Well, before you come out with something like that I would like to see whether he can be prove to be the best player in the prem. When I say best player, i'm not defining it as 'most talent', i'm defining it more down to popular opinion.

For example, last season, the top five players by public opinion would probably look like this:

RVP/Bale/Suarez/Mata/Cazorla

In no particular order.

I would very much like to see whether Ozil can produce his top game for Arsenal over the whole season.

Otherwise he's not the best player in the premier league. As while he is in the premier league he gets worse than his maximum, which you are claiming > all prem players, which is in itself contentious, highly contentious. Though I would say he certainly deserves consideration given his talent and pedigree, but you have jumped the gun massively IMO.

I get what Dubbed is saying. He's basing Ozil's ability on his career so far, what's wrong with that? If Messi was to sign for someone in the prem, would we not be able to say he's the best because he hadn't played a game yet?

And before anyone says it, no I'm not comparing Ozil to Messi

Ozil was playing with

Ronaldo, Higuain, Benzema, Di Maria, Khaderia, Alonso, Modric at Real

Now he's playing with Walcott, Giroud, Ramsey, Flamini, Arteta, Santi, Podolski,

Slight difference in class there on all fronts

Let's not make this personal Dubbed, that is after all, the mark of a loser

Exactly MrTweedy.
If Iniesta came now to the Prem he'd be the best in the Prem.
Ozil's the second best playmaker after him, so it's not really outrageous to suggest him being the best.

MrT that makes the claim that he is the best player in the prem because of his career history + his status. I can't be having that.

I hear you. Don't think what you're saying is that hard to understand.

"MrT that makes the claim that he is the best player in the prem because of his career history + his status. I can't be having that."

No. I made that claim cause he has the most ability out of all the players.
No stats, or history involved.

Bit different with Messi as he's head and shoulders above anyone in the prem. Ozil isn't head and shoulders above anyone in the prem.

So how he applies himself in the league is what is important. If he's not play as good as other players in this league then he's not the best is he?

That's not to say he won't. Just that it's a contentious debate. He's clearly one of the best, however. Whether he is the best, well he has to prove it on the pitch.

Dubbed I disagree with that comment so here we are. Conversation over.

Also depends on who you play with and who's around you, Walcott could have scored a few off Ozil passes on Sat,

Then I'd have been here eating my words because he snapped up 3 assists on his first game

I think the "he has do something in the Prem" argument always makes me laugh.
The same guys were saying the exact same thing with Cazorla last year.
They don't respect a player until he plays in the Prem which is arrogant and downright stupid.

Thudd, Walcott should have scored but I wasn't in the slightest bit shocked when he didn't

plus there is no way Arsenal are anywhere near as dominant in the PL as Real are in La Liga

One caveat - you've created a barometer which involves only your judgement of a players talent, which might be okay if it didn't produce such varied, dare I say, wild, results. You're happy to eschew stats and the past (probably only when it suits though)

Dubbed, Bale needs to prove himself in La Liga. Ozil needs to prove himself in the prem.

Nothing arrogant about that. It's the leagues they play in.

I'm gna put my neck out on the line here and say Ozil may or may not be the PL's best player by the end of the season. Depends on if he performs well or badly to be honest.

So what will Ozil have to do to prove he's one of the best in the league?

I'm gna put my neck out on the line here and say Ozil may or may not be the PL's best player by the end of the season. Depends on if he performs well or badly to be honest.

"One caveat - you've created a barometer which involves only your judgement of a players talent, which might be okay if it didn't produce such varied, dare I say, wild, results. You're happy to eschew stats and the past (probably only when it suits though)"

Not really. I could just as easily drag stats into this discussion and strengthen my argument further. Ozil has out of this world stats.
So that's another point of yours that failed.

I agree with Dubbed. Just because Shevchenko flopped, doesn't make his career a complete failure

don't see why a player should have to be given a season before he can be called one of the best in the league. His transfer was widely regarded as one of the biggest and most exciting for years.

MrT he would have to play as well or better than the best playmakers in the league for over half of the season. Hardly impossible. He might have cemented himself as the league's best 10 by february or so, providing he comfortably outperforms players like Mata/Oscar, Nasri, Eriksen, Rooney/Kagawa.

It could well be done.

"Nothing arrogant about that. It's the leagues they play in."

My point is that we've seen what these players are capable of.
Why should one ignore that when talking about them, and judge them on a clean slate?