comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 4 hours, 25 minutes ago
Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
posted 1 minute ago
They are getting paid to sit at home most days.
I would have all long term unemployed earning the benefits I pay for.
---
This kind of narrow minded attitude helps no-one. Also, because society has been kinder to you, it means it does NOT owe you back. Open your eyes and mind.
=====
So you are happy to see the long term unemployed abduction career benefit claimants sat at home while others work hard. A large portion of society who do work would like the lifestyle of some of these claimants.
Society has not given me a helping hand, hard work and sacrifices for.me and my family mean I am a little more comfortable.......but all on the back of hard work!
Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
I'm sure you are a good upstanding citizen etc. the point I am making is that we are all different, all have different circumstances, opportunities and abilities and it is extremely dangerous to pass judgements on others based on their circumstances.
I tire of seeing career claimants speed my money in Brighthouse on a new TV and Laptop while not working..
Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
Seeing these people can be frustrating, but poor etiquette, selfishness and other negative traits can be attributed to people from the entire social spectrum
Selfish?
Me or the people who live in the belief that they are.owed something for nothing?
That's got nothing to do with his point.
His point was about the long term feckless, who've made benefits their 'career choice' & have a standard of living that includes plasma TV's, laptops & mobiles - all of which are being funded by the mythical "State", which is all of us who are contributing to the system & not taking from it.
It's these scrounging wasters that need to be made to realise that the benefits system is a 'safety net' & not a lifestyle choice. Unfortunately the only way of prizing their lazy rear ends off the couch & into work, will be by making the alternative to getting a job less palletable than it currently is...............& working for benefits, is a good starting point.
Tobe.
My fear is we will have generations who believe benefits is a career choice and politicians worried about loosing the jobless vote!
Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
I'm just saying that people from all walks of life have negative attributes, wasn't insinuating that you were selfish. These misunderstandings have kinda sidetracked the real point though
The point I made is that people who are unemployed and able to work should be young something to earn the benefits
My fear is we will have generations who believe benefits is a career choice and politicians worried about loosing the jobless vote!
-----------------------------------------------------------
It's already happened mate, as that's the only possible explanation for the last Govt allowing over 2 million to remain sat on their rse, during an economic period that saw us having to import labour from all over Eastern Europe & beyond. That was the prime time to tackle this issue, as we should have had virtually no unemployment during that period.
I agree Tobe. but now with local government cutbacks this is a gap the long term unemployed can help fill.
Hospital porters, OAP warden, street cleaners.
Once they are working with experience they can move into full time paid work.
I wish I was fully paid. I've been working since I left school and I'm still not fully paid
His point was about the long term feckless, who've made benefits their 'career choice' & have a standard of living that includes plasma TV's, laptops & mobiles - all of which are being funded by the mythical "State", which is all of us who are contributing to the system & not taking from it.
It's these scrounging wasters that need to be made to realise that the benefits system is a 'safety net' & not a lifestyle choice. Unfortunately the only way of prizing their lazy rear ends off the couch & into work, will be by making the alternative to getting a job less palletable than it currently is...............& working for benefits, is a good starting point.
Not often i agree with what you say TB, but you are absolutely bang on with that.
I seriously do not understand why people cannot be made to do "volunteer" work if they are claiming benefits.
surely the government could utilise this "workforce" for the benefit of the UK. Those you genuinely cannot work will be fine, but if the others make the "life choice" to take benefits, then they should work the appropriate number of hours to receive them benefits. Heck, it should even be seen as a positive when completing CV's for full time work.
For too long the work shy have bled this country dry. There are genuine people who want to work and HAVE to claim benefits, but there are a good number who have no intention of getting jobs and are more than happy to pick up their benefits and head down to wetherspoons on a morning. time the government addressed that instead of taxing the working folk to the hilt!
Lucas, we finally also agree on something
I suspect that if I were born into a family with low intelligence, few work opportunities, few morales etc. then I would probably fleece the society that has let me down for everything I could. We cannot choose how we are born and raised, and depending on what happens in those first few years of our lives, we cannot guarantee that we wil be able to learn or gain the skills required in order to make something of ourselves.
Let's face it, I really don't think anyone actually wants to just sit on their ar$e all day, I have worked with such people and under all the hardness and feckless appearances, most of these people are really quite depressed.
I think we have to realise, that as a society, we are all responsible, some of us are lucky enough to have the tools to make it, some of us aren't. It's all relative to what we know and I think the sooner we stop passing judgements so quickly, the sooner we can improve on things
Damn you OP for starting a political thread, I just can't help myself.
I am sorry but using your families social standing as an excuse not to contribute is not a valid excuse or what the welfare state was devised for.
There are jobs availiable for all levels of ability and are often filled by highly skilled immigrant workers!
No your families social standing is not an excuse (although it doesn't help) but there are so many families where, quite simply, as far as society is concerned, they haven't got a clue and the kids have no chance if they have not been given the moral groundings etc. from a young age.
