minutes ago
His biggest failing was his man management.
This saw his adopt a policy of signing almost a whole team of former players/Dutch players as he would have a better connection with them.
So we've ended up signing a number of players to help him rather than the team.
posted 9 hours, 35 minutes ago
For me, the FA Cup final was a one off performance where everything went right for us on day. Don't get me wrong, ETH had a plan, the players implemented it perfectly and we got the result required, and deserve the plaudits for it.
But it was a one off game, and we don't play City every week. In other games, we would expect to see more of the ball, try to dominate the game and impose our will on other teams. We couldn't play the way against we did against City week in week out, and honestly, I wouldn't want us to.
You would have expected us to dominate at least a handful of matches against lower placed teams last season, regardless of injuries etc, but we have none of that. The entertainment factor from a purely footballing point of view was zero.
posted 8 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 5 hours, 12 minutes ago
The City final is probably my favourite single United game in a long while. Yes, what happened before or after wasn't great but that day it was a defiant United.
I'll remember that much more than finishing fourth.
That doesn't mean to say that it's acceptable long term of course but football is all about grabbing moments when we can IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't understand the need to demean the 2 cup wins
Two brilliant occasions and triumphs at Wembley that hadnt been experienced for a number of years
posted 8 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 5 hours, 12 minutes ago
The City final is probably my favourite single United game in a long while. Yes, what happened before or after wasn't great but that day it was a defiant United.
I'll remember that much more than finishing fourth.
That doesn't mean to say that it's acceptable long term of course but football is all about grabbing moments when we can IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't understand the need to demean the 2 cup wins
Two brilliant occasions and triumphs at Wembley that hadnt been experienced for a number of years
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My best ever memories of following United were at Wembley in FA Cup finals.
The semi vs Coventry however.....
posted 8 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 5 hours, 12 minutes ago
The City final is probably my favourite single United game in a long while. Yes, what happened before or after wasn't great but that day it was a defiant United.
I'll remember that much more than finishing fourth.
That doesn't mean to say that it's acceptable long term of course but football is all about grabbing moments when we can IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't understand the need to demean the 2 cup wins
Two brilliant occasions and triumphs at Wembley that hadnt been experienced for a number of years
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to think no-one is demeaning cup wins, but at the same time, it's no measure of how good a team is and if they are progressing, and that's the real issue for us.
I would still say my fav Utd moment is Whiteside's goal in the 85 cup final
posted 8 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 19 minutes ago
For me, the FA Cup final was a one off performance where everything went right for us on day. Don't get me wrong, ETH had a plan, the players implemented it perfectly and we got the result required, and deserve the plaudits for it.
But it was a one off game, and we don't play City every week. In other games, we would expect to see more of the ball, try to dominate the game and impose our will on other teams. We couldn't play the way against we did against City week in week out, and honestly, I wouldn't want us to.
You would have expected us to dominate at least a handful of matches against lower placed teams last season, regardless of injuries etc, but we have none of that. The entertainment factor from a purely footballing point of view was zero.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The FA Cup final was a great performance, but based on a game plan which was a retreat from what he had set out to build that season. In a way it represented the failure of his footballing project. Losing to City while putting in a good showing that demonstrated some nice phases of controlled possession and glimpses of 'the best transition side in the world' might have been more of a success in terms of showing how far he had developed the team. Especially if we'd also finished 4th rather than 8th.
posted 8 hours, 8 minutes ago
The win against City was the most enjoyable moment since SAF left imo.
However Cup comps are often a lottery and that's why I never judge a manager purely based on those. Possibly why I don't rate the likes of Tuchel & Ancelotti as highly as others do.
Anyway back to my point, 8 times out of 10 Liverpool would have put as away in that 2nd half in the quarter finals and we were inches away from one of the most humiliating moments in our history against Coventry.
Even in the final, as well as the game plan was executed, if City don't make that error leading to Garnacho's goal, I'm not sure we win it.
