comment by Bobby (U4765)

posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago

ManUtdDaredevil - Probably because there hasn't ever been a successful appeal with an FA independent panel.
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I disagree Bobby. a player was charged and punished for racial abuse and the case was dismissed (his name escapes me now). It can be done, especially if Luis is innocent. Accepting punishment for something you didn't do implies guilt. LFCs lawyer and Suarez also admitted to the charge of using inappropriate language which is an automatic two game ban and it gets doubled for some reason.

Billy, a lot of us felt the ban was harsh and maybe a fine and a suspended ban would have been sufficient but that changed with LFCs approach to this. Luis should have kept his gob quiet when he went to Uruguay as well and he should have kept his story straight because it appeared he told Comoli and Kuyt different things. It won't help your case in court if you keep changing your story and accept witness testimonies without challenge.

The police have also not been involved because Utd (the victims of ridiculous punishment from the FA too) abided by the FAs edict to keep quiet about the issue. Chelsea and QPR are doing the same too.

Luis was tried under the auspices of the FA, just like when players get charged for misconduct or violent conduct on the pitch (which can be classed as assault). The police aren't involved in those as well and I see no reason why they should be involved in this.

7best

I understand that, my point is why just leave this where it is? There is such a furore about this, surely now is the time to take advantage and press home the fight against racism?

A criminal offence has occurred, if the FA and United, and Evra want to see racism dealt with properly then surely they want Suarez to be made an example of and then the message is clear!! By not following this through, they are trivialising racism, is an 8 game ban really a fitting punishment for what may well be a clear case of a racist playing in the PL?

I would want the full weight of the law thrown at Suarez if I believed he was guilty, anything less shows either a willingness to fight racism, especially when they have been given such a golden opportunity to show they wil not tolerate it...or they are unsure if they have any evidence to convict, or even get to court! Hmmmmm

It wasn't appealed because the verdict couldn't be challenged, is that right?

Billy the 8 game ban sends a very clear message that such behaviour is not tolerated, don't you think so?

It's funny, you guys believe Evra when he says he doesn't believe Suarez is a racist but do not believe anything else he's said.

This thing has been done to death and Luis will be back soon and hopefully has learnt that he can insult people on the pitch without referring to the colour of their skin.

It is sad though that Billy can pick so many holes in the report but the lawyers emplyed by LFC can't. What a waste of resources.

daredevil

No reason to be involved?

So you think that a criminal act of racially abusive language should be ignored by the police?

How is this helping to tackle racism? The 2 incidents of alleged racist behaviour at Anfield will be dealt with by the police and the courts...do you think it would be okay if the 2 supposed abusers were just banned from Anfield for 8 games?

The FA and United owe it to Evra and all black players in the league to take this as far as they possibly can. If they are serious then Suarez should be punished as severely as possible, not told he cannot play football for 8 games and then everything is okay!

Maybe one of the United fans on here who are seemingly so passionate about racism in football all of a sudden should report Suarez to the police, surely you, and other united fans want to see Suarez rightfully punished by law for his racist language...go for it, report him. By not doing so, you are basically saying you are happy that a possible racist can escape the law!

daredevil

I am sure the lawyers can see what I see, the problem I imagine is that the FA have a near 100% success rate when charging players, and only 2 appeals (I think) have ever been successful! Also, I guess that Liverpool's fixtures played a part in the decision not to appeal...by not appealing they did not accept guilt, they actually stated that they did not agree with the verdict!

The ban sends a message up to a point, but the case also sends a message that you can abuse and insult another player without punishment, a dangerous precedent!

Also, I don't believe a word Evra says, he was unreliable in the past when giving evidence to an FA panel, once a liar, always a liar is my motto....not really but you get what I mean!

Billy Evra said himself he didn't think Suarez was a racist, he could have made things a bit worse for Suarez by saying nothing or saying that he did think he was racist...

He could have tried to mount some campaign similar to what Liverpool did (though I don't think Fergie would have approved)

He could have made this a lot worse but choose not to, so it is fairly obvious why he didn't then press on for a criminal conviction.

Billy, generally sports bodies dole out punishment as they see fit without involving the police.

To involve the police in this case, the member of the public would need evidence. If no one heard the abuse, the only evidence we have is that of Luis admitting he said the word which is considered hearsay.

Like I said, elbows, kicks and the like are assault on the street but not on a football pitch.



Regarding Evra, your opinions about him are irrelevant and Suarez came across as even more unreliable than Evra. Says it all. A liar by your own admission was deemed more reliable by an independent panel than Luis.

Billy, I know you would like to carry on with this for all eternity but I'm done with this. I'll leave with a final comment;

I would fight tooth and nail to clear my name if I was falsely accused by anyone irrespective of a panels conviction rate. I believe anyone who is innocent would do the same.

7best

Nah, I'm not having that! I do not believe a word Evra says.

This all started when Evra started abusing Suarez in Spanish. Evra then lied about what he was called, he also lied about how many times he was supposedly abused!

This all happened before Suarez even knew that he was being accused of using racially abusive language...everyone had to wait whilst Evra translated Spanish into Italian into English (he even used the French word for negro in his evidence to try and explain his lie) and then decide whether he had been abused 5 or 10 times!

I think when you are faced with this sort of nonsense, it is probably not worth fighting 'tooth and nail'!

I respect you saying that you would fight something if you were innocent, but not everyone would do the same, so your belief is misguided!

An example of this is Fergie...charged by the FA in March '11 for improper conduct. Fergie denied the charge obviously believing he was not guilty of it. Fergie was found guilty, fined £30K and banned for 5 games. According to you, Fergie, who believed he was innocent, would have appealed!

