Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I think it is embarrassing the amount of grown men on here who fawn like love sick puppies for Juan-king Billy to come back!
________
I know its awful.
This is defiantly the first time Forest fans have gone on and on about someone who used to manage us. You'd never see Derby fans doing that.
He'll be ok... some small town Scottish club will offer him a job.
As for us, I hope he keeps his gob shut as it doesn't help when he spouts off in public about wanting the job back when he knows he has no chance of getting it.
He's trouble and not helping our situation
Forests problems are worse than I thought. Just saw Frank Clarke on telly saying you could challenge again next season. The words where in total contrast to his body language. I think he's out of his depth and doesn't have the business acumen to turn you round.
Iwas
I thought he was going to cry
Same here Webbo. His bottom lip was wobbling a bit. He was not convincing at all.
"You could use the same arguement for Cloughie..."
You can cut that out right now. There's nothing wrong with Davies' motivational management, but the point being made here is that his methods are not sustainable. Clough kept you competitive at the top level for nearly 15 years! The fact that Billy manages to engineer himself a pay off before he has to deal with any of the fallout doesn't clear him of responsibility.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The fact that Billy manages to engineer himself a pay off before he has to deal with any of the fallout doesn't clear him of responsibility.
___________
What responsibility would you like him to take?
He wanted out of Forest and went about it the wrong way. I won't stand up for him on that one. But what part of this current mess is his fault?
"What responsibility would you like him to take?"
I am not well enough informed on the situation at Forest to say. As far as Derby are concerned I'd say he was responsible for leaving a poor and grossly overpaid first team squad on long term contracts.
He was responsible for shutting down our reserves which caused a few problems. Fringe players were not properly prepared to replace injured or dropped first team players and there was no natural progression from our youth set up towards the first team.
He was responsible for poor management of our youth teams. Losing Terry Westly and bringing in one of his own guys. Of course it could just be coincidence that our fairly consistant supply of youngsters dried up in and follwing Davies' reign, but I don't think so.
He was responsible for the terrible atmosphere around the club. He has always prefered that players play for Billy Davies, not for the club he's managing. Many managers are guilty of this and when things are going well it works, however it becomes demotivtional once the manager starts arguing with the board, saying he wishes he got another team promoted etc...
Everything about Davies' management style screams short termism. All resources are funnelled into his select group of first team players whilst he allows everything else around the club to stagnate. This is why it takes teams so long to recover. Maybe he'd be a better coach than a manager, but that would involve working with others and cooperation. Not Davies' forté I'm sure you'll agree.
I think that the odious Davies is a good Championship manager, as proved with Preston, Derby and the dogs, however there are a couple of things to consider.
The constant whinging and whining may be good for motivating his team, siege mentality and all that, but it does not ingratiate yourself to those that provide the players for you.
His transfer dealings are very much hit or miss, just like any other manager although his misses seem to be the ones that cost a fortune both in payment and wages. The man has no concept of football finances and can wreck a club with his expenditure.
Perhaps managers should be seen like players, good for one league but not for another, look at Warnock. Davies is this kind of manager, but his nature also means he is an expensive gamble if it doesn’t come off.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I posted something similar on the forest boards the other month. Billy has a great record at this level but the fact that he's done this at 3 clubs in succession tells me it's obviously part of the BD make up. He ruins the foundations of the clubs but if that's what people want for a brief bit of success then it's up to them.
N Clough still has a lot to prove but he has steadied a sinking ship here. The fact that clubs are now looking at our youngsters says we are doing something right for a change. GSE and Clough take a lot of stick but maybe they are actually building the right foundations for future football clubs to follow
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
"Fortunately our ousted chairman's legacy was a fantastic academy which has a bounty of players coming through."
I think you'll find that your chairman is, infact, the devil incarnate and pumping millions of his own money into the club for years was a just clever ruse. Why else would he have sacked the greatest manager that ever lived?
Owd WMD loves Forest more than Direby just like Clough. When he's dead of course the whole attitude of Direby fans will change, especially if someone makes up a book!
ever considered that Billy has a talent that both his predecessors and successors dont?