It was as much down to luck or destiny as managerial success.
posted 7 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 25 minutes ago
The win against City was the most enjoyable moment since SAF left imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ehh... For a brief period of time, United under Ole was ht epeak for me. Good attacking football, good record against the big teams, lots of goals from players we knew where sheit. Going far in competitions, albeit never winning. It was the most successful system even if it was "simple"
Us winning City reminded me of Wigan winning it all those years ago. Did not cover the manager being average then too.
Sign in if you want to comment
Reflection - the good, the bad and the ugly
Page 2 of 3
posted 13 hours, 34 minutes ago
The good, the bad, the ugly, and the unlucky?
His first season and that run after the World Cup. Let's not forget we were going all the way in 3 competitions as well as looking good for Top 4. We'd played more games than any other club in Europe and winning them in all competitions.
We won the League cup, we beat Barca in the knockouts of the Europa League, getting to the QF, and of course getting to the final of the FA Cup. Rashford was scoring for fun and there was a marked improvement in Fred playing in that more free role. Ten Hag's tenure showed real promise during that period.
The turning point for me (the bad), the single biggest setback which turned our season and I don't think we've ever fully recovered from, was the injury to Martinez in the 1st leg of Europa QF. We got knocked out, then got beat (if not battered) and struggled to win many games after. The injuries just got worse into the second season.
The ugly was the breakdown in relationship with players such as Ronaldo and Sancho. And the leeches like Martial in the squad who probably caused negativity in the dressing room. .
posted 13 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet the cup final team was set up diffetently against THs better judgement.
-----
Where are people getting this nonsense from? We had played the last 3 league games with that specific false 9 formation (2 weeks ahead of the final and clearly prepping for it) and it coincided with our best run of form. Was this also against his judgement?
Some people will just accept and stupid thing they read on the internet...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont accept many things on this internet. If you cant accept that setting up for those few games was a bit different to make us harder to play through then you had your head in the sand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the point dumbass! He set us up to be harder to beat well ahead of the cup final, so why would you think this was against his better judgement to do this on the day of the final?
The mind boggles...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasnt well before you plank. It was a couple of games running up to the Cup Final. To qualify for Europe and to win the Cup ...to save his own ass. Plus we had huge injury absentees running up to the cup final. He had to change things you moron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you fool and was it not HIS judgement to change it?
Idiot!
posted 13 hours, 30 minutes ago
Anyway, the way he played in that cup final and the games leading up wasn't really sustainable. There are only a handful of games where that approach would work for this squad due to lack of dynamism. And we saw that at the start of this season. He tried to play the false 9 for a few games but it just didn't work as most teams are already in a low block when facing us and so we couldn't create anything.
posted 13 hours, 29 minutes ago
ETH obviously didn't lack in interesting tactical ideas. His Ajax side wasn't just domestically dominant and sometimes punching well above its financial weight in Europe, but also tactically innovative, and the tactical adaptations Ten Hag made to suit the very different personnel in his second Ajax side proved he could solve problems with innovation.
Why did he fail at United? I think one factor is that in the Netherlands he always had a core of players who had a common, Dutch understanding of possession football. So he was able to introduce innovations on top of that baseline. At United he inherited a team that couldn't really do possession football and composed of a much more disparate group of footballers from different backgrounds. This raised a challenge of having to teach them what he needed from a more basic level - to build not just possession strategies but coach players on execution - and it's something he wasn't able to do.
Obviously, he also went from a club where he had financial dominance over the rest of the league to one that had a weaker squad than key rivals - AND where the strength in depth of the league (in terms of buying power and quality of footballing strategy) was far more intense. Relatively high risk approaches he might deploy at Ajax yielded less and were punished more.
This fierce competition compared to Dutch football also seemed to catch ETH between building a game model that could take us further in the future and trying to keep results afloat short-term. It felt as though he never really committed to one or the other - and perhaps didn't have clear signals from the club as to whether he should prioritise short- or medium-term.
