All the escuses based on the red card. I do not buy it. You adjust, Add pace so that breakaways are possible, you just do not sit on your asse hoping that somehow the defence will hold up.
When you come to a game with the wrong mentality, whatever happens as a result is your fault. We did not come to win the game that day, we came to stifle what we assumed was a good real team (they were not). It is a small team mentality, so when you get a small team result, I am not going to blame the ref. Its all on fergie, for starting so conservatively at home, and staying pat after the red card. Lazy management for me.
its a very good madrid side, its not a patch on their teams of the past, the midfield is decidedly average, but they have Ronaldo who although he was utterly abysmal for 179 minutes and 30 seconds of the tie the 2 goals he scored made the difference
It is a small team mentality, so when you get a small team result, I am not going to blame the ref. Its all on fergie, for starting so conservatively at home, and staying pat after the red card. Lazy management for me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh just fucckk off you dumb piece of shitt
Rob
It's not negative it's just a case of giving a balanced view. Like I said we missed some great chances but so too did Real, had De Gea not been in top form in the first leg we could have lost, our misses in the first leg were down to poor finishing, that was our fault. If you read what I said I said we would probably have been favourites had the red card not been given, hardly negative. There were many key moments in both legs that could have gone either way, the biggest moment was the wrongful red card of Nani but how Jose reacted ultimately won them the tie and he and Real deserve credit for that.
"Oh just fucckk off you dumb piece of shitt"
LOL
Oh just fucckk off you dumb piece of shitt
*********************************
Wow... well put argument. I can see all the nuances.
I think Redastomatoes was slightly harsh on Ferguson but in the main I agree. If a team of our stature has to rely on stifling opponents (apart from Barca) then there's something wrong. And for me this all goes back to how humiliated Ferguson was in the 2 CL finals where afterwards he became far too cautious and scared to take games to opponents.
Wow... well put argument. I can see all the nuances.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're too dumb to realise that Real Madrid were killing sides that attacked them up until that United game and that to sit back and frustrate them was the best course of action (and was working perfectly until the sending off) then there's no hope for you.
Do tactics not exist in your dojo? I guarantee if you were in charge of a team in Europe you'd have a worse managerial record than Alan Shearer.
Yes, Dortmund attacked them and won but
1) They had the likes of Reus, Gotze and Gundogan in their side and
2) They very nearly got knocked out in the second leg with their attacking yet naive style.
2) They very nearly got knocked out in the second leg with their attacking yet naive style.
================================================
actually the only time dortmund looked in danger was when they sat back in the last 15 minutes, in the second half in particular in madrid dortmund outclassed madrid and should have scored at least 2 goals
"Oh just fucckk off you dumb piece of shitt"
............................
And a few people knock my debating skills.
That comment smacks of a bed wetter.
And for me this all goes back to how humiliated Ferguson was in the 2 CL finals where afterwards he became far too cautious and scared to take games to opponents.
__________________
i agree to a point but I think he was already cautious way before that. On the road to both finals we seemed to rely excessively on Ronaldo to bag a goal while the team was set out to stifle the opposition, especially away from home.
It's not negative it's just a case of giving a balanced view. Like I said we missed some great chances but so too did Real, had De Gea not been in top form in the first leg we could have lost, our misses in the first leg were down to poor finishing, that was our fault. If you read what I said I said we would probably have been favourites had the red card not been given, hardly negative. There were many key moments in both legs that could have gone either way, the biggest moment was the wrongful red card of Nani but how Jose reacted ultimately won them the tie and he and Real deserve credit for that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to sound argumentative ( ) but you can't say with any certainty that a team with 10 men would have seen the game out when up against the likes of Ronaldo, Kaka, Ozil, Modric and Higuain.
We'll never know. But to say that Sir Alex failed to act and that is the reason we're out is just guesswork. I accept that maybe you're right but in no way is it a definite reason we went out.
