So one CL win and you think its his speciality.
If Wenger has more money to play with he would have won the CL by now. Unfortunately our stadium has ruined us for a few years.
If Benitez had more money he would have won the prem by now. Unfortunately our former owners ruined us for a few years.
comment by redconn > (U5676)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Benitez had more money he would have won the prem by now
.................
SAF had less net and actual spend than Rafa in the same period Rafa was here, it didn't stop SAF from winning titles.
Wenger won three titles not even spending half of what Rafa spent, so stop taliking bollox.
If I had a moderate amount of money and wanted to win the CL I'd hire Benitez.
...............
Id hire Jose, he won it with no money, twice.
Jose only works for mega money clubs now
that ship has sailed
>>SAF had less net and actual spend than Rafa in the same period Rafa was here
so what? vastly different starting points
Manu have always had a more expensive squad and higher wage bill.
If we'd spent enough to match you then you could really see what the impact of money is.
Multiple 30mil players, 17 mil subs as far as the eye could see. United money.
comment by redconn > (U5676)
posted 31 seconds ago
Jose only works for mega money clubs now
that ship has sailed
................
Your owners have more money that Inter.
>>SAF had less net and actual spend than Rafa in the same period Rafa was here
so what? vastly different starting points
...........
Correct. Rafa started with a squad capable of winning the CL.
I've got work to do
nice chatting
Manu have always had a more expensive squad and higher wage bill.
............
Not in the seventies and eighties.
>>Not in the seventies and eighties.
that's why we won then, and you win now
money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money
I'm off
really this time
Multiple 30mil players
..................
I can only think of one. and he isn't as expensive as Carroll.
...................
17 mil subs as far as the eye could see.
.................
Another really daft statement.
Agger, Skrtel and Lucas have only increased in value due to age. Their original price was fair. As for Crouch, Bellamy and Sissoko, not really the players you want if your challenging for top honours are they?
--------------------
Only increased due to age? You sure about that. So talent and ability has nothing to do with it. Players values do not automatically increase with age. David Bently was bought for £16m atthe age of 24, three years later I doubt he is even worth £5m right now.
We were Top 4 with Sissoko, Bellamy and Crouch, challenging for top honours so I'm not sure what your point is. In fact Crouch and Sissoko won an FA Cup, and both Crouch and Bellamy were in a team that got to a Champions League final. So we can disregard your point there. I really wish peple knew what they were talking about.
-----------------------
Anelka, Pires, Henry, Vieira, Ljungberg, Clichy, Toure, Fabregas, RVP, Adebayor, Song, Vermaelan, Koscielny, Sagna, Lauren... All signed for under 10 million, and I could go on.
-------------------
He has done brilliantly in the transfer market, there's no argument there.
You miss out Reyes at £15m, Arshavin at £15m, Wiltord £13m, Hleb £11m, Gerinvho - £10m, Mertescker £10m.
Arsene 's value for money is getting worse as he gets older.
Arsene 's value for money is getting worse as he gets older.
...................
Same can be said of Kenny and SAF to be honest.
Yes, if a player develops as expected they will increase in cost with age up to their peak. You can't laud Rafa because they didn't flop.
Reyes was a star for a season, but he was a mummys boy so had to go home.
Arshavin 4 goals 1 game. Enough said.
Wiltord won the league at Old Trafford and was a valuable squad member. He also improved the team spirit, he was such a joker!
Hleb was excellent in midfield with Flamini, Cesc and Rosicky in the season we threw away the league. Why do you think Barca bought him? But only Wenger got the best out of him.
Gerinvho - only his first season, but I do expect him to be a flop.
Mertescker has been excellent this year. Stop listening to the sun. If it wasn't for Vermaelens goals I would consider merty over him.
Id hire Jose, he won it with no money, twice.
----------------------
When? So when he bought Milito, Motta, Muntari, Mancini, Quaresma, Sneijder, Eto'o, he must have done that with magic beans and tracksuits.
