The main issue is how do we fit Palmer and Bruno into the same team?

The main issue is how do we fit Anthony and Mount into the same team?

TBF this piece on the BBC Website is a good summary are where things actually are at United for the new incoming coach, after digesting the current reality of situation after the sacking of Ten Hag last week and the first league game since vs Chelsea last night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cq52wxgd466o

Nobody actually knows what his plans will be (including any newspaper sports desk or related football journal out there) or what players he has in mind in the current squad to cancel or indeed to acquire in the next few Windows to establish and realise his own grande plan for United. What we do know is that he has got up to 2.5 years to do enough to satisfy Jim that both he and the new INEOS football structure he has to work with, get it right.

We need a miracle.

I think we've appointed a very capable manager but he's not got the tools required to meet the fans expectations. That bald fraud has left him a truly pathetic squad so he's going to have to be the next Jürgen Klopp to get us back where we need to be basically.

How on earth do we get rid of the deadwood in order to free up squad places and funds? Nobody will buy those expensive mistakes.

comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 1 minute ago
We need a miracle.

I think we've appointed a very capable manager but he's not got the tools required to meet the fans expectations. That bald fraud has left him a truly pathetic squad so he's going to have to be the next Jürgen Klopp to get us back where we need to be basically.

How on earth do we get rid of the deadwood in order to free up squad places and funds? Nobody will buy those expensive mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Let’s hope the Saudis wanna spend

comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 42 seconds ago
We need a miracle.

I think we've appointed a very capable manager but he's not got the tools required to meet the fans expectations. That bald fraud has left him a truly pathetic squad so he's going to have to be the next Jürgen Klopp to get us back where we need to be basically.

How on earth do we get rid of the deadwood in order to free up squad places and funds? Nobody will buy those expensive mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Im sure the new manager MUST have raised this issue with the club in their discussions.

comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 50 minutes ago
The main issue is how do we fit Palmer and Bruno into the same team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You sell Bruno!!!!

comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 42 seconds ago
We need a miracle.

I think we've appointed a very capable manager but he's not got the tools required to meet the fans expectations. That bald fraud has left him a truly pathetic squad so he's going to have to be the next Jürgen Klopp to get us back where we need to be basically.

How on earth do we get rid of the deadwood in order to free up squad places and funds? Nobody will buy those expensive mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Im sure the new manager MUST have raised this issue with the club in their discussions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure they did and they will have sold him club and the project.

Reality kicks in quick though..... nobody is buying Casemiro, Mount, Antony this summer. And nobody will buy Bruno and Rashford due to their wages either.

We can't sell most of these players as the only teams that can afford their wages don't want them.

comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 42 seconds ago
We need a miracle.

I think we've appointed a very capable manager but he's not got the tools required to meet the fans expectations. That bald fraud has left him a truly pathetic squad so he's going to have to be the next Jürgen Klopp to get us back where we need to be basically.

How on earth do we get rid of the deadwood in order to free up squad places and funds? Nobody will buy those expensive mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Im sure the new manager MUST have raised this issue with the club in their discussions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure they did and they will have sold him club and the project.

Reality kicks in quick though..... nobody is buying Casemiro, Mount, Antony this summer. And nobody will buy Bruno and Rashford due to their wages either.

We can't sell most of these players as the only teams that can afford their wages don't want them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Well as I said, they must have spoken about this and he still took the job. I mean hes not stupd is he? That says to me that hes either happy with them in the squad and he thinks he can get a tune out of them within his system... or Jim has promised to move on players he doesnt want to work with no matter what the financial hit will be.

comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 50 minutes ago
The main issue is how do we fit Palmer and Bruno into the same team?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You sell Bruno!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruno actually has the highest expected assists to assists in the league, he is just let down by Garnacho or Antony not picking out the striker, or the striker missing the chance.

Palmer's well publicised assist to an assist for Jackson's goal vs Newcastle that won goal of the month actually only had an xAA of 0.31 but the pace and vision of Neto and finishing meant that they scored it lol.

If we had better wingers and better finishers then our xAA stat would be much closer to our actual assist to assist stats lol

It was the same in November 2014 when Depay had the poorest assist to xA stat which cost Rooney the best xAA stats of a single match against Southampton lol I don't know why we have always just had wingers with poor xA conversions.

comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 42 seconds ago
We need a miracle.