It could just be the logical thing where a team on top suffers a crazy sending off that affects their concentration and instantly 2 sucker punch goals go in (against a team with some genuinely brilliant talents).
actually the only time dortmund looked in danger was when they sat back in the last 15 minutes, in the second half in particular in madrid dortmund outclassed madrid and should have scored at least 2 goals
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Madrid could have scored 5 goals in that game to be fair.
yes in the last 15 minutes, go and watch the game again, bar the opening 15 minutes and the last 15 minutes, dortmund could not have been in MORE control of that game
Rob has a point but I think the argument extends to saying that fergie lost his concentration as well. He would have been better off issuing instructions, telling his players not to lose focus, etc rather than arguing with officials (which has never achieved anything).
1) So what, we too have some very good players. I think what you have to ask yourself is why do Dortmund play such a more hi tempo, free flowing game than us when their squad cost a fraction of the price of ours, who is responsible for that? Ferguson chooses what players to buy, what systems to use and how to play, is it really acceptable for a team the size of United to just site back?
2) They qualified fair and square and were easily the better side over 2 legs. Real had nothing to lose and went for it, the only point they really came close to having to do that was when we scored. Dortmund's tactics worked and they completely and utterly destroyed Real in the first leg, ours seemed to be working but it was hardly convincing stuff.
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 12 minutes ago
Rob has a point but I think the argument extends to saying that fergie lost his concentration as well. He would have been better off issuing instructions, telling his players not to lose focus, etc rather than arguing with officials (which has never achieved anything).
...............
Exactly. And that is what really annoyed me. A man with SAF's experience should have known better.
One of the first things I learnt as a youngster, is how pointless it is to argue with officials.
"Madrid could have scored 5 goals in that game to be fair."
They also could have scored 5 against us in the first leg. Real had 11 more shots and 7 more on target against us than they did in their home game against Dortmund.
ours seemed to be working but it was hardly convincing stuff.
.............................
I agree with this.
Yes, Dortmund attacked them and won but
1) They had the likes of Reus, Gotze and Gundogan in their side and
2) They very nearly got knocked out in the second leg with their attacking yet naive style.
*************************************
I do not understand you. So our quality is not good enough to beat them, is that it? Yet you have been mentioning rvp and welbecks chances. Whenever we attacked them, they were vulnerable. We had players good enough to do so. So why not do what dortmund did? Have a good go and know you went into the game giving it your best? I am never going to buy a tactical decision that leads to a complete opposite of what your team is. If dortmund went into the game as conservative as we did, they too would have lost their tie, its simple.
By the way our conservative style got us knocked out at the first hurdle, dortmund played their style and rode their luck to get to their final.
People do not understand the reason why the 99 campaign is so fondly remembered is because we played our own way. That is sweeter than playing absolutely uninspired football and winning piles of titles.
People do not understand the reason why the 99 campaign is so fondly remembered is because we played our own way. That is sweeter than playing absolutely uninspired football and winning piles of titles.
_____________________
A-frakking-men to that.
They should have that on a signpost and put it in the dressing room!
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 2 minutes ago
People do not understand the reason why the 99 campaign is so fondly remembered is because we played our own way. That is sweeter than playing absolutely uninspired football and winning piles of titles.
_____________________
A-frakking-men to that.
They should have that on a signpost and put it in the dressing room!
..............
No arguments from me either.
some fans IMO put too much stock in simply winning, i can honestly say this season that i barely enjoyed watching united tbh, if i had been a season ticket holder id have actually been a little dissapointed, as i will be one next season i do hope the standard of football improves
True, is it really too much to expect one of the biggest clubs in the world to play entertaining football as well as challenging for trophies?
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Just plucked up the courage
Page 2 of 5
posted on 26/6/13
All the escuses based on the red card. I do not buy it. You adjust, Add pace so that breakaways are possible, you just do not sit on your asse hoping that somehow the defence will hold up.
