I think chucking Zaha on the list was a hand grenade by the OP.
I wouldn't have included him on the overrated England players list........., not atm, anyway.
Being a future England starter or a future England starter also doesnt make you good. We are s hi te at football
^ Current England starter
Heck, half the players on the OP's list are constantly being berated by people on here as not being good enough to wear the England shirt.
There are far more people who moan when Carroll, Young, Lennon or even Rooney start than people who say they're top class.
The general vibe seems to be that Rooney is world class for Man Utd and nowhere near as good for the national side. Would you say that's overrated?
I said it was arguable. I naturally preferred Rio and Vidic and I always rated Puyol highly. But between 05-09 Terry was right up there.
--------------------------------
I'd put Rio, Vidic, Puyol, Carvalho, Cannavaro, Nesta all ahead of him. I'd even say for natural talent, Ledley King was a better defender than Terry but he obviously had problems with injury,
More bollox from Ninja.
Cleverley isn't an 'average' footballer. What a stupid thing to say.
The general vibe seems to be that Rooney is world class for Man Utd and nowhere near as good for the national side. Would you say that's overrated?
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A lot of thats down to the players at the club.
Perhaps not this season but in the few seasons before Rooney has been world class. The players around him know what his game his about and play to his strengths.
Then you play with the English national side who would make Messi look like Heskey.
More bollox from Ninja.
Cleverley isn't an 'average' footballer. What a stupid thing to say.
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That just epitomises this article. You are overrating him.
Nothing wrong with being average.
He hardly lights up the world does he?
He is an ok footballer, a good grafter, and an honest proffesional.
Doesnt make him class does it?
Yes you could argue Rooney is overrated. For my club I am happy with him, fantastic player, heartbeat of the team. World class ? I doubt now.
How would he do at Barca or real or Bayern or Juve I do wonder sometimes. But over the years the hype from the media when he plays for England is way over the top. Everything expected of him because he is the saviour, so yes overhyped.
Clerverley is a good player with the potential to be very good. He is not "average".
Oooooh ahhhhhh gary hoooooper, ooooooh ahhhhhh gary hoooooper
Im yet to be convinced.
Cleverley does what most Prem midfielders do.
Jo Allen does the same thing yet he isnt great.
Carrick is having to carry our midfield every game, quite often having to do a 2 man job, theres a man who is not overrated.
Very, very few people expect him to be the saviour of the nation. Everyone hopes that he can replicate his club form for England which would give us a chance but, like someone else said, that could all be down to the players he plays with.
It's been a long time since someone suggested he was the difference between an average England side and a trophy winning capable England side so I'd still contend that he isn't overhyped, at least not anymore. If you'd asked me around 2008 then I would have definitely said yes.
This is why I dont get Gerrard's criticism.
He is still a quality player. He can pass, moves the ball around, can defend, and is the heartbeat of the team.
In his day he was truely world class.
Ninja, please leave this utopian world where every player has to be awful, average or class. That's rubbish.
Cleverley is a good footballer. He's a first team member at Manchester United and is playing well. He isn't a world beater and never will be. Nevertheless, he's a good player and can easily be a vital cog in a great football team. He isn't 'average' He's playing at a very, very high level and improving.
This article actually proves to me that our own players are actually underrated. I often read that Gerrard wasn't a world class midfielder. Sorry to disappoint, but he really was. As was Scholes, as was Lampard.
The golden generation underachieved for a number of reasons. Mainly bad management. But they were quality footballers, no doubt about it. And as said above, the abuse most of the players on this list get is testament to the fact that they're really not overrated.
Hart and Rooney are pretty much the only two.
Very, very few people expect him to be the saviour of the nation. Everyone hopes that he can replicate his club form for England which would give us a chance but, like someone else said, that could all be down to the players he plays with.
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I would say on current form dont expect anything from Rooney, he has been poor for us all year.
As for England, its only going to get worse.
The level has dropped even further and the chances of winning anything are slim to none.
When you compare it to the other countries its quite astounding how further back we are dropping.
The problem for a lot of good English players is that at international level they have been mismanaged for years, played in the wrong positons, playing old fashioned 4-4-2.
Gerrard class at club level, made to play wide left and as DM for England when at his best he was playing as an AM for Liverpool.
