Flattery will get you everywhere,as you well know in your bottom slurping dealings with the chaps from L4 4EL.
Have you had any luck with the banjo player yet
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I said that several times the last time I tried to show you the reality of the situation....shame you took until now to grasp it.
Congratulations on finally getting there though. Unless of course you appreciate the reasons why we need to increase revenue and, naturally following that, have the stadium issue sorted out....but still think the issue is the boards alleged starting price!.
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You're not clever enough to patronise me CC, so save it.
Your argument has more holes than a tramps sock & could pull it to pieces slice by slice, but I really can't be rsed, so I'll leave you with this.........
Kewnright's reported asking price (assuming it includes the debt) would return him circa 2.5 times his original investment & yet you proclaim that no-one would want to take EFC on at ANY PRICE, as there's no money to be made out of it.....sort of kills your theory stone dead don't you think?
Kills his theory stone dead? It ignores the face that even at a money making price of 150M we have not seen one serious bid made!
Now i am not sure here who has had a bump on the head
It ignores the face that even at a money making price of 150M we have not seen one serious bid made!
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Our friend doesn't consider the asking price to be an issue though....he's maintaining that the club wouldn't be sold at ANY PRICE & yet he's happy for Kenwright to ask a price that would make him a massive personal ROI.
He's a walking contradiction.
What is the agenda of the bloke from Blue kipper steve ?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
And as stated previously, don't you silly billys think that if there had been a seriously interested buyer out there who was put off by a silly asking price, we would know about it? Not even one percent of Estonians have managed to get themselves
Evertonians! Bludy predictive text!
Get themselves a load of press, surely a buyer would want to generate some media pressure as well seeing how easy it is to generate. The blue union is a good idea, their goal is the same as every evertonian. The problem is, for me, that they are adding to the negative atmosphere at the club and are now taking it to a match day. Every match should be approached positively, how can that happen when all the build up is about 203 people and two dogs staging q protest about the fact the board have no money! Will you try and answer this question without a question of your own or without some random sarcastic comment and a wink: given we have no prospective buyer, would you rather we stayed as we are - premiership survival, selling to buy
Or would you rather they borrowed 50 mill to chase a top 6 place and bankrupt us? At the moment they are the only two options.
All this sabre rattling you are doing means absolutely nothing if we haven't got a viable alternative on the table
.....one last time then....we are agreed that 150mn is a price that is beyond all sense for the club ok. We'll ignore the fact that there is absolutely no confirmation whatsoever from anywhere that this is 'the' asking price and we'll assume it is.
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Harris confirmed it was "about that" & he should be aware of the asking price, given that he's been hawking the club around.
You agree that £150M is a noddy number, so why do you condone it being the figure that Kenwright & Co are looking for? That's a paradox.
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We ignore your wishful and naieve hoping for another Abrahamovitch or Sheikh Mansour because they are ludicrously few and far between. No sensible businessman will pay 150mn for a club that he has to then put hundreds of millions more into to even get a hint of a return.
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Kenwright & Earl have put phook all in & are looking for a massive return, so why do you assume that the next owner will never get a whiff of one?
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No sensible businessman would buy that for a token value either as he is still having to pump in hundreds of millions in infrastructure for any kind of return...moreso with the new UEFA rules coming in.
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The new UEFA rules exclude infrastructure investment, so that's a red herring. So you're still maintaining that the club wouldn't selll for £1?
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So, and this is the bit you really need to focus on ok, it makes no difference whatsoever, at all, of any kind, whether the board have actually hung a pricetag of £150mn on the club or not. They arent getting it anyway. So its meaningless. Its not scaring away any serious investors as the need to match the revenues generated by the top 4 teams, from a club that cant do it with current infrastucture, has already done that.
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So you're refusing to accept that the asking price would inhibit any sale, or restrict the level of serious interest?
What planet are you currently inhabiting? If you wanted to sell your house & put in on the market at £1M, when it's worth fraction of that, would you expect there to be a glut of viewings? There'd be no-one to come & have a serious poke around & discover that there was a sewage farm at the end of the garden.......your denial that the asking price has any relevance is truly bizarre.