When you come to a game with the wrong mentality, whatever happens as a result is your fault. We did not come to win the game that day, we came to stifle what we assumed was a good real team (they were not). It is a small team mentality, so when you get a small team result, I am not going to blame the ref. Its all on fergie, for starting so conservatively at home, and staying pat after the red card. Lazy management for me.
posted on 26/6/13
its a very good madrid side, its not a patch on their teams of the past, the midfield is decidedly average, but they have Ronaldo who although he was utterly abysmal for 179 minutes and 30 seconds of the tie the 2 goals he scored made the difference
posted on 26/6/13
It is a small team mentality, so when you get a small team result, I am not going to blame the ref. Its all on fergie, for starting so conservatively at home, and staying pat after the red card. Lazy management for me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh just fucckk off you dumb piece of shitt
posted on 26/6/13
Rob
It's not negative it's just a case of giving a balanced view. Like I said we missed some great chances but so too did Real, had De Gea not been in top form in the first leg we could have lost, our misses in the first leg were down to poor finishing, that was our fault. If you read what I said I said we would probably have been favourites had the red card not been given, hardly negative. There were many key moments in both legs that could have gone either way, the biggest moment was the wrongful red card of Nani but how Jose reacted ultimately won them the tie and he and Real deserve credit for that.
posted on 26/6/13
"Oh just fucckk off you dumb piece of shitt"
LOL
posted on 26/6/13
Oh just fucckk off you dumb piece of shitt
*********************************
Wow... well put argument. I can see all the nuances.
posted on 26/6/13
I think Redastomatoes was slightly harsh on Ferguson but in the main I agree. If a team of our stature has to rely on stifling opponents (apart from Barca) then there's something wrong. And for me this all goes back to how humiliated Ferguson was in the 2 CL finals where afterwards he became far too cautious and scared to take games to opponents.
posted on 26/6/13
Wow... well put argument. I can see all the nuances.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're too dumb to realise that Real Madrid were killing sides that attacked them up until that United game and that to sit back and frustrate them was the best course of action (and was working perfectly until the sending off) then there's no hope for you.
Do tactics not exist in your dojo? I guarantee if you were in charge of a team in Europe you'd have a worse managerial record than Alan Shearer.
Yes, Dortmund attacked them and won but
1) They had the likes of Reus, Gotze and Gundogan in their side and
2) They very nearly got knocked out in the second leg with their attacking yet naive style.
posted on 26/6/13
2) They very nearly got knocked out in the second leg with their attacking yet naive style.
================================================
actually the only time dortmund looked in danger was when they sat back in the last 15 minutes, in the second half in particular in madrid dortmund outclassed madrid and should have scored at least 2 goals
posted on 26/6/13
"Oh just fucckk off you dumb piece of shitt"
............................
And a few people knock my debating skills.
That comment smacks of a bed wetter.
posted on 26/6/13
And for me this all goes back to how humiliated Ferguson was in the 2 CL finals where afterwards he became far too cautious and scared to take games to opponents.
__________________
i agree to a point but I think he was already cautious way before that. On the road to both finals we seemed to rely excessively on Ronaldo to bag a goal while the team was set out to stifle the opposition, especially away from home.
posted on 26/6/13
It's not negative it's just a case of giving a balanced view. Like I said we missed some great chances but so too did Real, had De Gea not been in top form in the first leg we could have lost, our misses in the first leg were down to poor finishing, that was our fault. If you read what I said I said we would probably have been favourites had the red card not been given, hardly negative. There were many key moments in both legs that could have gone either way, the biggest moment was the wrongful red card of Nani but how Jose reacted ultimately won them the tie and he and Real deserve credit for that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to sound argumentative ( ) but you can't say with any certainty that a team with 10 men would have seen the game out when up against the likes of Ronaldo, Kaka, Ozil, Modric and Higuain.
We'll never know. But to say that Sir Alex failed to act and that is the reason we're out is just guesswork. I accept that maybe you're right but in no way is it a definite reason we went out.
