Of course I doubt if Hamilton was involved, but the fact is that this has now happened twice and only twice and both times with the same driver, which means that either someone is a complete idiot at McLaren, or they knew exactly what they were doing.
I find it funny you're allowed to stop on track after a race but not after qualifying, surely it should be the other way round
I dont think you can blame the Spanish as there are no spanish involved in the decision, and there are no marketing people involved in the decision. However I can't for the life of me work out the penalty.
Has it been explained at all why Q1 and Q2 was ignored totally as Hamilton complied with the rules during those phases? OK he's broken the rules in Q3 so shouldnt the worst case be 10th? Even if he hadnt left the pits he would have got 10th and fresh tyres.
As for the car on track rule, I dont get it IF you can do the exact same thing in the race. On numerous occasions teams stop their cars quickly after the race and before parc ferme to be to provide a fuel sample (Ive even seen cars stop just before the end of the race out of fuel and still get away with a position because of the winners distance from the rest meaning the race finished earlier enough to save the stopper), SO why is this OK in the race and NOT quali?
Hamilton will have a job getting a drive in another decent team I don't think the big teams would want him
Hamilton will have a job getting a drive in another decent team I don't think the big teams would want him
------------------
Teams in Twitmarsh's love child's head? Teams on a playstation console or teams controlled by the Klu klux clan!
I don't think Lewis would want to race for any of them!
To answer a few queries.
1/ The 1st time this happened was at Canada, where VMM deliberately underfuelled Hamilton to get him on pole. As this was deemed to be against the "spirit" of the regs, they were tightened up.
2/ Cars stopping after the race would not cause a problem, a car stopping on track during quali could cause a red flag, thus ruining someones hot lap, ie: Schumadher in Monaco 2006.
3/ The car was effectively under weight, or contained insufficient fuel to be tested, so the stewards would have been able to exclude him from the race if they had wanted, so starting at the back is not the worse that could have happened.
4/ "I dont think you can blame the Spanish as there are no spanish involved in the decision" the stewards for each race are taken from the local motorsport federation, Spain, so three of the 4 stewards are Spanish.
Basically, VMM broke the rules (probably not intentionally), and unfortunately, as part of the team, Hamilton has to take the punishment.
The spanish are the spanish, that is who they are! The main culprit here is Twitmarsh end of story!
Never have I seen or heard such an incompetent person as Twitmarsh, so defended by the media and general population, accept in countries where its a dictatorship! Is Britain heading in that direction, as there are so many blind sheep out there!
Spanish GP Race Stewards Biographies
GERD ENNSER
MEMBER OF THE DMSB’s EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE FOR AUTOMOBILE SPORT, FORMULA ONE AND DTM STEWARD
TO M KRISTENSEN
EIGHT TIMES LE MANS WINNER, GERMAN F3 CHAMPION (1991), JAPANESE F3 CHAMPION (1993) ALMS CHAMPION (2001)
RADOVAN NOVAK
SEC. GENERAL OF THE ACCR (AUTOCLUB OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC), WORLD MOTOR SPORT COUNCIL MEMBER
sorry about the caps - it's a cut and paste from
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/esp-stewards.pdf
@Malcolm - Thanks for the response but dont think you answered my questions.
1. Where a car stops affects red flags, not the fact they've stopped. If a car stopped during quali and pulled into a safe zone then this wouldnt lead to a red flag. Even car crashes or incidents like Sennas this quali dont ALWAYS lead to a red flag in quali (i know in Senna's exact case this time the session had just ended). Plus I referred to incidents where a car has stopped before reaching the finishing line and pulled to one side e.g. Mansell some years back, but even though they were first or second at the time they still got e.g. 6th because of when the race officially ended. Maybe this is not allowed now IF the rules have been changed to deal with the race as well, but if they havent and I've not heard anything about this race wise then I still dont understand why it counts in quali and not the race when the incident didnt result in a red flag (plus cars dont always get penalised for causing a red flag unless deliberate so not sure about the pt anyway)?
2. On your point about the Spanish that have made this decision, where is your source for that please? I havent found anything that says Spanish guys made the decision although I understand 'some' stewards at every race come from the home federation. From my understanding of what goes on the race director (presumably Charlie Whiting) refers and incident to some stewards and they then make a decision and if necessary meet with the team theyve decided against. I've searched for who was involved in the Hamilton decision, rather than just assume it was made by Spaniards (3 of 4 decision makers) and potentially in a racist or pro Alonso way, and can't find the names. However I did find the stewards involved in Hulkenberg's pit lane speeding decision in Q3, and only one of the 4 was Spanish, and she is a very young female graduate of the FIA stewarding program, so hardly likely to be the dominant person involved. Anyway the stewards deciding on this Q3 incident were:
Gerd Ennser Radovan Novak
Tom Kristensen Silvia Bellot
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/esp-document-22.pdf
Are you saying a different set of 4 stewards made the decision on Hamilton and if so have you a link to who they are?
Having said all that out of pure intrigue, of course Hamilton has to take the punishment in F1, that's how it works, but doesnt make it right. Much like the Spa decision that went against him.