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I AM scared of Earl getting to a point where he wants rid of the whole mess and, to guarantee the sale of his, puts pressure on Kenwright to sell the block of both their shares at cost. It wouldnt take much to gain a controlling interest from there. You are looking at an outlay of £20mn to get your hands on a club with an easy £100mn of player assets on the books. Think about it.
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Oh right, 2 paragraphs up you re-iterated your assertion that "
No sensible businessman would buy that for a token value either " & now your worried that Earl selling at cost would open the floodgates for chancers?
As for asset stripping, liquidating £35M of assets & spending (thus far) a grand total of £500K plus add ons for replacements............open your eyes, as your 'nightmare scenario' is already unfolding before your very eyes pal.
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CC,
After studying your above points, and loooking at your argument logically.
Can you play the banjo?
CC - I see you're still constructing arguments that resemble that tramps sock, I shall reply later from home
Exactly....ABOUT that. He didnt say it IS that did he?. Is 100mn about that?. 120, 130???. Or is he just saying something off the cuff to a journalist. Like I said no confirmation of anything.
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How is £100M "about" the same as £150M?
Do you really think that the interviewer who asked the question just 'plucked' that figure out of the air?
Is it possible that he was maybe prompted to ask that exact question, by the man given the task of generating interest in the club?
Surely not...............
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Because it keeps away those who would try to pick us up on the cheap and sell players off to line their own pockets and does nothing to deter a real investor.
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So a "real" suitor would be able to see beyond the noddy asking price & realise that despite it being the price tag put on the business, by the current owners, that they could get it for any price they care to offer? (as you've also said that in your opinion it wouldn't sell for £1)
But a charlatan would look at the price & wander off as he wouldn't have the same ability to realise that the price was noddy & he could get it for a song?
Interesting 'logic' there CC
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Looking for a massive return....just like Gillette & Hicks were....they didnt get a massive return either. Just like our board wont. They can 'look for' anything they like its irrelevent and pointless.
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H&G got scuppered by RBS, they turned down £400M from DIC before RBS put them into virtual administration (minus the points deduction). Their asking price was seen as 'aspirational' to the outsider, but they were prepared to stand firm on it, & as a direct result DIC walked away, so their asking price was as far from "irrelevant" as you can get...........as they wanted to achieve it, so I can't think of a worse example for you to have chosen to back up your ridiculous theory tbh.
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Selling a business not a house TB. Starting not to be surprised you dont know why there is a difference between the two types of sale.
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The principle of being able to sell anything, anytime, if the price is right, is universal pal, so the analogy is perfectly valid. If you want a discussion about enterprise value & business valuation in general, then crack on btw
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Flawed analogy. Everyone knows about Evertons 'sewage farm' upfront. The true analogy would be the picture on the sales brochure having a big shot of the sewage farm...would you get as far as looking at the list price?. No you wouldn't....you certainly wouldnt turn around to the vendor and say 'tell you what mate, knock the price down 70% and I'll just deal with the smell!'.
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So some potential investor from the Far East knows all about the issues facing EFC from their general knowledge? LOL, you're dredging the depths of that sewage farm now.
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I do believe he's got it!. Advertise something cheap and you bring it into range of those without the resources to do a proper job...at that point we are dependent on this board to do a proper job of vetting them. You trust the board to do that if Earl is standing there demanding his money back?. The club isnt going to sell to a real constructive owner at a high or low price until it can generate more revenue than it does now. Why make it cheap enough to tempt the chancers?.
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But you reckon it's not worth £1 to anyone who was "serious", so how can you seriously claim that a low asking price would attract the wrong "sort"?
It'd be Blue Bills job to sort through the suitors & choose the correct one btw - albeit, given that he was in serious negotiations with a bloke who lived in a Manchester bedsit, I'm not overly convinced that he's going to make the correct decision........
You've also just inadvertently admitted there that a lower asking price would generate more interest btw - BINGO!