He didn't!

The end!

"Like I said, elbows, kicks and the like are assault on the street but not on a football pitch."

Oh yes they are. The same laws that govern behaviour in the workplace or on the street also cover behaviour on the football field. A few cases have been brought to the police from those who have been 'assaulted' on the field and action taken.

Yet more one sided drivel from billybob, I for one think the whole saga was a farce, but billybob you keep implying that Evra is a liar,do you have 100% proof? there was talk of Suarez changing his story is this ok then or was he telling lies.

What I am talking about is this :

The video footage on Liverpool's website compounds a difficult few months for the club following widespread criticism over how the Suarez case was handled by the club and the arrest of a fan following the FA Cup third-round tie against Oldham Athletic on 6 January.

On that occasion a 20-year-old man from Aintree, Merseyside, was arrested, and then later bailed, on suspicion of a racially aggravated public order offence following alleged racist abuse directed towards Oldham player Tom Adeyemi.

Liverpool issued a statement after the game expressing that they were "deeply sorry" for what happened and they would "continue to take the strongest possible action against unacceptable behaviour during our matches".

The club have reiterated their stance that anyone found guilty of committing an offence will be banned for life.

Its going on and on, and even if you think Suarez was right and that Evra is a lying twot , it doesnt really matter, its not United getting the bad press the longer this drags on, its Liverpool.

and as for the last bit
"The club have reiterated their stance that anyone found guilty of committing an offence will be banned for life."
hmmmmm now that's not quite true is it ?

Billybob


Well done. You got the 500th post!

daredevil

There is evidence though!

The 115 page report is evidence isn't it? Surely that is enough?

And I am not sure that this is actually a footballing matter, i.e. a matter that the FA can deal with without involving the police. I understand why the police don't get involved when it is a tackle or a stamp or an elbow, but all those things are accepted as footballing issues, is racism a footballing issue? Yes it happened on the pitch, but if a player murdered another on the pitch, would the FA deal with that?

If the FA are serious about fighting racism then this case should be referred to the police and a real message sent to future 'probable' racial abusers...would you not agree? I want to see racism kicked out, involving the law would send a real message to everyone, so why not? What is there to lose? Surely if he is guilty then by highlighting this through a trial can only help the fight against racism, surely?



My last post should have been addressed to you too, not 7best!

red666

I think that they both lied and changed their stories. I guess the truth is somewhere in the middle!

And yes I am implying that Evra lied, the reason for that is that he has done it before when giving evidence to an FA hearing! It just makes me suspicious when someone has form....

RED - Evra was shown video footage and at the same time as watching it asked to give his side of the story.

Suarez was not shown any video footage and his side of the story was from his memory alone. So he had a much harder task - when he says he didn't speak to Evra at a certain point (going from memory alone) but Evra said (having given his statement while watching video) that Suarez did speak to him at that point - it's not hard to see that Evra's 'remembrance' of what occurred when, was more accurate than Suarez who was going from memory alone. That's why his side of the story changed.

Can you describe accurately something that happened a month ago? When shown video of that event it will be somewhat different than what you recalled.

I'm currently re-reading the report and some of the things glossed over are quite astonishing!

Siempre

I think when they talk about banning someone for life if found guilty, they mean if actually found guilty with stuff like evidence and witnesses and you know, stuff like that, rather than just guessing!

And I applaud Liverpool for coming out with this hard line about racist behaviour at Anfield.

When there were two arrests at OT last season for racist chanting, what did United say about this? I suppose they issued a statement that stated this type of behaviour was unacceptable and that if found guilty the abusers would be banned for life...or something like that! Imagine if they said nothing and just brushed what is clearly a 'big deal' to United fans, i.e. racism at football, under the carpet and nothing was heard about this possible disgusting behaviour, imagine that?

BillyBobTaunton

So you have no evidence he lied on this occasion?

johnsonsbaby

fella I see where your coming from, I just wish that this could all end now, and I think you have seen in the past that I dont think Suarez was being racist and I still stand by that.
I just think its a great shame that Evra is being called a liar, but ah well the joys of football eh

"When there were two arrests at OT last season for racist chanting"

except there weren't, it was indecent chanting, we have already been over this.

"I think when they talk about banning someone for life if found guilty, they mean if actually found guilty with stuff like evidence and witnesses and you know, stuff like that, rather than just guessing!"

so do you mean like video footage and witness evidence ?

they should qualify the statement really dont you think ?

RED - you are one of the more level headed in this for sure. Unfortunately this isn't going away any time soon and for me, the FA must take the major part of the blame for unleashing a monster when they had it in their power to punish both parties!

i would agree to both parties being punished actually but it doesnt make Evra a liar.

red666

No, no evidence mate, I am using 'balance of probability', he's got form for this, so he probably lied!
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Siempre

Indecent chanting...is that like the songs the United fans sang on Saturday?

Anyway, I thought it was racist/indecent chanting...do you have a link to support this claim?

Also, i'm not sure what you are getting at with regards to Liverpool 'qualifying the statement'...from what you posted it was pretty clear to me what they meant, i.e. anyone found guilty, as in found guilty, as in FOUND GUILTY!

Siempre

Oooh, an admission that the FA may have made a mess of this!

Do you think that by not punishing Evra, the FA have given Liverpool fans a reason to boooooo Evra....as the man who abused one of their players and got away with it?

Are you saying Suarez wasn't found guilty, because I think you will find he was , whether you think that was fair or not is a different matter.