It's quite difficult to judge without being in the situation I think. I live close to one of the worst estates in the UK and it really is terrible, you can see no way out. It is a complex problem that I don't think is at all helped by the general feeling of dismissal they are given. Sure most of these people are not very socially able and you wouldn't ever really want to spend too much time with them, but they are still humans, all with their own stories. I think it is easy to lose sight of that, especially with the vilification they get in the press.
Maybe if htey made a concious effort to be shown in a better light the rest of society would be more supportive.
Taking a pram so you can get three crates of larger on Giro day is not the way forward.
I agree with those sentiments, but I think a little less damning would go a long way to helping them integrate, which would be better for all of us
How will my kind words change an ingrained social problem
I seriously do not understand why people cannot be made to do "volunteer" work if they are claiming benefits.
---------------------------------------
Because it's apparently slavery and "nazism".
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 13 hours, 7 minutes ago
I suspect that if I were born into a family with low intelligence" Blah blah blah.
What a load of nonsense.
In other countries, often the poorest people are the most clever in schools and if paying for school is achieved, they do very well in life. Here, why should they? What's the incentive? They consider themselves poor but then they look around themselves and people doing fine without a job, without an education. So why should they work hard in school?
Despite being told when I was younger that I had to knuckle down in school as it will affect the rest of my life, I never listened to such advice, however, if people thought that they would have to work anyhow, for their benefits, I'm sure there'd be a bigger push on getting an education and it doesn't matter how educated your family are! It's simple laziness and a sense of entitlement. It disgusts me to watch these people who don't want to work, rake in the cash, using their babies as cash machines and instead of being thankful, they have this massive sense of entitlement and demand more!
People were given the chance to earn a qualification, to add to their CV and to be in with a chance of a job after this scheme and equipment and a license paid for all for free and people say that is slavery? It's these people who are wrong with this country.
Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
posted 15 minutes ago
How will my kind words change an ingrained social problem
---
To be honest, right here and now, not a lot. But an attitude shift would be a start
TOOR
I have explained the slavery comments 5 times now and you still say the same thing. Why would I expect you to understand any of the rest of what I have written?
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 1 minute ago
TOOR
I have explained the slavery comments 5 times now and you still say the same thing. Why would I expect you to understand any of the rest of what I have written?
-----------------------------------------
You can explain it until the cows come home, it's still ridiculous.
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posted on 5/6/12
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 4 hours, 25 minutes ago
Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
posted 1 minute ago
They are getting paid to sit at home most days.
I would have all long term unemployed earning the benefits I pay for.
---
This kind of narrow minded attitude helps no-one. Also, because society has been kinder to you, it means it does NOT owe you back. Open your eyes and mind.
=====
So you are happy to see the long term unemployed abduction career benefit claimants sat at home while others work hard. A large portion of society who do work would like the lifestyle of some of these claimants.
Society has not given me a helping hand, hard work and sacrifices for.me and my family mean I am a little more comfortable.......but all on the back of hard work!
posted on 5/6/12
Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
I'm sure you are a good upstanding citizen etc. the point I am making is that we are all different, all have different circumstances, opportunities and abilities and it is extremely dangerous to pass judgements on others based on their circumstances.
posted on 5/6/12
I tire of seeing career claimants speed my money in Brighthouse on a new TV and Laptop while not working..
posted on 5/6/12
Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
Seeing these people can be frustrating, but poor etiquette, selfishness and other negative traits can be attributed to people from the entire social spectrum
posted on 5/6/12
Selfish?
Me or the people who live in the belief that they are.owed something for nothing?
posted on 5/6/12
That's got nothing to do with his point.
His point was about the long term feckless, who've made benefits their 'career choice' & have a standard of living that includes plasma TV's, laptops & mobiles - all of which are being funded by the mythical "State", which is all of us who are contributing to the system & not taking from it.
It's these scrounging wasters that need to be made to realise that the benefits system is a 'safety net' & not a lifestyle choice. Unfortunately the only way of prizing their lazy rear ends off the couch & into work, will be by making the alternative to getting a job less palletable than it currently is...............& working for benefits, is a good starting point.
posted on 5/6/12
Tobe.
My fear is we will have generations who believe benefits is a career choice and politicians worried about loosing the jobless vote!
posted on 5/6/12
Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
I'm just saying that people from all walks of life have negative attributes, wasn't insinuating that you were selfish. These misunderstandings have kinda sidetracked the real point though
posted on 5/6/12
The point I made is that people who are unemployed and able to work should be young something to earn the benefits
posted on 5/6/12
My fear is we will have generations who believe benefits is a career choice and politicians worried about loosing the jobless vote!
-----------------------------------------------------------
It's already happened mate, as that's the only possible explanation for the last Govt allowing over 2 million to remain sat on their rse, during an economic period that saw us having to import labour from all over Eastern Europe & beyond. That was the prime time to tackle this issue, as we should have had virtually no unemployment during that period.
posted on 5/6/12
I agree Tobe. but now with local government cutbacks this is a gap the long term unemployed can help fill.
Hospital porters, OAP warden, street cleaners.