I don't think he's a clueless bald fraud, as some believe. But he wasn't up to the very demanding challenge that United (a club that needs to catch up with rivals that are themselves sprinting forward, in the most competitive league in the world, with an incoherent squad with too many technically poor players and athletically limited players, which also kind of needs to be in the CL every year) posed.
Many of these huge challenges face the next guy, and Amorim (managing a big club in a weak league) won't have faced all of them before. Hopefully he does have the raw materials to come up with more workable tactical solutions, and above all the ability to raise the performance levels and tactical intelligence of players who are being asked to do things they haven't done before.
posted 13 hours, 25 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 3 minutes ago
This was one of Ten Hag's biggest failings IMO.
He should have made United much harder to beat in the big games by taking a more pragmatic approach. Nothing wrong with that.
Had he done that, and got us to a stage where we were just flat track bullies even, he'd still be in the job now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol maybe. But he you are right he should have tried it more often in some games
posted 13 hours, 24 minutes ago
Signings didn't work out for him. If he'd have got 3/4 more of his bigger transfers correct he might have been able to mask any other deficiencies he had which he had quite a few.
Antony being like Mane or Salah for example could have helped him tremendously. Obviously he wasn't and might be the poorest PL transfer of all time.
None of his big moves have paid off for him and that's essentially you done as a coach.
posted 13 hours, 22 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet the cup final team was set up diffetently against THs better judgement.
-----
Where are people getting this nonsense from? We had played the last 3 league games with that specific false 9 formation (2 weeks ahead of the final and clearly prepping for it) and it coincided with our best run of form. Was this also against his judgement?
Some people will just accept and stupid thing they read on the internet...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont accept many things on this internet. If you cant accept that setting up for those few games was a bit different to make us harder to play through then you had your head in the sand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the point dumbass! He set us up to be harder to beat well ahead of the cup final, so why would you think this was against his better judgement to do this on the day of the final?
The mind boggles...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasnt well before you plank. It was a couple of games running up to the Cup Final. To qualify for Europe and to win the Cup ...to save his own ass. Plus we had huge injury absentees running up to the cup final. He had to change things you moron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you fool and was it not HIS judgement to change it?
Idiot!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. It was against all he was trying to impose on United. But when its a must win you have become more pragmatic. Do you still not understand
posted 13 hours, 22 minutes ago
Why did he fail at United? I think one factor is that in the Netherlands he always had a core of players who had a common, Dutch understanding of possession football. So he was able to introduce innovations on top of that baseline. At United he inherited a team that couldn't really do possession football and composed of a much more disparate group of footballers from different backgrounds. This raised a challenge of having to teach them what he needed from a more basic level - to build not just possession strategies but coach players on execution - and it's something he wasn't able to do.
--------------------------------------------
It's not as if though we really tried to address that issue in the transfer market under him. We invested enough in the squad during his time at United to play any way he wanted and in the end he settled for a really direct and open playing style which put the midfield and defence under enormous strain.
posted 13 hours, 21 minutes ago
The ugly was the breakdown in relationship with players such as Ronaldo and Sancho. And the leeches like Martial in the squad who probably caused negativity in the dressing room. .
…..
I don’t really blame him for the Ronaldo issue. He was right on that one.
Sancho though is another matter. Both parties are to blame for that fiasco.
What I will say is that Antony should never have been playing ahead of Sancho. That was down to ETH.
posted 13 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet the cup final team was set up diffetently against THs better judgement.
-----
Where are people getting this nonsense from? We had played the last 3 league games with that specific false 9 formation (2 weeks ahead of the final and clearly prepping for it) and it coincided with our best run of form. Was this also against his judgement?
Some people will just accept and stupid thing they read on the internet...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont accept many things on this internet. If you cant accept that setting up for those few games was a bit different to make us harder to play through then you had your head in the sand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the point dumbass! He set us up to be harder to beat well ahead of the cup final, so why would you think this was against his better judgement to do this on the day of the final?