I think we've appointed a very capable manager but he's not got the tools required to meet the fans expectations. That bald fraud has left him a truly pathetic squad so he's going to have to be the next Jürgen Klopp to get us back where we need to be basically.

How on earth do we get rid of the deadwood in order to free up squad places and funds? Nobody will buy those expensive mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Im sure the new manager MUST have raised this issue with the club in their discussions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure they did and they will have sold him club and the project.

Reality kicks in quick though..... nobody is buying Casemiro, Mount, Antony this summer. And nobody will buy Bruno and Rashford due to their wages either.

We can't sell most of these players as the only teams that can afford their wages don't want them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Well as I said, they must have spoken about this and he still took the job. I mean hes not stupd is he? That says to me that hes either happy with them in the squad and he thinks he can get a tune out of them within his system... or Jim has promised to move on players he doesnt want to work with no matter what the financial hit will be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's hope so mate.

I don't doubt Amorim's abilities and it will be very difficult for him to not get a better tune out of some of these players. So that's a positive.

I genuinely don't think some fans truly appreciate just how many poor players we have though. I don't think Guardiola would be able to work with most of them. He'd have to buy 14/15 new players if he was out coach.

What worries me most is we have people at the club now who believe / believed Joshua Zirkzee was good enough to play for us. That's a truly frightening thought and I'd go as far as to say whoever was involved in that deal should be getting fired immediately.

I can't even pin that one on Erik either as apparently he wasn't the main person behind that deal despite not being against it either.

How on earth do these people make it to the PL and to Manchester United? He was behind Weghorst in the Dutch setup for a reason. He isn't good enough.

comment by Keiran Keane (U1734)
posted 9 minutes ago

Bruno actually has the highest expected assists to assists in the league, he is just let down by Garnacho or Antony not picking out the striker, or the striker missing the chance.

Palmer's well publicised assist to an assist for Jackson's goal vs Newcastle that won goal of the month actually only had an xAA of 0.31 but the pace and vision of Neto and finishing meant that they scored it lol.

If we had better wingers and better finishers then our xAA stat would be much closer to our actual assist to assist stats lol

It was the same in November 2014 when Depay had the poorest assist to xA stat which cost Rooney the best xAA stats of a single match against Southampton lol I don't know why we have always just had wingers with poor xA conversions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No-one can really answer this until Amorim arrives, see which players he can improve, whether that be in the main squad or up and coming young players, and then take it from there.

The left defensive side is obvious, more due to reliability than anything else.

I hope he can really develop Garnacho, Amad and Hojlund, get Zirkzee and Rashy going, get Bruno his mojo back,. improve Mainoo etc etc

No doubt there will be players who we think, wow, he's going to get rid of him, and others who aren't showing much at the moment but become a revelation under Amorim.

I'm not convinced that our squad is as bad as is being made out - I want to see what the right coach can get out of these players and then we make the necessary additions. But we have never had the right coach in to be able to do that

Bring back Sancho for Amorim to work his magic

comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 42 seconds ago
We need a miracle.

I think we've appointed a very capable manager but he's not got the tools required to meet the fans expectations. That bald fraud has left him a truly pathetic squad so he's going to have to be the next Jürgen Klopp to get us back where we need to be basically.

How on earth do we get rid of the deadwood in order to free up squad places and funds? Nobody will buy those expensive mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Im sure the new manager MUST have raised this issue with the club in their discussions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure they did and they will have sold him club and the project.

Reality kicks in quick though..... nobody is buying Casemiro, Mount, Antony this summer. And nobody will buy Bruno and Rashford due to their wages either.

We can't sell most of these players as the only teams that can afford their wages don't want them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Well as I said, they must have spoken about this and he still took the job. I mean hes not stupd is he? That says to me that hes either happy with them in the squad and he thinks he can get a tune out of them within his system... or Jim has promised to move on players he doesnt want to work with no matter what the financial hit will be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's hope so mate.

I don't doubt Amorim's abilities and it will be very difficult for him to not get a better tune out of some of these players. So that's a positive.

I genuinely don't think some fans truly appreciate just how many poor players we have though. I don't think Guardiola would be able to work with most of them. He'd have to buy 14/15 new players if he was out coach.

What worries me most is we have people at the club now who believe / believed Joshua Zirkzee was good enough to play for us. That's a truly frightening thought and I'd go as far as to say whoever was involved in that deal should be getting fired immediately.