Rooney - class at club level, poor at international level, made to play as an out and out striker when he is best when he has freedom.
Scholes - class at club level, made to play wide left for England.
Lampard - excellent as the AM in a midfield 3, not as good in an England midfield 2.
Its astounding that over the last 10 years the top clubs in the country have played a variation of 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 but for England we always stuck with 4-4-2.
Defenders have managed to keep their reputations at internatinal level, Rio, Cole and Terry have all done well.
As for the new bunch coming through, the only ones to hype them is the media. I think most reasonable football fans know where England are right now and the quality of the players we have now. Some good players with potential, nobody world class.
Ninja, please leave this utopian world where every player has to be awful, average or class. That's rubbish.
Cleverley is a good footballer. He's a first team member at Manchester United and is playing well. He isn't a world beater and never will be. Nevertheless, he's a good player and can easily be a vital cog in a great football team. He isn't 'average' He's playing at a very, very high level and improving.
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He is a cog fair enough, I dont doubt he is a good player. But good and average are the same thing, he does neccesary things, he wont be any better than he already is and is not going to light up the world.
Just like Fletcher was over rated the same thing is being done with Cleverley.
Everyone knows we struggle in midfield, lets take off the glasses and just admit Carrick aside the rest of our midfield isnt good enough.
Like I said I give credit where its due without being biased, but Cleverley is no Gerrard and never will be.
It's not about player quality for England any more, it's about how well we can play as a team. 10 years ago we had 3 truly world class players in Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard as our midfield yet they couldn't play together and so we never had a chance of winning anything, only getting as far as the quarter finals (or the group stages, as in Euro 2000, I think).
Fast forward to 2012 and we're still getting to the quarter finals despite many believing that there are even more nations better than us now and despite the consensus that our players still can't play well together.
Therefore, I believe that if we can get a team together that plays like a unit, we have a decent, if not great, chance of achieving success for once.
I want to see the lad succeed I really do.
But look at the facts, he's almost 24, he passes side to side and tries to move the ball forward. But he cant protect the defence, his shooting is poor, his long passing is poor.
How much better at this age can he get?
Thats what I mean by a good player, like a John O'Shea who should be celebrated, but not someone who will dominate the midfield.
No. Good and average aren't the same thing at all.
Cleverley won't get better? Fack me.
Furthermore, who said Cleverley will be as good as Gerrard? Nobody has and he never will. Gerrard was one of the best about and I don't think Cleverley has that potential. He's still a good footballer.
Cleverley actually suits the continental way of playing the game, as does Wilshere. Our younger players are by no means world beaters but they are all comfortable with the ball. If managed correctly then they can be greater than the sum of its parts and maybe we'll see some more exciting stuff.
I look at Anderson who is extremely frustrating. He is always injured.
Yet he can pass, he can dominate games, he can defend and protect the back 4, his shooting has improved, he can make incisive passes. Cleverley is not on his level. Why? Because he is English.
No. Good and average aren't the same thing at all.
Cleverley won't get better? Fack me.
Furthermore, who said Cleverley will be as good as Gerrard? Nobody has and he never will. Gerrard was one of the best about and I don't think Cleverley has that potential. He's still a good footballer.
Cleverley actually suits the continental way of playing the game, as does Wilshere. Our younger players are by no means world beaters but they are all comfortable with the ball. If managed correctly then they can be greater than the sum of its parts and maybe we'll see some more exciting stuff.
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Been hearing that for years.
You cant really compare Wilshere and Cleverley. Wilshere has it all, Cleverley doesnt.
Cleverley isnt going to wake up one day and have amazing vision or passing range.
Its as good as it will get, and one touch passing doesnt make you a complete midfielder.
Not to say he cant contribute, im sure he will do a decent job.
Maybe because Anderson is the better footballer? Nobody disputes that.
What I am disputing is your claims that Cleverley is average and that he won't improve. That there is rubbish.
OP is just being silly.
I mean Carroll? This is a bluecollar worker masquerading as a footballer.
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All English players overrated - discuss...
Page 3 of 5
posted on 31/12/12
I think chucking Zaha on the list was a hand grenade by the OP.
I wouldn't have included him on the overrated England players list........., not atm, anyway.
posted on 31/12/12
Being a future England starter or a future England starter also doesnt make you good. We are s hi te at football
posted on 31/12/12
^ Current England starter
posted on 31/12/12
Heck, half the players on the OP's list are constantly being berated by people on here as not being good enough to wear the England shirt.