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Nowhere even close. I'm talking about the bloke who leverages £20mn to pick up a controlling interest and then flogs off Fellaini in the first window to cover his position...puts no money in and flogs off players to line his own pocket regardless of anyone elses views. He's the real nightmare.
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There's worse out there than Kewnright & Co, on that I will concede. However, the fact remains that they've liberated £35M of assets in just over 12 months & have brought in a couple of loan players & 'invested' £500K up front on Gibson. Until we signed him we'd not bought a first team player for a fee, for nearly 2 1/2 years......just how bad do you want it to get, before you concede, that they're spent & have far from altruistic intentions regarding their investment in EFC?
You do realise that by reducing the debt they're potentially increasing their return don't you?
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This board are witless, but, they have not sold anyone out from underneath Moyes since when...Rooney?. Ellis Short and Randy Learner have both done far worse to Sunderland and Villa respectively in the name of cutting the wage bill and they definitely are not potless and both of those clubs are the biggest names in their towns. We've offloaded a few fringe players like Vaughan and had a couple of wantaways like Yak and Arteta. I've not seen any commentry from anywhere that any of our board has been taking that money out of the club though...the comment often is that money is going back to the bank. You reckon a chancer coming in does that?.
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Lerner & Short have invested £M's of their own cash into their respective clubs, both have since converted some of that cash into equity. The fact that they're now looking to get their clubs cost base back into the realms of reality, doesn't alter the FACT that they have lumped large amounts of their own funds onto the balance sheets of Villa & Sunderland.
In case you've forgotten, Kenwright & Co have invested £0 in a decade.....
TB,
That should sort it out ,if he comes back now he is a glutton for punishment.
One more notable absentee is showing an unusual wise head by steering clear Well done.TB
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
"In case you`ve forgotten,Kenwright & co have invested £0 in a decade"
Irrelevant.
Pity you didn`t put that at the top of your post.
It would have saved me reading the rest of it.
CC,
Bearing in mind that no sensible buyers would be interested in a buy out.......
Do you consider Bill is telling lies when he tells us he has 3 or 4 potential buyers at the dooor ?
When there is no fixed value given!. 100mn is closer to 150mn than £50 or 500mn is. Its a non-specific term simple as that. You are choosing to fit supposition to your facts and telling me your close to the truth!.
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No, quite the reverse, you are choosing to do that Steve, you're taking the comment around circa £150M & saying that it could be 30% less than that. I've just taken the comment at face value.
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Nope a real suitor wouldnt get as far as looking at the asking price when the clubs turnover is a matter of public record.
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What has turnover got to do with enterprise value?
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You have just proved what I've been saying all along!. G&H could've asked any price they dreamt up....they were never going to get it....all what you have written above proves that our current board can ask 150mn or 150bn, its meaningless, they'll only get what its worth or they'll lose out completely when the bank finally step in. Gillette and Hicks are the perfect example that the act of sticking on a fantasy-fuelled asking price is a losing bet.
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Let's just go through this slowly, as you appear to lost a grasp on your original argument here.
You originally stated that the asking price was an "irrelevance" & have used H&G in an attempt to prove your point.
H&G TURNED DOWN a bid of £400M for the club from DIC, so their asking price was totallly relevant wasn't it? As they were adamant that they were going to achieve it, that's not how it panned out due to RBS, but the salient point being, that they put their price tag on it & refused to take an offer that was 20% less.
Your entire argument relating to EFC is that the asking price will deter no-one, as anyone serious would treat it as an "irrelevance".
Your example shows that is simply not the case, as the owners you chose to mention, dismissed suitors who weren't prepared to pay their valuation.
This is the situation that EFC now find themselves in & the reason that we've not been sold despite being on the market for years now.......
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Universal maybe....but wrong in context. Yes, we could get a sale tomorrow at the right price, to someone who would make money off the club by selling off our best talent. So there is a bit more to it than glib one liners.
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It's not a "glib one liner" it's a simple fact of life. The fact that it doesn't suit your argument doesn't diminish it's relevance.
