comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 13 minutes ago
comment by Dan Arsenal (U21084)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
The OTT response to any dropped points on here is just bonkers.
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How is it bonkers for a fanbase to expect a level of consistency? Your performances are so flaky and this suggests your Manager doesn't know what he is doing tactically. You've excellent players by the way so should be taking advantage of the dodgy results of late of the other big teams (bar Liverpool)
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You were demanding Arteta out 50 games into Arsenal's reign and beyond...about 70 games after you ended 8th!

We can demand consistency but if it was as easily done as said then football would not be the mystery it is. It is the hardest thing to achieve, whatever level you are at. Arsenal managed it this season, last 6 LDLDWWNope!!

If the same old issues persist late into the season, if this costs us in cups and the league then we can agree that it's failing.

For context, Spurs just drew with Fulham after a midweek game and in Arsenal context we were missing the equivalent of Raya, Saliba, Gabriel, Havertz, Jesus, Partey, Nwaneri, Sterling.

I would be interested to see how Arsenal coped with that lot out.
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I think they would have probably won as they'd still have enough quality. Even if they had only drawn like we did, I imagine they'd have outplayed Fulham overall and the result just didn't go for them. Unlike ourselves who were outplayed by Fulham and were helped at the end by a red card.

I'm just not getting the amount of positivity for this result. It was another winnable game that we dropped points in and looked poor, following on from a great result (discounting of course the other winnable game in Europa against Roma in which we dropped points and looked poor).

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 8 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by BelfastSpur (U15068)
posted 9 hours, 7 minutes ago
Spurs have the second youngest average squad age in the PL, coupled with the 6th lowest % of minutes afforded to academy players. That tells you quite a lot. But the main thing it points to is that players we have signed - there has been many - haven’t been bought for the here and now.
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Current firstteam:

Vicario
Van de Ven
Solanke
Johnson
Maddison

all bought for Ange and the first XI at about £210m

back up to first XI:

Dragusin, Werner, Odobert at about £50m

Kids, to play some part now but bigger future:

Gary (18), Bergvall (18), Veliz (19), Phillips (18) Vuskovic (16) at about £70m

So roughly first team spend 65%, first team squad 15%, future 20%

I just have a real problem when people say stuff to support their narrative and it just aint true.
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You’re missing my point entirely.

I am not saying we aren’t signing players for the first team. I am saying the players bought aren’t for us to compete for titles or trophies in the here and now. Rather we are building a team capable of competing tomorrow. Other than Solanke or Maddison now of the players you listed have reached anywhere near the ceiling of their potential yet

comment by BelfastSpur (U15068)
posted 16 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 8 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by BelfastSpur (U15068)
posted 9 hours, 7 minutes ago
Spurs have the second youngest average squad age in the PL, coupled with the 6th lowest % of minutes afforded to academy players. That tells you quite a lot. But the main thing it points to is that players we have signed - there has been many - haven’t been bought for the here and now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Current firstteam:

Vicario
Van de Ven
Solanke
Johnson
Maddison

all bought for Ange and the first XI at about £210m

back up to first XI:

Dragusin, Werner, Odobert at about £50m

Kids, to play some part now but bigger future:

Gary (18), Bergvall (18), Veliz (19), Phillips (18) Vuskovic (16) at about £70m

So roughly first team spend 65%, first team squad 15%, future 20%

I just have a real problem when people say stuff to support their narrative and it just aint true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re missing my point entirely.

I am not saying we aren’t signing players for the first team. I am saying the players bought aren’t for us to compete for titles or trophies in the here and now. Rather we are building a team capable of competing tomorrow. Other than Solanke or Maddison now of the players you listed have reached anywhere near the ceiling of their potential yet
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Im hardly missing the point...

"But the main thing it points to is that players we have signed - there has been many - haven’t been bought for the here and now."

This was your point and it is explicit that we have bought players who are not improving the first team, but are planning for the future.

I have shown 80% of our sizable spending is on the first team squad.

First team ready players are by their very nature more expensive, so we cannot just go out and buy a first team in a window or 2. We have also had to fill gaps in the squad, so we have a loan in Werner, a cheap kid in Bergvall and an expensive kid in Gray and a mid range kid in Odobert. They can contribute and fill the gaps now and become mainstays in time

If you are making the case that we should not have bought them and instead spent the £70m on someone like Eze, then thats fine but that leaves gaps all over the squad, less depth and no succession planning. We're then looking to fill those gaps with more loans, or cheap oldies, or even cheaper kids. That's n ot how you build and develop a squad.