There is no value in the market any more. Plus every top team now has scouts all over the world. So obviously transfer prices will be higher now.
Jose got all of that for the price of Ibra
Yes, if a player develops as expected they will increase in cost with age up to their peak. You can't laud Rafa because they didn't flop.
--------------------
What are you talking about?! Develops as expected?? I can name you lots of players that didn't develop with age (as expected!) Do you think it just happens automatically or do you reckon it might just because of the training, tactics, influence of the manager etc.
Henry was a decent winger until he came to Arsenal, but Wenger helped him develop into a world class striker. I suppose that development was as expected and had nothing to do with Wenger?!
You're tying yourself up in knots here mate.
I don't read the Sun mate. Mertesacker is just above average. I rate Vermaelen and Koscielny but they weren't exaclty cheap for defenders.
comment by andre's samba scarf (U6253)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose got all of that for the price of Ibra
...........
It is a well know fact that there was no money at Inter. Ask a certain wee fat man.
Listen, a lot of players you get what you paid for. Such as Agger and Skrtel. You will have a hard time finding a non-Liverpool fan who thinks they were a bargain. They were good signings yes, but nothing that stands out from the crowd.
Ok. 70 odd caps for Germany by the age of 26 is average is it?
You will have a hard time finding a non-Liverpool fan who thinks they were a bargain. They were good signings yes, but nothing that stands out from the crowd.
Ok. 70 odd caps for Germany by the age of 26 is average is it?
--------------------
Just as you would have a hard time finding a non-Arsenal fan who thinks Koscielny and Mertesacker were a bargain. Good signing but hardly anything that stand out form a crowd. Each to their own I suppose.
Please don't give me the international caps argument. We can all find decent players who have lot of international caps.
Merty wasn't a bargain. I never claimed this. Koscielny has continued to prove his doubters wrong and is quickly becoming one of the best CBs around.
Agger and Skrtel cost 6 mil. Kos cost 8.4 mil. Hardly a big gap, yet you say we paid alot for our defenders whereas yours were bargains?
Oh really? Name some other players in their mid twenties with 70+ caps for one of the top 5 teams in the world.
Agger and Skrtel cost 6 mil. Kos cost 8.4 mil. Hardly a big gap, yet you say we paid alot for our defenders whereas yours were bargains?
------------------
I didn't say that. Stop changing the goalposts to suit your argument.
I started of by saying that I believe Rafa got good value for money, and I gave a number of players that I thought were good for the price we paid.
Skrtel and Agger cost £12m between them and are a solid CB partnership. For me that is value for money.
You were the one that started making comparions to Arsenal and Arsene's value for money.
Koscielny/Vermaelen (your preferred CB partnership, cost almost £19m. Skrtel and Agger who have played most of our games this season, cost £12m and have conceded less goals than you. So whats better value for money?
I can't find another 26 year old who had 70+ international caps for a top 5 team. But let me ask you this? If he is that good, then why is he behind Koscielny in the pecking order at Arsenal, he only has 1 cap for France. The number of international caps doesn't tell you everything.
'Koscielny/Vermaelen (your preferred CB partnership, cost almost £19m. Skrtel and Agger who have played most of our games this season, cost £12m and have conceded less goals than you. So whats better value for money?'
Because, like you say, your pairing played most of the season. We have 2 more clean sheets than you guys because when we have verm/kos we very often don't concede. Also half of the season we didn't have full backs and our unprepared start to the season contributed heavily to our goals conceded. (8-2, 4-3 losses)
Kos is ahead of Per because he is amazing
Only a Wenger signing could displace a seasoned international.
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Why does Rafa get stick for his signings
Page 4 of 5
posted on 26/4/12
So one CL win and you think its his speciality.
If Wenger has more money to play with he would have won the CL by now. Unfortunately our stadium has ruined us for a few years.
posted on 26/4/12
*had
posted on 26/4/12
If Benitez had more money he would have won the prem by now. Unfortunately our former owners ruined us for a few years.
posted on 26/4/12
comment by redconn > (U5676)
posted 2 minutes ago
If Benitez had more money he would have won the prem by now
.................