I can't even pin that one on Erik either as apparently he wasn't the main person behind that deal despite not being against it either.

How on earth do these people make it to the PL and to Manchester United? He was behind Weghorst in the Dutch setup for a reason. He isn't good enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should ship Antony out in January. Whatever you can get for him just take the hit.
Quite possibly the biggest PL flop ever

comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 42 seconds ago
We need a miracle.

I think we've appointed a very capable manager but he's not got the tools required to meet the fans expectations. That bald fraud has left him a truly pathetic squad so he's going to have to be the next Jürgen Klopp to get us back where we need to be basically.

How on earth do we get rid of the deadwood in order to free up squad places and funds? Nobody will buy those expensive mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Im sure the new manager MUST have raised this issue with the club in their discussions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure they did and they will have sold him club and the project.

Reality kicks in quick though..... nobody is buying Casemiro, Mount, Antony this summer. And nobody will buy Bruno and Rashford due to their wages either.

We can't sell most of these players as the only teams that can afford their wages don't want them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Well as I said, they must have spoken about this and he still took the job. I mean hes not stupd is he? That says to me that hes either happy with them in the squad and he thinks he can get a tune out of them within his system... or Jim has promised to move on players he doesnt want to work with no matter what the financial hit will be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's hope so mate.

I don't doubt Amorim's abilities and it will be very difficult for him to not get a better tune out of some of these players. So that's a positive.

I genuinely don't think some fans truly appreciate just how many poor players we have though. I don't think Guardiola would be able to work with most of them. He'd have to buy 14/15 new players if he was out coach.

What worries me most is we have people at the club now who believe / believed Joshua Zirkzee was good enough to play for us. That's a truly frightening thought and I'd go as far as to say whoever was involved in that deal should be getting fired immediately.

I can't even pin that one on Erik either as apparently he wasn't the main person behind that deal despite not being against it either.

How on earth do these people make it to the PL and to Manchester United? He was behind Weghorst in the Dutch setup for a reason. He isn't good enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should ship Antony out in January. Whatever you can get for him just take the hit.
Quite possibly the biggest PL flop ever
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Easier said that done. Nobody will take him unless it's on loan which doesn't massively help us either.

Sell Bruno. Sell Rashford. Sell Shaw. Sell Casemiro. Sell Antony. Sell Mount. That's all we ever hear from our own fans but in reality that's a much much tougher task than people realise mostly down to our ridiculous wage policy.

comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 42 seconds ago
We need a miracle.

I think we've appointed a very capable manager but he's not got the tools required to meet the fans expectations. That bald fraud has left him a truly pathetic squad so he's going to have to be the next Jürgen Klopp to get us back where we need to be basically.

How on earth do we get rid of the deadwood in order to free up squad places and funds? Nobody will buy those expensive mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Im sure the new manager MUST have raised this issue with the club in their discussions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure they did and they will have sold him club and the project.

Reality kicks in quick though..... nobody is buying Casemiro, Mount, Antony this summer. And nobody will buy Bruno and Rashford due to their wages either.

We can't sell most of these players as the only teams that can afford their wages don't want them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Well as I said, they must have spoken about this and he still took the job. I mean hes not stupd is he? That says to me that hes either happy with them in the squad and he thinks he can get a tune out of them within his system... or Jim has promised to move on players he doesnt want to work with no matter what the financial hit will be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's hope so mate.

I don't doubt Amorim's abilities and it will be very difficult for him to not get a better tune out of some of these players. So that's a positive.

I genuinely don't think some fans truly appreciate just how many poor players we have though. I don't think Guardiola would be able to work with most of them. He'd have to buy 14/15 new players if he was out coach.

What worries me most is we have people at the club now who believe / believed Joshua Zirkzee was good enough to play for us. That's a truly frightening thought and I'd go as far as to say whoever was involved in that deal should be getting fired immediately.

I can't even pin that one on Erik either as apparently he wasn't the main person behind that deal despite not being against it either.

How on earth do these people make it to the PL and to Manchester United? He was behind Weghorst in the Dutch setup for a reason. He isn't good enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should ship Antony out in January. Whatever you can get for him just take the hit.
Quite possibly the biggest PL flop ever
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Easier said that done. Nobody will take him unless it's on loan which doesn't massively help us either.