Are you another one saying this squad has no potential to win anything this season?

I would agree it lacks the depth to challenge for a title right now (that takes more time from a rebuild) but the cups? we're in with a decent shout in all of them. We just knocked Man City out of the EFL, so its hard to argue we cannot beat anyone on our day, so long as we able to put a strong line-up out.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 11 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by BelfastSpur (U15068)
posted 16 hours, 28 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 8 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by BelfastSpur (U15068)
posted 9 hours, 7 minutes ago
Spurs have the second youngest average squad age in the PL, coupled with the 6th lowest % of minutes afforded to academy players. That tells you quite a lot. But the main thing it points to is that players we have signed - there has been many - haven’t been bought for the here and now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Current firstteam:

Vicario
Van de Ven
Solanke
Johnson
Maddison

all bought for Ange and the first XI at about £210m

back up to first XI:

Dragusin, Werner, Odobert at about £50m

Kids, to play some part now but bigger future:

Gary (18), Bergvall (18), Veliz (19), Phillips (18) Vuskovic (16) at about £70m

So roughly first team spend 65%, first team squad 15%, future 20%

I just have a real problem when people say stuff to support their narrative and it just aint true.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re missing my point entirely.

I am not saying we aren’t signing players for the first team. I am saying the players bought aren’t for us to compete for titles or trophies in the here and now. Rather we are building a team capable of competing tomorrow. Other than Solanke or Maddison now of the players you listed have reached anywhere near the ceiling of their potential yet
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Im hardly missing the point...

"But the main thing it points to is that players we have signed - there has been many - haven’t been bought for the here and now."

This was your point and it is explicit that we have bought players who are not improving the first team, but are planning for the future.

I have shown 80% of our sizable spending is on the first team squad.

First team ready players are by their very nature more expensive, so we cannot just go out and buy a first team in a window or 2. We have also had to fill gaps in the squad, so we have a loan in Werner, a cheap kid in Bergvall and an expensive kid in Gray and a mid range kid in Odobert. They can contribute and fill the gaps now and become mainstays in time

If you are making the case that we should not have bought them and instead spent the £70m on someone like Eze, then thats fine but that leaves gaps all over the squad, less depth and no succession planning. We're then looking to fill those gaps with more loans, or cheap oldies, or even cheaper kids. That's n ot how you build and develop a squad.

Are you another one saying this squad has no potential to win anything this season?

I would agree it lacks the depth to challenge for a title right now (that takes more time from a rebuild) but the cups? we're in with a decent shout in all of them. We just knocked Man City out of the EFL, so its hard to argue we cannot beat anyone on our day, so long as we able to put a strong line-up out.
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I didn’t state the players we have signed haven’t in many respects improved the first team. But a strategic decision was made to sign players 21-25 in the main. If instead we had signed different players in some instances that were more experienced and in the 25-29 bracket we could arguably be currently further ahead under Ange.

But I get it that is more the approach we tried under Jose and Conte and it didn’t come to fruition.

The jest of my initial comment was really to reiterate to some fans that are disillusioned that a complete rebuild was always on the cards. And given the type of club we are - with the chairman we have - we weren’t going to go out and spend 40-50m on every position for ready made players. Which you have pretty much alluded to in your last comment.

Like I said we have the second youngest average starting age within the PL. The majority of the players we have signed are mainly only starting to show their qualities at this level and whilst the ceiling is high, patience is needed.

I think a lot of what you’re saying applies to the sentiment of my initial comment. When I stated they haven’t been bought ‘for the here and now’. I meant to make us successful in the here and now. Not that they wouldn’t feature in the here and now.

I guess I am just fed up with the constant undermining of the manager expecting the impossible over and over again. When the fact is how we invest and operate is usually where we finish most seasons. And rather in terms of wages we continually punch above our weight.

On the cups we certainly can win one of them. Cups are won on merit but usually with a good dollop of luck. Something that we are rarely afforded. But luck generally comes easier when everyone associated with a club gets behind it.

For clarity I believe Ange deserves the rest of this season and next. If by next season we haven’t progressed then rightly more people can call for change again.