As you're choosing to take the view that at an asking price of £1 we'd end up with a charlatan, but at an asking price of £150M we'll somehow end up with a well meaning soul.
Your view is clouded by baseless supposition, & is ultimately fuelled by your rather strange desire to back the current incumbents position, which I find bemusing.
Have a read of this Steve;
http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/11-12/comment/fan/20212.html
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Given your taste for mindless one-liners mate I dont think you really want to do that with me.
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Try me, as I know, that I have a vastly superior knowledge to you on issues of this nature. That opinion is based on reading your posts over a long period, you're far from an expert in the field of business. You're enforcing that view in this thread btw. So as I said, crack on.
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Because the wrong sort arent interested in keeping us going any longer than it takes for them to sell off our brightest talent then flog the club on for whatever they can get for it. Give them a nice low buying price and it makes the club reachable for more and more of them. Dont you know any of this?. Its real basic stuff!.
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You're adding your own supposition that every investor attracted by the opportunity would have sinister motives. As I said previously, a low price would attract more potential suitors - this is a fact, depsite your non-sensical protestations to the contrary - it would then be the responsibility of the current board to ensure they made the right decision for the future of the business when choosing the one they wanted to sell to.
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Yes from bloody carpetbaggers of course it would....I've said that all along though haven't I?!!!
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No, you've said from the off, that it wouldn't sell for £1, to anyone who was worth having. You've also said, that a high asking price wouldn't deter anyone.
Both statements are total bollox, & you've spent the last couple of days, posting tripe that attempts to justify them. The simple facts are that you can't Steve, as it is tripe & as much as you attempt to dress it up as fillet, it'll always remain offal.........
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When did I say I wanted them to stay?. I said they haven't siphoned off funds into a Swiss account as we've no proof they have and very few suggestions that its a possibility.
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Who said that they had? Not me
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Only if they get a sale...and I dont believe that will happen until we get new infrastructure anyway....so its a bit of a wasted point on me. Lowering the debt, particularly the overdraft, should reduce interest payments going out and improve the annual figures remember. Wont be enough to draw in the investors but it might give Moyes some room on salaries in the near term.
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New infrastructure under this shower will never happen. So that's a moot point, they'll sell shortly, as their asset is now losing value & they know it, hence the debt reduction. as any advisor would be telling them to do just that.
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Irrelevent. They are still in the same situation we are despite them piling cash into their clubs and have been far more destructive to the playing squad than we have had at Everton.
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How is it irrelevant? Lerner & Short have invested cash that they have converted into equity - FACT, Kenwright & Co have invested £0 -FACT. They've therefore done more for their respective clubs that our board have done for ours -FACT.
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Seriously?. You think the financial viability of a business isnt a factor in its value?. You think the costs to return a business to viability aren't a factor in its value?.
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No Steve, I asked a specific question, what has turnover got to do with enterprise value? In your own time........
Did G&H go on to sell their club for their valuation?.
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No you donk, but they turned down a bid £100M more than the eventual sale price, due to their belief that their asking price was attainable, so their asking price was an inhibitor to the sale of Liverpool FC to a very suitable purchaser.
Which blows your theory that our current incumbents asking price is an "irrelvance" out of the water, with an example of your own choosing
Nope thats your spin on what I'm saying. I've said countless times that at £1 we are fair game for a greater number of charlatans and that we wont sell at £150mn or £1 to a constructive owner as no constructive owner will entertain a business that needs as much investment as us.
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I know exactly what you've been spouting & it's total assumption based on nothing whatsoever.
To say that anyone with a business brain wouldn't take EFC on at £1 plus the debt, isn't a fact is it? It's merely YOUR assumption based on how YOU perceive the future business potential & the ROCE.
Or do you claim to speak for the entire business commnunity?
Sign in if you want to comment
The Blue Union
Page 3 of 4
posted on 29/1/12
Flattery will get you everywhere,as you well know in your bottom slurping dealings with the chaps from L4 4EL.
Have you had any luck with the banjo player yet
posted on 29/1/12
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posted on 29/1/12
I said that several times the last time I tried to show you the reality of the situation....shame you took until now to grasp it.