Personally I think Hamilton should get out of VMM as quick as possible. They have gone from one of the best run teams to a total joke in the recent years, and 99% of the time it affects their best and most exciting driver, even though probs have also happened to Button on occasion.
comment by WTCBU (U13662)
posted 19 minutes ago
Spanish GP Race Stewards Biographies
GERD ENNSER
MEMBER OF THE DMSB’s EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE FOR AUTOMOBILE SPORT, FORMULA ONE AND DTM STEWARD
TO M KRISTENSEN
EIGHT TIMES LE MANS WINNER, GERMAN F3 CHAMPION (1991), JAPANESE F3 CHAMPION (1993) ALMS CHAMPION (2001)
RADOVAN NOVAK
SEC. GENERAL OF THE ACCR (AUTOCLUB OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC), WORLD MOTOR SPORT COUNCIL MEMBER
sorry about the caps - it's a cut and paste from
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/esp-stewards.pdf
_________
Ah thanks man, you did it the same time as I was writing and linking to something similar. Don't look too Spanish do they
comment by giggs love child (U4694)
posted 3 hours, 35 minutes ago
Hamilton will have a job getting a drive in another decent team I don't think the big teams would want him
==============
Hamilton makes you look stupid again. Wouldn't it be better be be quiet and not conitnue to look stupid?
You both forgot Silvia Bellot
No I didnt. I mentioned her in my post including her background
ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
"Hamilton makes you look stupid again."
How? Tell me after you have looked in a dictionary
giggs love child (U4694)
You are not exactly intelligent are you?
You make a nuisance of yourself on this section because you personally dislike a driver.
You have never posted anything other than your personal dislike for Hamilton.
Actually, you have never posted anything that has not made you look stupid.
Keep up the posts so that we can laugh at you but you do not have the wit to twig our mockery.
comment by giggs love child (U4694)
posted 9 minutes ago
ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
"Hamilton makes you look stupid again."
How? Tell me after you have looked in a dictionary
================
I'm pleased you know what a dictionary is dear boy.
You made a comment implying nobody wants him and Mclaren are pleading with him to sign a new contract. That in itself shows you up.
The way Hamilton has driven this season, bringing the car home even in the worst position possible in the points demonstrates just how phenomenal a race driver he has become.
Keep crying and he'll keep raking in the millions whilst you cry yourself to sleep
Sign in if you want to comment
Racism or Corruption?
Page 4 of 4
posted on 13/5/12
Of course I doubt if Hamilton was involved, but the fact is that this has now happened twice and only twice and both times with the same driver, which means that either someone is a complete idiot at McLaren, or they knew exactly what they were doing.
posted on 13/5/12
I find it funny you're allowed to stop on track after a race but not after qualifying, surely it should be the other way round
posted on 13/5/12
I dont think you can blame the Spanish as there are no spanish involved in the decision, and there are no marketing people involved in the decision. However I can't for the life of me work out the penalty.
Has it been explained at all why Q1 and Q2 was ignored totally as Hamilton complied with the rules during those phases? OK he's broken the rules in Q3 so shouldnt the worst case be 10th? Even if he hadnt left the pits he would have got 10th and fresh tyres.
As for the car on track rule, I dont get it IF you can do the exact same thing in the race. On numerous occasions teams stop their cars quickly after the race and before parc ferme to be to provide a fuel sample (Ive even seen cars stop just before the end of the race out of fuel and still get away with a position because of the winners distance from the rest meaning the race finished earlier enough to save the stopper), SO why is this OK in the race and NOT quali?
posted on 13/5/12
Hamilton will have a job getting a drive in another decent team I don't think the big teams would want him
posted on 13/5/12
Hamilton will have a job getting a drive in another decent team I don't think the big teams would want him
------------------
Teams in Twitmarsh's love child's head? Teams on a playstation console or teams controlled by the Klu klux clan!
I don't think Lewis would want to race for any of them!
posted on 13/5/12
To answer a few queries.
1/ The 1st time this happened was at Canada, where VMM deliberately underfuelled Hamilton to get him on pole. As this was deemed to be against the "spirit" of the regs, they were tightened up.
2/ Cars stopping after the race would not cause a problem, a car stopping on track during quali could cause a red flag, thus ruining someones hot lap, ie: Schumadher in Monaco 2006.
3/ The car was effectively under weight, or contained insufficient fuel to be tested, so the stewards would have been able to exclude him from the race if they had wanted, so starting at the back is not the worse that could have happened.
4/ "I dont think you can blame the Spanish as there are no spanish involved in the decision" the stewards for each race are taken from the local motorsport federation, Spain, so three of the 4 stewards are Spanish.
