posted 1 day, 7 hours ago
Since October 28th 2023 we have lost more Premier league games than we've won.
This isn't just injuries (which will always happen with Ange's methods). This is now 14 months of poor results with little signs of things improving.
posted 1 day, 7 hours ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 39 minutes ago
I mean I lost faith in Ange back during the Coventry game. We won't win anything with him, and I'd prefer to see him replaced sooner rather than later if we can identify the right person.
But - some of the overreactions are ridiculous. We lost by three goals to the best team in the country, with a whole bunch of important players missing for us. This game isn't the one to spit dummies out over.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
how come as early on as the Coventry game?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me personally, I thought that game highlighted all his shortcomings. We were lucky to scrape through that one, and we've had some decent results since, but I just don't see anything which makes me believe we'll win anything with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fair enough
posted 1 day, 7 hours ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think in reality it's somewhere in the middle. It's not quite as disastrous in terms of injuries as some are claiming, but I think it's worse than you're making out.
Romero and VDV are categorically our first choice centre backs.
Dragusin is third choice, Davies 4th choice, and maybe Gray is 5th choice at best. So we're playing with our 3rd and 5th choice CB's.
Forster is a distant second choice keeper. I agree he's done ok overall, but he's nowhere near Vicario's level.
Udogie is our first choice LB. I agree Spence has been great and so it doesn't really feel like a drop off in that area. But it also means Porro is being run into the ground because his backup options (Spence and Gray) are being used elsewhere.
Bentancur would absolutely be playing an important role in midfield.
Richy if ever fit would play a part, giving another attacking option and the option to rest Solanke, Son etc.
Same applies for Odobert and arguably Moore.
We're very stretched, and it's badly affecting us. But Ange could and should be being smarter based on what we have available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I did say I thought the injuries were partly contributing. I just feel it's very easy to play that card when things go wrong when it should be acknowledged that Ange probably isn't making matters any easier.
I'm not even trying to have a go at the players just trying to show how it isn't all about these injury problems and how despite the situation we should still be expecting better than we have got.
posted 1 day, 7 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think in reality it's somewhere in the middle. It's not quite as disastrous in terms of injuries as some are claiming, but I think it's worse than you're making out.
Romero and VDV are categorically our first choice centre backs.
Dragusin is third choice, Davies 4th choice, and maybe Gray is 5th choice at best. So we're playing with our 3rd and 5th choice CB's.
Forster is a distant second choice keeper. I agree he's done ok overall, but he's nowhere near Vicario's level.
Udogie is our first choice LB. I agree Spence has been great and so it doesn't really feel like a drop off in that area. But it also means Porro is being run into the ground because his backup options (Spence and Gray) are being used elsewhere.
Bentancur would absolutely be playing an important role in midfield.
Richy if ever fit would play a part, giving another attacking option and the option to rest Solanke, Son etc.
Same applies for Odobert and arguably Moore.
We're very stretched, and it's badly affecting us. But Ange could and should be being smarter based on what we have available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I did say I thought the injuries were partly contributing. I just feel it's very easy to play that card when things go wrong when it should be acknowledged that Ange probably isn't making matters any easier.
I'm not even trying to have a go at the players just trying to show how it isn't all about these injury problems and how despite the situation we should still be expecting better than we have got.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I do agree in general. The injuries are a massive problem, but even without the injuries I think we'd still be losing some of these games based on Ange's tactics.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
I haven't been on here for ages and truthfully i havent missed much as its the same depressing people with no life (Sizzle) spouting shizzle, repeating the same headlines as the newspapers, like it makes them feel relevant or something.
Sandy - as much as its difficult to watch at times I agree that we have to trust the process and give Ange more time. The issue at Spurs is not something that can be fixed overnight or in 18 months. The issue goes deep to board level and to change the ethos of the club with take time. We've been below par as a club for many years, way before Ange so to expect it to change in a year or 2 is not realistic.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No team has also not scored as many as Spurs did against Liverpool yesterday. But I guess that doesn`t suit the agenda.
Yes the defence has had problems even at full strength. especially with set pieces. But in general it looked reasonably comfortable against most teams. Surely better to have the best team on the pitch. They will win a lot more than they lose. Most of this seasons defeats have come since the injuries started to pile up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We scored our second and third when we were 5-1 down and Liverpool had already won ffs. That's what happens when teams are already way out in front, they take things easier.