The mind boggles...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasnt well before you plank. It was a couple of games running up to the Cup Final. To qualify for Europe and to win the Cup ...to save his own ass. Plus we had huge injury absentees running up to the cup final. He had to change things you moron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you fool and was it not HIS judgement to change it?
Idiot!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. It was against all he was trying to impose on United. But when its a must win you have become more pragmatic. Do you still not understand
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now you're just going in circles
Moving on...
posted 13 hours, 20 minutes ago
I don't believe he was tactically astute. Managers who are tend to have very quick changes in the style of play and they are very effective.
posted 13 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 3 minutes ago
Signings didn't work out for him. If he'd have got 3/4 more of his bigger transfers correct he might have been able to mask any other deficiencies he had which he had quite a few.
Antony being like Mane or Salah for example could have helped him tremendously. Obviously he wasn't and might be the poorest PL transfer of all time.
None of his big moves have paid off for him and that's essentially you done as a coach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This was his primary failing. Not tactics, not lack of flexibility, not lack of personality.
Signings! Not one of his attacking recruits made a meaningful impact. So when Rashford inevitably fell off he was screwed!
Antony and Mount for 140M is a sackable offense in itself.
One can only hope Ras develops into something really great, which would ease the pain...
posted 13 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet the cup final team was set up diffetently against THs better judgement.
-----
Where are people getting this nonsense from? We had played the last 3 league games with that specific false 9 formation (2 weeks ahead of the final and clearly prepping for it) and it coincided with our best run of form. Was this also against his judgement?
Some people will just accept and stupid thing they read on the internet...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont accept many things on this internet. If you cant accept that setting up for those few games was a bit different to make us harder to play through then you had your head in the sand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the point dumbass! He set us up to be harder to beat well ahead of the cup final, so why would you think this was against his better judgement to do this on the day of the final?
The mind boggles...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasnt well before you plank. It was a couple of games running up to the Cup Final. To qualify for Europe and to win the Cup ...to save his own ass. Plus we had huge injury absentees running up to the cup final. He had to change things you moron
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you fool and was it not HIS judgement to change it?
Idiot!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. It was against all he was trying to impose on United. But when its a must win you have become more pragmatic. Do you still not understand
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now you're just going in circles
Moving on...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I am not you are agreeing with the point I made about the change of style in cup final and calling me qhunt for making it.
posted 13 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson... (U12026)
posted 12 minutes ago
I don't believe he was tactically astute. Managers who are tend to have very quick changes in the style of play and they are very effective.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was either not tactically astute or a really poor coach... or both.
He wasn't a great man manager either, which didn't help the points above.
posted 12 hours, 41 minutes ago
Isnt the style of play determined by INEOs technical/football director
posted 10 hours, 45 minutes ago
Entirely irrelevant.
The club's direction wasn't set by ANY of the coaches/managers.
'Guided on' in an advisory manner perhaps, but that's all.
None of this has been dealt with for well over 10 seasons now, and it doesn't look like the real issues are going to be dealt with in the immediate or near future.
It's been pointed out for most of that 10+ seasons - by those, like myself, that know - that even if the club STARTED to deal with those REAL issues immediately it would still take about 4 seasons to sort out. And by "sort out", what is really meant is "catch up".
Dark times are going to remain regardless of any trendy coaches/manager changes. It's pure symbolism.
posted 10 hours, 39 minutes ago
I'm pretty sure it'll ALL be fixed a week next Thursday.
posted 9 hours, 56 minutes ago
His biggest failing was his man management.
This saw his adopt a policy of signing almost a whole team of former players/Dutch players as he would have a better connection with them.
So we've ended up signing a number of players to help him rather than the team.
posted 9 hours, 35 minutes ago
For me, the FA Cup final was a one off performance where everything went right for us on day. Don't get me wrong, ETH had a plan, the players implemented it perfectly and we got the result required, and deserve the plaudits for it.
But it was a one off game, and we don't play City every week. In other games, we would expect to see more of the ball, try to dominate the game and impose our will on other teams. We couldn't play the way against we did against City week in week out, and honestly, I wouldn't want us to.
