TEAMtalk can exclusively reveal that Thiago Silva’s former club AC Milan have been considering a sensational move to bring back the experienced defender.

Silva also likely to miss Spurs with a groin strain

comment by BlueJ2 (U4630)
posted 21 minutes ago
I actually think VAR was right to disallow our last minute goal yesterday. But what annoys me is the inconsistency - if you watch both Arsenal’s goals today from corners you can clearly see Ben White’s role is to push the keeper. That’s all he does - he’s not trying to play the ball. And it works, because from a corner apparently anything goes. Why doesn’t VAR ask the ref to take a look at that?
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If you get VAR to take a look at all the pushing and shoving that happens during a corner, the match would never end.

comment by T.J (U15973)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BlueJ2 (U4630)
posted 21 minutes ago
I actually think VAR was right to disallow our last minute goal yesterday. But what annoys me is the inconsistency - if you watch both Arsenal’s goals today from corners you can clearly see Ben White’s role is to push the keeper. That’s all he does - he’s not trying to play the ball. And it works, because from a corner apparently anything goes. Why doesn’t VAR ask the ref to take a look at that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you get VAR to take a look at all the pushing and shoving that happens during a corner, the match would never end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
….but they did that against us

VAR is tombola basically.

I think it was a foul but whether it hits the threshold of clear and obvious error seems very subjective. Almost at the mercy of whoever is on VAR and their own prejudices.

If the ref had blown for a foul in real time I don't think anyone would've complained too hard but there's no clear criteria over what merits a referral and what's seen as just subjective reffing

I do think Palmer for all his brilliance this season should have stuck that chance away and none of us would be complaining.

One reason City aren't as bothered by var is they take games out var hands by being killers in front of goal.

We haven't been a clinical team for about 7 years

comment by RtM (U1097)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by T.J (U15973)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by BlueJ2 (U4630)
posted 21 minutes ago
I actually think VAR was right to disallow our last minute goal yesterday. But what annoys me is the inconsistency - if you watch both Arsenal’s goals today from corners you can clearly see Ben White’s role is to push the keeper. That’s all he does - he’s not trying to play the ball. And it works, because from a corner apparently anything goes. Why doesn’t VAR ask the ref to take a look at that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you get VAR to take a look at all the pushing and shoving that happens during a corner, the match would never end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
….but they did that against us
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because it was directly involved in the goal. It was a foul but it's stupid they overturn it considering the ref saw the incident and didn't give the foul in real time.

Tbh, I'm sick of VAR, it's genuinely ruined football. I don't even celebrate goals because it feels as if they are just looking for a reason to rule it out.

comment by NPE - Bottom Half FC (U22712)
posted 5 minutes ago
VAR is tombola basically.

I think it was a foul but whether it hits the threshold of clear and obvious error seems very subjective. Almost at the mercy of whoever is on VAR and their own prejudices.

If the ref had blown for a foul in real time I don't think anyone would've complained too hard but there's no clear criteria over what merits a referral and what's seen as just subjective reffing

I do think Palmer for all his brilliance this season should have stuck that chance away and none of us would be complaining.

One reason City aren't as bothered by var is they take games out var hands by being killers in front of goal.

We haven't been a clinical team for about 7 years
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, I get more annoyed we can't finish our dinner in front of goal.

We wouldn't have to worry about VAR in a lot of these games if we could convert some of these sitters we miss.

You could find a foul at just about every corner if you look hard enough so consistency is a massive issue here and this doesn't help those questioning bias with match officials and VAR.

comment by Superb (U6486)
posted about a minute ago
You could find a foul at just about every corner if you look hard enough so consistency is a massive issue here and this doesn't help those questioning bias with match officials and VAR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont even need to look hard, but its the inconsistency cos wasn't in the Haaland goal Vs us that he pushes Cucu over worse than what we saw yesterday - yet the goal was given. This is when we need answers

comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted about a minute ago
You could find a foul at just about every corner if you look hard enough so consistency is a massive issue here and this doesn't help those questioning bias with match officials and VAR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont even need to look hard, but its the inconsistency cos wasn't in the Haaland goal Vs us that he pushes Cucu over worse than what we saw yesterday - yet the goal was given. This is when we need answers
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't understand what you mean by 'answers'. Different VARs interpret subjective rules differently in different matches with different examples,

Chelsea are ready to snatch up Ivan Toney as Brentford are resigned to losing their star man and are willing to accept a bid of around £40 million, according to reports.