Where does the idea that we'll win more than we lose come from, given our record? Aren't there as many losses as wins if you take out the first 10 new manager bounce games? It's crap form dating back to last season. The same form that is worse than what we went through under Poch towards the end who you were desperate for Levy to sack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The team never gave up, and it doesn't matter when Spurs scored. They still scored three goals against the best team in the league, with half the team missing.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
Really hope we buck the trend and keep Ange.
There are some moments of our play where I just think we are building something special.
Lets see and judge when Ange gets the squad in he wants, if it then doesn't work out than fair enough.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No team has also not scored as many as Spurs did against Liverpool yesterday. But I guess that doesn`t suit the agenda.
Yes the defence has had problems even at full strength. especially with set pieces. But in general it looked reasonably comfortable against most teams. Surely better to have the best team on the pitch. They will win a lot more than they lose. Most of this seasons defeats have come since the injuries started to pile up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We scored our second and third when we were 5-1 down and Liverpool had already won ffs. That's what happens when teams are already way out in front, they take things easier.
Where does the idea that we'll win more than we lose come from, given our record? Aren't there as many losses as wins if you take out the first 10 new manager bounce games? It's crap form dating back to last season. The same form that is worse than what we went through under Poch towards the end who you were desperate for Levy to sack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Take out the first 10 games. Why not just take out the last 10 games. Spurs still win more than they lose. Even since those first 10 games Ange has for the best part of 12 months now had an injury ravaged squad to select from.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 9 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nottm Forest are currently in the top four. But they are a countrymile off being as good as Liverpool, even though they won at Anfield. I expect Spurs to get at least a draw, and maybe even a win. Wolves after that are Spurs bogey team, so anything could happen in that match. Also typically Wolves have finally hit a bit of form just in time for the Spurs match.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What will you say if they lose to Forest then seeing as you think we'll draw or win? Going to bring out the injury excuse again?
We'll revisit this after the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The injuries are not an excuse. They are a fact. If you have a fully fit squad to select from then it makes a massive difference. Surely I don't need to tell you that Even a village idiot would know that.
If even Billy Nicholson had to play months with Brown, Mackay, Norman, Blanchflower, Jonres and White all missing at the same time for a few months, they wouldn't have won the Double.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Men with Ven (U7905)
posted 34 minutes ago
Since October 28th 2023 we have lost more Premier league games than we've won.
This isn't just injuries (which will always happen with Ange's methods). This is now 14 months of poor results with little signs of things improving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's because Ange has had mass injuries for most of that time. When has he ever had a fully fit squad for say two to three months at a time? He hasn't.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think in reality it's somewhere in the middle. It's not quite as disastrous in terms of injuries as some are claiming, but I think it's worse than you're making out.
Romero and VDV are categorically our first choice centre backs.
Dragusin is third choice, Davies 4th choice, and maybe Gray is 5th choice at best. So we're playing with our 3rd and 5th choice CB's.
Forster is a distant second choice keeper. I agree he's done ok overall, but he's nowhere near Vicario's level.
Udogie is our first choice LB. I agree Spence has been great and so it doesn't really feel like a drop off in that area. But it also means Porro is being run into the ground because his backup options (Spence and Gray) are being used elsewhere.
Bentancur would absolutely be playing an important role in midfield.
Richy if ever fit would play a part, giving another attacking option and the option to rest Solanke, Son etc.
Same applies for Odobert and arguably Moore.
We're very stretched, and it's badly affecting us. But Ange could and should be being smarter based on what we have available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I did say I thought the injuries were partly contributing. I just feel it's very easy to play that card when things go wrong when it should be acknowledged that Ange probably isn't making matters any easier.
I'm not even trying to have a go at the players just trying to show how it isn't all about these injury problems and how despite the situation we should still be expecting better than we have got.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So winning 5-0 away to Southampton, who then got a draw at Fulham with 10 men. Then a few days later getting to a semi final is not good enough?
It will be ups and downs. The whole of the Prem is inconsistent, other than Liverpool. Chelsea and Arsenal just drew with Everton, a team Spurs smashed 4-0.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by burghandy (U10383)
posted 10 minutes ago
Really hope we buck the trend and keep Ange.
There are some moments of our play where I just think we are building something special.
Lets see and judge when Ange gets the squad in he wants, if it then doesn't work out than fair enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, even yesterday, I thought Spurs going forward were decent.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
Southampton give liverpool a better game than we did, but we batter southampton and liverpool batter us
thats just how football works, it isnt logical
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by burghandy (U10383)
posted 10 minutes ago
Really hope we buck the trend and keep Ange.
There are some moments of our play where I just think we are building something special.