The ability to get a team of average players to perform as a collective unit is Billy's talent! So it's obvious that inheriting an average team from a lesser manager would see him improve it's fortunes and similarly, once he leaves, if the next manager hasnt the same ability, then the team would slip back into averageness.
I dont think Billy left Derby in that much of a mess, I think Jewell was the manager that committed us to financial obligations that could cripple us.
How does that motivation argument stand up to the points made about wasting money and allowing other areas of the club to stagnate? Jewell also made some very bad decisions, but again, these don't excuse the ones made by Davies.
If Billy Davies is such a fantastic manager, why has a club not come in for him yet? McClaren is back in a job already!
Wouldn't touch him withabargepole.com
Mostyn is right, BD sets his team out a certain way and plays to its strengths. That doesn't contradict your post Wassa, the downside of BD is that he needed money and didn't get success he left us with an equally average team. Meanwhile he neglected the reserves and youth which is hurting us now.
Following BD is a tough job, it's like he put up nice wallpaper over the top of a crumbling wall. When the next bloke stripped the paper away everything fell apart. Now you have a whole lot of work to do just to get back to the level you were at before BD arrived!
Ah well I've said it before....the fans love me down at the ground. We only need 4 or 5 stella signings and this team, albeit, still learning, and very young can, will be good enough one day to challenge for a top spot. I've said it time and again it's just a matter of time before we identify players that are good enough for Nottingham Forest. This team deserves to be in the Premiersh..........
Shut it Billy....... bog off back to Scotland
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Shut it Billy....... bog off back to Scotland
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Mos, I said something similar to that...though Billy did a lot wrong, there is a lot to be thrown Jewells way as well.
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What is it with Billy Davies where ever he.
Page 2 of 3
posted on 30/1/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/1/12
I think it is embarrassing the amount of grown men on here who fawn like love sick puppies for Juan-king Billy to come back!
________
I know its awful.
This is defiantly the first time Forest fans have gone on and on about someone who used to manage us. You'd never see Derby fans doing that.
posted on 30/1/12
He'll be ok... some small town Scottish club will offer him a job.
As for us, I hope he keeps his gob shut as it doesn't help when he spouts off in public about wanting the job back when he knows he has no chance of getting it.
He's trouble and not helping our situation
posted on 30/1/12
Forests problems are worse than I thought. Just saw Frank Clarke on telly saying you could challenge again next season. The words where in total contrast to his body language. I think he's out of his depth and doesn't have the business acumen to turn you round.
posted on 30/1/12
Iwas
I thought he was going to cry
posted on 30/1/12
Same here Webbo. His bottom lip was wobbling a bit. He was not convincing at all.
posted on 30/1/12
"You could use the same arguement for Cloughie..."
You can cut that out right now. There's nothing wrong with Davies' motivational management, but the point being made here is that his methods are not sustainable. Clough kept you competitive at the top level for nearly 15 years! The fact that Billy manages to engineer himself a pay off before he has to deal with any of the fallout doesn't clear him of responsibility.
posted on 30/1/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/1/12
The fact that Billy manages to engineer himself a pay off before he has to deal with any of the fallout doesn't clear him of responsibility.
___________
What responsibility would you like him to take?
He wanted out of Forest and went about it the wrong way. I won't stand up for him on that one. But what part of this current mess is his fault?
posted on 30/1/12
"What responsibility would you like him to take?"
I am not well enough informed on the situation at Forest to say. As far as Derby are concerned I'd say he was responsible for leaving a poor and grossly overpaid first team squad on long term contracts.
He was responsible for shutting down our reserves which caused a few problems. Fringe players were not properly prepared to replace injured or dropped first team players and there was no natural progression from our youth set up towards the first team.
He was responsible for poor management of our youth teams. Losing Terry Westly and bringing in one of his own guys. Of course it could just be coincidence that our fairly consistant supply of youngsters dried up in and follwing Davies' reign, but I don't think so.