Goal.com can reveal that Chelsea are looking at Toney ad a priority signing, with the likes of Newcastle and Tottenham focusing their efforts elsewhere.

Chelsea are also said to be favorites for PSV attacker Johan Bakayoko, who has registered 11 goals and 9 assists so far. This would come as a double blow for Brentford, who reportedly seen a £30 million bid rejected for Bakayoko in January.

(Goal)

comment by NPE - Bottom Half FC (U22712)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted about a minute ago
You could find a foul at just about every corner if you look hard enough so consistency is a massive issue here and this doesn't help those questioning bias with match officials and VAR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont even need to look hard, but its the inconsistency cos wasn't in the Haaland goal Vs us that he pushes Cucu over worse than what we saw yesterday - yet the goal was given. This is when we need answers
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't understand what you mean by 'answers'. Different VARs interpret subjective rules differently in different matches with different examples,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite simple mate that that isn't good enough, especially since we arent asking for anything complex. How is this deemed not a foul, and a player clearly pushes someone.....yet this is a foul? A push that isn't as bad - its not rocket science and interpretations cant be that clearly apart

Its pretty simple and most adults and even kids are capable of doing it with little or no difficulties, so why do paid pros fail to do it with anything like consistency

Dont get me wrong there will be times when interpretation will be needed.......but in the vast majority of calls this isn't the case. The fact that the simple things arent being done properly, and the fact that people arent even interested in questioning stuff or out right saying "that was wrong and doesn't make sense" explain, means we will continue to see sheite like this

comment by NPE - Bottom Half FC (U22712)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted about a minute ago
You could find a foul at just about every corner if you look hard enough so consistency is a massive issue here and this doesn't help those questioning bias with match officials and VAR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont even need to look hard, but its the inconsistency cos wasn't in the Haaland goal Vs us that he pushes Cucu over worse than what we saw yesterday - yet the goal was given. This is when we need answers
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't understand what you mean by 'answers'. Different VARs interpret subjective rules differently in different matches with different examples,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, Gary Lineker said the same onMOTD that it is impossible to get consistency on decisions like the Bads one and I agree.

If there's going to be such glaring discrepancies between these kind of decisions and if highly trained match officials can't be trusted to get bread and butter decisions right due to subjectivity, incompetence or bias then all it does is pave the way for AI to be brought in to be make the final decisions in VAR. Maybe AI would then be used entirely instead of all match officials.

comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 12 minutes ago
If there's going to be such glaring discrepancies between these kind of decisions and if highly trained match officials can't be trusted to get bread and butter decisions right due to subjectivity, incompetence or bias then all it does is pave the way for AI to be brought in to be make the final decisions in VAR. Maybe AI would then be used entirely instead of all match officials.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Is that what you want"

"Cos that's what'll 'appen"

Lee and lance... fast show

https://www.footyheadlines.com/2023/09/chelsea-24-25-home-kit.html

dear lord, what an awful kit we have next season

ur sponsor is a company call Sponsor?

comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 2 hours, 53 minutes ago

comment by NPE - Bottom Half FC (U22712)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted about a minute ago
You could find a foul at just about every corner if you look hard enough so consistency is a massive issue here and this doesn't help those questioning bias with match officials and VAR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont even need to look hard, but its the inconsistency cos wasn't in the Haaland goal Vs us that he pushes Cucu over worse than what we saw yesterday - yet the goal was given. This is when we need answers
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't understand what you mean by 'answers'. Different VARs interpret subjective rules differently in different matches with different examples,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, Gary Lineker said the same onMOTD that it is impossible to get consistency on decisions like the Bads one and I agree.
------------------------------------------------
Yeah I'm with this way of thinking, and agree with Rtm's point earlier.