Lets see and judge when Ange gets the squad in he wants, if it then doesn't work out than fair enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, even yesterday, I thought Spurs going forward were decent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
also the players are obviously still playing for him and on board with the philosophy
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
i know liverpool could take the foot off the gas yesterday but we could have also given up
theres no way being more defensive guarantees us being more solid either
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
that all being said if we dont have a significant January i do think Ange will be in trouble and there isnt much point persisting if we are going to carry on being sub par in transfer windows
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 24 seconds ago
i know liverpool could take the foot off the gas yesterday but we could have also given up
theres no way being more defensive guarantees us being more solid either
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This^
When is the last time we had a team at Spurs that could sit back defend and be solid? It's fantasy land stuff. We have never had the players for that and we don't now.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 24 seconds ago
i know liverpool could take the foot off the gas yesterday but we could have also given up
theres no way being more defensive guarantees us being more solid either
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This^
When is the last time we had a team at Spurs that could sit back defend and be solid? It's fantasy land stuff. We have never had the players for that and we don't now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Errr
I would definitely say Poch team with Alderweireld and Vertonghen was a "solid" defence!
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
Hi Sandy,
We haven't always seen eye to eye, but I couldn't agree with you more, the support here is pathetic. If it was down to them we would change managers every 18 months.
The level of debate has gone down so much over the last few years I rarely look on here any more. Fortunately the fans inside the ground can see what Ange is doing. If you want balanced nuanced chat about spurs head over to r/coys on Reddit. Ali Gold's Youtube channel is also worth a look.
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
comment by Hezzman (U21558)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 24 seconds ago
i know liverpool could take the foot off the gas yesterday but we could have also given up
theres no way being more defensive guarantees us being more solid either
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This^
When is the last time we had a team at Spurs that could sit back defend and be solid? It's fantasy land stuff. We have never had the players for that and we don't now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Errr
I would definitely say Poch team with Alderweireld and Vertonghen was a "solid" defence!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair he had a very settled back four and goalie. I don't remember to much disruption or injury at the back, during that era.
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
Remember this Conte banger https://youtu.be/4XGT4YJdfiA?si=tvK-xWt4oSzDvikD
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
comment by EastUpper (U11623)
posted 40 seconds ago
Hi Sandy,
We haven't always seen eye to eye, but I couldn't agree with you more, the support here is pathetic. If it was down to them we would change managers every 18 months.
The level of debate has gone down so much over the last few years I rarely look on here any more. Fortunately the fans inside the ground can see what Ange is doing. If you want balanced nuanced chat about spurs head over to r/coys on Reddit. Ali Gold's Youtube channel is also worth a look.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks mate.
I try to be reasonably balanced with my views. And there was a time when I thought Ange may not work. But he has absolutely grown on me. And would be ridiculous to sack him, given all the problems he has to contend with.
Needs a minimum of three seasons with this mainly young squad. Only then can he be properly judged.
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
The reality is it will get worse should we lose against Forrest. Especially if it’s a gutless performance too.
The problem Ange has is what he believes in is not working for him consistently for the first time in his career and the spotlight is on him too. Yes you have to take the injuries into consideration too but we were defensively shocking when we are full strength too but yeah having them all back will help for sure.I do wonder is it a case of him being stubborn and sticking to his way or he really doesn’t have any other, skill, know how at all to help him in this situation.
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
There were some positives tbf, Gray looks promising, Spence and you kept going, Kulus in the form of his life hes been so consistent for yas. Doms finding the net not too. You keep playing no matter what too and are a big threat.
Udogie rb spence lb gray and vdv cb could strengthen you going forward. Could be your best defensive back 4?
posted 1 day, 4 hours ago
Neville made a good point though, no team can press full 90 u have to choose when and some of the pressing was pointless and left your defence with no choice but to come out and be exposed time and time again cause Son went on a weird useless press.
Sign in if you want to comment
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Page 2 of 3
posted 1 day, 7 hours ago
Since October 28th 2023 we have lost more Premier league games than we've won.
This isn't just injuries (which will always happen with Ange's methods). This is now 14 months of poor results with little signs of things improving.
posted 1 day, 7 hours ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 39 minutes ago
I mean I lost faith in Ange back during the Coventry game. We won't win anything with him, and I'd prefer to see him replaced sooner rather than later if we can identify the right person.