You would have expected us to dominate at least a handful of matches against lower placed teams last season, regardless of injuries etc, but we have none of that. The entertainment factor from a purely footballing point of view was zero.
posted 8 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 5 hours, 12 minutes ago
The City final is probably my favourite single United game in a long while. Yes, what happened before or after wasn't great but that day it was a defiant United.
I'll remember that much more than finishing fourth.
That doesn't mean to say that it's acceptable long term of course but football is all about grabbing moments when we can IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't understand the need to demean the 2 cup wins
Two brilliant occasions and triumphs at Wembley that hadnt been experienced for a number of years
posted 8 hours, 27 minutes ago
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 5 hours, 12 minutes ago
The City final is probably my favourite single United game in a long while. Yes, what happened before or after wasn't great but that day it was a defiant United.
I'll remember that much more than finishing fourth.
That doesn't mean to say that it's acceptable long term of course but football is all about grabbing moments when we can IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't understand the need to demean the 2 cup wins
Two brilliant occasions and triumphs at Wembley that hadnt been experienced for a number of years
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My best ever memories of following United were at Wembley in FA Cup finals.
The semi vs Coventry however.....
posted 8 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by Roy's Keane (U11635)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA606 Class Act (U2462)
posted 5 hours, 12 minutes ago
The City final is probably my favourite single United game in a long while. Yes, what happened before or after wasn't great but that day it was a defiant United.
I'll remember that much more than finishing fourth.
That doesn't mean to say that it's acceptable long term of course but football is all about grabbing moments when we can IMO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't understand the need to demean the 2 cup wins
Two brilliant occasions and triumphs at Wembley that hadnt been experienced for a number of years
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to think no-one is demeaning cup wins, but at the same time, it's no measure of how good a team is and if they are progressing, and that's the real issue for us.
I would still say my fav Utd moment is Whiteside's goal in the 85 cup final
posted 8 hours, 23 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 19 minutes ago
For me, the FA Cup final was a one off performance where everything went right for us on day. Don't get me wrong, ETH had a plan, the players implemented it perfectly and we got the result required, and deserve the plaudits for it.
But it was a one off game, and we don't play City every week. In other games, we would expect to see more of the ball, try to dominate the game and impose our will on other teams. We couldn't play the way against we did against City week in week out, and honestly, I wouldn't want us to.
You would have expected us to dominate at least a handful of matches against lower placed teams last season, regardless of injuries etc, but we have none of that. The entertainment factor from a purely footballing point of view was zero.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The FA Cup final was a great performance, but based on a game plan which was a retreat from what he had set out to build that season. In a way it represented the failure of his footballing project. Losing to City while putting in a good showing that demonstrated some nice phases of controlled possession and glimpses of 'the best transition side in the world' might have been more of a success in terms of showing how far he had developed the team. Especially if we'd also finished 4th rather than 8th.
posted 8 hours, 8 minutes ago
The win against City was the most enjoyable moment since SAF left imo.
However Cup comps are often a lottery and that's why I never judge a manager purely based on those. Possibly why I don't rate the likes of Tuchel & Ancelotti as highly as others do.
Anyway back to my point, 8 times out of 10 Liverpool would have put as away in that 2nd half in the quarter finals and we were inches away from one of the most humiliating moments in our history against Coventry.
Even in the final, as well as the game plan was executed, if City don't make that error leading to Garnacho's goal, I'm not sure we win it.
It was as much down to luck or destiny as managerial success.
posted 7 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 25 minutes ago
The win against City was the most enjoyable moment since SAF left imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ehh... For a brief period of time, United under Ole was ht epeak for me. Good attacking football, good record against the big teams, lots of goals from players we knew where sheit. Going far in competitions, albeit never winning. It was the most successful system even if it was "simple"
Us winning City reminded me of Wigan winning it all those years ago. Did not cover the manager being average then too.
Page 2 of 3