It could just be the logical thing where a team on top suffers a crazy sending off that affects their concentration and instantly 2 sucker punch goals go in (against a team with some genuinely brilliant talents).
posted on 26/6/13
actually the only time dortmund looked in danger was when they sat back in the last 15 minutes, in the second half in particular in madrid dortmund outclassed madrid and should have scored at least 2 goals
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Madrid could have scored 5 goals in that game to be fair.
posted on 26/6/13
yes in the last 15 minutes, go and watch the game again, bar the opening 15 minutes and the last 15 minutes, dortmund could not have been in MORE control of that game
posted on 26/6/13
Rob has a point but I think the argument extends to saying that fergie lost his concentration as well. He would have been better off issuing instructions, telling his players not to lose focus, etc rather than arguing with officials (which has never achieved anything).
posted on 26/6/13
1) So what, we too have some very good players. I think what you have to ask yourself is why do Dortmund play such a more hi tempo, free flowing game than us when their squad cost a fraction of the price of ours, who is responsible for that? Ferguson chooses what players to buy, what systems to use and how to play, is it really acceptable for a team the size of United to just site back?
2) They qualified fair and square and were easily the better side over 2 legs. Real had nothing to lose and went for it, the only point they really came close to having to do that was when we scored. Dortmund's tactics worked and they completely and utterly destroyed Real in the first leg, ours seemed to be working but it was hardly convincing stuff.
posted on 26/6/13
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 12 minutes ago
Rob has a point but I think the argument extends to saying that fergie lost his concentration as well. He would have been better off issuing instructions, telling his players not to lose focus, etc rather than arguing with officials (which has never achieved anything).
...............
Exactly. And that is what really annoyed me. A man with SAF's experience should have known better.
One of the first things I learnt as a youngster, is how pointless it is to argue with officials.
posted on 26/6/13
"Madrid could have scored 5 goals in that game to be fair."
They also could have scored 5 against us in the first leg. Real had 11 more shots and 7 more on target against us than they did in their home game against Dortmund.
posted on 26/6/13
ours seemed to be working but it was hardly convincing stuff.
.............................
I agree with this.
posted on 26/6/13
Yes, Dortmund attacked them and won but
1) They had the likes of Reus, Gotze and Gundogan in their side and
2) They very nearly got knocked out in the second leg with their attacking yet naive style.
*************************************
I do not understand you. So our quality is not good enough to beat them, is that it? Yet you have been mentioning rvp and welbecks chances. Whenever we attacked them, they were vulnerable. We had players good enough to do so. So why not do what dortmund did? Have a good go and know you went into the game giving it your best? I am never going to buy a tactical decision that leads to a complete opposite of what your team is. If dortmund went into the game as conservative as we did, they too would have lost their tie, its simple.
By the way our conservative style got us knocked out at the first hurdle, dortmund played their style and rode their luck to get to their final.
People do not understand the reason why the 99 campaign is so fondly remembered is because we played our own way. That is sweeter than playing absolutely uninspired football and winning piles of titles.
posted on 26/6/13
People do not understand the reason why the 99 campaign is so fondly remembered is because we played our own way. That is sweeter than playing absolutely uninspired football and winning piles of titles.
_____________________
A-frakking-men to that.
They should have that on a signpost and put it in the dressing room!
posted on 26/6/13
redas
posted on 26/6/13
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 2 minutes ago
People do not understand the reason why the 99 campaign is so fondly remembered is because we played our own way. That is sweeter than playing absolutely uninspired football and winning piles of titles.
_____________________
A-frakking-men to that.
They should have that on a signpost and put it in the dressing room!
..............
No arguments from me either.
posted on 26/6/13
some fans IMO put too much stock in simply winning, i can honestly say this season that i barely enjoyed watching united tbh, if i had been a season ticket holder id have actually been a little dissapointed, as i will be one next season i do hope the standard of football improves
posted on 26/6/13
True, is it really too much to expect one of the biggest clubs in the world to play entertaining football as well as challenging for trophies?
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