He was responsible for the terrible atmosphere around the club. He has always prefered that players play for Billy Davies, not for the club he's managing. Many managers are guilty of this and when things are going well it works, however it becomes demotivtional once the manager starts arguing with the board, saying he wishes he got another team promoted etc...
Everything about Davies' management style screams short termism. All resources are funnelled into his select group of first team players whilst he allows everything else around the club to stagnate. This is why it takes teams so long to recover. Maybe he'd be a better coach than a manager, but that would involve working with others and cooperation. Not Davies' forté I'm sure you'll agree.
posted on 30/1/12
I think that the odious Davies is a good Championship manager, as proved with Preston, Derby and the dogs, however there are a couple of things to consider.
The constant whinging and whining may be good for motivating his team, siege mentality and all that, but it does not ingratiate yourself to those that provide the players for you.
His transfer dealings are very much hit or miss, just like any other manager although his misses seem to be the ones that cost a fortune both in payment and wages. The man has no concept of football finances and can wreck a club with his expenditure.
Perhaps managers should be seen like players, good for one league but not for another, look at Warnock. Davies is this kind of manager, but his nature also means he is an expensive gamble if it doesn’t come off.
posted on 30/1/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/1/12
I posted something similar on the forest boards the other month. Billy has a great record at this level but the fact that he's done this at 3 clubs in succession tells me it's obviously part of the BD make up. He ruins the foundations of the clubs but if that's what people want for a brief bit of success then it's up to them.
N Clough still has a lot to prove but he has steadied a sinking ship here. The fact that clubs are now looking at our youngsters says we are doing something right for a change. GSE and Clough take a lot of stick but maybe they are actually building the right foundations for future football clubs to follow
posted on 30/1/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/1/12
"Fortunately our ousted chairman's legacy was a fantastic academy which has a bounty of players coming through."
I think you'll find that your chairman is, infact, the devil incarnate and pumping millions of his own money into the club for years was a just clever ruse. Why else would he have sacked the greatest manager that ever lived?
posted on 30/1/12
Owd WMD loves Forest more than Direby just like Clough. When he's dead of course the whole attitude of Direby fans will change, especially if someone makes up a book!
posted on 30/1/12
ever considered that Billy has a talent that both his predecessors and successors dont?
The ability to get a team of average players to perform as a collective unit is Billy's talent! So it's obvious that inheriting an average team from a lesser manager would see him improve it's fortunes and similarly, once he leaves, if the next manager hasnt the same ability, then the team would slip back into averageness.
I dont think Billy left Derby in that much of a mess, I think Jewell was the manager that committed us to financial obligations that could cripple us.
posted on 30/1/12
How does that motivation argument stand up to the points made about wasting money and allowing other areas of the club to stagnate? Jewell also made some very bad decisions, but again, these don't excuse the ones made by Davies.
posted on 30/1/12
If Billy Davies is such a fantastic manager, why has a club not come in for him yet? McClaren is back in a job already!
Wouldn't touch him withabargepole.com
posted on 30/1/12
Mostyn is right, BD sets his team out a certain way and plays to its strengths. That doesn't contradict your post Wassa, the downside of BD is that he needed money and didn't get success he left us with an equally average team. Meanwhile he neglected the reserves and youth which is hurting us now.
Following BD is a tough job, it's like he put up nice wallpaper over the top of a crumbling wall. When the next bloke stripped the paper away everything fell apart. Now you have a whole lot of work to do just to get back to the level you were at before BD arrived!
posted on 30/1/12
Ah well I've said it before....the fans love me down at the ground. We only need 4 or 5 stella signings and this team, albeit, still learning, and very young can, will be good enough one day to challenge for a top spot. I've said it time and again it's just a matter of time before we identify players that are good enough for Nottingham Forest. This team deserves to be in the Premiersh..........
Shut it Billy....... bog off back to Scotland
posted on 30/1/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/1/12
Shut it Billy....... bog off back to Scotland
posted on 30/1/12
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/1/12
Mos, I said something similar to that...though Billy did a lot wrong, there is a lot to be thrown Jewells way as well.
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