Once they are working with experience they can move into full time paid work.
posted on 5/6/12
I wish I was fully paid. I've been working since I left school and I'm still not fully paid
posted on 5/6/12
His point was about the long term feckless, who've made benefits their 'career choice' & have a standard of living that includes plasma TV's, laptops & mobiles - all of which are being funded by the mythical "State", which is all of us who are contributing to the system & not taking from it.
It's these scrounging wasters that need to be made to realise that the benefits system is a 'safety net' & not a lifestyle choice. Unfortunately the only way of prizing their lazy rear ends off the couch & into work, will be by making the alternative to getting a job less palletable than it currently is...............& working for benefits, is a good starting point.
Not often i agree with what you say TB, but you are absolutely bang on with that.
I seriously do not understand why people cannot be made to do "volunteer" work if they are claiming benefits.
surely the government could utilise this "workforce" for the benefit of the UK. Those you genuinely cannot work will be fine, but if the others make the "life choice" to take benefits, then they should work the appropriate number of hours to receive them benefits. Heck, it should even be seen as a positive when completing CV's for full time work.
For too long the work shy have bled this country dry. There are genuine people who want to work and HAVE to claim benefits, but there are a good number who have no intention of getting jobs and are more than happy to pick up their benefits and head down to wetherspoons on a morning. time the government addressed that instead of taxing the working folk to the hilt!
posted on 5/6/12
Lucas, we finally also agree on something
posted on 5/6/12
I suspect that if I were born into a family with low intelligence, few work opportunities, few morales etc. then I would probably fleece the society that has let me down for everything I could. We cannot choose how we are born and raised, and depending on what happens in those first few years of our lives, we cannot guarantee that we wil be able to learn or gain the skills required in order to make something of ourselves.
Let's face it, I really don't think anyone actually wants to just sit on their ar$e all day, I have worked with such people and under all the hardness and feckless appearances, most of these people are really quite depressed.
I think we have to realise, that as a society, we are all responsible, some of us are lucky enough to have the tools to make it, some of us aren't. It's all relative to what we know and I think the sooner we stop passing judgements so quickly, the sooner we can improve on things
Damn you OP for starting a political thread, I just can't help myself.
posted on 5/6/12
I am sorry but using your families social standing as an excuse not to contribute is not a valid excuse or what the welfare state was devised for.
There are jobs availiable for all levels of ability and are often filled by highly skilled immigrant workers!
posted on 5/6/12
No your families social standing is not an excuse (although it doesn't help) but there are so many families where, quite simply, as far as society is concerned, they haven't got a clue and the kids have no chance if they have not been given the moral groundings etc. from a young age.
It's quite difficult to judge without being in the situation I think. I live close to one of the worst estates in the UK and it really is terrible, you can see no way out. It is a complex problem that I don't think is at all helped by the general feeling of dismissal they are given. Sure most of these people are not very socially able and you wouldn't ever really want to spend too much time with them, but they are still humans, all with their own stories. I think it is easy to lose sight of that, especially with the vilification they get in the press.
posted on 5/6/12
Maybe if htey made a concious effort to be shown in a better light the rest of society would be more supportive.
Taking a pram so you can get three crates of larger on Giro day is not the way forward.
posted on 6/6/12
I agree with those sentiments, but I think a little less damning would go a long way to helping them integrate, which would be better for all of us
posted on 6/6/12
How will my kind words change an ingrained social problem
posted on 6/6/12
I seriously do not understand why people cannot be made to do "volunteer" work if they are claiming benefits.
---------------------------------------
Because it's apparently slavery and "nazism".
posted on 6/6/12
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 13 hours, 7 minutes ago
I suspect that if I were born into a family with low intelligence" Blah blah blah.
What a load of nonsense.
In other countries, often the poorest people are the most clever in schools and if paying for school is achieved, they do very well in life. Here, why should they? What's the incentive? They consider themselves poor but then they look around themselves and people doing fine without a job, without an education. So why should they work hard in school?
Despite being told when I was younger that I had to knuckle down in school as it will affect the rest of my life, I never listened to such advice, however, if people thought that they would have to work anyhow, for their benefits, I'm sure there'd be a bigger push on getting an education and it doesn't matter how educated your family are! It's simple laziness and a sense of entitlement. It disgusts me to watch these people who don't want to work, rake in the cash, using their babies as cash machines and instead of being thankful, they have this massive sense of entitlement and demand more!
People were given the chance to earn a qualification, to add to their CV and to be in with a chance of a job after this scheme and equipment and a license paid for all for free and people say that is slavery? It's these people who are wrong with this country.
posted on 6/6/12
Fellaini's pirouette to perfection (U1308)
posted 15 minutes ago
How will my kind words change an ingrained social problem
---
To be honest, right here and now, not a lot. But an attitude shift would be a start
posted on 6/6/12
TOOR
I have explained the slavery comments 5 times now and you still say the same thing. Why would I expect you to understand any of the rest of what I have written?
posted on 6/6/12
comment by makar - Thread Killer (U4260)
posted 1 minute ago
TOOR
I have explained the slavery comments 5 times now and you still say the same thing. Why would I expect you to understand any of the rest of what I have written?
-----------------------------------------
You can explain it until the cows come home, it's still ridiculous.
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