There are far more people who moan when Carroll, Young, Lennon or even Rooney start than people who say they're top class.
The general vibe seems to be that Rooney is world class for Man Utd and nowhere near as good for the national side. Would you say that's overrated?
posted on 31/12/12
I said it was arguable. I naturally preferred Rio and Vidic and I always rated Puyol highly. But between 05-09 Terry was right up there.
--------------------------------
I'd put Rio, Vidic, Puyol, Carvalho, Cannavaro, Nesta all ahead of him. I'd even say for natural talent, Ledley King was a better defender than Terry but he obviously had problems with injury,
posted on 31/12/12
More bollox from Ninja.
Cleverley isn't an 'average' footballer. What a stupid thing to say.
posted on 31/12/12
The general vibe seems to be that Rooney is world class for Man Utd and nowhere near as good for the national side. Would you say that's overrated?
----
A lot of thats down to the players at the club.
Perhaps not this season but in the few seasons before Rooney has been world class. The players around him know what his game his about and play to his strengths.
Then you play with the English national side who would make Messi look like Heskey.
posted on 31/12/12
More bollox from Ninja.
Cleverley isn't an 'average' footballer. What a stupid thing to say.
------
That just epitomises this article. You are overrating him.
Nothing wrong with being average.
He hardly lights up the world does he?
He is an ok footballer, a good grafter, and an honest proffesional.
Doesnt make him class does it?
posted on 31/12/12
Yes you could argue Rooney is overrated. For my club I am happy with him, fantastic player, heartbeat of the team. World class ? I doubt now.
How would he do at Barca or real or Bayern or Juve I do wonder sometimes. But over the years the hype from the media when he plays for England is way over the top. Everything expected of him because he is the saviour, so yes overhyped.
posted on 31/12/12
Clerverley is a good player with the potential to be very good. He is not "average".
posted on 31/12/12
Oooooh ahhhhhh gary hoooooper, ooooooh ahhhhhh gary hoooooper
posted on 31/12/12
Im yet to be convinced.
Cleverley does what most Prem midfielders do.
Jo Allen does the same thing yet he isnt great.
Carrick is having to carry our midfield every game, quite often having to do a 2 man job, theres a man who is not overrated.
posted on 31/12/12
Very, very few people expect him to be the saviour of the nation. Everyone hopes that he can replicate his club form for England which would give us a chance but, like someone else said, that could all be down to the players he plays with.
It's been a long time since someone suggested he was the difference between an average England side and a trophy winning capable England side so I'd still contend that he isn't overhyped, at least not anymore. If you'd asked me around 2008 then I would have definitely said yes.
posted on 31/12/12
This is why I dont get Gerrard's criticism.
He is still a quality player. He can pass, moves the ball around, can defend, and is the heartbeat of the team.
In his day he was truely world class.
posted on 31/12/12
Ninja, please leave this utopian world where every player has to be awful, average or class. That's rubbish.
Cleverley is a good footballer. He's a first team member at Manchester United and is playing well. He isn't a world beater and never will be. Nevertheless, he's a good player and can easily be a vital cog in a great football team. He isn't 'average' He's playing at a very, very high level and improving.
This article actually proves to me that our own players are actually underrated. I often read that Gerrard wasn't a world class midfielder. Sorry to disappoint, but he really was. As was Scholes, as was Lampard.
The golden generation underachieved for a number of reasons. Mainly bad management. But they were quality footballers, no doubt about it. And as said above, the abuse most of the players on this list get is testament to the fact that they're really not overrated.
Hart and Rooney are pretty much the only two.
posted on 31/12/12
Very, very few people expect him to be the saviour of the nation. Everyone hopes that he can replicate his club form for England which would give us a chance but, like someone else said, that could all be down to the players he plays with.
-----
I would say on current form dont expect anything from Rooney, he has been poor for us all year.
As for England, its only going to get worse.
The level has dropped even further and the chances of winning anything are slim to none.
When you compare it to the other countries its quite astounding how further back we are dropping.
posted on 31/12/12
The problem for a lot of good English players is that at international level they have been mismanaged for years, played in the wrong positons, playing old fashioned 4-4-2.