Congratulations on finally getting there though. Unless of course you appreciate the reasons why we need to increase revenue and, naturally following that, have the stadium issue sorted out....but still think the issue is the boards alleged starting price!.
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You're not clever enough to patronise me CC, so save it.
Your argument has more holes than a tramps sock & could pull it to pieces slice by slice, but I really can't be rsed, so I'll leave you with this.........
Kewnright's reported asking price (assuming it includes the debt) would return him circa 2.5 times his original investment & yet you proclaim that no-one would want to take EFC on at ANY PRICE, as there's no money to be made out of it.....sort of kills your theory stone dead don't you think?
posted on 29/1/12
Kills his theory stone dead? It ignores the face that even at a money making price of 150M we have not seen one serious bid made!
Now i am not sure here who has had a bump on the head
posted on 29/1/12
It ignores the face that even at a money making price of 150M we have not seen one serious bid made!
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Our friend doesn't consider the asking price to be an issue though....he's maintaining that the club wouldn't be sold at ANY PRICE & yet he's happy for Kenwright to ask a price that would make him a massive personal ROI.
He's a walking contradiction.
posted on 29/1/12
What is the agenda of the bloke from Blue kipper steve ?
posted on 29/1/12
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posted on 30/1/12
And as stated previously, don't you silly billys think that if there had been a seriously interested buyer out there who was put off by a silly asking price, we would know about it? Not even one percent of Estonians have managed to get themselves
posted on 30/1/12
Evertonians! Bludy predictive text!
Get themselves a load of press, surely a buyer would want to generate some media pressure as well seeing how easy it is to generate. The blue union is a good idea, their goal is the same as every evertonian. The problem is, for me, that they are adding to the negative atmosphere at the club and are now taking it to a match day. Every match should be approached positively, how can that happen when all the build up is about 203 people and two dogs staging q protest about the fact the board have no money! Will you try and answer this question without a question of your own or without some random sarcastic comment and a wink: given we have no prospective buyer, would you rather we stayed as we are - premiership survival, selling to buy
posted on 30/1/12
Or would you rather they borrowed 50 mill to chase a top 6 place and bankrupt us? At the moment they are the only two options.
All this sabre rattling you are doing means absolutely nothing if we haven't got a viable alternative on the table
posted on 30/1/12
.....one last time then....we are agreed that 150mn is a price that is beyond all sense for the club ok. We'll ignore the fact that there is absolutely no confirmation whatsoever from anywhere that this is 'the' asking price and we'll assume it is.
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Harris confirmed it was "about that" & he should be aware of the asking price, given that he's been hawking the club around.
You agree that £150M is a noddy number, so why do you condone it being the figure that Kenwright & Co are looking for? That's a paradox.
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We ignore your wishful and naieve hoping for another Abrahamovitch or Sheikh Mansour because they are ludicrously few and far between. No sensible businessman will pay 150mn for a club that he has to then put hundreds of millions more into to even get a hint of a return.
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Kenwright & Earl have put phook all in & are looking for a massive return, so why do you assume that the next owner will never get a whiff of one?
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No sensible businessman would buy that for a token value either as he is still having to pump in hundreds of millions in infrastructure for any kind of return...moreso with the new UEFA rules coming in.
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The new UEFA rules exclude infrastructure investment, so that's a red herring. So you're still maintaining that the club wouldn't selll for £1?
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So, and this is the bit you really need to focus on ok, it makes no difference whatsoever, at all, of any kind, whether the board have actually hung a pricetag of £150mn on the club or not. They arent getting it anyway. So its meaningless. Its not scaring away any serious investors as the need to match the revenues generated by the top 4 teams, from a club that cant do it with current infrastucture, has already done that.
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So you're refusing to accept that the asking price would inhibit any sale, or restrict the level of serious interest?
What planet are you currently inhabiting? If you wanted to sell your house & put in on the market at £1M, when it's worth fraction of that, would you expect there to be a glut of viewings? There'd be no-one to come & have a serious poke around & discover that there was a sewage farm at the end of the garden.......your denial that the asking price has any relevance is truly bizarre.