SAF had less net and actual spend than Rafa in the same period Rafa was here, it didn't stop SAF from winning titles.
Wenger won three titles not even spending half of what Rafa spent, so stop taliking bollox.
posted on 26/4/12
If I had a moderate amount of money and wanted to win the CL I'd hire Benitez.
...............
Id hire Jose, he won it with no money, twice.
posted on 26/4/12
Jose only works for mega money clubs now
that ship has sailed
>>SAF had less net and actual spend than Rafa in the same period Rafa was here
so what? vastly different starting points
Manu have always had a more expensive squad and higher wage bill.
If we'd spent enough to match you then you could really see what the impact of money is.
Multiple 30mil players, 17 mil subs as far as the eye could see. United money.
posted on 26/4/12
comment by redconn > (U5676)
posted 31 seconds ago
Jose only works for mega money clubs now
that ship has sailed
................
Your owners have more money that Inter.
posted on 26/4/12
>>SAF had less net and actual spend than Rafa in the same period Rafa was here
so what? vastly different starting points
...........
Correct. Rafa started with a squad capable of winning the CL.
posted on 26/4/12
I've got work to do
nice chatting
posted on 26/4/12
Manu have always had a more expensive squad and higher wage bill.
............
Not in the seventies and eighties.
posted on 26/4/12
>>Not in the seventies and eighties.
that's why we won then, and you win now
money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money
I'm off
really this time
posted on 26/4/12
Multiple 30mil players
..................
I can only think of one. and he isn't as expensive as Carroll.
...................
17 mil subs as far as the eye could see.
.................
Another really daft statement.
posted on 26/4/12
Agger, Skrtel and Lucas have only increased in value due to age. Their original price was fair. As for Crouch, Bellamy and Sissoko, not really the players you want if your challenging for top honours are they?
--------------------
Only increased due to age? You sure about that. So talent and ability has nothing to do with it. Players values do not automatically increase with age. David Bently was bought for £16m atthe age of 24, three years later I doubt he is even worth £5m right now.
We were Top 4 with Sissoko, Bellamy and Crouch, challenging for top honours so I'm not sure what your point is. In fact Crouch and Sissoko won an FA Cup, and both Crouch and Bellamy were in a team that got to a Champions League final. So we can disregard your point there. I really wish peple knew what they were talking about.
-----------------------
Anelka, Pires, Henry, Vieira, Ljungberg, Clichy, Toure, Fabregas, RVP, Adebayor, Song, Vermaelan, Koscielny, Sagna, Lauren... All signed for under 10 million, and I could go on.
-------------------
He has done brilliantly in the transfer market, there's no argument there.
You miss out Reyes at £15m, Arshavin at £15m, Wiltord £13m, Hleb £11m, Gerinvho - £10m, Mertescker £10m.
Arsene 's value for money is getting worse as he gets older.
posted on 26/4/12
Arsene 's value for money is getting worse as he gets older.
...................
Same can be said of Kenny and SAF to be honest.
posted on 26/4/12
Yes, if a player develops as expected they will increase in cost with age up to their peak. You can't laud Rafa because they didn't flop.
Reyes was a star for a season, but he was a mummys boy so had to go home.
Arshavin 4 goals 1 game. Enough said.
Wiltord won the league at Old Trafford and was a valuable squad member. He also improved the team spirit, he was such a joker!
Hleb was excellent in midfield with Flamini, Cesc and Rosicky in the season we threw away the league. Why do you think Barca bought him? But only Wenger got the best out of him.
Gerinvho - only his first season, but I do expect him to be a flop.
Mertescker has been excellent this year. Stop listening to the sun. If it wasn't for Vermaelens goals I would consider merty over him.
posted on 26/4/12
Id hire Jose, he won it with no money, twice.