But - some of the overreactions are ridiculous. We lost by three goals to the best team in the country, with a whole bunch of important players missing for us. This game isn't the one to spit dummies out over.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
how come as early on as the Coventry game?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me personally, I thought that game highlighted all his shortcomings. We were lucky to scrape through that one, and we've had some decent results since, but I just don't see anything which makes me believe we'll win anything with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fair enough
posted 1 day, 7 hours ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think in reality it's somewhere in the middle. It's not quite as disastrous in terms of injuries as some are claiming, but I think it's worse than you're making out.
Romero and VDV are categorically our first choice centre backs.
Dragusin is third choice, Davies 4th choice, and maybe Gray is 5th choice at best. So we're playing with our 3rd and 5th choice CB's.
Forster is a distant second choice keeper. I agree he's done ok overall, but he's nowhere near Vicario's level.
Udogie is our first choice LB. I agree Spence has been great and so it doesn't really feel like a drop off in that area. But it also means Porro is being run into the ground because his backup options (Spence and Gray) are being used elsewhere.
Bentancur would absolutely be playing an important role in midfield.
Richy if ever fit would play a part, giving another attacking option and the option to rest Solanke, Son etc.
Same applies for Odobert and arguably Moore.
We're very stretched, and it's badly affecting us. But Ange could and should be being smarter based on what we have available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I did say I thought the injuries were partly contributing. I just feel it's very easy to play that card when things go wrong when it should be acknowledged that Ange probably isn't making matters any easier.
I'm not even trying to have a go at the players just trying to show how it isn't all about these injury problems and how despite the situation we should still be expecting better than we have got.
posted 1 day, 7 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think in reality it's somewhere in the middle. It's not quite as disastrous in terms of injuries as some are claiming, but I think it's worse than you're making out.
Romero and VDV are categorically our first choice centre backs.
Dragusin is third choice, Davies 4th choice, and maybe Gray is 5th choice at best. So we're playing with our 3rd and 5th choice CB's.
Forster is a distant second choice keeper. I agree he's done ok overall, but he's nowhere near Vicario's level.
Udogie is our first choice LB. I agree Spence has been great and so it doesn't really feel like a drop off in that area. But it also means Porro is being run into the ground because his backup options (Spence and Gray) are being used elsewhere.
Bentancur would absolutely be playing an important role in midfield.
Richy if ever fit would play a part, giving another attacking option and the option to rest Solanke, Son etc.
Same applies for Odobert and arguably Moore.
We're very stretched, and it's badly affecting us. But Ange could and should be being smarter based on what we have available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I did say I thought the injuries were partly contributing. I just feel it's very easy to play that card when things go wrong when it should be acknowledged that Ange probably isn't making matters any easier.
I'm not even trying to have a go at the players just trying to show how it isn't all about these injury problems and how despite the situation we should still be expecting better than we have got.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I do agree in general. The injuries are a massive problem, but even without the injuries I think we'd still be losing some of these games based on Ange's tactics.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
I haven't been on here for ages and truthfully i havent missed much as its the same depressing people with no life (Sizzle) spouting shizzle, repeating the same headlines as the newspapers, like it makes them feel relevant or something.
Sandy - as much as its difficult to watch at times I agree that we have to trust the process and give Ange more time. The issue at Spurs is not something that can be fixed overnight or in 18 months. The issue goes deep to board level and to change the ethos of the club with take time. We've been below par as a club for many years, way before Ange so to expect it to change in a year or 2 is not realistic.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 29 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No team has also not scored as many as Spurs did against Liverpool yesterday. But I guess that doesn`t suit the agenda.
Yes the defence has had problems even at full strength. especially with set pieces. But in general it looked reasonably comfortable against most teams. Surely better to have the best team on the pitch. They will win a lot more than they lose. Most of this seasons defeats have come since the injuries started to pile up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We scored our second and third when we were 5-1 down and Liverpool had already won ffs. That's what happens when teams are already way out in front, they take things easier.
Where does the idea that we'll win more than we lose come from, given our record? Aren't there as many losses as wins if you take out the first 10 new manager bounce games? It's crap form dating back to last season. The same form that is worse than what we went through under Poch towards the end who you were desperate for Levy to sack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The team never gave up, and it doesn't matter when Spurs scored. They still scored three goals against the best team in the league, with half the team missing.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
Really hope we buck the trend and keep Ange.
There are some moments of our play where I just think we are building something special.
Lets see and judge when Ange gets the squad in he wants, if it then doesn't work out than fair enough.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No team has also not scored as many as Spurs did against Liverpool yesterday. But I guess that doesn`t suit the agenda.