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I AM scared of Earl getting to a point where he wants rid of the whole mess and, to guarantee the sale of his, puts pressure on Kenwright to sell the block of both their shares at cost. It wouldnt take much to gain a controlling interest from there. You are looking at an outlay of £20mn to get your hands on a club with an easy £100mn of player assets on the books. Think about it.
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Oh right, 2 paragraphs up you re-iterated your assertion that "
No sensible businessman would buy that for a token value either " & now your worried that Earl selling at cost would open the floodgates for chancers?
As for asset stripping, liquidating £35M of assets & spending (thus far) a grand total of £500K plus add ons for replacements............open your eyes, as your 'nightmare scenario' is already unfolding before your very eyes pal.
posted on 30/1/12
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posted on 30/1/12
CC,
After studying your above points, and loooking at your argument logically.
Can you play the banjo?
posted on 30/1/12
CC - I see you're still constructing arguments that resemble that tramps sock, I shall reply later from home
posted on 30/1/12
Exactly....ABOUT that. He didnt say it IS that did he?. Is 100mn about that?. 120, 130???. Or is he just saying something off the cuff to a journalist. Like I said no confirmation of anything.
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How is £100M "about" the same as £150M?
Do you really think that the interviewer who asked the question just 'plucked' that figure out of the air?
Is it possible that he was maybe prompted to ask that exact question, by the man given the task of generating interest in the club?
Surely not...............
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Because it keeps away those who would try to pick us up on the cheap and sell players off to line their own pockets and does nothing to deter a real investor.
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So a "real" suitor would be able to see beyond the noddy asking price & realise that despite it being the price tag put on the business, by the current owners, that they could get it for any price they care to offer? (as you've also said that in your opinion it wouldn't sell for £1)
But a charlatan would look at the price & wander off as he wouldn't have the same ability to realise that the price was noddy & he could get it for a song?
Interesting 'logic' there CC
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Looking for a massive return....just like Gillette & Hicks were....they didnt get a massive return either. Just like our board wont. They can 'look for' anything they like its irrelevent and pointless.
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H&G got scuppered by RBS, they turned down £400M from DIC before RBS put them into virtual administration (minus the points deduction). Their asking price was seen as 'aspirational' to the outsider, but they were prepared to stand firm on it, & as a direct result DIC walked away, so their asking price was as far from "irrelevant" as you can get...........as they wanted to achieve it, so I can't think of a worse example for you to have chosen to back up your ridiculous theory tbh.
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Selling a business not a house TB. Starting not to be surprised you dont know why there is a difference between the two types of sale.
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The principle of being able to sell anything, anytime, if the price is right, is universal pal, so the analogy is perfectly valid. If you want a discussion about enterprise value & business valuation in general, then crack on btw
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Flawed analogy. Everyone knows about Evertons 'sewage farm' upfront. The true analogy would be the picture on the sales brochure having a big shot of the sewage farm...would you get as far as looking at the list price?. No you wouldn't....you certainly wouldnt turn around to the vendor and say 'tell you what mate, knock the price down 70% and I'll just deal with the smell!'.
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So some potential investor from the Far East knows all about the issues facing EFC from their general knowledge? LOL, you're dredging the depths of that sewage farm now.
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I do believe he's got it!. Advertise something cheap and you bring it into range of those without the resources to do a proper job...at that point we are dependent on this board to do a proper job of vetting them. You trust the board to do that if Earl is standing there demanding his money back?. The club isnt going to sell to a real constructive owner at a high or low price until it can generate more revenue than it does now. Why make it cheap enough to tempt the chancers?.
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But you reckon it's not worth £1 to anyone who was "serious", so how can you seriously claim that a low asking price would attract the wrong "sort"?
It'd be Blue Bills job to sort through the suitors & choose the correct one btw - albeit, given that he was in serious negotiations with a bloke who lived in a Manchester bedsit, I'm not overly convinced that he's going to make the correct decision........