----------------------
When? So when he bought Milito, Motta, Muntari, Mancini, Quaresma, Sneijder, Eto'o, he must have done that with magic beans and tracksuits.
posted on 26/4/12
There is no value in the market any more. Plus every top team now has scouts all over the world. So obviously transfer prices will be higher now.
posted on 26/4/12
Jose got all of that for the price of Ibra
posted on 26/4/12
Yes, if a player develops as expected they will increase in cost with age up to their peak. You can't laud Rafa because they didn't flop.
--------------------
What are you talking about?! Develops as expected?? I can name you lots of players that didn't develop with age (as expected!) Do you think it just happens automatically or do you reckon it might just because of the training, tactics, influence of the manager etc.
Henry was a decent winger until he came to Arsenal, but Wenger helped him develop into a world class striker. I suppose that development was as expected and had nothing to do with Wenger?!
You're tying yourself up in knots here mate.
I don't read the Sun mate. Mertesacker is just above average. I rate Vermaelen and Koscielny but they weren't exaclty cheap for defenders.
posted on 26/4/12
comment by andre's samba scarf (U6253)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose got all of that for the price of Ibra
...........
It is a well know fact that there was no money at Inter. Ask a certain wee fat man.
posted on 26/4/12
Listen, a lot of players you get what you paid for. Such as Agger and Skrtel. You will have a hard time finding a non-Liverpool fan who thinks they were a bargain. They were good signings yes, but nothing that stands out from the crowd.
Ok. 70 odd caps for Germany by the age of 26 is average is it?
posted on 26/4/12
You will have a hard time finding a non-Liverpool fan who thinks they were a bargain. They were good signings yes, but nothing that stands out from the crowd.
Ok. 70 odd caps for Germany by the age of 26 is average is it?
--------------------
Just as you would have a hard time finding a non-Arsenal fan who thinks Koscielny and Mertesacker were a bargain. Good signing but hardly anything that stand out form a crowd. Each to their own I suppose.
Please don't give me the international caps argument. We can all find decent players who have lot of international caps.
posted on 26/4/12
Merty wasn't a bargain. I never claimed this. Koscielny has continued to prove his doubters wrong and is quickly becoming one of the best CBs around.
Agger and Skrtel cost 6 mil. Kos cost 8.4 mil. Hardly a big gap, yet you say we paid alot for our defenders whereas yours were bargains?
Oh really? Name some other players in their mid twenties with 70+ caps for one of the top 5 teams in the world.
posted on 26/4/12
Agger and Skrtel cost 6 mil. Kos cost 8.4 mil. Hardly a big gap, yet you say we paid alot for our defenders whereas yours were bargains?
------------------
I didn't say that. Stop changing the goalposts to suit your argument.
I started of by saying that I believe Rafa got good value for money, and I gave a number of players that I thought were good for the price we paid.
Skrtel and Agger cost £12m between them and are a solid CB partnership. For me that is value for money.
You were the one that started making comparions to Arsenal and Arsene's value for money.
Koscielny/Vermaelen (your preferred CB partnership, cost almost £19m. Skrtel and Agger who have played most of our games this season, cost £12m and have conceded less goals than you. So whats better value for money?
I can't find another 26 year old who had 70+ international caps for a top 5 team. But let me ask you this? If he is that good, then why is he behind Koscielny in the pecking order at Arsenal, he only has 1 cap for France. The number of international caps doesn't tell you everything.
posted on 27/4/12
'Koscielny/Vermaelen (your preferred CB partnership, cost almost £19m. Skrtel and Agger who have played most of our games this season, cost £12m and have conceded less goals than you. So whats better value for money?'
Because, like you say, your pairing played most of the season. We have 2 more clean sheets than you guys because when we have verm/kos we very often don't concede. Also half of the season we didn't have full backs and our unprepared start to the season contributed heavily to our goals conceded. (8-2, 4-3 losses)
Kos is ahead of Per because he is amazing
Only a Wenger signing could displace a seasoned international.
Page 4 of 5