Firstly, they're not 40 year olds so please stop that weird campaign of misinformation and remember that last season both those '40 year olds' played and we beat the vast majority of teams we came up against and deservedly so.

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Rob,

a year will make more of a difference when you're pushing 40 than it will if your 25, neville is a prime example of what a difference a year makes when you're knocking on.

also in regards to scholes and giggs, you mentioned in the past that playimg with those is part of the reason carrick looked poor at the begining of the season.

if you have two players playing, and that results in a 3rd player having to do more graft and cover more ground, then these players shouldnt be playing.

Giggs was pants before being hauled off at half time v Spurs too

MARK

On every thread this week you've commented regarding Kagawa displaying the exact lack of context I was talking about. Before injury he was playing decent enough. Not great, but not particularly poor either. He'd chipped in with goals and assists, showed some nice touches and generally looked dangerous. He then got crocked for two months.

On the basis that he's new to the league, has played in some strange teams and can't even speak our language, context has to be applied. In no way has he played anything like Valencia, Scholes or Giggs, instead, just looking like what he is: a new signing that's getting used to the league and showing glimpses of class amongst a few quiet games - Liverpool, Soton and West Ham.

He's a victim of some high expectation. Pretending he's been a hindrance to the team - Like Scholes, Giggs and Valencia - is a mark of idiocy.

We conceeded five goals you idiot. We did not play well.
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We only conceded 2 goals up until the 90th minute and were winning 3-2 at a tough ground to go and playing a strong Chelsea team while we had kids in defence.

One mistake at the back and we fell away in extra time.

You must be the only one who came away from that Chelsea game and felt we didn't play well in the 90 minutes.

My bad. I meant to say that we played well in the Chelsea game. Giggs and Anderson were a very good 2 man CM.
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They weren't, Anderson played as an AM/SS that night (and was fantastic in the role).

I still cannot look past the fact that we have a 39 and a 38 year old any where near our first team...

It's like trying to drive a Ferrari with a manual gearbox

Dunc

I agree to a point and would never choose to play Giggs or Scholes in CM when we have Carrick and Cleverley available but I just feel that when the oldies do play theryre nowhere near as bad as people make out.

Like I keep saying, had our wingers been in better form this season then a lot of the problems we've seen this season would have been avoided.

We are set up to play with 2 wingers. When those wingers don't perform then of course it's not gonna look as smooth as in past seasons.

How many players in the league could pass a ball like Giggs did to RVP like on Saturday?

39 or 19, Giggs still has something to offer the side.

Iwould give de gea an 8. Much improved in the air, made impotant saves and has only made a few errors. The kind of errors that get made every week by some keepers

We only conceded 2 goals up until the 90th minute

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So what. We did not play well, we conceeded five goals. Chelsea kept walking though our midfield.

Giggs was knackered.

So, your original stat of us only losing one game while Giggs started was incorrect, you back tracked on that as per usual.

We have lost three games where Giggs has started, we are constantly chasing games when Giggs and or Scholes start.

When we are continually having to come from behind to save the game, this really should be telling you that SAF is getting it wrong from the start.

Most of us can see it.

You must be the only one who came away from that Chelsea game and felt we didn't play well in the 90 minutes.

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The game lasted more than 90 minutes you cretin.

Judging a player on one pass...that's even less reputable than the validity of basing ones ability on a youtube clip with a crappy song added to it to make them seem even better.

It's quite obvious that United need to avoid situation's where either Giggs or Scholes are required to start in midfield.

comment by Red Rob : Gay Icon (U9808)
posted 2 minutes ago
How many players in the league could pass a ball like Giggs did to RVP like on Saturday?

.................

Most of them. Even I could play a ball like that in my playing days, it wasn't hard.

Sadly for me, like Giggs, I could only do it once every five or six games.

comment by AlwaysUnited - It's time for Cleverson! (U4063)
posted 1 minute ago
It's quite obvious that United need to avoid situation's where either Giggs or Scholes are required to start in midfield.

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Not to Rob. Despite the vast majority of United fans on here telling him this, he still can't see it.

Top marks to Chelsea, than can see this coming with Frank, and have decided to move him on.

comment by 1st Earl (U14927) posted 3 seconds ago

Judging a player on one pass...that's even less reputable than the validity of basing ones ability on a youtube clip with a crappy song added to it to make them seem even better.
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Have to agree

Rob asked who else could play a pass like the to RVP

I would say every player at the club is capable of kicking the ball 40 yards tbf

It's laughable that not only do you think that anyone could play the ball Giggs did but then you yourself say you could do it

If it's that easy then why did no-one do that until the 92nd minute?

And VC, we played very well in the Chelsea game and you're being your usual idiot self by using goals conceded by a young defence in Extra time to criticise the United performance in the first 90 minutes.

Which is a decent amount of time to judge a United reserve team against a strong Chelsea side.

Kagawa, i can only judge by what i see him doing in a united shirt, if he's playing well i will say so and mark him accordingly, i cannot comment on his time at dortmund as i never watch dortmund. At the minute he's playing poorly and should not be starting games, especially this weekends, cite new team, new language, new position all you want but for people to refer to him as a "gem" and suchlike while he's playing the way he is, is plain wrong.

If it's that easy then why did no-one do that until the 92nd minute

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If Giggs is so good at it, he would have done it before 92 mins had passed (pun intended) and would be able to do it every game, everytime he gets the ball...

MARK

Except you're not marking him accordingly. You've seen fans discuss the class and talent he clearly has, haven't seen enough of it, and are acting like he's played horrendously. That isn't the case. Before injury he was playing decently. Not brilliant, but not poor either.

How on earth is he playing poorly at the minute? He's started two games since injury. His first against West Brom he played quite well and the West Ham game was a bad performance. You're making it sound as if he is in a run of bad form when that isn't the case.

I rated his performance this season as a 6. He's looked decent enough but needs to do a lot more in the second half of the season. Can't be fairer than that.

1st earl

Great moments like that aren't on tap for football players are they?

You don't see RVP scoring stunning goals every game do you? He was anonymous against Galatasaray, did nothing but score a penalty against Liverpool, did nothing against Norwich etc.

Over the Christmas period, Giggs was impressed a lot of people on here and rightly so. He can come on and change a game better than nearly anyone in the squad. That is why he's still here.

He's not amazing when he starts games but isn't awful either. Sir Alex (greatest manager ever - even better than VC) understands that to keep everyone fresh and also avoid players kicking off when not playing you need your Giggs' and Scholes' to step in and out when asked and so far it's working a treat.

Of course you get your foolish people on here doubting the very thing staring in their face but Sir Alex knows what he's doing.

It's laughable that not only do you think that anyone could play the ball Giggs did but then you yourself say you could do it

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Why is it laughable? You have never played football, which shows by your lack of understanding of how it is played.

Back in my playing days I played balls like that quite often.

As said before, it was a one off from Giggs, He more often than not gives it away.

VC

Mate, i've played at a pretty decent level and I know that anyone can hit a 40 yard ball but not everyone can put it straight onto someone's foot like Giggs did on Saturday.

If you could play 40 yard balls onto people's feet often then I feel your burgeoning football career was cruelly cut short by whatever career path you chose.

And VC, we played very well in the Chelsea game

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We conceeded five goals.

You really have to stretch belief a fair bit, to say that is playing well.

We played well only for parts of the game.