You've also just inadvertently admitted there that a lower asking price would generate more interest btw - BINGO!
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Nowhere even close. I'm talking about the bloke who leverages £20mn to pick up a controlling interest and then flogs off Fellaini in the first window to cover his position...puts no money in and flogs off players to line his own pocket regardless of anyone elses views. He's the real nightmare.
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There's worse out there than Kewnright & Co, on that I will concede. However, the fact remains that they've liberated £35M of assets in just over 12 months & have brought in a couple of loan players & 'invested' £500K up front on Gibson. Until we signed him we'd not bought a first team player for a fee, for nearly 2 1/2 years......just how bad do you want it to get, before you concede, that they're spent & have far from altruistic intentions regarding their investment in EFC?
You do realise that by reducing the debt they're potentially increasing their return don't you?
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This board are witless, but, they have not sold anyone out from underneath Moyes since when...Rooney?. Ellis Short and Randy Learner have both done far worse to Sunderland and Villa respectively in the name of cutting the wage bill and they definitely are not potless and both of those clubs are the biggest names in their towns. We've offloaded a few fringe players like Vaughan and had a couple of wantaways like Yak and Arteta. I've not seen any commentry from anywhere that any of our board has been taking that money out of the club though...the comment often is that money is going back to the bank. You reckon a chancer coming in does that?.
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Lerner & Short have invested £M's of their own cash into their respective clubs, both have since converted some of that cash into equity. The fact that they're now looking to get their clubs cost base back into the realms of reality, doesn't alter the FACT that they have lumped large amounts of their own funds onto the balance sheets of Villa & Sunderland.
In case you've forgotten, Kenwright & Co have invested £0 in a decade.....
posted on 30/1/12
TB,
That should sort it out ,if he comes back now he is a glutton for punishment.
One more notable absentee is showing an unusual wise head by steering clear Well done.TB
posted on 31/1/12
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posted on 31/1/12
"In case you`ve forgotten,Kenwright & co have invested £0 in a decade"
Irrelevant.
Pity you didn`t put that at the top of your post.
It would have saved me reading the rest of it.
posted on 31/1/12
CC,
Bearing in mind that no sensible buyers would be interested in a buy out.......
Do you consider Bill is telling lies when he tells us he has 3 or 4 potential buyers at the dooor ?
posted on 31/1/12
When there is no fixed value given!. 100mn is closer to 150mn than £50 or 500mn is. Its a non-specific term simple as that. You are choosing to fit supposition to your facts and telling me your close to the truth!.
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No, quite the reverse, you are choosing to do that Steve, you're taking the comment around circa £150M & saying that it could be 30% less than that. I've just taken the comment at face value.
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Nope a real suitor wouldnt get as far as looking at the asking price when the clubs turnover is a matter of public record.
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What has turnover got to do with enterprise value?
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You have just proved what I've been saying all along!. G&H could've asked any price they dreamt up....they were never going to get it....all what you have written above proves that our current board can ask 150mn or 150bn, its meaningless, they'll only get what its worth or they'll lose out completely when the bank finally step in. Gillette and Hicks are the perfect example that the act of sticking on a fantasy-fuelled asking price is a losing bet.
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Let's just go through this slowly, as you appear to lost a grasp on your original argument here.
You originally stated that the asking price was an "irrelevance" & have used H&G in an attempt to prove your point.
H&G TURNED DOWN a bid of £400M for the club from DIC, so their asking price was totallly relevant wasn't it? As they were adamant that they were going to achieve it, that's not how it panned out due to RBS, but the salient point being, that they put their price tag on it & refused to take an offer that was 20% less.
Your entire argument relating to EFC is that the asking price will deter no-one, as anyone serious would treat it as an "irrelevance".
Your example shows that is simply not the case, as the owners you chose to mention, dismissed suitors who weren't prepared to pay their valuation.
This is the situation that EFC now find themselves in & the reason that we've not been sold despite being on the market for years now.......
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Universal maybe....but wrong in context. Yes, we could get a sale tomorrow at the right price, to someone who would make money off the club by selling off our best talent. So there is a bit more to it than glib one liners.