Yes the defence has had problems even at full strength. especially with set pieces. But in general it looked reasonably comfortable against most teams. Surely better to have the best team on the pitch. They will win a lot more than they lose. Most of this seasons defeats have come since the injuries started to pile up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We scored our second and third when we were 5-1 down and Liverpool had already won ffs. That's what happens when teams are already way out in front, they take things easier.
Where does the idea that we'll win more than we lose come from, given our record? Aren't there as many losses as wins if you take out the first 10 new manager bounce games? It's crap form dating back to last season. The same form that is worse than what we went through under Poch towards the end who you were desperate for Levy to sack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Take out the first 10 games. Why not just take out the last 10 games. Spurs still win more than they lose. Even since those first 10 games Ange has for the best part of 12 months now had an injury ravaged squad to select from.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 9 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nottm Forest are currently in the top four. But they are a countrymile off being as good as Liverpool, even though they won at Anfield. I expect Spurs to get at least a draw, and maybe even a win. Wolves after that are Spurs bogey team, so anything could happen in that match. Also typically Wolves have finally hit a bit of form just in time for the Spurs match.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What will you say if they lose to Forest then seeing as you think we'll draw or win? Going to bring out the injury excuse again?
We'll revisit this after the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The injuries are not an excuse. They are a fact. If you have a fully fit squad to select from then it makes a massive difference. Surely I don't need to tell you that Even a village idiot would know that.
If even Billy Nicholson had to play months with Brown, Mackay, Norman, Blanchflower, Jonres and White all missing at the same time for a few months, they wouldn't have won the Double.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Men with Ven (U7905)
posted 34 minutes ago
Since October 28th 2023 we have lost more Premier league games than we've won.
This isn't just injuries (which will always happen with Ange's methods). This is now 14 months of poor results with little signs of things improving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's because Ange has had mass injuries for most of that time. When has he ever had a fully fit squad for say two to three months at a time? He hasn't.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
It's not just about yesterday's result in isolation, it's the accumulation of form. It's another loss to make it 8 now this season. Not as if Liverpool beat every team they face either. They had 2 draws before us and no team has conceded as many to them as we did. Plus being at home you might expect for more.
As for the injuries, yes it might be partly responsible but let's add a little more context.
Udogie has been criticised for not being defensively good enough and Spence has come in and done well, if not been an improvement, so you can almost dismiss that.
Romero is another one who has been criticised heavily, including by you Sandy. Now you want to use him as a player that we're really missing? Hmmm.
Davies has now gone from being a fringe player we should have got rid of a while back to being another whose service is invaluable in the face of unavailability.
Forster apart from the 2 bad mistakes against United, hasn't really done much wrong. Dragusin and Gray we paid a lot of money for so if the idea is that we're rubbish when these guys have to step in, it doesn't say a lot about the decision to sign them and Ange agreeing to it.
Of course we all should know by now that when we've had our first players fit or when we haven't, the defence has been shaky for a long time and we always give up way too many chances.
I suppose given the injured players and the team we face next being a top 4 team, we should all accept it's going to be another loss, right and not complain about it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think in reality it's somewhere in the middle. It's not quite as disastrous in terms of injuries as some are claiming, but I think it's worse than you're making out.
Romero and VDV are categorically our first choice centre backs.
Dragusin is third choice, Davies 4th choice, and maybe Gray is 5th choice at best. So we're playing with our 3rd and 5th choice CB's.
Forster is a distant second choice keeper. I agree he's done ok overall, but he's nowhere near Vicario's level.
Udogie is our first choice LB. I agree Spence has been great and so it doesn't really feel like a drop off in that area. But it also means Porro is being run into the ground because his backup options (Spence and Gray) are being used elsewhere.
Bentancur would absolutely be playing an important role in midfield.
Richy if ever fit would play a part, giving another attacking option and the option to rest Solanke, Son etc.
Same applies for Odobert and arguably Moore.
We're very stretched, and it's badly affecting us. But Ange could and should be being smarter based on what we have available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I did say I thought the injuries were partly contributing. I just feel it's very easy to play that card when things go wrong when it should be acknowledged that Ange probably isn't making matters any easier.
I'm not even trying to have a go at the players just trying to show how it isn't all about these injury problems and how despite the situation we should still be expecting better than we have got.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So winning 5-0 away to Southampton, who then got a draw at Fulham with 10 men. Then a few days later getting to a semi final is not good enough?
It will be ups and downs. The whole of the Prem is inconsistent, other than Liverpool. Chelsea and Arsenal just drew with Everton, a team Spurs smashed 4-0.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by burghandy (U10383)
posted 10 minutes ago
Really hope we buck the trend and keep Ange.