Gerrard class at club level, made to play wide left and as DM for England when at his best he was playing as an AM for Liverpool.
Rooney - class at club level, poor at international level, made to play as an out and out striker when he is best when he has freedom.
Scholes - class at club level, made to play wide left for England.
Lampard - excellent as the AM in a midfield 3, not as good in an England midfield 2.
Its astounding that over the last 10 years the top clubs in the country have played a variation of 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 but for England we always stuck with 4-4-2.
Defenders have managed to keep their reputations at internatinal level, Rio, Cole and Terry have all done well.
As for the new bunch coming through, the only ones to hype them is the media. I think most reasonable football fans know where England are right now and the quality of the players we have now. Some good players with potential, nobody world class.
posted on 31/12/12
Ninja, please leave this utopian world where every player has to be awful, average or class. That's rubbish.
Cleverley is a good footballer. He's a first team member at Manchester United and is playing well. He isn't a world beater and never will be. Nevertheless, he's a good player and can easily be a vital cog in a great football team. He isn't 'average' He's playing at a very, very high level and improving.
------
He is a cog fair enough, I dont doubt he is a good player. But good and average are the same thing, he does neccesary things, he wont be any better than he already is and is not going to light up the world.
Just like Fletcher was over rated the same thing is being done with Cleverley.
Everyone knows we struggle in midfield, lets take off the glasses and just admit Carrick aside the rest of our midfield isnt good enough.
Like I said I give credit where its due without being biased, but Cleverley is no Gerrard and never will be.
posted on 31/12/12
It's not about player quality for England any more, it's about how well we can play as a team. 10 years ago we had 3 truly world class players in Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard as our midfield yet they couldn't play together and so we never had a chance of winning anything, only getting as far as the quarter finals (or the group stages, as in Euro 2000, I think).
Fast forward to 2012 and we're still getting to the quarter finals despite many believing that there are even more nations better than us now and despite the consensus that our players still can't play well together.
Therefore, I believe that if we can get a team together that plays like a unit, we have a decent, if not great, chance of achieving success for once.
posted on 31/12/12
I want to see the lad succeed I really do.
But look at the facts, he's almost 24, he passes side to side and tries to move the ball forward. But he cant protect the defence, his shooting is poor, his long passing is poor.
How much better at this age can he get?
Thats what I mean by a good player, like a John O'Shea who should be celebrated, but not someone who will dominate the midfield.
posted on 31/12/12
No. Good and average aren't the same thing at all.
Cleverley won't get better? Fack me.
Furthermore, who said Cleverley will be as good as Gerrard? Nobody has and he never will. Gerrard was one of the best about and I don't think Cleverley has that potential. He's still a good footballer.
Cleverley actually suits the continental way of playing the game, as does Wilshere. Our younger players are by no means world beaters but they are all comfortable with the ball. If managed correctly then they can be greater than the sum of its parts and maybe we'll see some more exciting stuff.
posted on 31/12/12
I look at Anderson who is extremely frustrating. He is always injured.
Yet he can pass, he can dominate games, he can defend and protect the back 4, his shooting has improved, he can make incisive passes. Cleverley is not on his level. Why? Because he is English.
posted on 31/12/12
No. Good and average aren't the same thing at all.
Cleverley won't get better? Fack me.
Furthermore, who said Cleverley will be as good as Gerrard? Nobody has and he never will. Gerrard was one of the best about and I don't think Cleverley has that potential. He's still a good footballer.
Cleverley actually suits the continental way of playing the game, as does Wilshere. Our younger players are by no means world beaters but they are all comfortable with the ball. If managed correctly then they can be greater than the sum of its parts and maybe we'll see some more exciting stuff.
------
Been hearing that for years.
You cant really compare Wilshere and Cleverley. Wilshere has it all, Cleverley doesnt.
Cleverley isnt going to wake up one day and have amazing vision or passing range.
Its as good as it will get, and one touch passing doesnt make you a complete midfielder.
Not to say he cant contribute, im sure he will do a decent job.
posted on 31/12/12
Maybe because Anderson is the better footballer? Nobody disputes that.
What I am disputing is your claims that Cleverley is average and that he won't improve. That there is rubbish.
posted on 31/12/12
OP is just being silly.
I mean Carroll? This is a bluecollar worker masquerading as a footballer.
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