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It's not a "glib one liner" it's a simple fact of life. The fact that it doesn't suit your argument doesn't diminish it's relevance.
As you're choosing to take the view that at an asking price of £1 we'd end up with a charlatan, but at an asking price of £150M we'll somehow end up with a well meaning soul.
Your view is clouded by baseless supposition, & is ultimately fuelled by your rather strange desire to back the current incumbents position, which I find bemusing.
Have a read of this Steve;
http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/11-12/comment/fan/20212.html
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Given your taste for mindless one-liners mate I dont think you really want to do that with me.
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Try me, as I know, that I have a vastly superior knowledge to you on issues of this nature. That opinion is based on reading your posts over a long period, you're far from an expert in the field of business. You're enforcing that view in this thread btw. So as I said, crack on.
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Because the wrong sort arent interested in keeping us going any longer than it takes for them to sell off our brightest talent then flog the club on for whatever they can get for it. Give them a nice low buying price and it makes the club reachable for more and more of them. Dont you know any of this?. Its real basic stuff!.
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You're adding your own supposition that every investor attracted by the opportunity would have sinister motives. As I said previously, a low price would attract more potential suitors - this is a fact, depsite your non-sensical protestations to the contrary - it would then be the responsibility of the current board to ensure they made the right decision for the future of the business when choosing the one they wanted to sell to.
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Yes from bloody carpetbaggers of course it would....I've said that all along though haven't I?!!!
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No, you've said from the off, that it wouldn't sell for £1, to anyone who was worth having. You've also said, that a high asking price wouldn't deter anyone.
Both statements are total bollox, & you've spent the last couple of days, posting tripe that attempts to justify them. The simple facts are that you can't Steve, as it is tripe & as much as you attempt to dress it up as fillet, it'll always remain offal.........
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When did I say I wanted them to stay?. I said they haven't siphoned off funds into a Swiss account as we've no proof they have and very few suggestions that its a possibility.
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Who said that they had? Not me
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Only if they get a sale...and I dont believe that will happen until we get new infrastructure anyway....so its a bit of a wasted point on me. Lowering the debt, particularly the overdraft, should reduce interest payments going out and improve the annual figures remember. Wont be enough to draw in the investors but it might give Moyes some room on salaries in the near term.
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New infrastructure under this shower will never happen. So that's a moot point, they'll sell shortly, as their asset is now losing value & they know it, hence the debt reduction. as any advisor would be telling them to do just that.
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Irrelevent. They are still in the same situation we are despite them piling cash into their clubs and have been far more destructive to the playing squad than we have had at Everton.
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How is it irrelevant? Lerner & Short have invested cash that they have converted into equity - FACT, Kenwright & Co have invested £0 -FACT. They've therefore done more for their respective clubs that our board have done for ours -FACT.
posted on 31/1/12
posted on 31/1/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 31/1/12
Seriously?. You think the financial viability of a business isnt a factor in its value?. You think the costs to return a business to viability aren't a factor in its value?.
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No Steve, I asked a specific question, what has turnover got to do with enterprise value? In your own time........
posted on 31/1/12
Did G&H go on to sell their club for their valuation?.
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No you donk, but they turned down a bid £100M more than the eventual sale price, due to their belief that their asking price was attainable, so their asking price was an inhibitor to the sale of Liverpool FC to a very suitable purchaser.
Which blows your theory that our current incumbents asking price is an "irrelvance" out of the water, with an example of your own choosing
posted on 31/1/12
Nope thats your spin on what I'm saying. I've said countless times that at £1 we are fair game for a greater number of charlatans and that we wont sell at £150mn or £1 to a constructive owner as no constructive owner will entertain a business that needs as much investment as us.
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I know exactly what you've been spouting & it's total assumption based on nothing whatsoever.
To say that anyone with a business brain wouldn't take EFC on at £1 plus the debt, isn't a fact is it? It's merely YOUR assumption based on how YOU perceive the future business potential & the ROCE.
Or do you claim to speak for the entire business commnunity?
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