I can see why that one is particularly controversial. It is a foul, but sh!t like that happens literally all the time in football matches - maybe not that blatantly but it does. Watch any random 5 set pieces from any team anywhere, at least one of them will have a player trying to shove an opponent away from him a little too aggressively.

That's a call that has to be in the referee's hands. Overturning a decision like that is passive acknowledgment that VAR is the referee now, the on-field official is just there for a 90 minute jog

comment by Superb (U6486)
posted about 3 hours ago
If there's going to be such glaring discrepancies between these kind of decisions and if highly trained match officials can't be trusted to get bread and butter decisions right due to subjectivity, incompetence or bias then all it does is pave the way for AI to be brought in to be make the final decisions in VAR. Maybe AI would then be used entirely instead of all match officials.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they are not always bread and butter, for example the Bads on was not bread and butter, therefore has a high chance of different interpretation.

I do agree with RTM though that as it was not a clear and obvious error it should not have been overturned. VAR should not he used to re referee a match, but sadly it too often 8s.

comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted about 3 hours ago
If there's going to be such glaring discrepancies between these kind of decisions and if highly trained match officials can't be trusted to get bread and butter decisions right due to subjectivity, incompetence or bias then all it does is pave the way for AI to be brought in to be make the final decisions in VAR. Maybe AI would then be used entirely instead of all match officials.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they are not always bread and butter, for example the Bads on was not bread and butter, therefore has a high chance of different interpretation.

I do agree with RTM though that as it was not a clear and obvious error it should not have been overturned. VAR should not he used to re referee a match, but sadly it too often 8s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Problem is the line between subjective refereeing and clear error is also interpretive.

Like, with Bads' 'foul' - I think most refs would give a foul there but that some wouldn't. It's soft but there's contact off the ball leading to a goal. Maybe 80 per cent would give a foul, maybe 20 per cent wouldn't.

Does that equate to being a subjective decision we can leave in the refs hands or a clear error?

comment by NPE - Bottom Half FC (U22712)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted about 3 hours ago
If there's going to be such glaring discrepancies between these kind of decisions and if highly trained match officials can't be trusted to get bread and butter decisions right due to subjectivity, incompetence or bias then all it does is pave the way for AI to be brought in to be make the final decisions in VAR. Maybe AI would then be used entirely instead of all match officials.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they are not always bread and butter, for example the Bads on was not bread and butter, therefore has a high chance of different interpretation.

I do agree with RTM though that as it was not a clear and obvious error it should not have been overturned. VAR should not he used to re referee a match, but sadly it too often 8s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Problem is the line between subjective refereeing and clear error is also interpretive.

Like, with Bads' 'foul' - I think most refs would give a foul there but that some wouldn't. It's soft but there's contact off the ball leading to a goal. Maybe 80 per cent would give a foul, maybe 20 per cent wouldn't.

Does that equate to being a subjective decision we can leave in the refs hands or a clear error?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me subjective. Especially when prior to Bads barge, the Villa defender pushed him and backed into him. If you consider the whole interaction rather than Bads barge in isolation, then it really was 6 from one and half a dozen from the other but which evervway the ref called it, I dont think it warranted an overturn. It did not pass the clear and obvious error test.

comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Bottom Half FC (U22712)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted about 3 hours ago
If there's going to be such glaring discrepancies between these kind of decisions and if highly trained match officials can't be trusted to get bread and butter decisions right due to subjectivity, incompetence or bias then all it does is pave the way for AI to be brought in to be make the final decisions in VAR. Maybe AI would then be used entirely instead of all match officials.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they are not always bread and butter, for example the Bads on was not bread and butter, therefore has a high chance of different interpretation.

I do agree with RTM though that as it was not a clear and obvious error it should not have been overturned. VAR should not he used to re referee a match, but sadly it too often 8s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Problem is the line between subjective refereeing and clear error is also interpretive.

Like, with Bads' 'foul' - I think most refs would give a foul there but that some wouldn't. It's soft but there's contact off the ball leading to a goal. Maybe 80 per cent would give a foul, maybe 20 per cent wouldn't.