Basically, VMM broke the rules (probably not intentionally), and unfortunately, as part of the team, Hamilton has to take the punishment.
posted on 13/5/12
The spanish are the spanish, that is who they are! The main culprit here is Twitmarsh end of story!
posted on 13/5/12
Never have I seen or heard such an incompetent person as Twitmarsh, so defended by the media and general population, accept in countries where its a dictatorship! Is Britain heading in that direction, as there are so many blind sheep out there!
posted on 13/5/12
Spanish GP Race Stewards Biographies
GERD ENNSER
MEMBER OF THE DMSB’s EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE FOR AUTOMOBILE SPORT, FORMULA ONE AND DTM STEWARD
TO M KRISTENSEN
EIGHT TIMES LE MANS WINNER, GERMAN F3 CHAMPION (1991), JAPANESE F3 CHAMPION (1993) ALMS CHAMPION (2001)
RADOVAN NOVAK
SEC. GENERAL OF THE ACCR (AUTOCLUB OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC), WORLD MOTOR SPORT COUNCIL MEMBER
sorry about the caps - it's a cut and paste from
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/esp-stewards.pdf
posted on 13/5/12
@Malcolm - Thanks for the response but dont think you answered my questions.
1. Where a car stops affects red flags, not the fact they've stopped. If a car stopped during quali and pulled into a safe zone then this wouldnt lead to a red flag. Even car crashes or incidents like Sennas this quali dont ALWAYS lead to a red flag in quali (i know in Senna's exact case this time the session had just ended). Plus I referred to incidents where a car has stopped before reaching the finishing line and pulled to one side e.g. Mansell some years back, but even though they were first or second at the time they still got e.g. 6th because of when the race officially ended. Maybe this is not allowed now IF the rules have been changed to deal with the race as well, but if they havent and I've not heard anything about this race wise then I still dont understand why it counts in quali and not the race when the incident didnt result in a red flag (plus cars dont always get penalised for causing a red flag unless deliberate so not sure about the pt anyway)?
2. On your point about the Spanish that have made this decision, where is your source for that please? I havent found anything that says Spanish guys made the decision although I understand 'some' stewards at every race come from the home federation. From my understanding of what goes on the race director (presumably Charlie Whiting) refers and incident to some stewards and they then make a decision and if necessary meet with the team theyve decided against. I've searched for who was involved in the Hamilton decision, rather than just assume it was made by Spaniards (3 of 4 decision makers) and potentially in a racist or pro Alonso way, and can't find the names. However I did find the stewards involved in Hulkenberg's pit lane speeding decision in Q3, and only one of the 4 was Spanish, and she is a very young female graduate of the FIA stewarding program, so hardly likely to be the dominant person involved. Anyway the stewards deciding on this Q3 incident were:
Gerd Ennser Radovan Novak
Tom Kristensen Silvia Bellot
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/esp-document-22.pdf
Are you saying a different set of 4 stewards made the decision on Hamilton and if so have you a link to who they are?
Having said all that out of pure intrigue, of course Hamilton has to take the punishment in F1, that's how it works, but doesnt make it right. Much like the Spa decision that went against him.
Personally I think Hamilton should get out of VMM as quick as possible. They have gone from one of the best run teams to a total joke in the recent years, and 99% of the time it affects their best and most exciting driver, even though probs have also happened to Button on occasion.
posted on 13/5/12
comment by WTCBU (U13662)
posted 19 minutes ago
Spanish GP Race Stewards Biographies
GERD ENNSER
MEMBER OF THE DMSB’s EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE FOR AUTOMOBILE SPORT, FORMULA ONE AND DTM STEWARD
TO M KRISTENSEN
EIGHT TIMES LE MANS WINNER, GERMAN F3 CHAMPION (1991), JAPANESE F3 CHAMPION (1993) ALMS CHAMPION (2001)
RADOVAN NOVAK
SEC. GENERAL OF THE ACCR (AUTOCLUB OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC), WORLD MOTOR SPORT COUNCIL MEMBER
sorry about the caps - it's a cut and paste from
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/esp-stewards.pdf
_________
Ah thanks man, you did it the same time as I was writing and linking to something similar. Don't look too Spanish do they
posted on 13/5/12
comment by giggs love child (U4694)
posted 3 hours, 35 minutes ago
Hamilton will have a job getting a drive in another decent team I don't think the big teams would want him
==============
Hamilton makes you look stupid again. Wouldn't it be better be be quiet and not conitnue to look stupid?
posted on 13/5/12
You both forgot Silvia Bellot
posted on 13/5/12
No I didnt. I mentioned her in my post including her background
posted on 13/5/12
ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
"Hamilton makes you look stupid again."
How? Tell me after you have looked in a dictionary
posted on 13/5/12
giggs love child (U4694)
You are not exactly intelligent are you?
You make a nuisance of yourself on this section because you personally dislike a driver.
You have never posted anything other than your personal dislike for Hamilton.
Actually, you have never posted anything that has not made you look stupid.
Keep up the posts so that we can laugh at you but you do not have the wit to twig our mockery.
posted on 13/5/12
comment by giggs love child (U4694)
posted 9 minutes ago
ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
"Hamilton makes you look stupid again."
How? Tell me after you have looked in a dictionary
================
I'm pleased you know what a dictionary is dear boy.
You made a comment implying nobody wants him and Mclaren are pleading with him to sign a new contract. That in itself shows you up.
The way Hamilton has driven this season, bringing the car home even in the worst position possible in the points demonstrates just how phenomenal a race driver he has become.
Keep crying and he'll keep raking in the millions whilst you cry yourself to sleep
Page 4 of 4