There are some moments of our play where I just think we are building something special.
Lets see and judge when Ange gets the squad in he wants, if it then doesn't work out than fair enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, even yesterday, I thought Spurs going forward were decent.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
Southampton give liverpool a better game than we did, but we batter southampton and liverpool batter us
thats just how football works, it isnt logical
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by burghandy (U10383)
posted 10 minutes ago
Really hope we buck the trend and keep Ange.
There are some moments of our play where I just think we are building something special.
Lets see and judge when Ange gets the squad in he wants, if it then doesn't work out than fair enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, even yesterday, I thought Spurs going forward were decent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
also the players are obviously still playing for him and on board with the philosophy
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
i know liverpool could take the foot off the gas yesterday but we could have also given up
theres no way being more defensive guarantees us being more solid either
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
that all being said if we dont have a significant January i do think Ange will be in trouble and there isnt much point persisting if we are going to carry on being sub par in transfer windows
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 24 seconds ago
i know liverpool could take the foot off the gas yesterday but we could have also given up
theres no way being more defensive guarantees us being more solid either
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This^
When is the last time we had a team at Spurs that could sit back defend and be solid? It's fantasy land stuff. We have never had the players for that and we don't now.
posted 1 day, 6 hours ago
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 24 seconds ago
i know liverpool could take the foot off the gas yesterday but we could have also given up
theres no way being more defensive guarantees us being more solid either
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This^
When is the last time we had a team at Spurs that could sit back defend and be solid? It's fantasy land stuff. We have never had the players for that and we don't now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Errr
I would definitely say Poch team with Alderweireld and Vertonghen was a "solid" defence!
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
Hi Sandy,
We haven't always seen eye to eye, but I couldn't agree with you more, the support here is pathetic. If it was down to them we would change managers every 18 months.
The level of debate has gone down so much over the last few years I rarely look on here any more. Fortunately the fans inside the ground can see what Ange is doing. If you want balanced nuanced chat about spurs head over to r/coys on Reddit. Ali Gold's Youtube channel is also worth a look.
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
comment by Hezzman (U21558)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Gezza-Spurs (U18952)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 24 seconds ago
i know liverpool could take the foot off the gas yesterday but we could have also given up
theres no way being more defensive guarantees us being more solid either
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This^
When is the last time we had a team at Spurs that could sit back defend and be solid? It's fantasy land stuff. We have never had the players for that and we don't now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Errr
I would definitely say Poch team with Alderweireld and Vertonghen was a "solid" defence!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair he had a very settled back four and goalie. I don't remember to much disruption or injury at the back, during that era.
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
Remember this Conte banger https://youtu.be/4XGT4YJdfiA?si=tvK-xWt4oSzDvikD
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
comment by EastUpper (U11623)
posted 40 seconds ago
Hi Sandy,
We haven't always seen eye to eye, but I couldn't agree with you more, the support here is pathetic. If it was down to them we would change managers every 18 months.
The level of debate has gone down so much over the last few years I rarely look on here any more. Fortunately the fans inside the ground can see what Ange is doing. If you want balanced nuanced chat about spurs head over to r/coys on Reddit. Ali Gold's Youtube channel is also worth a look.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks mate.
I try to be reasonably balanced with my views. And there was a time when I thought Ange may not work. But he has absolutely grown on me. And would be ridiculous to sack him, given all the problems he has to contend with.
Needs a minimum of three seasons with this mainly young squad. Only then can he be properly judged.
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
The reality is it will get worse should we lose against Forrest. Especially if it’s a gutless performance too.
The problem Ange has is what he believes in is not working for him consistently for the first time in his career and the spotlight is on him too. Yes you have to take the injuries into consideration too but we were defensively shocking when we are full strength too but yeah having them all back will help for sure.I do wonder is it a case of him being stubborn and sticking to his way or he really doesn’t have any other, skill, know how at all to help him in this situation.
posted 1 day, 5 hours ago
There were some positives tbf, Gray looks promising, Spence and you kept going, Kulus in the form of his life hes been so consistent for yas. Doms finding the net not too. You keep playing no matter what too and are a big threat.
Udogie rb spence lb gray and vdv cb could strengthen you going forward. Could be your best defensive back 4?
posted 1 day, 4 hours ago
Neville made a good point though, no team can press full 90 u have to choose when and some of the pressing was pointless and left your defence with no choice but to come out and be exposed time and time again cause Son went on a weird useless press.
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