Does that equate to being a subjective decision we can leave in the refs hands or a clear error?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me subjective. Especially when prior to Bads barge, the Villa defender pushed him and backed into him. If you consider the whole interaction rather than Bads barge in isolation, then it really was 6 from one and half a dozen from the other but which evervway the ref called it, I dont think it warranted an overturn. It did not pass the clear and obvious error test.




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Fair.

I would need to go back and check, but I recall when VAR was first introduced here it was used very sparingly, to the point people got more and more annoyed referee 'mistakes' were not being intervened with.

We weren't even sending refs to the monitors initially, we tried this bespoke approach where only really really big things were challenged - and it led to a lot of confusion with the ref just standing listening to his earpiece for 2-3 mins at a time with no screens or replays.

Then over the course of that season we adopted more and more the rest of Europe's model - much more VAR interventions, and a lot more running over to look at monitors.

comment by NPE - Bottom Half FC (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 15 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Bottom Half FC (U22712)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted about 3 hours ago
If there's going to be such glaring discrepancies between these kind of decisions and if highly trained match officials can't be trusted to get bread and butter decisions right due to subjectivity, incompetence or bias then all it does is pave the way for AI to be brought in to be make the final decisions in VAR. Maybe AI would then be used entirely instead of all match officials.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But they are not always bread and butter, for example the Bads on was not bread and butter, therefore has a high chance of different interpretation.

I do agree with RTM though that as it was not a clear and obvious error it should not have been overturned. VAR should not he used to re referee a match, but sadly it too often 8s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Problem is the line between subjective refereeing and clear error is also interpretive.

Like, with Bads' 'foul' - I think most refs would give a foul there but that some wouldn't. It's soft but there's contact off the ball leading to a goal. Maybe 80 per cent would give a foul, maybe 20 per cent wouldn't.

Does that equate to being a subjective decision we can leave in the refs hands or a clear error?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me subjective. Especially when prior to Bads barge, the Villa defender pushed him and backed into him. If you consider the whole interaction rather than Bads barge in isolation, then it really was 6 from one and half a dozen from the other but which evervway the ref called it, I dont think it warranted an overturn. It did not pass the clear and obvious error test.




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Fair.

I would need to go back and check, but I recall when VAR was first introduced here it was used very sparingly, to the point people got more and more annoyed referee 'mistakes' were not being intervened with.

We weren't even sending refs to the monitors initially, we tried this bespoke approach where only really really big things were challenged - and it led to a lot of confusion with the ref just standing listening to his earpiece for 2-3 mins at a time with no screens or replays.

Then over the course of that season we adopted more and more the rest of Europe's model - much more VAR interventions, and a lot more running over to look at monitors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that is exactly what has happened. I think it has gone in the wrong direction. Too much re refereeing rather than sticking to the clear and obvious.

Grealish handball, if I am honest, I still don't know if that was a penalty or not, so in my view it should not have been overturned, so it is frustrating when I also don't know for certain if Bads was a foul or not but it does get overturned.

I would need to go back and check, but I recall when VAR was first introduced here it was used very sparingly, to the point people got more and more annoyed referee 'mistakes' were not being intervened with.
------------------------------------------------------
Yep, that was always gunna be the problem with introducing something like VAR which I think a lot of fans overlooked - I did.

The funny thing is if no-one knew VAR existed, I think it would have a realistic chance of being used properly. It's the demand to get every single decision right, something Superb is representing incidentally, that's causing this eradication of common sense. I'm sure if you put 10 referees in a room & showed them that Bad's foul away from the pressure & demand to get this absolutely right - some would give it, some wouldn't - but within this discussion they'd conclude it wasn't "clear & obvious" simply by virtue of the fact they can't agree on it.

In truth VAR should only be in use for like 1-2 decisions every season. Those absolute slanderously wrong calls where all the officials might've just happened to be in positions where they were getting blocked or something. VAR has gotten rid of that, so it does conceptually work, it's just the public's awareness of the technologies existence has opened pandora's box.