Sell Bruno. Sell Rashford. Sell Shaw. Sell Casemiro. Sell Antony. Sell Mount. That's all we ever hear from our own fans but in reality that's a much much tougher task than people realise mostly down to our ridiculous wage policy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The other thing is we aren't going to sell everyone, well not immediately anyway.

It's unlikely, but Amorim may be able to unlock something in Antony that he's struggled to find so far. I am more hopeful in terms of others players in the squad.

Any time a team gets rid of a manager, one always questions the standard of the players and the manager. But ultimately, the buck stops with the manager to get the best out of these players. As bad as we have been, we have managed 2 cups, a 3rd placed and 8th placed finish in the past 2 seasons.

My own thinking is that we have individuals who were capable of playing well, but had a manager who couldn't get that out of them on a regular basis. People talk about the attitude of the players etc, but ultimately all players need to be coached well, and ETH simply wasn't doing that.

Our squad isn't title winning material, but it is more than good enough to challenge for top 4.

Do we have a decent squad of players who can play better, or a poor squad of players who occasionally play well. Overall, I like to think the former, and hopefully Amorim will show that.

You see I don't think it is. It's better than 13th place without a doubt but I think there are 5/6 teams now who have more than we do.

We've been so badly run for so long that eventually this was going to happen. Erik needed to get 60-70% of his transfers right because what he inherited wasn't great to start with. What's happened is now he's repeated the same mistakes of the past and made matters worse.

I don't envy Amorim one bit. He's a superb coach but he's got an absolute shambles of a club to drag up out of the gutter quite frankly which isn't fair on him.

comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 5 minutes ago
You see I don't think it is. It's better than 13th place without a doubt but I think there are 5/6 teams now who have more than we do.

We've been so badly run for so long that eventually this was going to happen. Erik needed to get 60-70% of his transfers right because what he inherited wasn't great to start with. What's happened is now he's repeated the same mistakes of the past and made matters worse.

I don't envy Amorim one bit. He's a superb coach but he's got an absolute shambles of a club to drag up out of the gutter quite frankly which isn't fair on him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

I'm a bit more optimistic - a lot will depend on how the younger players will turn out, but we have never had a coach who has really made a significant impact and difference to the performance levels of the players - that's what I think Amorim is capable of doing, so if nothing else, we will have a better gauge of how good or bad this squad is.

I think it's a great challenge for Amorim and that's part of the appeal for him and any manager - to try and make the club great again.

As fans we have had a lot of down moments for a number of years, so it's difficult to try and be positive, but Amorim will come in with fresh eyes and hopefully relish the challenge

We need two attacking players of genuine repute who can offer more than the kids (Amad, Rasmus, Garnacho) can right now and take the place of the more senior attackers who just look spent (Rashford, Mount probably due to injury, Antony etc).

Then we clearly need a LB/LWB, a CM and another CB.

All of those are positions we'd benefit from improving irrespective of the incoming manager but probably take greater priority given Amorim's preferred formation.

The main work needed is confidence and clear instruction. There are players that I currently don't think are UTD quality, but will be interesting to see if they can progress under Ruben.

I have been in Portugal this week and chatted to a lot of my friends there about Bruno and they are all very positive about his abilities, even the Benfica/Porto fans. Sounds like he is an arm around the shoulder type, with clear plans and progressive thinking... Fingers crossed.

Ruben, not Bruno*

It's laughable that anyone thinks we're going to be shipping out all these players next summer, who are either crap, or on huge wages, or both!

Look at Martial, look at Lindelof, look at Van Der beek, McTominay, Sancho ffs! Go back all the way you want - Bailly, Jones, Rojo, Sanchez, Fellaini. These players are happy to do sit and earn $$ and no club wants them or can afford their wages.

And loans are no good. You have to free up wages to even think about bringing in new players. And no club is going to pay full wages for the players being named.

And all of that without even mentioning PFR constraints.

It's just not how it works. There'll be not mass exodus next summer. And we won't be rebuilding with 4 or 5 signings either. Certainly not after the summer purchases we've just had.

We'll be lucky to bring in a couple of players but otherwise we have to accept this is the squad and count on Amorim to get them playing.

And what's weird is that we would even consider getting rid of so many players before Amorim's even had a chance to work with them.

I await the meltdown on here when Amorim starts Antony on a regular basis because he works hard and listens to instruction.

Rw, cf, rwb, lwb, cm, dm, 2 cbs.